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Wella

(1,827 posts)

124. The actual facts of the case: the broken sound ordinance laws, the company that kept being fined

Tue Mar 10, 2015, 01:27 AM

Mar 2015

but ignored the laws, the frustrated town, their outsourced services and court, the desire expressed (in TV interviews) to get the company's attention: those are the facts surrounding the punishment for the sound ordinances. The goal of the town in giving the ludicrous (and probably illegal) sentence was NOT to punish a man for being black or to overpunish a man because he was black. The (inept) little outsourced court in this completely outsourced town was trying to "teach the company a lesson" and did something incredibly stupid and unprofessional. This is what you get when you outsource.

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The jailed garbageman case is NOT racism [View all] Wella Mar 2015 OP

Did they put the corporation in jail? FSogol Mar 2015 #1

You clearly didn't read the whole post. Wella Mar 2015 #2

So? The privatized court is wrong and the corporation is wrong, yet a person is sitting in jail. n/t FSogol Mar 2015 #3

Thanks for playing "Missing the Point Entirely!" Wella Mar 2015 #4

What a bunch of nonsense, you want to put privitatizion in jail? FSogol Mar 2015 #7

You clearly didn't read or understand. Wella Mar 2015 #9

Try a writer's workshop. FSogol Mar 2015 #10

Try a phonics class Wella Mar 2015 #15

It's not missing the point that the poster wants to talk about the man in jail CreekDog Mar 2015 #167

and the other poster wants to talk about the privatization which creates such fucked-up ND-Dem Mar 2015 #170

This is a lesson in privatization and what it does. Wella Mar 2015 #5

'racism' is just a simpler sell for many; especially those w/ vested interests ND-Dem Mar 2015 #82

Sandy Springs is 41.3% NON WHITE, 20% African American Wella Mar 2015 #92

why are you asking me? i'm not the one saying it is. i agree with you; money is key. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #126

Sorry, it gets a little fast and furious in here sometimes. Wella Mar 2015 #128

Simple. There's never been a white garbageman jailed for picking up trash 3 hours early CreekDog Mar 2015 #169

Exactly, and the black man is less likely to be able to pay the fine, get out on bail, etc. NoJusticeNoPeace Mar 2015 #177

Vested interest in the truth? CreekDog Mar 2015 #146

yeah, no one has a vested interest in wealth. just in whiteness. right. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #155

They're going to put a multinational corporation in jail because a garbageman in their little ND-Dem Mar 2015 #158

Jesus Fuckin' Christ I should have known that was Sandy Springs... Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #6

Regardless, look at the actual argument Wella Mar 2015 #8

This is a wakeup call about several things Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #11

I understand you don't want to give up your emotional connection to this story Wella Mar 2015 #13

What's the "real problem"? Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #17

The privatized court couldn't sufficiently punish a private corporation, so Wella Mar 2015 #19

I repeat, I'm not disputing your point Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #28

Why would a municipality have a right to enforce one of its laws? Wella Mar 2015 #31

I'm just saying I've never heard of "no trash collection before X time" laws before... Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #39

There are noise ordinances in most places Wella Mar 2015 #41

I see nothing about noise or decibel levels in the law Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #46

But there are times of day noted. Wella Mar 2015 #47

I'd argue that Sandy Springs is poorly run Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #50

It might, in fact, be. When you privatize/outsource everything, cohesion must suffer Wella Mar 2015 #64

They outsourced their brains as well Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #74

Excellent ideas Blue_Tires Wella Mar 2015 #80

who's going to do it when the 'government' is outsourced? ND-Dem Mar 2015 #85

Their police department? Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #86

Who's going to order the police department to do it (& are you sure the police aren't outsourced ND-Dem Mar 2015 #100

Agreed. Raine1967 Mar 2015 #56

While I Share Your Sentiments. . . ProfessorGAC Mar 2015 #32

I love the obligatory wealth/class references whatthehey Mar 2015 #12

61K is the median income? So it's not the uber wealthy? Wella Mar 2015 #14

No. Not even close. yeoman6987 Mar 2015 #22

So you're telling me this is a "war on the middle class" story. Wella Mar 2015 #33

We need a definition of middle class yeoman6987 Mar 2015 #43

Sociologists are pretty clear on defining middle vs working classes (vs. poor) Wella Mar 2015 #44

Well isn't that something. The politicians yeoman6987 Mar 2015 #45

You're full of it. US median household income is about $50K. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #106

Everything I stated is correct yeoman6987 Mar 2015 #125

Your town has a median income 60% higher than the US median. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #129

Still not �ber rich. Maybe the other 40 percent are yeoman6987 Mar 2015 #132

Richer than 70% of households. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #134

I have a long way to go yeoman6987 Mar 2015 #154

Thanks. Wella Mar 2015 #130

$60K is the median MALE income. Not HOUSEHOLD income. It's WAY higher than the US median. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #103

Ok. Thanks for the real stats. If you have two people working, then the household will have more $$ Wella Mar 2015 #107

$60K is above median male income as well. It's a wealthy area. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #113

