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Savannahmann

(3,891 posts)
81. One problem I've always had with these arguments.
Mon Mar 23, 2015, 03:27 PM
Mar 2015

I'm not saying that the voting is valid and accurate and 100% above board and all that. I am saying the problem is the polling. Public Opinion Polls tend to fall within a certain range, and it is accomplished by phoning say two thousand people and asking them questions. Then they select a thousand of those people and weed out the remainder as unreliable. All of that is done statically and through a process that is always undergoing refinement.

Exit polling is done in the parking lot where you select some of the voters and ask them questions. In order to be statistically valid, it has to get a good sample of the public. You can kind of estimate that by asking people questions in every polling place, but they don't have enough people to do that, so they select certain polling places, and allow them to represent the whole. However, those polling places are but a snapshot of those districts, not necessarily the entire state.

With phone polls when you get an answer, it is looked at, considered, and then put on the back burner. You wait until you have more polls from other companies before you start to determine a trend. You wait because one poll is not enough of a look to see what is going on regarding public opinion. If you have three polls that say the people oppose Obamacare by ten points, and then one comes in and it reports that the people support it by a whopping twenty points, you don't jump for joy. You wait, and see if that trend continues. You wait because that one poll may be an outlier, an anomaly. Oh the results may be accurate, as far as it goes. Calls to geographic areas, but there is no way to be certain that you're getting an accurate sample. So you wait. If the next couple polls show that then you think there might be a trend.

I've been voting since 1988. I've voted in Southern California, in person. I've voted in Georgia, in person. I've voted in the last four Presidential elections, in person. I've voted in every mid term and special, in person. I've never seen a person asking questions after I voted. Not once. Does that mean that they were not asking questions in my state? No, but it does mean they were not asking at that time, and at that place.

To get an accurate sample, you would have to question just about every fifth person coming out of the polling place. Even then that does not take into account early voting, absentee ballots, and a host of other issues.

So exit polling to me, is rather inaccurate. It's interesting to see the numbers afterwards, and to see the results. But the polling is weighted. Let me explain what that means.

You are standing outside of the polling place. You know that the electorate is made up of about half women. So you make a point to question as many women as men. In the last election, you know that the district went Blue plus five. In other words Democrats won by five percentage points. So you begin there, you throw out excessive Republican votes because it does not fit the trend. You select your polling place because the results there mirrored the district average last time. That is no guarantee that the voters in that district are going to be an accurate sample of the rest of the district, or state. The district is ten percent black. So you try and make sure one out of ten people are black. Same with other minorities. After a couple hours, you move on to another polling place, or not. Either way, you get a snapshot at best, that may or may not be fairly accurate.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Finally, congressional approval. I think that has more to do with disapproving of other peoples representatives. As I said, I live in south Georgia, and even the Democratic voters generally speaking don't want Nancy Pelosi representing them. So when someone asks them if they approve, or disapprove of Congress, they say disapprove. They disapprove of Nancy and many others, but they re-elect their congressman, because he is doing and saying what they want to hear. What those people are saying is your representative sucks, but mine is pretty good. You couldn't get Cotton elected in California, but he was elected from his state. You couldn't get Senator Durbin elected in my state, you just couldn't do it. A Democrat in Georgia either has to be from a Democrat plus a huge amount to win, or has to be a very blue dog Democrat. Not fair, but true.

So what those polls are showing, especially with the reelection of so many, is that the people disapprove of representatives that are not their own. It's the I'm right and you all are idiots trend writ large. Everyone is guilty of that one. Yes, I mean people on the left, and right.

Exit polling if weighted against the actual results can give you an idea of what people were thinking, generally speaking, about the election. It can't predict the election because districts change, and attitudes change.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

