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haele

(15,494 posts)
72. Well, your father worked in an era where a minimum wage job was usually a teen's job.
Fri Mar 6, 2015, 03:33 PM
Mar 2015

And you paid an employee a sufficient percentage of the revenue that the employee's work got the company. There was also not a significant difference between executive pay and worker's pay.
And there were also a lot of jobs available that paid reasonable wages - when a casher or a service station attendant could afford to rent a small apartment and have regular meals, and occasionally go out for entertainment on their pay.
Minimum wage can't do that now. And you've got on average 100 people competing for every job, with people who are looking for work constantly putting out resumes that are rejected. It's an employer's "market", so there's no incentive to actually set wages high enough to attract good workers - far easier to pay low wages to people who are so desperate for work, they'll take anything relatively stable and pocket the profits. I've watched wages for even skilled labor and professionals plummet when compared to the cost of living over the past 20 years while corporate profits and productivity increased. It's not how good you work, or if you're settling for too little to start on, it's that employers can always get someone who will work for less if they wait long enough, so if you want a job, you take what you can get and hope you can get a raise as you move up the ladder.
Here's example from my city:
In 1996, a full time Cashier at Safeway (union) could make on average $10 an hour with benefits, Journeymen Welders started at $13 an hour, and a C++ certified IT tech started at $15 an hour. Certified Engineers started at around $80K a year, and would generally make $120K a year by the time they had 5 years of experience in the field. About half worked "independent contract/consulting", the rest were on staff with their companies. Full-time Public School Teachers started at $32K a year, and at least half the supplies could be provided by the school district.
Rent on a 1 bedroom apartment could be found for $500 a month, gas was $1.50 a gallon, and $20 of groceries could last the average person one week, and you could still hit the 7-11 for a cup of coffee and a doughnut every morning on your to work.
Average competition for these positions - 3 to 1. There were an average of three applications for each job.

Today, a full-time Cashier at Albertsons (union) makes on average $10.75 an hour with reduced benefits, Journeymen Welders start at $12 an hour, and C++ certified IT techs still start at $15 an hour. Certified Engineers start at around $60K a year, and generally make around $100K by the time they have 5 years experience, unless they get a patent approved or some other additional income. Staff positions for engineers are declining in numbers; most are now consultants or are working under some sort of contract; over the past 20 years, at least 25% of engineering staff positions have been replaced either by temps/consultants, H1Bs or technological advances, further squeezing the number of positions available to compete for. Full-Time Teachers start around $42K a year, but they now have to provide most of their own supplies for the entire year for their classes, costing them on average up to $1000 every class they teach.
Rent on a 1 bedroom apartment can be found for around $1000, gas is averaging $3.45 a gallon, and $50 of groceries could last the average person one week.
Average competition for these position - anywhere from 10 to 30 to 1. After HR gets through the applications, there are still between ten to thirty applicants for each job.

So it is getting more and more difficult to find and keep work if you don't already have money to fall back on or if you aren't so specialized that your industry can't do without you.

There's two things most laymen or internet "experts" who haven't studied macro-economics don't seem to take into account when they talk about:

Less workers needed = lower wages for new employees.

Higher income gap between worker and employer indicates that there's a lot of money that isn't being circulated enough and the system economy is seriously out of balance. Capitalism can't be sustained in this type of system, economy will crash and the actors in that economy revert to a more feudal/strongman system until a mercantile class can be resurrected and a balance of trade between capital functions (wealth production and compensation of labor) can be restored.

Look, as for the argument that "a good employee will get recognized and promoted" - in retail, the only way to get a raise is to go into management or to belong to a union that will put in a contract when an employee is eligible for a raise, what they have to do to become eligible and protect the right for to ask for a raise. I've known too many young retail workers get fired soon after just asking when they came up for their review.

As my father always said, there's only so many management jobs and executive jobs around; everyone else has to work and depend on how many beans the bean-counters are willing to dispense.

