General Discussion

uppityperson

(116,005 posts)

52. 2 points. The "human being" definition. Eclampsia.

Thu May 3, 2012, 12:09 PM

May 2012

If a fetus without a brain is "NOT a human being", then at what point does a developing fetus become a "human being"? Also, is this the point where you are ok with abortions?

2nd point. Eclampsia kills women. This is why we pee in the cup, get our bloodpressure taken, be checked for other things throughout our pregnancies.

Sometimes women get pre-eclampsia and will be monitored. However, the change can happen suddenly.

It can happen suddenly, suddenly go bad. Blood pressure spikes, leading to strokes or heart attacks. Kidneys fail, leading to, well, kidney failure. Seizures happen, leading to brain damage. In rare cases, this happens and no, there is no time to use pit, no ability for her body to deal with the added stressors of labor.

It can happen suddenly, suddenly become an emergency situation. Rather like having a heart attack can happen suddenly to a person who had no clue it might be an issue. Emergencies happen.

And of course, once a fetus is viable, it becomes even more complicated.

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Georgia Governor Approves Ban On Abortions After 20 Weeks With No Exception For Rape Or Incest [View all] ProSense May 2012 OP

So that 11 year old who was raped has to carry to term. Lars39 May 2012 #1

No - it is not making abortion illegal (yet) Ruby the Liberal May 2012 #3

MY friend was raped at 11 years old HockeyMom May 2012 #4

The abortion debate will never be solved with demagoguery lacrew May 2012 #6

Chip, chip, chip get the red out May 2012 #7

Good grief! ProSense May 2012 #8

Post removed Post removed May 2012 #12

So what ProSense May 2012 #14

Actually no lacrew May 2012 #24

BS. laundry_queen May 2012 #66

Ah...BS lacrew May 2012 #80

And..BS uppityperson May 2012 #83

Since you have called somebody's opinion 'BS' lacrew May 2012 #87

Huh, let me quote you "Ah...BS". That wasn't calling someone's opinion BS? Another sad misunderstand uppityperson May 2012 #100

I was quoting Laundry_queens well detailed response to me lacrew May 2012 #113

You continue to use "live" & "alive" as qualifiers yet refuse to define the terms. uppityperson May 2012 #121

LOL, like 'BS' is name calling laundry_queen May 2012 #88

Yes, I am ok with 20 weeks being the limit lacrew May 2012 #94

I have not read Roe v wade laundry_queen May 2012 #98

"a fetus as early as 24 weeks is protected, and has rights which should be compared with the mother' uppityperson May 2012 #103

That's my line....wasn't in quotes, don't know why you think it is one lacrew May 2012 #115

More to the point anti-abortion laws go beyond the rights stripped Johonny May 2012 #39

The problem is not imaginary lacrew May 2012 #89

She has a choice - why in the name of God would she wait 20 weeks to make it??? adigal May 2012 #45

I know the poster you are replying to said "11 yr old" but you continue to use that age in saying uppityperson May 2012 #17

11 year old lacrew May 2012 #26

Did you mean to say "fetus"? nt TBF May 2012 #21

I would bet no n/t obamanut2012 May 2012 #27

Yup, my point exactly. nt TBF May 2012 #28

I will probably agree more with you when: LadyHawkAZ May 2012 #10

Fair points lacrew May 2012 #13

"an unknown pregnancy from rape or incest"? What? Why "unknown"? Is this law for only "unknown" pre uppityperson May 2012 #18

The unknown part comes from the deadline lacrew May 2012 #22

But ProSense May 2012 #25

Obviously we are not going to come to an agreement lacrew May 2012 #34

It is explained well here.... uppityperson May 2012 #40

I didn't get to declare my fetus on my tax return. :( I do have more rights and standing. uppityperson May 2012 #43

Thank you laundry_queen May 2012 #67

Post removed Post removed May 2012 #92

So you are using laundry_queen May 2012 #95

Why does his license statur matter lacrew May 2012 #112

I'm not going to engage you any further. laundry_queen May 2012 #119

So you call 'bs' on me lacrew May 2012 #120

"an example of an illegal abortion mill". Exactly. What he was doing was illegal and what laws are uppityperson May 2012 #122

No lacrew May 2012 #93

Wtf? uppityperson May 2012 #102

You completely miss the point on Gosnell lacrew May 2012 #114

Your last sentence is why anti-choice people are beating us adigal May 2012 #48

Even at 39 week, I have more rights. Don't assume as much as you do about me or my opinions uppityperson May 2012 #50

Please don't label me either adigal May 2012 #56

Providing info on late abortions, not arguing whether an abortion involves killing a fetus. uppityperson May 2012 #61

oh dear. I hate to get into this one but cali May 2012 #127

I do have more rights than a fetus. Including in many cases, right to have life protected. uppityperson May 2012 #128

Starting at the bottom of the post: LadyHawkAZ May 2012 #85

Because you don't think this law affects very many people, it doesn't matter one way or the other? yardwork May 2012 #16

For some reason he is focusing on 11 yr olds that don't know they are pg until 20 weeks. uppityperson May 2012 #19

What I said lacrew May 2012 #23

I didn't call anybody pro-rapist, but I am appalled that you think something doesn't matter yardwork May 2012 #37

You are appalled because you are not reading what I am saying lacrew May 2012 #91

It looks like lacrew was banned Marzupialis May 2012 #130

That is very poor logic, basing all fertile raped/incested women on the subset of 11 yr old uppityperson May 2012 #20

i agree with u 2pooped2pop May 2012 #32

See my post #37. yardwork May 2012 #38

20 weeks is not viable... likesmountains 52 May 2012 #109

it is the medical definition 2pooped2pop May 2012 #116

so in other words you are anti-choice? maddezmom May 2012 #123

I agree with you 100% - as babies are born younger and younger adigal May 2012 #42

