General Discussion

Wella

(1,827 posts)

140. I understand your mistrust of the system

Tue Mar 10, 2015, 02:01 AM

Mar 2015

And for such a ludicrous sentence to be given to this man, there had to be a lot of emotion behind it. I don't think we disagree on that. I think we disagree on what we think the emotion was.

I believe it was absolute frustration, a feeling of impotence, and wanting to get back at the company but being (fairly) incompetent as an outsourced court. The town (outsourced) court officials said as much. I see the garbage man as being caught in the middle, his name on the tickets, and he being the only one that the court felt was in its jurisdiction to punish.

You believe it was racism.

If the company were not involved and there were not so much anger at the company's arrogant malfeasance, then racism would be the default in such an excessive sentence, all else being equal.

But there was A LOT involved in this case, and what I see is a privatized, outsourced system that proved impotent against a corporation that did what it damn well pleased. I see that situation as a harbinger of what's coming for all of us if Scott Walker and the Third Way Dems have their way.

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The jailed garbageman case is NOT racism [View all] Wella Mar 2015 OP

Did they put the corporation in jail? FSogol Mar 2015 #1

You clearly didn't read the whole post. Wella Mar 2015 #2

So? The privatized court is wrong and the corporation is wrong, yet a person is sitting in jail. n/t FSogol Mar 2015 #3

Thanks for playing "Missing the Point Entirely!" Wella Mar 2015 #4

What a bunch of nonsense, you want to put privitatizion in jail? FSogol Mar 2015 #7

You clearly didn't read or understand. Wella Mar 2015 #9

Try a writer's workshop. FSogol Mar 2015 #10

Try a phonics class Wella Mar 2015 #15

It's not missing the point that the poster wants to talk about the man in jail CreekDog Mar 2015 #167

and the other poster wants to talk about the privatization which creates such fucked-up ND-Dem Mar 2015 #170

This is a lesson in privatization and what it does. Wella Mar 2015 #5

'racism' is just a simpler sell for many; especially those w/ vested interests ND-Dem Mar 2015 #82

Sandy Springs is 41.3% NON WHITE, 20% African American Wella Mar 2015 #92

why are you asking me? i'm not the one saying it is. i agree with you; money is key. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #126

Sorry, it gets a little fast and furious in here sometimes. Wella Mar 2015 #128

Simple. There's never been a white garbageman jailed for picking up trash 3 hours early CreekDog Mar 2015 #169

Exactly, and the black man is less likely to be able to pay the fine, get out on bail, etc. NoJusticeNoPeace Mar 2015 #177

Vested interest in the truth? CreekDog Mar 2015 #146

yeah, no one has a vested interest in wealth. just in whiteness. right. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #155

They're going to put a multinational corporation in jail because a garbageman in their little ND-Dem Mar 2015 #158

Jesus Fuckin' Christ I should have known that was Sandy Springs... Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #6

Regardless, look at the actual argument Wella Mar 2015 #8

This is a wakeup call about several things Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #11

I understand you don't want to give up your emotional connection to this story Wella Mar 2015 #13

What's the "real problem"? Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #17

The privatized court couldn't sufficiently punish a private corporation, so Wella Mar 2015 #19

I repeat, I'm not disputing your point Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #28

Why would a municipality have a right to enforce one of its laws? Wella Mar 2015 #31

I'm just saying I've never heard of "no trash collection before X time" laws before... Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #39

There are noise ordinances in most places Wella Mar 2015 #41

I see nothing about noise or decibel levels in the law Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #46

But there are times of day noted. Wella Mar 2015 #47

I'd argue that Sandy Springs is poorly run Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #50

It might, in fact, be. When you privatize/outsource everything, cohesion must suffer Wella Mar 2015 #64

They outsourced their brains as well Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #74

Excellent ideas Blue_Tires Wella Mar 2015 #80

who's going to do it when the 'government' is outsourced? ND-Dem Mar 2015 #85

Their police department? Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #86

Who's going to order the police department to do it (& are you sure the police aren't outsourced ND-Dem Mar 2015 #100

Agreed. Raine1967 Mar 2015 #56

While I Share Your Sentiments. . . ProfessorGAC Mar 2015 #32

I love the obligatory wealth/class references whatthehey Mar 2015 #12

61K is the median income? So it's not the uber wealthy? Wella Mar 2015 #14

No. Not even close. yeoman6987 Mar 2015 #22

So you're telling me this is a "war on the middle class" story. Wella Mar 2015 #33

We need a definition of middle class yeoman6987 Mar 2015 #43

Sociologists are pretty clear on defining middle vs working classes (vs. poor) Wella Mar 2015 #44

Well isn't that something. The politicians yeoman6987 Mar 2015 #45

You're full of it. US median household income is about $50K. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #106

Everything I stated is correct yeoman6987 Mar 2015 #125

Your town has a median income 60% higher than the US median. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #129

Still not �ber rich. Maybe the other 40 percent are yeoman6987 Mar 2015 #132

Richer than 70% of households. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #134

I have a long way to go yeoman6987 Mar 2015 #154

Thanks. Wella Mar 2015 #130

$60K is the median MALE income. Not HOUSEHOLD income. It's WAY higher than the US median. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #103

