General Discussion

cui bono

(19,926 posts)

277. It's hard for some people to stay focused on ideals and principles I guess.

Mon Mar 9, 2015, 07:49 PM

Mar 2015

They are playing into the team mentality where no matter what "our" captain does, it's right, and no matter what the other team's captain/players do or believe, it's wrong. It's so simple for them, but the only way it can be that simple is with simple thinking. No room for nuance. Also, I don't know if it was like this with Clinton, but with Obama it really seems that way too many people just defend him blindly and feed us the sentiment of the Bush line, "you're either for us or against us". Oops, they are doing what they don't like us to do.

And funnily enough they don't even see they are doing the same thing in agreeing with Republicans in the case of the ACA, but they justify it because Obama got it passed. And now Obama gets a pass even though he passed a Republican health care plan. If you or I had said we should pass that plan we would have been labeled with some sort of insulting conservative name.

Even the NSA warrantless wiretapping. They claim it's fine because it's legal now. Okay, but it's only legal because Obama pushed for it to be legal. When BushCo did it no one liked it.

Hypocrisy. That's what it is. And it comes from a lack of critical thinking and subscribing to politics of personality over politics of substantive policy. And they brought the team mentality into the Dem Party and are simply being divisive. It really makes you wonder why they are doing it since it is only furthering the shift to the right. Is it on purpose?

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In case you were wondering, I AM NOT A FREEPER. [View all] JDPriestly Mar 2015 OP

Nice rant malaise Mar 2015 #1

I just got called a right winger and I am a radical roguevalley Mar 2015 #34

If you think it was me then you completely misunderstood my post, completely NoJusticeNoPeace Mar 2015 #39

given that you included the last part in your roguevalley Mar 2015 #43

Ha! Join the club, it's a big one Warpy Mar 2015 #42

I'd like to speak out as the founding member Aerows Mar 2015 #55

+1 Enthusiast Mar 2015 #224

In what way? Flatpicker Mar 2015 #168

What difference does it make if you win and all you get is Republican lite? cui bono Mar 2015 #186

We are the frog in the pot. Some of us want to get the Frack out of the pot rhett o rick Mar 2015 #242

HRC. NYC_SKP Mar 2015 #247

You got that right. cui bono Mar 2015 #255

Here's the difference - staggerleem Mar 2015 #253

But that's just playing their game. cui bono Mar 2015 #254

And that is how they keep the whole corrupt system going. Fear! because up to now, it has worked sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #305

"I'll vote for whatever stiff the party offers us" AngryOldDem Mar 2015 #216

+1000 nt freebrew Mar 2015 #232

I did auto-trash by Keyword on all threads with Clinton and Hillary in them steve2470 Mar 2015 #233

Most of them are rehashes of the 2008 Hillary War Warpy Mar 2015 #265

welcome to donco Mar 2015 #74

Many folks are totally confused re the narrative malaise Mar 2015 #77

I'm going to play along with this one, is smacks of total desperation. Rex Mar 2015 #83

That's exactly what a thought when I saw it. And if you have to go to those lengths for sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #196

East meets West.... DeSwiss Mar 2015 #88

Thanks for posting. I think Ralph Nader is right about this possible alliance on specific JDPriestly Mar 2015 #195

I have right wing views but mostly left wing views PatrynXX Mar 2015 #99

I strongly oppose drones. Rand Paul opposes drones. Therefore, I am Rand Paul RufusTFirefly Mar 2015 #117

yes, that is the gop teapublicans hopemountain Mar 2015 #134

I hear ya, Rogue. Blue_In_AK Mar 2015 #154

+1000 marym625 Mar 2015 #221

If you've been on here long enough, someone will undoubtedly accuse you of being a freep. Javaman Mar 2015 #229

Woah! What brought this on!? I've never thought that about you, someone call you that? Rex Mar 2015 #2

I second that emotion! daredtowork Mar 2015 #7

I have had exactly the same experience KellyW Mar 2015 #226

*This* steaming pile of excellence: MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #10

