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In reply to the discussion: To Believe Julian Assange, You Must Believe Israel Shamir, Vicious Anti-Semite and Liar. [View all]freshwest
(53,661 posts)95. GT's post made me google. From AlJazeera:
Julian Assange, Ecuador, and the Belarus connection
A rights group is demanding WikiLeaks reply to claims it gave intelligence on dissidents to the Belarusian regime.
By Bill Weinberg - 08 Sep 2012
...In unrest following the evidently stolen elections of December 2010, strongman Lukashenko (ruling since 1994) had over 600 protesters and dissidents rounded up. Some were tortured, and the campaign to win their release brought courageous "silent protesters" repeatedly to the streets. The affair won Belarus the opprobrium of the UN Human Rights Commissioner, EU, US State Department and global rights groups, but (happily for Lukashenko) few international headlines.
Last year, the free-press advocacy group Index on Censorship cited evidence that WikiLeaks' "accredited" representative in Belarus, Israel Shamir, may have provided the Lukashenko regime with intelligence from US diplomatic cables to help determine who to round up. Lukashenko boasted in the state-controlled media of receiving WikiLeaks intelligence that revealed who was "working behind the scenes" in the December protests. Shamir was meanwhile boasting claims on CounterPunch website that WikiLeaks cables provided "proof positive" the protests were "orchestrated" by the State Department. (The "proof positive" consisted of some indications of a US AID contractor's involvement in money smuggling.)
Did Shamir turn over WikiLeaks cables to Lukashenko that "named names" of activists identified or cultivated by the State Department? Index on Censorship queried WikiLeaks on the issue, submitting a list of questions about what material WikiLeaks or Shamir may have provided the Lukasheno regime, and Shamir's official status in the WikiLeaks organisation. One WikiLeaks representative responded tersely: "We have no further reports on this 'rumour/issue'." Another told Index: "Obviously it is not approved."
Adding to the controversy, Israel Shamir is a notorious and obsessive Anti-Semite. The charge of anti-Semitism is of course often used unfairly against critics of Israel - but even Palestine solidarity activists have issued denouncements of Shamir, warning that association with him could hurt the movement. Shamir's website avidly promotes Holocaust revisionists, and runs such non-ironic headlines as "Down With Human Rights" and "In Defense of Prejudice" - this in response to protests of Shamir's references to war-mongering "Jewish media-lords". Lukashenko, perhaps not coincidentally, has also used ugly Jew-baiting rhetoric against the opposition movement...
But with Lukashenko's boasts (and Shamir's clear enthusiasm for Lukashenko) the Belarus case may go beyond mere WikiLeaks "blowback" to active collaboration with repression. The lack of concern with this question by WikiLeaks' advocates on the left raises questions about a single-standard commitment to human rights...
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/09/20129410312450511.html
There is a lot of back and forth there in the article. It's worth the read. What has struck me is the value of ideology over the value of the lives of people. These are Ron and Rand Paul supporters, that is, Libertarians, and we have learned their opinion on most of us here. Including women and minorities. Even if want to forgive, for our safety, we can't forget our lives mean nothing to their version of how the world should be, which does not allow us a voice.
Another piece:
Julian Assange and Europe's Last Dictator
The former WikiLeaks chief will moderate a public discussion about Belarus, despite damaging the cause
by Kapil Komireddi - March 2012
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2012/03/belarus-assange-lukashenko
You can see two belief systems, one of which is called the Cult of Julian Assange, playing there. In the meantime, some rather inconsequential people have decided to stay out of political life for fear of the survelliance state in place there. Where some have been tortured. This is the real thing going on there.
A rights group is demanding WikiLeaks reply to claims it gave intelligence on dissidents to the Belarusian regime.
By Bill Weinberg - 08 Sep 2012
...In unrest following the evidently stolen elections of December 2010, strongman Lukashenko (ruling since 1994) had over 600 protesters and dissidents rounded up. Some were tortured, and the campaign to win their release brought courageous "silent protesters" repeatedly to the streets. The affair won Belarus the opprobrium of the UN Human Rights Commissioner, EU, US State Department and global rights groups, but (happily for Lukashenko) few international headlines.
Last year, the free-press advocacy group Index on Censorship cited evidence that WikiLeaks' "accredited" representative in Belarus, Israel Shamir, may have provided the Lukashenko regime with intelligence from US diplomatic cables to help determine who to round up. Lukashenko boasted in the state-controlled media of receiving WikiLeaks intelligence that revealed who was "working behind the scenes" in the December protests. Shamir was meanwhile boasting claims on CounterPunch website that WikiLeaks cables provided "proof positive" the protests were "orchestrated" by the State Department. (The "proof positive" consisted of some indications of a US AID contractor's involvement in money smuggling.)
Did Shamir turn over WikiLeaks cables to Lukashenko that "named names" of activists identified or cultivated by the State Department? Index on Censorship queried WikiLeaks on the issue, submitting a list of questions about what material WikiLeaks or Shamir may have provided the Lukasheno regime, and Shamir's official status in the WikiLeaks organisation. One WikiLeaks representative responded tersely: "We have no further reports on this 'rumour/issue'." Another told Index: "Obviously it is not approved."