Ok. Thanks for the real stats. If you have two people working, then the household will have more $$ Wella Mar 2015 #107

$60K is above median male income as well. It's a wealthy area. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #113

If those Americans simply work harder, they can join yeoman in the 1% in some years alcibiades_mystery Mar 2015 #175

Malibu is well off, but there are CA towns and places with median household incomes twice that Bluenorthwest Mar 2015 #30

I thought Malibu was pretty high up there. Wella Mar 2015 #34

Only a few celebrities, actually Scootaloo Mar 2015 #53

Thanks for the info Wella Mar 2015 #65

Malibu is the whitest area in LA county and in 2000: ND-Dem Mar 2015 #119

Well, having never lived anywhere near Malibu ever, Wella Mar 2015 #121

There are more expensive places, most of them are very small. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #116

Bronxville, New York #20? Wella Mar 2015 #120

no. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #122

It's 57th. On a list with a lot of very small (<4000 households) municipalities. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #111

That would be Alpharetta or Roswell... Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #37

Your personal feelings aside, an ordinance was broken and the corporation was at fault Wella Mar 2015 #49

You keep saying "personal feelings" Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #51

The feelings that you are revealing in your posts Wella Mar 2015 #118

Wella has "logic." YOU, on the other hand, have "personal feelings." alcibiades_mystery Mar 2015 #176

The worker is not the corporation, lock up the President or the CEO and I bet TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #114

Like they're gonna lock up the connected gangsters that run Waste Management. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #135

You mean real gangsters? Wella Mar 2015 #143

a little of both; the founder is said to have underworld ties. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #156

Then collect your fines and suck it, I guess. TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #180

That's median income for a male in the city, and it's more than the US median HOUSEHOLD income. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #93

No, that's median MALE income. Median household income is >$100K. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #133

So they want their garbage picked up Capt. Obvious Mar 2015 #16

That's NOT the issue. They have a right to their laws and paid a company that refused to follow them Wella Mar 2015 #20

Big picture Capt. Obvious Mar 2015 #23

Almost: Big picture: Don't privatize public services period. Wella Mar 2015 #29

I think one of your points is likely spot on: Trillo Mar 2015 #18

The company IS responsible legally; whether they accept responsibility is a different question Wella Mar 2015 #21

That question has never been answered yeoman6987 Mar 2015 #24

I have a handful of guesses why Capt. Obvious Mar 2015 #25

Or, the company has a desire to finish early in the area Wella Mar 2015 #27

No it hasn't. But when a corporation has been fined many, many times for the same employee and the Wella Mar 2015 #26

That's Pretty Clear Under Agency Law ProfessorGAC Mar 2015 #35

That makes sense Wella Mar 2015 #36

Doesn't matter Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #54

Respondeat superior -- "the master shall answer" MindPilot Mar 2015 #38

Absolutely agree. The corporation is at fault here. Wella Mar 2015 #48

I don't think concerns regarding privatization denies relevant concerns of racism in this instance. LanternWaste Mar 2015 #40

The employee was not (ludicrously) jailed because he was black, but because he broke a law, punished Wella Mar 2015 #42

You can not say that he was not jailed for being black. Gormy Cuss Mar 2015 #179

White person telling black persons what is and isnt racist? NoJusticeNoPeace Mar 2015 #52

I think a more effective solution would be to fine Waste Management $10,000 per day Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #55

THIS^^^^^^^^ Wella Mar 2015 #66

who levies the fines? under whose jurisdiction? ND-Dem Mar 2015 #137

You don't know that. Zenlitened Mar 2015 #57

Did you not watch the video you posted? Raine1967 Mar 2015 #58

The video is about outsourcing the city services. Wella Mar 2015 #67

Regardless of what's on the video, what is clear is that pnwmom Mar 2015 #73

So you're making conclusions without knowing the facts Wella Mar 2015 #77

You did that in your OP. pnwmom Mar 2015 #81

No. I took the actual facts of the case and used logic (remember that?) to make few deductions Wella Mar 2015 #89

You made a claim, based on nothing, that racism was NOT involved. pnwmom Mar 2015 #139

>35% of the city = not white, and its wealthy residents include wealthy black folk like Herman Cain. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #148

Here's some information about a related lawsuit. pnwmom Mar 2015 #152

The town is 20% black. 65% white, which leaves some non-white 'other' as well. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #138

3000+ posts in 6 weeks? CreekDog Mar 2015 #147

here's another: what do you care? not to mention your math is bad. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #150

Uh-oh...the resident troll hunter is on yer sent...tread lightly...... Inkfreak Mar 2015 #173

Sorry, but Sandy Springs' white, Republican majority voted to segregate itself from Atlanta, Fulton Hoyt Mar 2015 #59

From what I have read, it was about taxation Wella Mar 2015 #68

Are you trying to be obtuse? "Taxation" is money going to the City of Atlanta, governed Hoyt Mar 2015 #83

Sandy Springs is 41.3% NON WHITE, 20% African American Wella Mar 2015 #94

Solid Republican district, that doesn't want their white money going to anything that helps Hoyt Mar 2015 #98

