General Discussion

MFrohike

(1,980 posts)

52. Yes, but no

Mon Mar 23, 2015, 08:32 PM

Mar 2015

If you can name a federal poverty program that hasn't been reformed* other than maybe Head Start, I'm all ears. If you want it to last, you tie it to the middle class. If you don't give a damn about what happens, you make it poverty only. It's akin to the old saying about there being two kinds of horses in Congress: show horses and work horses.

A federal anti-poverty program that benefits everyone, or most, can benefit the poor and working class more than it benefits the middle class. It's entirely possible to construct a program that offers good enough benefits to eliminate most middle-class whining about money going to the poor while also offering benefits that will actually free people from poverty. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's likely to happen. I'm just saying it's possible.

*In American politics, reform means to make worse, usually drastically so. Whenever I hear a politician talk about reforming a program, I know they mean gutting it if it's not for the rich and writing a blank check if it is for the rich.

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Hillary Clinton is getting serious about social mobility [View all] DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 OP

Yup, she's definitely upwardly mobile. leveymg Mar 2015 #1

You do know there have been Democratic leaders that make the Clintons look like pikers. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #3

I know, there's really no respect for the way the Clintons did it Man from Pickens Mar 2015 #5

Anything earned is more precious than anything given. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #7

Old wealth sometimes know the concept of noblesse oblige lumberjack_jeff Mar 2015 #15

It's easy to be noble when you don't have to work. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #16

FDR didn't need to work. n/t lumberjack_jeff Mar 2015 #19

Great man. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #20

Yes. But I see two sides lumberjack_jeff Mar 2015 #24

But there was no internet when FDR ran. Old and In the Way Mar 2015 #60

Did they trade on the prestige of offices held too? MFrohike Mar 2015 #27

Pat Riley gets 40k for a speech...That's not the lofty 300K the Clintons get... DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #30

Interesting MFrohike Mar 2015 #33

Too busy being the general manager of the Miami Heat. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #35

Sheesh MFrohike Mar 2015 #49

What do the Kochs have to do with the great Pat Riley and the Clintons?/NT DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #50

What does Pat Riley have to do with Bill Clinton? MFrohike Mar 2015 #59

the kochs largely inherited dsc Mar 2015 #56

Partly MFrohike Mar 2015 #58

Good for her. But... JaneyVee Mar 2015 #4

That was my reaction. And I've seen both on this site. People saying pnwmom Mar 2015 #8

That was to illustrate the extra pockets for her second Blackberry leveymg Mar 2015 #97

One photo would have illustrated that. The picture of a dozen pantsuits in different hues pnwmom Mar 2015 #105

That was one image of a dozen pantsuits. It's on Google images. I don't go to Rethug sites. leveymg Mar 2015 #150

Google images links to Rethugs sites. And that's where that originated, not here. pnwmom Mar 2015 #158

Poor dear! HappyMe Mar 2015 #11

I wonder if Addison Mizner built her Summer home DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #14

Don't know, don't care. HappyMe Mar 2015 #18

she grew up upper middle class and has only gotten richer. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #42

While it is totally not the point at all Bettie Mar 2015 #153

That was the first thing I noticed, as well. leveymg Mar 2015 #156

This would be a great place to start looking why some areas flourish and others does not. Thinkingabout Mar 2015 #2

Little last to the party Fearless Mar 2015 #6

incorrect. She has a voting recond in the Senate that disputes that DU meme OKNancy Mar 2015 #28

That she only supports things when they're already popular Fearless Mar 2015 #126

Better late than never huh? n/t cherokeeprogressive Mar 2015 #9

incorrect, she has always fought for good wages, OKNancy Mar 2015 #29

TPP. End of discussion android fan Mar 2015 #57

Authored? It's still being negotiated. She's a private citizen. Stop making things up and MADem Mar 2015 #67

Oh. My. Word. woo me with science Mar 2015 #72

Four or Five years ago she was ASKED to get it going OKNancy Mar 2015 #145

Then the OP is unnecessary? cherokeeprogressive Mar 2015 #62

What utter bullshit. She is an AUTHOR of the TPP. woo me with science Mar 2015 #66

Amazing how a private citizen can get around that table where it's being negotiated... MADem Mar 2015 #70

Like the 700 or so TPP corporate advisors? MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #75

Oh, there you go again, with your childish mis-direction--we're talking about Clinton, here. MADem Mar 2015 #96

Were you not marveling at the ability MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #100

No, the conversation was about a "Secretary of State" who was supposedly "WRITING" the TPP. MADem Mar 2015 #103

"Amazing how a private citizen can get around that table where it's being negotiated..." MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #111