Adding to the controversy, Israel Shamir is a notorious and obsessive Anti-Semite. The charge of anti-Semitism is of course often used unfairly against critics of Israel - but even Palestine solidarity activists have issued denouncements of Shamir, warning that association with him could hurt the movement. Shamir's website avidly promotes Holocaust revisionists, and runs such non-ironic headlines as "Down With Human Rights" and "In Defense of Prejudice" - this in response to protests of Shamir's references to war-mongering "Jewish media-lords". Lukashenko, perhaps not coincidentally, has also used ugly Jew-baiting rhetoric against the opposition movement...
But with Lukashenko's boasts (and Shamir's clear enthusiasm for Lukashenko) the Belarus case may go beyond mere WikiLeaks "blowback" to active collaboration with repression. The lack of concern with this question by WikiLeaks' advocates on the left raises questions about a single-standard commitment to human rights...
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/09/20129410312450511.html
There is a lot of back and forth there in the article. It's worth the read. What has struck me is the value of ideology over the value of the lives of people. These are Ron and Rand Paul supporters, that is, Libertarians, and we have learned their opinion on most of us here. Including women and minorities. Even if want to forgive, for our safety, we can't forget our lives mean nothing to their version of how the world should be, which does not allow us a voice.
Another piece:
Julian Assange and Europe's Last Dictator
The former WikiLeaks chief will moderate a public discussion about Belarus, despite damaging the cause
by Kapil Komireddi - March 2012
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2012/03/belarus-assange-lukashenko
You can see two belief systems, one of which is called the Cult of Julian Assange, playing there. In the meantime, some rather inconsequential people have decided to stay out of political life for fear of the survelliance state in place there. Where some have been tortured. This is the real thing going on there.
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To Believe Julian Assange, You Must Believe Israel Shamir, Vicious Anti-Semite and Liar. [View all]
msanthrope
Mar 2015
OP
You are welcome. It really is a very simple issue--either you believe that there's a worldwide
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#7
Nah, msanthrope is reporting on what is happening with Julian Assange right now.. if you choose to
Cha
Mar 2015
#157
Rape is a felony in Sweden, and that's what the women accused him or raping them. Forcible sex
pnwmom
Mar 2015
#179
Thank you for all your work putting this together. Those women deserve their day in court. n/t
pnwmom
Mar 2015
#178
I think the term "concierge justice" was used to describe the treatment some here
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#198
So sad, too. That people slurp up 1960s era propaganda. Thank Hank I had parents that taught me to
Luminous Animal
Mar 2015
#100
True>>> Exclusive New Docs Throw Doubt on Julian Assange Rape Charges in Stockholm
avaistheone1
Jul 2016
#250
What a desperate jumbled stinking pile of non sequiturs, drivel logic, and false dichotomies.
GoneFishin
Mar 2015
#3
He is a disgusting individual who has pulled the wool over the eyes of a lot of
Matterate
Mar 2015
#4
Don't read any Polanski rape apologia threads on here. They are vomit inducing. nt
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#6
I'm of the opinion that repeated linkage to certain types of sources indicates that you share those
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#9
That's why I don't bother to attack the messenger, but try to understand the message.
Octafish
Mar 2015
#40
Being a proven liar does diminish the probability you should be believed. Being an anti-Semite does,
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#16
I didn't discuss that in the OP Octa. I discussed the charges against him. And I'm not in a court
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#55
Who are you to decide that the women who accuse Assange should not see justice? nt
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#134
Absolutely.....I've had clients who point that out. Of course, as a criminal defense
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#145
You made a judgment about what "matters more." Who are you to judge that? nt
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#146
"Matters more for US democracy." It's like A Tribe Called Qwest, you say the whole thing
Scootaloo
Mar 2015
#153
with this crap you have him tried, convicted, sentenced and evidently want him drawn and quartered
hobbit709
Mar 2015
#13
Well, either you believe Assange's honeypot defense, or you don't. Do you, or don't you? nt
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#17
Even Assange's own defense? Wikileaks put forth this defense....and it's proven false. That
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#22
I found the claims difficult to believe due to the timing of the allegations
LittleBlue
Mar 2015
#34
I wouldn't assume she has a strong case against Assange. In fact, I would say he stands an
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#38
Probably. My confusion comes from the fact that the prosecutor says she could have
LittleBlue
Mar 2015
#56
This brought up an additional question that I thought you could answer for me
LittleBlue
Mar 2015
#140
I think Assange is basically a coward. I've had guilty clients fuck up completely minor sentencing
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#143
Indeed. Sentence first, trial later. And the ad hominem argument to discredit Assange's proven revelations is classic.