Sometimes a c-sect or vag delivery isn't possible, in rare cases. Serious pg related health issues uppityperson May 2012 #47

I believe most reasonable people would believe that a fetus without a brain adigal May 2012 #49

You might be surprised NickB79 May 2012 #51

Exactly and thank you for your civil and rational post. uppityperson May 2012 #53

I said reasonable - even very pro-life people saw Schiavo as dead adigal May 2012 #57

psst, there are very few people who say that. Most of us appreciate being able to get the health uppityperson May 2012 #63

2 points. The "human being" definition. Eclampsia. uppityperson May 2012 #52

So they kill the fetus, but still have to get it out of the woman adigal May 2012 #58

It isn't as risky. Labor is quite hard on the body. Some women have easier labor uppityperson May 2012 #62

Most anti-choicers aren't reasonable people. nt. Mariana May 2012 #82

Question: if a c-section or vaginal birth isn't possible, what do they do with the dead 39 week old adigal May 2012 #60

It's the pro-lifers who want the fetus to stay in the woman until they are both dead. yardwork May 2012 #64

An emergency c-section should be safe for the fetus adigal May 2012 #70

Because her health care providers have decided due to their extensive education and experience that uppityperson May 2012 #73

I think there is some misunderstanding here. yardwork May 2012 #75

Thank you. uppityperson May 2012 #77

And you didn't have an answer n/t adigal May 2012 #86

Sometimes it can be difficult to see who answers whom. You seem to have missed my answer. here... uppityperson May 2012 #99

After an abortion, the fetus may go to pathologist, or be cremated, or given for burial. uppityperson May 2012 #68

You are avoiding answering my question about abortion to save the mother adigal May 2012 #72

My apologies, I misunderstood. Because her health care providers have decided due to their extensive uppityperson May 2012 #74

You don't want to recognize that sometimes the baby dies, no matter how much everybody tries. yardwork May 2012 #76

"Because the woman doesn't want the baby. That is what I think." Have you ever been around a woman uppityperson May 2012 #79

I had a miscarriage myself, you sure like to scold adigal May 2012 #90

A miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion. Calling a highly offensive post highly offensive is "scold uppityperson May 2012 #101

The presence of other injuries causing heavy bleeding LadyHawkAZ May 2012 #110

But they are going to remove the fetus anyway adigal May 2012 #111

This article should answer your questions: Lars39 May 2012 #118

I believe I just covered that LadyHawkAZ May 2012 #131

Here ya go: the fetus is still living but not viable (as in, will not survive birth Gormy Cuss May 2012 #126

You said, Boudica the Lyoness May 2012 #54

Always interesting when a poster does a "I don't know about...but based on that I support..." CreekDog May 2012 #78

yes, it's probably a relatively small subset. Does that mean, that in YOUR mind, it's alright cali May 2012 #125

He's been sent back to freeperland. uppityperson May 2012 #129

no she can abort anytime before 5 months 2pooped2pop May 2012 #30

There's a good chance the pregnant child & the fetus would both die in childbirth. Lars39 May 2012 #46

I am so torn over this...she should tell someone, hopefully, adigal May 2012 #41

Just amazing. atreides1 May 2012 #2

The major sponsor of this bill was Athens' own representative Doug McKillip (AKA Douche McDickless). Erose999 May 2012 #5

In zombie like Nader speak. There is no difference between democrats and republicans. bluestate10 May 2012 #9

The REALLY nasty part of this bill is the so-called "compromise" for women whose fetus is non-viable NC_Nurse May 2012 #11

+1000 Liberal_in_LA May 2012 #55

But inflicting pain on children who seem to be gay is essential to good parenting. yardwork May 2012 #15

there does have to be a cutoff. 5 months is reasonable 2pooped2pop May 2012 #29

I don't think there's been a single one that survived Mariana May 2012 #31

well that was considered the age of viability 30 2pooped2pop May 2012 #33

There's never been a baby born at 20 weeks and survive. tammywammy May 2012 #35

not a lot of leeway there 2pooped2pop May 2012 #105

I suspect it shouldn't be hard to find many examples, then. Mariana May 2012 #81

provide ur own 2pooped2pop May 2012 #104

No way was that viable 30 years ago. I have been an NICU nurse since 1978 likesmountains 52 May 2012 #108

my data? 2pooped2pop May 2012 #117

" For some reason people on this site thinks everyone needs a sorce for fact". Well, yes, we do. uppityperson May 2012 #124

fuck that. Call it what you want n/t 2pooped2pop May 2012 #132

21 weeks per another poster. 2pooped2pop May 2012 #107

I think it's not your decision to make for others. tammywammy May 2012 #36

We make decisions about moral issues all of the time in the law adigal May 2012 #59

That was 1 of the basis of Roe v Wade. Making healthcare more equal regardless of money/power uppityperson May 2012 #65

And I am sure they still do it n/t adigal May 2012 #69

Unfortunately. Rather like the rich/powerful have indentured servants and do all sorts uppityperson May 2012 #71

And I agree with you completely and totally. hamsterjill May 2012 #84

the life of the mother has always taken 2pooped2pop May 2012 #106

Umm, that's what we have doctors for... Hippo_Tron May 2012 #96

din't all the farm workers leave Georgia because of a draconian law there? librechik May 2012 #44

God damn them!!! They don't need to overturn Roe V Wade - it's officially become moot. Initech May 2012 #97