My father also supported a family of four and put himself through a full schedule at U.C. Berkley working as a gas station attendant and part-time mechanic's helper on weekends and evenings in the 1960's, while my mom worked as a part-time minimum wage help at a library. I think between them, they made around $6000 to $7000 back in 1965. and from what I remember, we didn't notice it at all - still were able keep a decent late model car, go down to LA once a year on a holiday "Grandparents" visit, go camping in Yosemite for two weeks in the summer, and we never worried about food or clothes, still went out and saw movies and concerts, and ate out once in a while. When I broke my arm badly (a finger also nearly got torn off) that summer, it didn't cost an arm and a leg to fix me up as my Mom occasionally reminds me when we bitch about medical costs now-days.
Granted, there was subsidized student family housing (an old Korean-era army barracks facility that were turned into apartments) available until my parents re-grouped the financial resources spent moving to Berkley from L.A., my broken arm and my brother's birth. After Mom got a promotion to full-time (after my brother was born), we could move into a nice rental house with a backyard, and we did live frugally - shopping at bargain and thrift stores, and doing home crafting (like sewing, basic carpentry, or canning) to fix up furnishing; but we were not "poor".
My parents worked hard and one thing I remember about the 1960's, 1970's and 1980's -
1) there always seemed to be jobs that paid at least a living wage available if needed, and my parents always seemed to be able to afford to move to find better jobs (no thanks to then-Gov. Reagan, who slashed the state education budget...) to get to the position they could eventually buy a nice house, and
2) my parents were always compensated according to how much value they gave their employers; they often got raises and promotions that allowed us to move into better housing and better neighborhoods. We did pretty well through the whole time I was growing up.

I don't see that happening now-a-days, and if you do, where is it so that most of us can move there?