41.3% Non White; 20% African American Wella Mar 2015 #104

Do you two think there is racism in Ferguson? Minorities are well over 50%, but there is Hoyt Mar 2015 #174

Nah, racism is all but gone now that we have a black president who is thought to have NoJusticeNoPeace Mar 2015 #178

Only 3% of families and 7.9% of the population is below the poverty line, lower than the rate ND-Dem Mar 2015 #151

huh? now you've lost me. This city is very well-off compared to most places in Georgia, ND-Dem Mar 2015 #142

That post was based on the 60K figure given to me at the time Wella Mar 2015 #145

This message was self-deleted by its author ND-Dem Mar 2015 #141

There is a third possibility ... surrealAmerican Mar 2015 #60

Is that customary for waste management companies? Wella Mar 2015 #70

again, sounds plausible. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #144

****UPDATE*** City Suspends Jail Sentence. RiffRandell Mar 2015 #61

Great News. Thanks Hoyt Mar 2015 #62

Excellent. He should never have been sentenced in the first place. Wella Mar 2015 #63

Blacks COMMONLY get harsher sentences than whites for doing same crimes so to start the uponit7771 Mar 2015 #69

You're missing the context; the company was at fault Wella Mar 2015 #72

Where is the evidence for your belief? pnwmom Mar 2015 #76

there is data to prove harsher sentences for blacks uponit7771 Mar 2015 #91

But not that the court in this case was being racist Wella Mar 2015 #97

Who was at fault doesn't mean that blacks don't get Harsher sentences... blacks DO get harsher s uponit7771 Mar 2015 #84

No one ever said that. Most people on DU agree that blacks get harsher sentences in general Wella Mar 2015 #136

In order to prove racism wasn't involved, you'd have to prove pnwmom Mar 2015 #71

The people making the positive claim (of racism) must provide the supporting evidence Wella Mar 2015 #75

But the privatization was driven by racism; pnwmom Mar 2015 #79

The demographic evidence actually goes AGAINST your claim Wella Mar 2015 #87

Blacks get harsher sentences than whites for same crime, that's been proven and is statistical fact uponit7771 Mar 2015 #90

Yes, and older women get into fewer accidents than younger men--also a statistical fact Wella Mar 2015 #101

what does it take then - to prove racism WAS involved? hfojvt Mar 2015 #88

No, America's judicial system in the story and NO DOUBT racism is involved. The statistics don't uponit7771 Mar 2015 #96

There's actually a lot of doubt about this particular case Wella Mar 2015 #102

I'm not wanting to be opinionated just factual, if the "case" involves the US penal system then race uponit7771 Mar 2015 #108

But you're not being factual, at least not about this case. Wella Mar 2015 #110

What are you calling the "case" then? The story as a whole or just the complaint about the time of uponit7771 Mar 2015 #117

The actual facts of the case: the broken sound ordinance laws, the company that kept being fined Wella Mar 2015 #124

I'm willing to consider but it cuts REALLY close, it's like the FPD saying we didn't shoot that ... uponit7771 Mar 2015 #131

I understand your mistrust of the system Wella Mar 2015 #140

according to the city website, each individual household contracts for its own garbage service, ND-Dem Mar 2015 #171

good sleuthing and thinking. sounds reasonable. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #78

Not in the face of sentencing statistics, the SENTENCING part of this makes it about race... uponit7771 Mar 2015 #95

I think you have no way of proving that claim. It amounts to saying "blacks are jailed in higher ND-Dem Mar 2015 #99

Links inside, Sentencing bias is a well established norm in US penal system uponit7771 Mar 2015 #105

This is very true overall; I'm not disputing that Wella Mar 2015 #109

I don't think you can take the sentencing away from the issue or "case" as a whole, take the uponit7771 Mar 2015 #112

You absolutely have to look at the case in context Wella Mar 2015 #115

That it's hard to separate the motives of the judge still makes it about race, if blacks and browns uponit7771 Mar 2015 #123

There are a lot of things the city could have done differently Wella Mar 2015 #127

True, his name was on the citation but relevant to COMMON course for blacks race isn't uponit7771 Mar 2015 #162

The CEO of the company? I think you don't get the situation. It's a multinational corporation; ND-Dem Mar 2015 #153

no, she can legally jail the guy how much they make isn't relevant. If she wanted to send a message uponit7771 Mar 2015 #160

It's laughable. He wouldn't go to trial, let alone jail. It's a city of 90K and their rent-a-judge. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #165

You make a good case. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #149

Blacks get harsher sentences than whites for same crime, that's been proven and is statistical fact uponit7771 Mar 2015 #161

Huh? Did you mean to respond to me? NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #163

Yes, racism in this case isn't far fetched. No one should believe and institution that has regularly uponit7771 Mar 2015 #164

Oh, okay. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #166

Yeah, it's not racism CreekDog Mar 2015 #157

When was the last white garbage man arrested for doing his job? bravenak Mar 2015 #159

Thought you might like to know that if one believes the city's website, the city doesn't ND-Dem Mar 2015 #168

the body of your post doesn't really support the title fishwax Mar 2015 #172