long time no see - k/r nashville_brook Mar 2015 #1
The time to change electronic voting is AFTER Democrats win big. stillwaiting Mar 2015 #2
The problem with that course Time for change Mar 2015 #11
Electronic voting is not secure...look at ANY year's computer hacking headlines for the evidence. Fred Sanders Mar 2015 #3
Finally An Exceptional Article billhicks76 Mar 2015 #84
Early returns from Ohio's Sec. of State Web Site Botany Mar 2015 #4
I haven't seen this before. brer cat Mar 2015 #8
I've often wondered about the Homeland Security shutdown of the count... KansDem Mar 2015 #10
You're paranoid as hell aren't you? Jackpine Radical Mar 2015 #105
You got that right! KansDem Mar 2015 #119
Lucas county partial results above make the switch from Kerry to Green candidate Cobb obvious. hedda_foil Mar 2015 #106
What I saw and what I heard in Ohio 2004 still haunts me Botany Mar 2015 #107
What still haunts me is the fact that the voting machine vendor reprogrammed all the machines hedda_foil Mar 2015 #123
Kickin' Faux pas Mar 2015 #5
Good to see you, Time for change. brer cat Mar 2015 #6
Thank you very much Time for change Mar 2015 #14
Want to know who I believe? -- the people involved brooklynite Mar 2015 #7
Except that bradblog.com has been covering electronic vote theft. Electronic, the NEW way valerief Mar 2015 #16
The issue of electronic vote manipulation has been made into a pariah by our corporate news media Time for change Mar 2015 #18
Yes they do... brooklynite Mar 2015 #21
how is documented by this az group questionseverything Mar 2015 #40
crap on a stick software questionseverything Mar 2015 #44
or it could be nobody is watching questionseverything Mar 2015 #45
So, you're saying not one of affected candidates cared... brooklynite Mar 2015 #46
here is one that did questionseverything Mar 2015 #50
Thank you for confirming my point brooklynite Mar 2015 #52
there was plenty of evidence questionseverything Mar 2015 #57
You're getting warmer... dreamnightwind Mar 2015 #60
Waukesha County, WI - Votes stored in MS Access Database paparush Mar 2015 #22
The votes were not "stored" in Access. They were tallied there. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #67
i wasnt there but i know people who were questionseverything Mar 2015 #74
There were lots of problems with poorly sealed bags. We've changed bags since then because of that. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #75
read the article i posted questionseverything Mar 2015 #76
I was there and read it 4 years ago. The melodrama and silly rumors were bad enough in real time. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #78
these arnt rumors questionseverything Mar 2015 #83
I can confirm this portion: PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #86
did kathy n stand up and admit fraud ...no questionseverything Mar 2015 #90
If there were evidence of fraud, Kloppenburg and our team would have found it PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #91
not to mention the gab's reporting of recount results questionseverything Mar 2015 #85
brunner said there were critical security failures questionseverything Mar 2015 #53
Perhaps so...point to where she says those security failures were utilized. brooklynite Mar 2015 #54
look at botony's post # 4 questionseverything Mar 2015 #58
Thanks for this post. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #73
Kerry has came to believe it was stolen in 2005. pa28 Mar 2015 #92
You get a receipt sulphurdunn Mar 2015 #100
I'm not arguing that there aren't potential issues, I'm arguing no evidence of intentional fraud brooklynite Mar 2015 #102
"Code Red" is a book ? article ? blog ? link ? eppur_se_muova Mar 2015 #9
It's a book Time for change Mar 2015 #15
I'm guessing that it's this: drm604 Mar 2015 #17
Thanks ! Buy paperback and Kindle links there. nt eppur_se_muova Mar 2015 #19
It's about time HoosierCowboy Mar 2015 #12
I'm convinced. Enthusiast Mar 2015 #13
Remember what happened to Mike Connell... Gumboot Mar 2015 #20
Michael Connell Time for change Mar 2015 #68
There is some major cognitive dissonance on this issue RufusTFirefly Mar 2015 #23
It was my pleasure Time for change Mar 2015 #69
Don't forget aspirant Mar 2015 #24
K&R nt Andy823 Mar 2015 #25
One doesn't need an advanced degree in mathematics NoMoreRepugs Mar 2015 #26
Thank you. I've been talking about this since 2004/5 when the Ohio data came out. CaptainTruth Mar 2015 #27
I still have a copy of this book on my shelf from back then... RufusTFirefly Mar 2015 #29
I remember that! Good for you. CaptainTruth Mar 2015 #39
What are you doing in your State to improve the voting systems? Anything? Nothing? Bluenorthwest Mar 2015 #28