Haele



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0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Unbelieveable. They think people can live off this? SummerSnow Mar 2015 #1
$8.75 is not enough to earn per hour SickOfTheOnePct Mar 2015 #2
It's about a 30 hour week, actually. Jackpine Radical Mar 2015 #4
Understand and agree SickOfTheOnePct Mar 2015 #5
wanna tell us what the amount would be if it WAS full time? Skittles Mar 2015 #7
About $18,000 SickOfTheOnePct Mar 2015 #9
But you don't get to make the rules. The government does and 36 hours is full time. Rex Mar 2015 #12
Where does the government mandate that 36 hours per week is full time? SickOfTheOnePct Mar 2015 #18
No goverment mandate, but many employers do call 36 hours a week full time. maddiemom Mar 2015 #73
The paystub indicates just over 30 hours per week (gross/8.75/52) so not kelly1mm Mar 2015 #29
Actually it's 36 hours a week sweetloukillbot Mar 2015 #33
The OP says he made $13,811.18 last year. $13,811.18 divided by $8.75 is kelly1mm Mar 2015 #39
Doesn't say he was employed for 52 weeks though. sweetloukillbot Mar 2015 #54
do you work 52 weeks a year? mopinko Mar 2015 #57
I am retired but previous to that I was self employed, so no paid vacation or other paid leave. kelly1mm Mar 2015 #58
FICA? NT Orangepeel Mar 2015 #68
Gross is before deductions like FICA, Fed/State income tax ect. nt kelly1mm Mar 2015 #77
$17,500 Man from Pickens Mar 2015 #51
at the federal minimum of $7.25, it would be $15,080. at $8.75 it would be $18,200. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #56
36 hours a week is considered full time, I am sorry if this shocks you that Rex Mar 2015 #11
No, 36 hours per week is not considered full time SickOfTheOnePct Mar 2015 #13
Sorry but 36 hours a week is considered fulltime go look it up if you don't believe me. Rex Mar 2015 #15
OK SickOfTheOnePct Mar 2015 #19
In terms of benefits per the ACA full-time is 30 hours a week or more Cal Carpenter Mar 2015 #26
Most larger companies use the 36 hour plateau as Full Time RockaFowler Mar 2015 #25
Understand SickOfTheOnePct Mar 2015 #27
And it would be interesting to hear TBF Mar 2015 #35
Mostly because of the claim in the OP SickOfTheOnePct Mar 2015 #37
The paystub indicates just over 30 hours per week though (gross/8.75/52 = 30.3 hours) kelly1mm Mar 2015 #31
anything over 30 hours per week indivisibleman Mar 2015 #40
Walmart uses the same trick. That way they don't benefits or enough to live on, and as a result sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #17
Oh...I bet it is about as full time as it gets on a regular basis unless salaried TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #6
add in mercuryblues Mar 2015 #20
True, very unlikely they could do the 60 if they wanted. TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #50
Food stamp pay for F/T food service workers. McDonald's is modern slavery. leveymg Mar 2015 #3
Yup, and some folks are even doing worse than that. TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #16
$11,850... malokvale77 Mar 2015 #48
That is crazy, by the time you pay attention it has to be about gone. TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #49
I went to a SS seminar a few weeks ago CrispyQ Mar 2015 #63
That's gross too, not net. nt Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2015 #8
Asshole manager where my housemate works told him that his $9.75/hr was more than minimum wage. hobbit709 Mar 2015 #10
Yeah and you know who McLoves it? The CEOs and Execs. Rex Mar 2015 #14
How many seconds... 3catwoman3 Mar 2015 #21
0.4 Roland99 Mar 2015 #22
Nice work if you... 3catwoman3 Mar 2015 #46
$1.40 more an hour than Texas! Dustlawyer Mar 2015 #23
that's about what I will make this year hfojvt Mar 2015 #24
That sucks and that worker is one of millions of LibDemAlways Mar 2015 #28
More than I made as a teacher Telcontar Mar 2015 #30
That's about what my wife brings home... freebrew Mar 2015 #32
Happiness is the asshole with all of the loot tomsaiditagain Mar 2015 #34
People on this kind of pay are told EVERYONE makes this kind of money. Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2015 #36
The sad part is that more and more will as unions TBF Mar 2015 #41
There's a whole generation that's rediscovering the concept of unions.... Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2015 #55
there are more billionaires now than ever, so i'm not sure why you focus on kochs and waltons. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #80
I focus on the Kochs because they influence politics TBF Mar 2015 #85
Saying that the number of billionaires is growing (while the masses grow poorer) is no defense ND-Dem Mar 2015 #90
I have no problem talking about the billionaires on either side - TBF Mar 2015 #91
I make $12 / hr. I am told that on a regular basis. Initech Mar 2015 #43
I suppose 13 would be unlucky. Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2015 #53
yes. they're also told "you can't get a full-time job anymore" and "you can't get a job ND-Dem Mar 2015 #79
There's a general hostility from management ever since RMoney and his 47% crack.... Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2015 #82
It's criminal, Steve TBF Mar 2015 #38
Holy shit, and that's before taxes are taken out. Initech Mar 2015 #42
It is my humble oponion e-cigdub Mar 2015 #44
Too bad they don't show those pay card fees associated with their wages d_legendary1 Mar 2015 #45
I make less than that in a year. Binkie The Clown Mar 2015 #47
Full time at minimum wage madamesilverspurs Mar 2015 #52
You deserve a break today! Fumesucker Mar 2015 #59
+1 johnnyreb Mar 2015 #60
So get up and walk away.... daleanime Mar 2015 #61
And this is surprise to anyone? Alkene Mar 2015 #62
This is why a former waitress I would never EVER want the tip system to go away LynneSin Mar 2015 #64
Extend the concept to everyone you do business with ... Fumesucker Mar 2015 #66
My daughter is in high school philosslayer Mar 2015 #71
What about if the minimum wage was more reasonable? Violet_Crumble Mar 2015 #83
It would have to go very high LynneSin Mar 2015 #86
The poor CEO,how does he manage father founding Mar 2015 #65
Republicans and corporatist Democrats believe they make too much. Enthusiast Mar 2015 #67
So ... let me float a different viewpoint NashuaDW Mar 2015 #69
Well, your father worked in an era where a minimum wage job was usually a teen's job. haele Mar 2015 #72
"that is all his labor/skills are worth. " Scootaloo Mar 2015 #74
My first job was at McDonalds BubbaFett Mar 2015 #70
Because those are the jobs available. Scootaloo Mar 2015 #75
Hard work is not an indicator of success BubbaFett Mar 2015 #76
No, I'm not itching for a fight Scootaloo Mar 2015 #84
Still trying to figure out why you have a need to respond like a jerk BubbaFett Mar 2015 #87
Thanks. Always a pleasure, you know Scootaloo Mar 2015 #89
but scott walker said $7.50/hr is a living wage (although, I am not sure how a cockroach niyad Mar 2015 #78
that particular cockroach makes a good deal more than $7.50/hr, too. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #81
That may be livable if all the following... Shoulders of Giants Mar 2015 #88
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