SSShhh...we are supposed to be playing their game! Rex Mar 2015 #14

D'oh, I didn't see wh posted the question MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #22

'I've been meaning to start a campaign to get Center-right wing Democrats to go bonkers.' Rex Mar 2015 #31

that's some weasely garbage. m-lekktor Mar 2015 #25

It is not about that, it should be right? Rex Mar 2015 #35

Jury results of alert NightWatcher Mar 2015 #46

LOL! Even the leave alone posts had some DAMN interesting and insightful comments Number23 Mar 2015 #73

*That* got a 3-4 decision? MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #137

Kind of like handycapping the SCOTUS (nt) PosterChild Mar 2015 #175

charlatans BubbaFett Mar 2015 #110

So, the theory is, I hope I'm getting this right, that if Freepers hate someone, we should love them sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #207

And if you are against drone strikes you are a Paulbot because Rand is against them too! cui bono Mar 2015 #258

What are you if you are STILL against the Iraq War? sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #269

It's hard for some people to stay focused on ideals and principles I guess. cui bono Mar 2015 #277

Who on earth would ever think you're a Freeper? cyberswede Mar 2015 #3

There must be some troll here pintobean Mar 2015 #24

This message was self-deleted by its author Aerows Mar 2015 #30

Huh? Spazito Mar 2015 #4

that's some bizarre shit JI7 Mar 2015 #8

Bizarre is an understatement... Spazito Mar 2015 #13

I feel duped that I wasn't made aware ownership hasn't been changed./NT DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #19

I just checked Announcements in case I missed the news... Spazito Mar 2015 #32

Did you go to who is? DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #37

Well, that's all I needed to see Number23 Mar 2015 #12

I know, right! Spazito Mar 2015 #16

I own your mind MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #36

To bad a troll didn't sign up and accuse you of being the Admin right? Rex Mar 2015 #50

About a year ago, there was a subthread accusing me MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #56

Well you have some interesting detractors here. Rex Mar 2015 #66

I have damned fine detractors MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #139

I think we have the same small group! Lol! sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #192

!!! MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #220

You don't even own your own divisiveness here, what makes you think you own anything else? Number23 Mar 2015 #76

!!!! zappaman Mar 2015 #82

Boom!!! Spazito Mar 2015 #98

Boom must be the new word of the week, no? Manny is terrific. He has a few detractors here but the sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #194

I'm clapping with hands and feet. Manny is the best. JDPriestly Mar 2015 #197

Me too, and it looks like a majority of DUers also. sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #199

You seem to want to put the name "Manny" in all your posts to me... Spazito Mar 2015 #236

Only when you attempt to personally attack one of DU's most popular posters, and he is that popular sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #278

I attacked no one... Spazito Mar 2015 #280

I find hero worship disgusting, actually. Always did, of .anyone, not just of anonymous sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #293

This quote addresses your question the best... Spazito Mar 2015 #300

No, it doesn't. So it was just hyperbole, a strawman, an intended sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #301

LOL! Spazito Mar 2015 #302

That's what I just said. You got it! sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #303

Awesome!!!! Spazito Mar 2015 #304

yup JI7 Mar 2015 #144

Well said! hrmjustin Mar 2015 #151

How was that 'well said'? Could you explain it? Personally I saw it as a personal attack, but sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #210

Yesterday I got called out on something rightly. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #241

Looks like you've got something on your ankle... Number23 Mar 2015 #211

Recently I have had more arguments with some posters and that is fine. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #237

Have you noticed how nasty a few people here have been to Progressives for several YEARS now? sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #288

There have been attacks on Hillary supporters for years. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #289

What do you mean by 'divisive'? When a majority of people agree with something or someone sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #290

First of all i don't know what you wre talking about me lining up with a group. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #291

I was not referring to you regarding not contributing anything. sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #292

Like Harry Truman didn't own giving'em hell MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #155

That is NEVER going to happen. Lol! sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #200