Fred Sanders
Mar 2015
#31
Israel Shamir is a Neo-Nazi piece of shit, and Assange's choice to associate with Neo-Nazi trash
geek tragedy
Mar 2015
#20
Really a Neo-Nazi who wrote for Haaretz? Oooooh kay. And ya know, I do not agree with
Luminous Animal
Mar 2015
#93
Can you cite anything he actually wrote for Haaretz? Rationalwiki cannot substantiate many of his
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#131
Counterpunch is left-wing, Zorra....and had no problem publishing the honeypot defense.
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#26
Well...how many are bail-jumping fugitives living in an Embassy and having press conferences?
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#71
"The DU right.."? Lame attempt to smear, Z. Assange gets facts reported on him and you call it
Cha
Mar 2015
#147
Yes, Precisely.. they're really quick with their personal insults.. that's all they have while
Cha
Mar 2015
#162
There is, very clearly, a DU right. It's not a smear, it's a stone cold fact. nt
Zorra
Mar 2015
#235
No, it's not a fact that those who disagree with you about assange are on the right. And, it's an a
Cha
Mar 2015
#242
Her blather reminds me of all the propaganda that I heard against civil rights activists in the 60s.
Luminous Animal
Mar 2015
#97
So Shamir, the liar, is to be believed over Wikileaks own spokesman, Kristinn Hrafnsson, who
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#114
She accuses you of "blather".. while "blathering".. lol they all have their thumbs in their
Cha
Mar 2015
#155
I miss HiPointDem on threads like this, don't you? I remember the time HiPointDem
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#205
Since when is it right-wing to support women being taken seriously when they make claims of rape
pnwmom
Mar 2015
#183
This is so obviously a false dichotomy that I will use it when I teach critical thinking.
Vattel
Mar 2015
#24
Is that what you think? The charges are false but not part of a CIA plot? Why do you not believe
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#35
What do you think of a defendant who flees the jurisdiction, and then has an employee put out such a
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#46
I didn't present a false dichotomy, Vattel.....I presented an uncomfortable moral question
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#58
Check out this piece I just found when I google Shamir and Assange.. two peas in pod..
Cha
Mar 2015
#189
I'm asking you if you speak for that poster. How do you know what is in their mind? nt
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#87
They have nothing.. so they resort to attacking with personal insults. Quite pathetic actually
Cha
Mar 2015
#164
right, that's what i said and that's certainly logical my you've outdone yourself
ND-Dem
Mar 2015
#184
Assange's character is not important to me. The crimes he exposed are. Any comment on the crimes?
Scuba
Mar 2015
#47
That's something for Swedish authorities to pursue, if they have sufficient evidence. However ...
Scuba
Mar 2015
#202
Nice try, but that's a fail. I made no reference to any alleged victims being short-shrifted.
Scuba
Mar 2015
#214
We have at least four separate issues going on. I will try to disentangle them.
DemocratSinceBirth
Mar 2015
#54
I find that to be an incredibly offensive characterization of victims of sexual assault.
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#73
So what happened to them....the forcible acts described in EAW, is not "real rape?" nt
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#81
A "mere sex crime" "real rape?" I find it interesting that you don't actually address the acts
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#96
Unbelievable. I must say, this thread has certainly been very enlightening.
NYC Liberal
Mar 2015
#108
glad someone alerted on that one. It was every bit as offensive. Thanks, Cha
Tuesday Afternoon
Mar 2015
#158
Yes--you seem to be claiming that Shamir is being "smeared." How does one smear a
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#133
How does one smear Assange on this point? Israel Shamir--and his son, work for Wikileaks.
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#144
How does one smear Assange on this point? Was he unable to work the Google?
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#169
You would think Assange would google a prospective employee, right? I mean, this is the guy
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#174
"Julian Assange Backs Ron and Rand Paul".. yeah, I'd say assange is something.. backing racist
Cha
Mar 2015
#194
Forget Your Team: Your Online Violence Toward Girls and Women Is What Can Kiss My Ass.. more
Cha
Mar 2015
#196
And that's what so many here are trying to avoid...the "smear" of Assange is nothing
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#199
"Assange and Shamir have been friends for years".. and Shamir is going for the testoserone defense.
Cha
Mar 2015
#201
I haven't found a single reason to impugn the credibility of the victims. If you have, please share
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#120
Extradition where, Manny? To the US? Then why didn't we extradite him from the UK when he was
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#149
Given that Ed Snowden was allowed to grab virtually everything from the NSA
MannyGoldstein
Mar 2015
#167
Assange was on bail for two years, living in the English countryside. Are you saying the
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#175
How does one smear a Holocaust-denying anti-Semite? I'm still waiting for you to
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#150
You post this fully knowing I already said I wasn't talking about smearing Shamir.
Hissyspit
Mar 2015
#168
"Bad associate decisions" is what we are calling hiring and keeping Israel Shamir and his son?
msanthrope
Mar 2015
#171
Do you think the women who have accused him of rape deserve their day in court? n/t
pnwmom
Mar 2015
#181
Assange shouldn't have credibility anyway. After he was essentially forced to reveal he lied about
stevenleser
Mar 2015
#246
Colbert (one of my few genuine heroes of this age) had Assange's number early on.
randome
Oct 2016
#255