If those Americans simply work harder, they can join yeoman in the 1% in some years alcibiades_mystery Mar 2015 #175

Malibu is well off, but there are CA towns and places with median household incomes twice that Bluenorthwest Mar 2015 #30

I thought Malibu was pretty high up there. Wella Mar 2015 #34

Only a few celebrities, actually Scootaloo Mar 2015 #53

Thanks for the info Wella Mar 2015 #65

Malibu is the whitest area in LA county and in 2000: ND-Dem Mar 2015 #119

Well, having never lived anywhere near Malibu ever, Wella Mar 2015 #121

There are more expensive places, most of them are very small. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #116

Bronxville, New York #20? Wella Mar 2015 #120

no. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #122

It's 57th. On a list with a lot of very small (<4000 households) municipalities. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #111

That would be Alpharetta or Roswell... Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #37

Your personal feelings aside, an ordinance was broken and the corporation was at fault Wella Mar 2015 #49

You keep saying "personal feelings" Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #51

The feelings that you are revealing in your posts Wella Mar 2015 #118

Wella has "logic." YOU, on the other hand, have "personal feelings." alcibiades_mystery Mar 2015 #176

The worker is not the corporation, lock up the President or the CEO and I bet TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #114

Like they're gonna lock up the connected gangsters that run Waste Management. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #135

You mean real gangsters? Wella Mar 2015 #143

a little of both; the founder is said to have underworld ties. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #156

Then collect your fines and suck it, I guess. TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #180

That's median income for a male in the city, and it's more than the US median HOUSEHOLD income. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #93

No, that's median MALE income. Median household income is >$100K. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #133

So they want their garbage picked up Capt. Obvious Mar 2015 #16

That's NOT the issue. They have a right to their laws and paid a company that refused to follow them Wella Mar 2015 #20

Big picture Capt. Obvious Mar 2015 #23

Almost: Big picture: Don't privatize public services period. Wella Mar 2015 #29

I think one of your points is likely spot on: Trillo Mar 2015 #18

The company IS responsible legally; whether they accept responsibility is a different question Wella Mar 2015 #21

That question has never been answered yeoman6987 Mar 2015 #24

I have a handful of guesses why Capt. Obvious Mar 2015 #25

Or, the company has a desire to finish early in the area Wella Mar 2015 #27

No it hasn't. But when a corporation has been fined many, many times for the same employee and the Wella Mar 2015 #26

That's Pretty Clear Under Agency Law ProfessorGAC Mar 2015 #35

That makes sense Wella Mar 2015 #36

Doesn't matter Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #54

Respondeat superior -- "the master shall answer" MindPilot Mar 2015 #38

Absolutely agree. The corporation is at fault here. Wella Mar 2015 #48

I don't think concerns regarding privatization denies relevant concerns of racism in this instance. LanternWaste Mar 2015 #40

The employee was not (ludicrously) jailed because he was black, but because he broke a law, punished Wella Mar 2015 #42

You can not say that he was not jailed for being black. Gormy Cuss Mar 2015 #179

White person telling black persons what is and isnt racist? NoJusticeNoPeace Mar 2015 #52

I think a more effective solution would be to fine Waste Management $10,000 per day Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #55

THIS^^^^^^^^ Wella Mar 2015 #66

who levies the fines? under whose jurisdiction? ND-Dem Mar 2015 #137

You don't know that. Zenlitened Mar 2015 #57

Did you not watch the video you posted? Raine1967 Mar 2015 #58

The video is about outsourcing the city services. Wella Mar 2015 #67

Regardless of what's on the video, what is clear is that pnwmom Mar 2015 #73

So you're making conclusions without knowing the facts Wella Mar 2015 #77

You did that in your OP. pnwmom Mar 2015 #81

No. I took the actual facts of the case and used logic (remember that?) to make few deductions Wella Mar 2015 #89

You made a claim, based on nothing, that racism was NOT involved. pnwmom Mar 2015 #139

>35% of the city = not white, and its wealthy residents include wealthy black folk like Herman Cain. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #148

Here's some information about a related lawsuit. pnwmom Mar 2015 #152

The town is 20% black. 65% white, which leaves some non-white 'other' as well. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #138

3000+ posts in 6 weeks? CreekDog Mar 2015 #147

here's another: what do you care? not to mention your math is bad. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #150

Uh-oh...the resident troll hunter is on yer sent...tread lightly...... Inkfreak Mar 2015 #173

Sorry, but Sandy Springs' white, Republican majority voted to segregate itself from Atlanta, Fulton Hoyt Mar 2015 #59

From what I have read, it was about taxation Wella Mar 2015 #68

Are you trying to be obtuse? "Taxation" is money going to the City of Atlanta, governed Hoyt Mar 2015 #83

Sandy Springs is 41.3% NON WHITE, 20% African American Wella Mar 2015 #94

Solid Republican district, that doesn't want their white money going to anything that helps Hoyt Mar 2015 #98

41.3% Non White; 20% African American Wella Mar 2015 #104

Do you two think there is racism in Ferguson? Minorities are well over 50%, but there is Hoyt Mar 2015 #174

