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In reply to the discussion: Bob Graham, March 21: "There's no question that the Bush administration covered up for the Saudis." [View all]leveymg
(36,418 posts)50. I believe that her later decision to support arming Islamic militants in Libya and Syria was also
illegal, at least under International Law norms. If another country did the same to us, we would treat it as an act of aggressive war, which has been defined in practice as follows.
In 1945, the London Charter of the International Military Tribunal defined three categories of crimes, including crimes against peace. This definition was first used by Finland to prosecute the political leadership in the war-responsibility trials in Finland. The principles were later known as the Nuremberg Principles.
In 1950, the Nuremberg Tribunal defined Crimes against Peace, in Principle VI, specifically Principle VI(a), submitted to the United Nations General Assembly, as:[12][13]
(i) Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances;
(ii) Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under (i).
In 1950, the Nuremberg Tribunal defined Crimes against Peace, in Principle VI, specifically Principle VI(a), submitted to the United Nations General Assembly, as:[12][13]
(i) Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances;
(ii) Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under (i).
Specifically, in 2011 and 2012, Secretary Clinton at State and CIA Director Petraeus aided Qatar in the arming of Sunni militia groups of Qatar's choosing in Libya and Syria. The U.S. then facilitated arms shipments in both directions across the Mediterranean. That decision was described in a much overlooked NYT article:
U.S.-Approved Arms for Libya Rebels Fell Into Jihadis Hands
By JAMES RISEN, MARK MAZZETTI and MICHAEL S. SCHMIDT DEC. 5, 2012
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/06/world/africa/weapons-sent-to-libyan-rebels-with-us-approval-fell-into-islamist-hands.html?_r=0
WASHINGTON The Obama administration secretly gave its blessing to arms shipments to Libyan rebels from Qatar last year, but American officials later grew alarmed as evidence grew that Qatar was turning some of the weapons over to Islamic militants, according to United States officials and foreign diplomats.
(. . .)
But in the months before, the Obama administration clearly was worried about the consequences of its hidden hand in helping arm Libyan militants, concerns that have not previously been reported. The weapons and money from Qatar strengthened militant groups in Libya, allowing them to become a destabilizing force since the fall of the Qaddafi government.
The Obama administration did not initially raise objections when Qatar began shipping arms to opposition groups in Syria, even if it did not offer encouragement, according to current and former administration officials. But they said the United States has growing concerns that, just as in Libya, the Qataris are equipping some of the wrong militants.
The United States, which had only small numbers of C.I.A. officers in Libya during the tumult of the rebellion, provided little oversight of the arms shipments. Within weeks of endorsing Qatars plan to send weapons there in spring 2011, the White House began receiving reports that they were going to Islamic militant groups. They were more antidemocratic, more hard-line, closer to an extreme version of Islam than the main rebel alliance in Libya, said a former Defense Department official.
The Qatari assistance to fighters viewed as hostile by the United States demonstrates the Obama administrations continuing struggles in dealing with the Arab Spring uprisings, as it tries to support popular protest movements while avoiding American military entanglements. Relying on surrogates allows the United States to keep its fingerprints off operations, but also means they may play out in ways that conflict with American interests.
(. . .)
He said that Qatar would not have gone through with the arms shipments if the United States had resisted them, but other current and former administration officials said Washington had little leverage at times over Qatari officials. They march to their own drummer, said a former senior State Department official. The White House and State Department declined to comment.
(. . .)
But after the White House decided to encourage Qatar and on a smaller scale, the United Arab Emirates to ship arms to the Libyans, President Obama complained in April 2011 to the emir of Qatar that his country was not coordinating its actions in Libya with the United States, the American officials said. The president made the point to the emir that we needed transparency about what Qatar was doing in Libya, said a former senior administration official who had been briefed on the matter. (INSERT: It was at this time that US Ambassador Chris Stevens quietly reappeared in Benghazi, where he took over direction of Eastern Libyan militias and CIA collection of weapons.)
About that same time, Mahmoud Jibril, then the prime minister of the Libyan transitional government, expressed frustration to administration officials that the United States was allowing Qatar to arm extremist groups opposed to the new leadership, according to several American officials. They, like nearly a dozen current and former White House, diplomatic, intelligence, military and foreign officials, would speak only on the condition of anonymity for this article.
The administration has never determined where all of the weapons, paid for by Qatar and the United Arab Emirates, went inside Libya, officials said. