I don't think you understand the meaning of ad hominem. And I only looked at the first two (Reply #35)

In the discussion thread: MoJo: What Did Monsanto Show Bill Nye to Make Him Fall "in Love" With GMOs? [View all]

Wed Mar 11, 2015, 10:24 PM

ND-Dem (4,571 posts)

35. I don't think you understand the meaning of ad hominem. And I only looked at the first two

authors of the paper. Shall I look at the rest?

A Circumstantial ad Hominem is a fallacy because a person’s interests and circumstances have no bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made...

There are times when it is prudent to suspicious of a person’s claims, such as when it is evident that the claims are being biased by the person’s interests. For example, if a tobacco company representative claims that tobacco does not cause cancer, it would be prudent to not simply accept the claim. This is because the person has a motivation to make the claim, whether it is true or not. However, the mere fact that the person has a motivation to make the claim does not make it false.

So while noting that at least one of the authors of the paper has ties to Monsanto doesn't prove the paper is false (which, you'll note, I didn't claim), it does give the public reason to be suspicious.

Now, shall I look at the rest of the authors?

As for that paper: what is the ground-breaking claim you think should have been refuted, and what relation does it have to the herbicide ROUND-UP (and thus, indirectly, GM crops) killing Monarch habitat (and thus Monarchs)?

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124 replies	Author	Time	Post
MoJo: What Did Monsanto Show Bill Nye to Make Him Fall "in Love" With GMOs? [View all]	99th_Monkey	Mar 2015	OP
might just be ideology--he's also saying there's that "STEM shortage"	MisterP	Mar 2015	#1
really? i think he's gone over to the dark side. too bad. i used to like him on seattle tv.	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#2
not quite "dark side," don't worry!--but he's a hydraulic engineer and impresario,	MisterP	Mar 2015	#4
Ah, I see. He's got a BA in mechanical engineering. The "science guy" is an engineer. And	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#37
Easy there....	Adrahil	Mar 2015	#122
And I have an MS in a science (more closely related to this topic than nye's) and	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#123
I imagine a huge salad of 50's and 100's	roguevalley	Mar 2015	#79
"which have been linked pretty decisively to the decline of monarch butterflies"	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#3
It's easier to rant and rave than realize that farmers are trying to grow as much food as possible.	HuckleB	Mar 2015	#5
Oh baloney. The US pays farmers not to grow food to keep prices up, and the only reason	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#38
Keep ranting.	HuckleB	Mar 2015	#67
You don't want to discuss with me because you can't refute the truth. All you have are canned	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#78
#Irony.	HuckleB	Mar 2015	#80
refute it then. without studies from people affiliated with monsanto.	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#85
That's been done with you.	HuckleB	Mar 2015	#86
ditto, huckleberry.	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#88
To get a sense why the monarch butterflies are in decline, I called Lincoln Brower, a professor of	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#9
So what's the alternative?	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#11
The alternative to what? The scientist says that Roundup is the primary cause of Monarch	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#13
I'll make it simple for you	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#15
Is that 'simple"? You seem to be saying that without GM & Roundup, something worse for	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#17
It works both ways	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#21
first i want to make sure that that is indeed you argument. as for your pirate chart, it's	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#22
I've already read everything you're parroting	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#29
so you're not even going to tell me if that is indeed what your claim is, that if there weren't	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#31
You have it exactly backwards	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#39
No more misleading than your claim that corn production has 'skyrocketed,' especially	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#41
Series?	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#44
"Increased" doesn't = "Skyrocketed". And if it increased because a big corporation lobbied	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#46
That seems like it's more to do with monocultural swaths of land	Marr	Mar 2015	#18
"Genetically engineered crops have increased food output exponentially"	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#33
Fine, let us just say "greatly increased food production" then.	Marr	Mar 2015	#34
Well, I'd say you'd get an argument if you claim GM crops have "greatly increased food production".	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#36
I think I'd win the argument. Norman Borlaug's work alone increased the output of	Marr	Mar 2015	#43
The Green Revolution was 40s-60s, which is what you're referring to. Borlaug didnt do	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#45
Here's one work on the subject from a person with credentials.	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#56
Hmm-- some interesting information there.	Marr	Mar 2015	#57
"Particularly the part about genetically modified crops being unavailable...	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#60
Huh-- now I can't find it. It must've been in one of the	Marr	Mar 2015	#66
thanks.	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#77
Hardly "destroyed". It said the only variety of GM that would cause a problem is one being phased	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#10
Ad hominem, seriously?	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#19
I don't think you understand the meaning of ad hominem. And I only looked at the first two	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#35
So why did you even bother to bring it up in the first place?	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#40
Why did I bother to bring what up? Pointing out that some scientists have interests that	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#42
Something really green I bet...	ananda	Mar 2015	#6
Haha.. well played	Hutzpa	Mar 2015	#7
Must have eaten some Monsanto corns	Hutzpa	Mar 2015	#8
Evidence	FLPanhandle	Mar 2015	#12
so what was the evidence? i believe that was the original question.	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#14
+1,000,000 ... 000	HuckleB	Mar 2015	#20
Here you go.	DeSwiss	Mar 2015	#52
One picture is not evidence.	FLPanhandle	Mar 2015	#58
Bill Nye and I share something...	Archae	Mar 2015	#16
Wow.........	Logical	Mar 2015	#23
"Nova" is one of the better TV shows, always has been.	Archae	Mar 2015	#24
I did an eight grade oral report on the Bermuda Triangle.	zappaman	Mar 2015	#27
So true! nt	Logical	Mar 2015	#30
Do you also share a BS in Mechanical Engineering? That's the sum total of his science experience.	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#47
It's better than...	Archae	Mar 2015	#49
Certainly. But it's not a degree that gives Nye any relevant qualification to judge the	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#50
Tenuous Position ND	ProfessorGAC	Mar 2015	#59
Certainly a BS in Engineering gives him the right to an opinion, and a general knowledge of	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#61
Then We Still Disagree	ProfessorGAC	Mar 2015	#63
I also have a science degree: at a higher level, and more relevant than nye's. i've done	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#64
You keep making this claim, but you keep showing that you don't understand the issue at all.	HuckleB	Mar 2015	#68
where do you find these people? wingnuts funded by the kochs and monsanto	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#89
Oh, brother.	HuckleB	Mar 2015	#96
If you want to use Koch & Monsanto-linked sources, be prepared to be called on it.	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#98
You can connect almost anything to anything.	HuckleB	Mar 2015	#101
no, you owe me an apology.	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#103
The lack of shame is astounding.	HuckleB	Mar 2015	#104
can't stand the heat, eh? your koch references don't hold up to scrutiny eh	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#124
And?	ProfessorGAC	Mar 2015	#69
someone can posit an opinion anytime they want. doesn't mean their opinion is	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#90
"Do you also share a BS in Mechanical Engineering? That's the sum total of his science experience."	NCTraveler	Mar 2015	#106
No, it's the truth. A BS Eng. and some experience working at & consulting with	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#112
Understood.	NCTraveler	Mar 2015	#121
They fed him Experiment #703?	Rex	Mar 2015	#25
Uh oh...	GaltFreeDiet	Mar 2015	#84
Movies are so cool.	HuckleB	Mar 2015	#87
Facts and evidence.	Agnosticsherbet	Mar 2015	#26
I'm guessing it was scientific evidence.	bravenak	Mar 2015	#28
I would love to hear the evidence that changed Nye's mind	booley	Mar 2015	#32
Nye has a BS in Mechanical Engineering. He worked at Boeing after he graduated, before	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#48
NYE is a science advocate	booley	Mar 2015	#71
If you follow the evidence...	HuckleB	Mar 2015	#72
Uhh are you sure about that?	booley	Mar 2015	#74
It appears that you don't understand the topic very well at all.	HuckleB	Mar 2015	#82
right, no one understands the topic very well except the guy who keeps putting	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#91
Lots of people understand the topic.	HuckleB	Mar 2015	#97
ooh, 'despicable' eh? ironic.	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#100
No irony. Reality.	HuckleB	Mar 2015	#102
This thread isn't about Vandana shiva, and you're the only one who brought her into it.	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#114
A fat check perhaps ?	CentralMass	Mar 2015	#51
It's either cash, power or sex.	DeSwiss	Mar 2015	#53
Or, you know, evidence.	NuclearDem	Mar 2015	#65
They've been trying to assimilate him to the borg for awhile. I guess they were	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#93
Um, I'm vegan and both eat and have no issues with GMOs.	NuclearDem	Mar 2015	#94
and do you eat organic as well?	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#95
Not generally, because the label "organic" doesn't equate to healthier foods.	NuclearDem	Mar 2015	#107
bill nye thinks it does.	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#108
Good for him, but I'm my own man and can make my own decisions based on the evidence.	NuclearDem	Mar 2015	#109
and him eating organic when organic is 'meaningless' doesn't bring his reliability	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#111
I don't know why he eats organic. And frankly, I don't care.	NuclearDem	Mar 2015	#113
nye the scientist loves organics (which many of our resident DU scientists think =	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#115
Again, I don't know why he eats organic foods.	NuclearDem	Mar 2015	#116
it's only a fallacy if you claim his inconsistency proves his position must be wrong. which	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#118
I'm done here.	NuclearDem	Mar 2015	#119
bye	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#120
Youse can have the check or youse can leave. Now youse can't leave	Monk06	Mar 2015	#54
Interestingly, my guess was that Nye was vegetarian or vegan, because he has 'the look'.	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#55
Debate will continue until all results of putting these gene changes into the environment can be	mmonk	Mar 2015	#62
You have never advocated for "truth in labeling," just demonization via labeling.	HuckleB	Mar 2015	#70
How is it demonization?	booley	Mar 2015	#73
You don't?	HuckleB	Mar 2015	#81
easy... Monsatin converted him into a Genetically Modified Organism.	Kip Humphrey	Mar 2015	#75
What could account for such a change? That's some photo of employees with a faux Bill Bow Tie.	appalachiablue	Mar 2015	#76
So you think Bill is a big sucker!	HuckleB	Mar 2015	#83
Ha, ha. Not a big sucker, far from it. He seems like a person who knows just what he's doing.	appalachiablue	Mar 2015	#110
They've apparently been wooing him for some time.	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#92
Proof he’s the Science Guy: Bill Nye is changing his mind about GMOs	HuckleB	Mar 2015	#99
The anti-GM lobby appears to be taking a page out of the Climategate playbook	HuckleB	Mar 2015	#105
...	ND-Dem	Mar 2015	#117

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