A private citizen=Hillary Clinton, not "any" private citizen. MADem Mar 2015 #112

You were scornful of a private citizen influencing the TPP MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #113

"A" single, solitary private citizen--not a group invited to the table. That's context, Manny, MADem Mar 2015 #118

My reading comprehension scores havealways been pretty reasonable MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #127

IMO, you need to dig in. I wrote what I meant, you did not discern the context because you didn't MADem Mar 2015 #128

Then we'll agree to disagree. nt MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #129

Yeah, who would think that the Secretary of State Mnpaul Mar 2015 #78

War is Peace! woo me with science Mar 2015 #81

Thanks for posting that compilation. Bookmarking. JEB Mar 2015 #140

The Secretary of State is a gentleman named KERRY--he's had the job for awhile. Ya know? MADem Mar 2015 #88

Not as powerful as some people think! MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #102

Because if their last name is Clinton, they're the same? MADem Mar 2015 #106

maybe you should leave reality denial land Mnpaul Mar 2015 #104

This message was self-deleted by its author MADem Mar 2015 #107

That article is over two years old. The thing is still being written. MADem Mar 2015 #115

'The article is two years old" Mnpaul Mar 2015 #121

She isn't "drafting" anything now (two years later)--she's not the SECSTATE. MADem Mar 2015 #123

I guess MADem took my advice Mnpaul Mar 2015 #116

Your disconnect is stronger--that article you're calling a "gotcha" is something everyone should MADem Mar 2015 #122

We were told the same thing by the last Clinton Mnpaul Mar 2015 #130

What does President Clinton have to do with SECSTATE Clinton? MADem Mar 2015 #131

"two for the price of one" ring a bell? Mnpaul Mar 2015 #134

Hillary didn't have her finger on the button when her husband was President. MADem Mar 2015 #137

Yeah, we know how Hillary boosted American businesses Mnpaul Mar 2015 #139

Gee, refresh my memory, now--who signed that act into law? Hmmm? MADem Mar 2015 #142

So Mrs. "lobbyists are people too" Mnpaul Mar 2015 #149

Sorry, the bulk of the work done on the TPP cali Mar 2015 #108

Yes, and the bulk of the work done on the film "The Butler" was done while she was in office, too. MADem Mar 2015 #109

that's absurd. You know there are many articles cali Mar 2015 #119

She's OUT OF THE GAME. She is not the SecState, she's not IN GOVERNMENT. MADem Mar 2015 #124

OOOH CAPS. ME PLAY TOO. SO NOTHING SHE EVER FUCKING DID WHILE cali Mar 2015 #146

If so, then the fact that she was Secretary of State is wholly irrelevant. n/t winter is coming Mar 2015 #172

LOL! She didn't fight for good wages in Haiti. OnyxCollie Mar 2015 #176

Her policies will cause mobility, all right: DOWNWARD mobility. woo me with science Mar 2015 #10

Center for Economic Policy Research: Hillary's TPP will cut wages of 90 percent of Americans woo me with science Mar 2015 #22

...spiraling down through a hail of bullets? L0oniX Mar 2015 #69

Yup, while being flat broke! woo me with science Mar 2015 #74

Missing the point. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2015 #12

But I suspect this will have many here unsatisfied ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #13

My thread offended the ten percent who are upset with the one percent... DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #17

Sorry, no. HappyMe Mar 2015 #21

Question ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #25

No. Wealthy people who are millions of dollars into debt aren't "dead broke". winter is coming Mar 2015 #40

+100 ND-Dem Mar 2015 #44

"both dumb and deeply offensive" woo me with science Mar 2015 #55

Thank you for piercing the veil of bullshit that gets drawn leveymg Mar 2015 #86

I call dead broke when you've just sold the last pint of plasma you are allowed this month.. Fumesucker Mar 2015 #41

+1000 OrwellwasRight Mar 2015 #138

Yep ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #23

baloney ND-Dem Mar 2015 #45

Liverwurst DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #48

See? ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #84

lol! the "we are just jealous of the 1%" shtick now, huh? PowerToThePeople Mar 2015 #133

"How about you just wiggle on back to freeperland where you came from." DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #152

a public apology for my crass comment. PowerToThePeople Mar 2015 #157

If you read my comments closely I wasn't referring to the poor...That's the opposite of my point... DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #160

imo, it is not income dependent. PowerToThePeople Mar 2015 #162

Shrug MFrohike Mar 2015 #32

I completely disagree ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #39

Are you in favor then of doing away with Social Security? Fumesucker Mar 2015 #47

No ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #71

Evidently you are actually in favor of bribing the middle class then Fumesucker Mar 2015 #110

You realize that Social Security ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #114

Yes and I also realize we are rapidly getting back to that point too... Fumesucker Mar 2015 #117

That's why I support the program (and its expansion) ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #120

Yes, but no MFrohike Mar 2015 #52

I agree. And if we REALLY want it to stick ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #80

Whatever you like MFrohike Mar 2015 #87

I agree. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #91

"it's a serious strategy to divide people" which is all our "leaders" seem to be capable ND-Dem Mar 2015 #46

+1,000! nt MADem Mar 2015 #125

I would love to peddle influence like her. Katashi_itto Mar 2015 #26

There has to be some way the banksters are going to make the money hifiguy Mar 2015 #31

Oh puleeze! Banksters and Wall Street cons ARE the new middle class. L0oniX Mar 2015 #68

Lipstick, meet shinola Android3.14 Mar 2015 #34

I can vouch that this is true MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #36

You are on a roll, Manny! hifiguy Mar 2015 #37

I thought you eschewed associating with those of lower economic classes. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #38

Cake or Death! nationalize the fed Mar 2015 #43

Cake *and* death! MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #53

+100 ND-Dem Mar 2015 #51

We dined on coatimundi confit at the Karaku haberdashery "hats for hobos" fundraiser today! NYC_SKP Mar 2015 #63

Bwahahahahahah LMFAO L0oniX Mar 2015 #65

!!! MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #73

... woo me with science Mar 2015 #77

... woo me with science Mar 2015 #79

I find it amusing to watch the 10% speak for the 90%... DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #82

Where do you get this 10% quackery from, I've have never even made median income? TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #164

So a person who is living a hand to mouth existence has time to sit at his or computer and wax... DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #165

Nobody has to be in the top 10% or anywhere close to have a fucking computer, internet, and a brain. TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #169

I would respond in kind but I don't want to get a hide and mar my stellar record. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #170

Feel free to respond in kind, I didn't stutter. Nor did I personally attack you but your position. TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #173

The California authorities better not find out I'm part of the 10% or !% DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #174

It wasn't my argument but yours, invalidated by your own participation in the conversation TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #175

Jesus LittleBlue Mar 2015 #141

She's looking at schools, which is laudable Warpy Mar 2015 #54

If she were "serious" about education... Cosmic Kitten Mar 2015 #61

Free business school ...so everyone can be a sociopath bankster & Wall Street con artist. L0oniX Mar 2015 #64

Translation: Oh sh*t, those pests Warren and O'Malley LittleBlue Mar 2015 #76

She's been talking this way since leaving SoS. joshcryer Mar 2015 #85

The responses to this are typical. joshcryer Mar 2015 #83

My Dunhill wallet is simply twitching with anticipation! MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #89

Yes, Wall Street should do great. joshcryer Mar 2015 #90

+1! MADem Mar 2015 #95

Has Hillary Clinton talked about breaking up the banks? /nt Marr Mar 2015 #161

She is a succesful woman =we must hate her. Old and In the Way Mar 2015 #92

All she is is a capitalist. joshcryer Mar 2015 #93

No doubt! MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #94

LOL, +1 Marr Mar 2015 #168

You're damn tootin', OAITW. MADem Mar 2015 #99

Obviously a lot smarter people than me who employ rhetoric Old and In the Way Mar 2015 #101

Hillary is going to have to address the failure of the social safety net daredtowork Mar 2015 #98

None of them will tell the truth about SS Mnpaul Mar 2015 #136

This message was self-deleted by its author moondust Mar 2015 #132

Ted Cruz is, too. WillTwain Mar 2015 #135

I don't care what any politician says during a campaign. They can promise the moon during the liberal_at_heart Mar 2015 #143

ladders Ichingcarpenter Mar 2015 #144

funny she asks that question, as if she doesn't know the answer. KG Mar 2015 #147

Serious about campaign rhetoric concerning it, anyway. djean111 Mar 2015 #148

For some odd reason... 99Forever Mar 2015 #151

Not a fan of hers, generally Bettie Mar 2015 #154

Great job Hillary. Keep it going. nt. NCTraveler Mar 2015 #155

She's pro TPP, pro war, pro Wall Street. Words are free, and she's campaigning. Marr Mar 2015 #159

"social mobility" vs "Universal basic income." Trillo Mar 2015 #163

+ Democracy Octafish Mar 2015 #166

Look to Your Wall Street buddies for the most important answers, Madame Secretary. Orsino Mar 2015 #167

DU rec for pissing off all the right people... SidDithers Mar 2015 #171