Nah, racism is all but gone now that we have a black president who is thought to have NoJusticeNoPeace Mar 2015 #178

Only 3% of families and 7.9% of the population is below the poverty line, lower than the rate ND-Dem Mar 2015 #151

huh? now you've lost me. This city is very well-off compared to most places in Georgia, ND-Dem Mar 2015 #142

That post was based on the 60K figure given to me at the time Wella Mar 2015 #145

This message was self-deleted by its author ND-Dem Mar 2015 #141

There is a third possibility ... surrealAmerican Mar 2015 #60

Is that customary for waste management companies? Wella Mar 2015 #70

again, sounds plausible. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #144

****UPDATE*** City Suspends Jail Sentence. RiffRandell Mar 2015 #61

Great News. Thanks Hoyt Mar 2015 #62

Excellent. He should never have been sentenced in the first place. Wella Mar 2015 #63

Blacks COMMONLY get harsher sentences than whites for doing same crimes so to start the uponit7771 Mar 2015 #69

You're missing the context; the company was at fault Wella Mar 2015 #72

Where is the evidence for your belief? pnwmom Mar 2015 #76

there is data to prove harsher sentences for blacks uponit7771 Mar 2015 #91

But not that the court in this case was being racist Wella Mar 2015 #97

Who was at fault doesn't mean that blacks don't get Harsher sentences... blacks DO get harsher s uponit7771 Mar 2015 #84

No one ever said that. Most people on DU agree that blacks get harsher sentences in general Wella Mar 2015 #136

In order to prove racism wasn't involved, you'd have to prove pnwmom Mar 2015 #71

The people making the positive claim (of racism) must provide the supporting evidence Wella Mar 2015 #75

But the privatization was driven by racism; pnwmom Mar 2015 #79

The demographic evidence actually goes AGAINST your claim Wella Mar 2015 #87

Blacks get harsher sentences than whites for same crime, that's been proven and is statistical fact uponit7771 Mar 2015 #90

Yes, and older women get into fewer accidents than younger men--also a statistical fact Wella Mar 2015 #101

what does it take then - to prove racism WAS involved? hfojvt Mar 2015 #88

No, America's judicial system in the story and NO DOUBT racism is involved. The statistics don't uponit7771 Mar 2015 #96

There's actually a lot of doubt about this particular case Wella Mar 2015 #102

I'm not wanting to be opinionated just factual, if the "case" involves the US penal system then race uponit7771 Mar 2015 #108

But you're not being factual, at least not about this case. Wella Mar 2015 #110

What are you calling the "case" then? The story as a whole or just the complaint about the time of uponit7771 Mar 2015 #117

The actual facts of the case: the broken sound ordinance laws, the company that kept being fined Wella Mar 2015 #124

I'm willing to consider but it cuts REALLY close, it's like the FPD saying we didn't shoot that ... uponit7771 Mar 2015 #131

I understand your mistrust of the system Wella Mar 2015 #140

according to the city website, each individual household contracts for its own garbage service, ND-Dem Mar 2015 #171

good sleuthing and thinking. sounds reasonable. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #78

Not in the face of sentencing statistics, the SENTENCING part of this makes it about race... uponit7771 Mar 2015 #95

I think you have no way of proving that claim. It amounts to saying "blacks are jailed in higher ND-Dem Mar 2015 #99

Links inside, Sentencing bias is a well established norm in US penal system uponit7771 Mar 2015 #105

This is very true overall; I'm not disputing that Wella Mar 2015 #109

I don't think you can take the sentencing away from the issue or "case" as a whole, take the uponit7771 Mar 2015 #112

You absolutely have to look at the case in context Wella Mar 2015 #115

That it's hard to separate the motives of the judge still makes it about race, if blacks and browns uponit7771 Mar 2015 #123

There are a lot of things the city could have done differently Wella Mar 2015 #127

True, his name was on the citation but relevant to COMMON course for blacks race isn't uponit7771 Mar 2015 #162

The CEO of the company? I think you don't get the situation. It's a multinational corporation; ND-Dem Mar 2015 #153

no, she can legally jail the guy how much they make isn't relevant. If she wanted to send a message uponit7771 Mar 2015 #160

It's laughable. He wouldn't go to trial, let alone jail. It's a city of 90K and their rent-a-judge. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #165

You make a good case. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #149

Blacks get harsher sentences than whites for same crime, that's been proven and is statistical fact uponit7771 Mar 2015 #161

Huh? Did you mean to respond to me? NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #163

Yes, racism in this case isn't far fetched. No one should believe and institution that has regularly uponit7771 Mar 2015 #164

Oh, okay. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #166

Yeah, it's not racism CreekDog Mar 2015 #157

When was the last white garbage man arrested for doing his job? bravenak Mar 2015 #159

Thought you might like to know that if one believes the city's website, the city doesn't ND-Dem Mar 2015 #168

the body of your post doesn't really support the title fishwax Mar 2015 #172