General Discussion

BainsBane

(57,757 posts)

122. How is electing Sanders or Warren even possible?

Tue Mar 10, 2015, 09:29 PM

Mar 2015

Is this about your Christmas wish list or an actual election? How am I supposed to improve candidates? How do you imagine I could possibly have that kind of power? Why are you so fixated on individual personalities? You clearly buy into the mythology of the capitalist state in ways I do not. Just because you would like something to happen doesn't mean it can, particularly when you aren't willing to acknowledge its cause or work to change it.

The point about of the OP is not to change how you vote or think. It's to ask how low you or others are wiling to sink in the process. If people want to use Republican talking points and sources, they will be viewed as indistinguishable from them. If they target Democratic voters as the enemy, their claims of opposing the "corporatist state" become difficult to believe. If people want others to believe they care about principle, they should conduct themselves accordingly.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

245 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Vote for whomever you want [View all] BainsBane Mar 2015 OP

It's not a single politician, it's an ideology that needs to be rejected. AtomicKitten Mar 2015 #1

Exactly. bigwillq Mar 2015 #3

Only it's not BainsBane Mar 2015 #12

Many of us who oppose HRC in the primary dreamnightwind Mar 2015 #16

I submit that as long as you continue to focus on individual politicians BainsBane Mar 2015 #40

You are preaching to the choir dreamnightwind Mar 2015 #49

Then we agree on the more important issue BainsBane Mar 2015 #57

Gee I never thought of that dreamnightwind Mar 2015 #63

Sadly it is BainsBane Mar 2015 #65

Whatever dreamnightwind Mar 2015 #68

A lot of that is being on at least a national discussion and the other races are local. TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #171

Excellent, especially this: dreamnightwind Mar 2015 #239

If Obama and Hillary wont give me all that I want, I will support their opponent and get nothing NoJusticeNoPeace Mar 2015 #202

And the system won't change Bettie Mar 2015 #165

We could work together BainsBane Mar 2015 #175

I'd like to see that Bettie Mar 2015 #178

I don't know BainsBane Mar 2015 #181

We can agree on that Bettie Mar 2015 #184

Excellent post, NO, the system will NOT change in our lifetimes, and it will CERTAINLY not NoJusticeNoPeace Mar 2015 #204

And that 25% chance is actually the reason a Democrat, even a corporate one Bettie Mar 2015 #216

Terrible disappointment. Gay rights, SC justice nominees, ACA, getting us out of republican wars still_one Mar 2015 #230

Neoliberalism is the ideology I'm referring to. AtomicKitten Mar 2015 #31

Sigh BainsBane Mar 2015 #37

She certainly is a neoliberal. AtomicKitten Mar 2015 #59

Sorry, I did a transposition in my head BainsBane Mar 2015 #75

Disagree. AtomicKitten Mar 2015 #156

There are a lot of things I'd like to see BainsBane Mar 2015 #160

This is spot on! I'm not a gung ho Hillary fan because I don't care octoberlib Mar 2015 #48

The answer to your question is yes. She has been a driver of such policy not a hostage TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #205

+1,000,000. n/t winter is coming Mar 2015 #13

Considering she cited no policy BainsBane Mar 2015 #44

yes I cited policy AtomicKitten Mar 2015 #158

This. hifiguy Mar 2015 #20

+10000! Katashi_itto Mar 2015 #67

Republican Ideology? treestar Mar 2015 #168

The same people probably voted for Nader over Gore FLPanhandle Mar 2015 #2

You know BainsBane Mar 2015 #4

+1 for learning a lesson FLPanhandle Mar 2015 #7

Then you deserve all the shit you get here and more. RiffRandell Mar 2015 #135

or they may have been one of the 100,000+ registered Dems in FL that consciously voted for Bush.. frylock Mar 2015 #6

It's much easier to blame somebody else donch'a know. Rex Mar 2015 #42

Buit they are proud to vote their heart ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #17

What's that giant whooshing sound overhead? freshwest Mar 2015 #61

Pointing out weakness and strengths is the primary campaign HereSince1628 Mar 2015 #5

I think it's necessary to expose Hillary and her right wing policies Oilwellian Mar 2015 #8

I don't watch Fox News BainsBane Mar 2015 #19

And we will expose the lack of nuance in those objections and hypocrisy where appropriate. stevenleser Mar 2015 #33

thank you barbtries Mar 2015 #9

In terms of economic policy, you won't be able to slide hifiguy Mar 2015 #22

that nose analogy? what is this, 2002? right before the IWR passed the Senate on Dem votes? MisterP Mar 2015 #121

Tragically... Scootaloo Mar 2015 #10

I feel quite confident if we did an accounting of threads on Clinton BainsBane Mar 2015 #21