Perfect. nt msanthrope Mar 2015 #170

Amen, sister. Bobbie Jo Mar 2015 #177

TWM doesn't own anything... joshcryer Mar 2015 #198

*mic drop* eom BlueCaliDem Mar 2015 #204

Wait wut??? GusBob Mar 2015 #21

I'll drink to that DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #27

Huh? greatauntoftriplets Mar 2015 #40

I'm sad too!!! bravenak Mar 2015 #47

"Sad" isn't exactly the word I'd use.... greatauntoftriplets Mar 2015 #54

Nobody informed me. bravenak Mar 2015 #63

Maybe they're trying to sneak it past us. greatauntoftriplets Mar 2015 #70

I'd ask in ATA, but, I'm scared Manny will answer. bravenak Mar 2015 #75

I thought of that, too. greatauntoftriplets Mar 2015 #81

Thank God! bravenak Mar 2015 #89

But, if it was a sudden coup, maybe it was in the last three days! greatauntoftriplets Mar 2015 #91

So true!! This must be investigated fully! Anything could have happened to them. bravenak Mar 2015 #101

Absolutely! Their children need them!!! (well, Skinner and EarlG, that is). greatauntoftriplets Mar 2015 #106

'Will somebody PLEASE think of the children!!!' bravenak Mar 2015 #112

And they're grade school age, too young to support their parents. greatauntoftriplets Mar 2015 #116

It will be one bowl of gruel a day for the poor souls. bravenak Mar 2015 #118

Please, Sir. I want some more. greatauntoftriplets Mar 2015 #119

Thanks, Obama!!! bravenak Mar 2015 #121

And Biden! greatauntoftriplets Mar 2015 #125

Maybe Manny is holding them hostage./NT DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #49

Oh no....ISIS? greatauntoftriplets Mar 2015 #57

Our friend, Manny, would just talk them to death./NT DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #60

... greatauntoftriplets Mar 2015 #67

I know! Spazito Mar 2015 #53

Doesn't seem their style. greatauntoftriplets Mar 2015 #58

I even googled 'who owns Democratic Underground'... Spazito Mar 2015 #68

You'd think he'd update it so fast our heads would spin. greatauntoftriplets Mar 2015 #71

Yeah, that was my thought too... Spazito Mar 2015 #86

Guess we better watch what we say now... greatauntoftriplets Mar 2015 #87

It looks like it's all good, it was a cut and paste error... Spazito Mar 2015 #93

I hope they're not trying to give us a false sense of security... greatauntoftriplets Mar 2015 #96

Oh crap, you could be right!!! Spazito Mar 2015 #103

The sky might be falling! The sky might be falling!!! greatauntoftriplets Mar 2015 #107

Now? Bobbie Jo Mar 2015 #141

LOL. greatauntoftriplets Mar 2015 #142

Ahem....nt msanthrope Mar 2015 #173

Brilliant. Bobbie Jo Mar 2015 #174

My post was originally a response to one of Manny's posts. Sorry for the confusion. JDPriestly Mar 2015 #79

Whew, good to know it was a cut and paste error! Spazito Mar 2015 #90

Me too... As a Gold Star member i want to know where my money is going./NT DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #104

Don't worry, most people in the thread were smart enough to figure that out. It isn't exactly dissentient Mar 2015 #94

These days, you just never know, better to check, right! Spazito Mar 2015 #115

You are also fantastic and usually completely right! And one of the most level headed on here. cui bono Mar 2015 #189

Clearly a lot of people on DU agree with you. sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #202

Thank you for keeping the focus on issues JD sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #311

Try thinking of it this way. The Administrators give all of us the chance to say what we want to say sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #201

ROFL! Spazito Mar 2015 #235

Agreed. Dems should be Progressive, not Republican-Lite. nt valerief Mar 2015 #5

+1 Segami Mar 2015 #6

All the candidates should tithe their funds to the nominee. That way, may the best Dem win, not the leveymg Mar 2015 #9

Someone called you a freeper? ColesCountyDem Mar 2015 #11

There is no way that anyone could possibly think of you as a Freeper, JD. But I know why you posted sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #15

I agree heartily Aerows Mar 2015 #26

Yes, and it's driving people away. I don't know who ever thought you could force people to sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #52