Funny how the "help America vote act" fasttense Mar 2015 #31
you have optical scanners which can be munipulated questionseverything Mar 2015 #64
So Good To Hear From You 1norcal Mar 2015 #30
Thank you so much! Time for change Mar 2015 #70
Put simply: Red Shift = % of Vote Theft Dont call me Shirley Mar 2015 #32
until we return to verifiable voting via hand counted paper ballots, we have no democracy and no Kip Humphrey Mar 2015 #33
Okay...you've got your hand-counted paper ballots. How do you aggregate the votes? brooklynite Mar 2015 #56
each election board is responsible for it's own totals questionseverything Mar 2015 #61
All paper ballots are Hand Counted at the voting stations... bvar22 Mar 2015 #82
Thanks - Code Red has some very good suggestions on the subject Time for change Mar 2015 #71
I heard you were comin' back! OnyxCollie Mar 2015 #34
K & R mountain grammy Mar 2015 #35
I got this from someone who does work for DARPA DFW Mar 2015 #36
And then there's this... Dont call me Shirley Mar 2015 #37
Same old BS, you have no idea of the election system in the US. There are over 50,000 voting CK_John Mar 2015 #38
The input data (votes) originates in a variety of formats, CaptainTruth Mar 2015 #41
yes the spreadsheet is the ultimate blackbox questionseverything Mar 2015 #47
Why do scanners and machines have proprietery code we citizens aren't allowed to inspect? Omaha Steve Mar 2015 #42
That's why many tactics are utilized, silly human. When the known issues are not tackled, and mother earth Mar 2015 #43
Sorry. Sounds like you're the one with no clue. Arugula Latte Mar 2015 #62
What if there are many individual voting precincts that have veribiable voting? Time for change Mar 2015 #72
two words olddots Mar 2015 #48
Check it out ~ we even had an Electronic Voting Links Library here at DU years ago: Zorra Mar 2015 #49
Ah...so now, DEMOCRATS are rigging voting machines? brooklynite Mar 2015 #55
Did I say, or, imply, anything about Democrats in my post? Zorra Mar 2015 #63
The DU right wing will do its best to convince you that vote manipulation..." brooklynite Mar 2015 #65
No matter which of the only two parties we can vote for that has Zorra Mar 2015 #77
What's telling is... RobertEarl Mar 2015 #51
When it's an oligarchy. ancianita Mar 2015 #59
K & R, this needs much more attention dreamnightwind Mar 2015 #66
Remembering the 2004 Swing State Red Shift november3rd Mar 2015 #79
Great to see you posting again. This is probably the most important issue before us today. rhett o rick Mar 2015 #80
Thanks Time for change Mar 2015 #93
One problem I've always had with these arguments. Savannahmann Mar 2015 #81
These exit polls were taken and analyzed scientifically. Time for change Mar 2015 #94
Ok. But..... Savannahmann Mar 2015 #96
I don't understand your problem with a statistical sample Time for change Mar 2015 #97
I don't have the statistics but I believe that exit polling has been very accurate in rhett o rick Mar 2015 #101
It is utterly naive... JackHughes Mar 2015 #87
...and yet they gave up power in 2006 and 2008 brooklynite Mar 2015 #88
Not in the states... JackHughes Mar 2015 #89
2006 we took back the House....and pick up 5 Governorships and 6 senate seats brooklynite Mar 2015 #98
If Dems show up in numbers, there's no way they can win. They're not showing up. YOHABLO Mar 2015 #95
Isn't that blaming the voters, instead of correcting the problem? 99th_Monkey Mar 2015 #116
Dems show up for exit polls, but not as much in official vote counts Time for change Mar 2015 #121
It's Pretty Obvious But Totally Ignored ( In America) For Years colsohlibgal Mar 2015 #99
K&R DeSwiss Mar 2015 #103
Thank you. SusanCalvin Mar 2015 #104
"Trust us." blkmusclmachine Mar 2015 #108
+1000 blkmusclmachine Mar 2015 #109
14th Characteristic of Fascism (http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm): blkmusclmachine Mar 2015 #110
The denial of this fundamental problem is damning us. dougolat Mar 2015 #111
k & r & thank you! wildbilln864 Mar 2015 #112
Very important stuff. Mr_Jefferson_24 Mar 2015 #113
Watch for Republicans gaining and passing from behind when the later returns come in. GoneFishin Mar 2015 #114
Some Democrats were ALL over this, right after the 2004 election. 99th_Monkey Mar 2015 #115
David Dill: "It is not enough that elections be accurate-- eridani Mar 2015 #117
Okay...for the sake of discussion, let's stipulate that there's digital tampering of elections... brooklynite Mar 2015 #118
you are not correct questionseverything Mar 2015 #120
First thing Time for change Mar 2015 #122
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