I'm sure you have such confidence Scootaloo Mar 2015 #35

You barely survived a hide JonLP24 Mar 2015 #46

I have a handful of alert-stalkers Scootaloo Mar 2015 #55

Yes, the right to vote for whomever you like is a freedom we have. Having said this elections also Thinkingabout Mar 2015 #11

OK, but being 100% certain that I have never voted for a Republican in my 30+ years of voting... bluesbassman Mar 2015 #14

Here the bandwagon is decidedly anti-Clinton BainsBane Mar 2015 #23

You know for such a bright person, your reading skills are limited. bluesbassman Mar 2015 #34

You may not BainsBane Mar 2015 #81

I disagree that defeating Clinton will have no effect on . . . R. P. McMurphy Mar 2015 #79

But tell me BainsBane Mar 2015 #83

I agree that the problem is systemic. But pease tell me . . . R. P. McMurphy Mar 2015 #94

How is electing Sanders or Warren even possible? BainsBane Mar 2015 #122

I know that neither Warren or Sanders will get . . . R. P. McMurphy Mar 2015 #129

My wish list is a constitutional amendment to require public financing BainsBane Mar 2015 #132

I didn't mean to call you a third wayer. The only point I'm R. P. McMurphy Mar 2015 #137

Why would you say I don't want her to be more progressive? BainsBane Mar 2015 #144

Okay. I'll restate the question. Why don't you acknowledge R. P. McMurphy Mar 2015 #146

Certainly she has flaws BainsBane Mar 2015 #149

You are right. Some people hate her for no other reason R. P. McMurphy Mar 2015 #150

That's kind of you BainsBane Mar 2015 #151

If you don't believe a moderate like Warren can be elected then no way you believe TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #206

I've had it with your petty insults BainsBane Mar 2015 #209

That was simply extraordinary Number23 Mar 2015 #219

Your standards = pitiful. You just high fived a tantrum taking credit for TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #241

Look, I know it pisses you off that people have the right to say "well said" to a post that they Number23 Mar 2015 #244

I'm not angry, that would be you. I just don't buy anyone could think passing TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #240

Well said! zappaman Mar 2015 #245

This message was self-deleted by its author R. P. McMurphy Mar 2015 #111

I almost didn't click on this - LiberalElite Mar 2015 #15

Well, that's more than the anti-Clinton side allows BainsBane Mar 2015 #27

Buried in your post was LiberalElite Mar 2015 #30

Now THAT is an ironic post. Maedhros Mar 2015 #41

I don't believe you'll find me insulting anyone over their choice for Dem nominee BainsBane Mar 2015 #50

I have many people who hurl personal attacks on ignore, so maybe I'm not seeing some of it. Maedhros Mar 2015 #70

The sweet smell of Irony.... Katashi_itto Mar 2015 #69

Something truly sick is going on at DU. No other candidates are being extolled,only Hillary-trashing Hekate Mar 2015 #18

Exactly BainsBane Mar 2015 #25

Careful. I had a post hidden for saying something along those same lines. Number23 Mar 2015 #32

That inconsistency about the war vote BainsBane Mar 2015 #53

She has evolved all the way to a slight walk back after years of stubborn defense TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #103

Please explain what you mean by this BainsBane Mar 2015 #105

I mean that her statements and patterns since the vote give no reason to think TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #164

Respectfully, Kerry's vote was more inexplicable than Clinton's. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #141

I said it was a bigger break from his perceived norm, both cite the same absurd rationale. TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #161

I saw that also Andy823 Mar 2015 #88

One and the same Number23 Mar 2015 #97

There's going to be Jamaal510 Mar 2015 #186

Just because you say it isn't about issues and policies . . . R. P. McMurphy Mar 2015 #108

Pretty soon we'll hear about her cankles and how she murdered Vince Foster Hekate Mar 2015 #117

Lame. Why don't you defend her Third Way policies? nt R. P. McMurphy Mar 2015 #123

More fucking crickets! Call an exterminator! nt R. P. McMurphy Mar 2015 #114

'scuse me? wtf are you on about? Hekate Mar 2015 #119

Didn't see what I thought was a timely reply. I see that you R. P. McMurphy Mar 2015 #126

Maybe check your auto-trash. You must have Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders in there HereSince1628 Mar 2015 #125

The only topic I have on auto-trash is child-murders, and it's not working Hekate Mar 2015 #131

Then you're not really getting a true sample of what's on DU HereSince1628 Mar 2015 #134

I'm not being selective. I really hope for a robust primary. But all the noise here... Hekate Mar 2015 #139

3 is better than 1, 2 would be better than 1. This is hardly ideal HereSince1628 Mar 2015 #145

been going on that way for a while. I saw posts blaming Hillary for not speaking up quickly enough still_one Mar 2015 #238

I liked what I saw of Hillary today. John Poet Mar 2015 #24

We have a vocal minority who genuinely prefer 4-8 years of legitimate whining LadyHawkAZ Mar 2015 #26

The GOP doesn't give a fig about DU LittleBlue Mar 2015 #28

You're probably right BainsBane Mar 2015 #29

IMHO Internet forums are places to vent frustrastion LittleBlue Mar 2015 #39

Interesting point about the sports forums BainsBane Mar 2015 #87

If it really makes you sick Caretha Mar 2015 #85

Could you show where 'it's clear that a number of people on this site ..... prefer to see sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #36

Oh come now. There are links too numerous to mention that include faithful DUers who say just that Hekate Mar 2015 #43

Then it should be easy to link to some of them. So, what do YOU think about our 'proxy wars' sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #58

I see you didn't get a reply. R. P. McMurphy Mar 2015 #118

Do your own research, dear. Hekate Mar 2015 #140

Pssst. I was talking about you. R. P. McMurphy Mar 2015 #143

Yes, I would like to keep the discussion on the ISSUES. But apparently that is not sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #174

So when you insist BainsBane Mar 2015 #192

This message was self-deleted by its author BainsBane Mar 2015 #190

The fact that Clinton is the only candidate her detractors focus on BainsBane Mar 2015 #45

Links please, to my 'going on for years' about CLINTON. If you meant 'policies' that's entirely sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #66

This constant demanding of links is really tiresome. BainsBane Mar 2015 #185

I will. Rex Mar 2015 #38

You're in Texas BainsBane Mar 2015 #47

So does that mean you are not going to vote? Rex Mar 2015 #52

Where did she suggest, imply, or state that? DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #56

"I voted in Texas, and my presidential vote meant squat. The electors go to the GOP" Rex Mar 2015 #60

I'm not in Texas anymore BainsBane Mar 2015 #92

Good. IMO a person has no right to gripe about politics if they don't vote. Rex Mar 2015 #96

Also Bush dramatically influenced my view of electoral politics BainsBane Mar 2015 #98

I hear that, anyone that is not scared to death of Jeb Bush or Ted Cruz Rex Mar 2015 #99

With all the self appointed philosopher kings and queens on this site... DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #51

But this begs the question of why nominate someone with so much baggage. It's as if rhett o rick Mar 2015 #54

Why don't you work to put someone up? BainsBane Mar 2015 #64

It's not the work of the GOP LWolf Mar 2015 #62

Res ipsa loquitur DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #71

Where did you get that? BainsBane Mar 2015 #72

political compass.org DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #74

Res ipsa loquitur (REDUX) DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #76

The problem with that chart Mnpaul Mar 2015 #100

I agree, it put Obama a tick away from Mitt in the 2012 election. Rex Mar 2015 #104

That is not the chart I'm referring to Mnpaul Mar 2015 #112

The entire political debate is in the same space so no sense in discussing any of it, right? TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #89

Interesting numbers, check this out. The 2012 election according to that website. Rex Mar 2015 #93

Did you read what it said below that chart? Mnpaul Mar 2015 #110

Well if their chart is off by that much then yes I can to an extent. Rex Mar 2015 #115

What do you base your assertion on? Mnpaul Mar 2015 #124

Obamacare is one of the differences imo. Also his hiring of more minorities than any prior WH Rex Mar 2015 #133

Mandatory corporate healthcare Mnpaul Mar 2015 #136

BTW, I am curious where you would put Obama, Clinton, and Warren on a ideological plane or circle. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #142

I would say the chart in #71 is pretty accurate Mnpaul Mar 2015 #147

I took both tests...The latter test said I was a tad bit closer to Clinton than Sanders DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #148

That was the point of my response. If the grouping means it is an irrelevant debate of minor details TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #169

No, but if a person doesn't like Candidate X even though he or shares the same ideological space... DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #107

Again, almost the entire political debate is in the same area and an area few of us share TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #167

The research indicates that the candidates do cluster together with the national Democrats... DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #170

The differences are all marginal, why are you focusing on marginal differences only a moment later TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #173

I don't see anyone on DU "doing the work for the GOP". delrem Mar 2015 #73

Only they place all responsibility for it onto Clinton BainsBane Mar 2015 #80

I don't agree. Progressives do indeed see a systemic problem! nt delrem Mar 2015 #82

The fact that Ms. Clinton, Mr. Obama, and Ms. Warren all fall in roughly the same place... DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #84

Ms. Warren isn't third-way. delrem Mar 2015 #91

An examination of the issues that tries to accurately capture what it attempts to measure ... DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #102

Ms. Warren isn't third-way. nt delrem Mar 2015 #113

If you believe there are substantive differences and not stylistic or rhetorical... DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #120

Your denial of a basic fact demonstrates one of the points that I made in my post. delrem Mar 2015 #128