I suppose the beatings will continue Aerows Mar 2015 #69

truly funny nt fadedrose Mar 2015 #113

And rather not Aerows Mar 2015 #133

Lol, that seems to be the plan! sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #190

Maybe, but I also think that the pro-Russia and pro-Putin posters are driving people away CreekDog Mar 2015 #225

I so totally agree with you! marlakay Mar 2015 #124

"This is the time for Democrats to pick the best candidate possible." corkhead Mar 2015 #17

You are most certainly not Aerows Mar 2015 #18

Wonderful post. BlueJazz Mar 2015 #20

I never thought of you as a freeper. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #23

I nominate that as least needed disclaimer in DU history!! HereSince1628 Mar 2015 #28

Well Said: JDPriestly Mar 2015 #92

I feel ya, you describe yourself as what has been a Democrat for most of my life Dragonfli Mar 2015 #29

In the last few days I was accused of being a Third Wayer dflprincess Mar 2015 #162

That doesn't make you 3rd Way (not caring about security rules regarding State Dept. Email records) Dragonfli Mar 2015 #184

Awesome post!! You make me proud to be a Democrat :) RiverLover Mar 2015 #33

Great post, thanks locks Mar 2015 #38

Well said; and it needed to be said. Octafish Mar 2015 #41

There does seem to be an asshole wing here, as well as a goose-stepping sheeple wing who dissentient Mar 2015 #44

++++ fadedrose Mar 2015 #123

Pay no attention to them, they are 'leaving' because they cannot control this place. Rex Mar 2015 #299

Courtesy of Juror #1 DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #45

I would like to thank Juror #1 for my laugh of the day - I sincerely truly djean111 Mar 2015 #62

My "Hide" bar is very high... DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #64

Trumad is no match for Manny Oilwellian Mar 2015 #143

The world's most famous pornographer made an analogy about opinions and body parts... DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #148

LOL. I don't know who "trumad" is, but I know who Manny is dissentient Mar 2015 #150

You don't know trumad. Only Sid surpasses him. nt msanthrope Mar 2015 #217

You can tell it is pure projection too? Rex Mar 2015 #72

I wonder about you being a freeper Half-Century Man Mar 2015 #48

We need to work to get the best candidate we can. Sienna86 Mar 2015 #51

I'm 61 and I'm not a Freeper, either... I hate liars Mar 2015 #59

Yep. And welcome to DU! cui bono Mar 2015 #191

"We need a president with the ability to use the bully pulpit" BumRushDaShow Mar 2015 #61

Great post, great thread. Thanks JDPriestly. Just today I was accused of wanting Scott Walker ... Scuba Mar 2015 #65

I have seen similar. Some of these fan club types just seem very confused dissentient Mar 2015 #84

I am not a left-leaning independent either. I've voted straight D since 1978 Doctor_J Mar 2015 #78

well said... grasswire Mar 2015 #169

You have to laugh them off. Jamastiene Mar 2015 #80

I echo all of your concerns & also have been a lifelong dem, and feel like you, enough is mother earth Mar 2015 #85

DU Rec. SixString Mar 2015 #95

well said sir stupidicus Mar 2015 #97

Ma'am. MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #108

thanks dude stupidicus Mar 2015 #128

That's "dudess" MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #131

lol stupidicus Mar 2015 #146

I think there is a function here that automatically alerts on all your posts. rhett o rick Mar 2015 #243

Have the Third Wayers marketed a "Manny Alert APP"? Divernan Mar 2015 #260

I totally agree. But I don't think we need Hillary. I think there are some real young people out LiberalArkie Mar 2015 #100

JD, I've seen your excellent posts for a decade, I think Demeter Mar 2015 #102

Wow, already 77 rec's with a bullet and almost near the top of the greatest page... dissentient Mar 2015 #105

Never thought you were. Cleita Mar 2015 #109

?? Of course you're not a freeper. DU, especially GD, has gotten very very strange of late Hekate Mar 2015 #111

I AM NOT A TROLL! L0oniX Mar 2015 #114

Yes, yes, yes elfin Mar 2015 #120

Name calling happens too often, if you have something important to say do so Thinkingabout Mar 2015 #122

Ignore the foolishness and just stay true to your values. democrank Mar 2015 #126

Thanks. JDPriestly Mar 2015 #135

well said nt grasswire Mar 2015 #172

k/r 840high Mar 2015 #127

You're a Freeper! No, YOU'RE a Freeper! RufusTFirefly Mar 2015 #129

If you need to tell people you're not a Freeper... MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #130

You sure are not. BeanMusical Mar 2015 #132

I wasn't, actually, but you lost me with your first point. bluedigger Mar 2015 #136

Who the fuck accused you of being a freeper?! blackspade Mar 2015 #138

Well said. obxhead Mar 2015 #140

Something is wrong here. It was at 108 rec, I hit rec and it went up to 112 recs Autumn Mar 2015 #145

lol. Or, your rec is worth 4 rec's of an average duer. dissentient Mar 2015 #147

Must be, or it's a gift given to only certain DUers. Autumn Mar 2015 #149

No. That means that between the time someone else recommended and you did, several JDPriestly Mar 2015 #153

In case I haven't told you this before, Blue_In_AK Mar 2015 #152

Thanks. I'm just sorry I can't thank all the DUers who have posted in my support here. JDPriestly Mar 2015 #156

Sure your not Revanchist Mar 2015 #157

Not A Chance In Hell !!! WillyT Mar 2015 #158

Agreed, but I am learning that I must be. madfloridian Mar 2015 #159

Thank you Thespian2 Mar 2015 #160

Jeb's campaign slogan: "Fool Me Three Times...". JohnnyRingo Mar 2015 #161

That thought has certainly never crossed my mind dflprincess Mar 2015 #163

Nope, Freepers are generally stupid dorks that try to stifle debate. Bonobo Mar 2015 #164

I agree 100%. What you've eloquently stated is exactly why I support NYC Liberal Mar 2015 #165

I don't see in Hillary what you see in her. Could you post speeches, etc. that support JDPriestly Mar 2015 #176

Here are some: NYC Liberal Mar 2015 #179

And she supports the TPP, voted for the Iraq War, is married to JDPriestly Mar 2015 #281

Thank you so much! redstatebluegirl Mar 2015 #166

Well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wow onecent Mar 2015 #167

I took some time to think about this, my friend Aerows Mar 2015 #171

K&R hay rick Mar 2015 #178

I agree. johnnyreb Mar 2015 #180

I apologize to you and other DUers for being apart of that thread. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #181

I don't understand why that's such a hard concept for so many on DU? BlueCaliDem Mar 2015 #205

Indeed! hrmjustin Mar 2015 #239

Are you talking about trumad's thread as the "other" thread? Number23 Mar 2015 #212

Do you think that the "centrists" fling poo? cui bono Mar 2015 #214

Yes I mean his thread. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #238

I still think it's in response to some real anger that alot feel here Number23 Mar 2015 #263

I don't either and I understand the anger but I feel i should have stepped back from it. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #264

K, R, Bookmarking. BlancheSplanchnik Mar 2015 #182

I don't understand why people believe competition is good except in politics, Clinton vs. Bush... whereisjustice Mar 2015 #183

amen. nt awoke_in_2003 Mar 2015 #185

You are NOT alone emsimon33 Mar 2015 #187

freep.com Joe Johns Mar 2015 #188

JD, you are one of the best things about DU! cui bono Mar 2015 #193

then why did you list Ike with all the Democrats? hfojvt Mar 2015 #203

You realize that Ike was not a dyed-in-the-wool Republican, right? Art_from_Ark Mar 2015 #275

Eisenhower was definitely a Republican. I wore my Stevenson JDPriestly Mar 2015 #282

Didn't you mean to say Art_from_Ark Mar 2015 #294

Yes. Thanks. I'll edit my post. JDPriestly Mar 2015 #295

I'm still trying to figure out why we should care what Freepers think, or say, or do? How is that sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #206