You replied directly to me and I replied directly to you. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #138

Regarding American military adventures, Art_from_Ark Mar 2015 #191

Your eye sight is excellent Caretha Mar 2015 #90

I don't care for Hillary, but fully agree... awoke_in_2003 Mar 2015 #77

We agree on something. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #78

Twice in a year BainsBane Mar 2015 #86

Here's how I voted for Prez, from bad ol' TX: blkmusclmachine Mar 2015 #95

My first vote was for Bill Clinton and I was proud to do it a second time! Rex Mar 2015 #101

You were proud to vote for Bill Clinton twice BainsBane Mar 2015 #188

You must be talking to someone else, I've said a million times I will vote for her Rex Mar 2015 #193

Excuse me BainsBane Mar 2015 #197

SIGH. I will vote for whomever wins the primaries. Rex Mar 2015 #199

This OP is rude? BainsBane Mar 2015 #220

OKAY DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #127

From Blue CT bigwillq Mar 2015 #172

I'm voting for the next Supreme Court picker. calimary Mar 2015 #106

You're going to be in for a long primary. morningfog Mar 2015 #109

complaining about Dems passing GOP policies = helping GOP MisterP Mar 2015 #116

What policies did Clinton pass BainsBane Mar 2015 #130

The IWR? Warren DeMontague Mar 2015 #153

She voted for it BainsBane Mar 2015 #154

I don't see her as the Devil incarnate. I'll definitely vote for her if she's the nominee. Warren DeMontague Mar 2015 #157

The inevitability argument is bullshit BainsBane Mar 2015 #189

" We get it." - who is "We"? Warren DeMontague Mar 2015 #152

We all will. This is how we do things. herding cats Mar 2015 #155

Who are you and what have you done with BainsBane? Fumesucker Mar 2015 #159

It's becoming increasingly difficult to vote while holding nose and carrying barf bag. hobbit709 Mar 2015 #162

You're in Texas BainsBane Mar 2015 #163

Inevitable Hillary will defeat herself, as she did against Barack Obama in 2008. closeupready Mar 2015 #166

"A dream is a wish the heart makes." DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #176

... closeupready Mar 2015 #177

... DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #179

... closeupready Mar 2015 #180

Thank you. Never underestimate the power of the truth./NT DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #182

You're not the first person to predict a loss BainsBane Mar 2015 #187

Past performance is a good predictor of future performance. She lost. Predicting another loss closeupready Mar 2015 #195

She lost the nomination. The Democrats won the presidency. BainsBane Mar 2015 #198

Oh, okay - so you're gonna spin her loss as, in reality, a win! LOL closeupready Mar 2015 #203

You've lost track of the argument BainsBane Mar 2015 #233

Okay, I'm done, but I'd love to see Elizabeth Warren, or Sanders, closeupready Mar 2015 #243

PPpffffffttt! Rex Mar 2015 #237

It can be a point of vulnerability, I know. closeupready Mar 2015 #242

Thank you. I intend to. Comrade Grumpy Mar 2015 #183

Thanks for permission to do exactly what I will do anyway. 99Forever Mar 2015 #194

If you're not going to read a few sentences of an OP BainsBane Mar 2015 #196

Bull. 99Forever Mar 2015 #207

It says what it says BainsBane Mar 2015 #218

Bull. 99Forever Mar 2015 #221

Okay, how's this BainsBane Mar 2015 #222

No bait for me thanks. 99Forever Mar 2015 #223

I was just trying to make you feel better BainsBane Mar 2015 #224

No you weren't. 99Forever Mar 2015 #225

I'm playing with you, obviously BainsBane Mar 2015 #226

No you don't. 99Forever Mar 2015 #227

Oh, dear BainsBane Mar 2015 #228

You aren't sweet at all. 99Forever Mar 2015 #229

Tsk Tsk BainsBane Mar 2015 #231

Yes you are. 99Forever Mar 2015 #232

Okay, recess is over BainsBane Mar 2015 #234

Couldn't go without a personal insult, could you? 99Forever Mar 2015 #235

IKR!? Rex Mar 2015 #200

This is a pattern... 99Forever Mar 2015 #208

It is pathetic to watch, but predictable from a select few here. Rex Mar 2015 #236

What was this? BainsBane Mar 2015 #217

A. why is this the first I am seeing this thread and B. how is it not hidden yet? NoJusticeNoPeace Mar 2015 #201

In matters of conscience, the law of majority has no place. Gandhi Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2015 #210

How does that address my OP? BainsBane Mar 2015 #211

Gandhi was Republican? Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2015 #212

Then you see nothing BainsBane Mar 2015 #213

Oh, well.... Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2015 #214

Yeah, still nothing about the what you stand for BainsBane Mar 2015 #215