I work with enough right wing nutjobs to know what Freepers/conservatives/Republicans think. neverforget Mar 2015 #208

Oh no, who would think you are a freeper? You have always akbacchus_BC Mar 2015 #209

Hillary will run to Obama's right. And lose. blkmusclmachine Mar 2015 #213

Yes, completely agree. But that's just what Republicans want. closeupready Mar 2015 #259

Huge K&R for your post. AngryOldDem Mar 2015 #215

K&R! marym625 Mar 2015 #218

K&R! This post deserves hundreds of recommendations! It has them! Enthusiast Mar 2015 #219

I am getting sick of this blind treestar Mar 2015 #222

^ this right here really doesn't help TBF Mar 2015 #227

I am a liberal and I am sick of being told I am not treestar Mar 2015 #272

Personally I would like to see TBF Mar 2015 #274

HRC may be liberal for social issues but it ends there. nm rhett o rick Mar 2015 #244

Like many words and expressions in English, the meaning of the term "Wall Street" JDPriestly Mar 2015 #250

The government does regulate the stock market treestar Mar 2015 #273

Bill Clinton signed the bill that repealed Glass-Steagall. JDPriestly Mar 2015 #283

Modern economic practices a la Clinton and Bush not sustainable. NYC_SKP Mar 2015 #256

Hillary is a tool of Wall Street. She's not a liberal. Here is her todo list whereisjustice Mar 2015 #287

Ignore them, they're desperate tularetom Mar 2015 #223

JDPriestly Diclotican Mar 2015 #228

It's unfortunate that you needed to explain that abelenkpe Mar 2015 #230

I've never seen you as a freeper, only as a good progressive nt steve2470 Mar 2015 #231

kick samsingh Mar 2015 #234

"I do not think she should be the Democratic candidate." Hear, Hear!!! NYC_SKP Mar 2015 #240

Senator Warren is not running workinclasszero Mar 2015 #245

Wrong. Warren only said she hopes that Hillary runs. Also, Hillary is not running. NYC_SKP Mar 2015 #246

Bernie Sanders has been appearing on some TV shows and at the National Press Club JDPriestly Mar 2015 #308

Link? cui bono Mar 2015 #257

No time to figure out what's going on...but Thanks for the well stated OP! KoKo Mar 2015 #248

Hey There... Was Extremely Busy Over Weekend, Many TECH Problems! ChiciB1 Mar 2015 #249

Job One right now is wrestling control of the Party away from the corporatists. Maedhros Mar 2015 #251

+1000. JDPriestly Mar 2015 #284

It's also worthwhile to note that for many people, "politics" is not about issues - Maedhros Mar 2015 #286

Very well stated. Thank you. Myrina Mar 2015 #252

democrats sold their souls to compete in the reagan twisted media landscape they are LOCKED IN. pansypoo53219 Mar 2015 #261

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Mar 2015 #262

I know of one known former Freeper that regularly posts here JonLP24 Mar 2015 #266

Recommend...! Policy....it so often gets lost.... KoKo Mar 2015 #271

I hear you. Try being a lefty who supports 2A. You'll be called more! Eleanors38 Mar 2015 #267

Thank you JDPriestly for posting on this board. Utopian Leftist Mar 2015 #268

DURec for JD. bvar22 Mar 2015 #270

I would never have thought of you as a freeper. peacebird Mar 2015 #276

I will support our nominee MFM008 Mar 2015 #279

Only a freeper RobertEarl Mar 2015 #285

I've never wondered that about you even though we strongly disagree on the I/P issue... Violet_Crumble Mar 2015 #296

Sorry. I'm tired. What is the I/P issue? JDPriestly Mar 2015 #297

Israel/Palestine... Violet_Crumble Mar 2015 #298

Thanks. I have a different view on that because I lived in Europe for quite a number of years JDPriestly Mar 2015 #310

I'm so NOT "wondering" Ernesto Mar 2015 #306

Thank you for posting this, JD. ladyVet Mar 2015 #307

Kick and REC!! hifiguy Mar 2015 #309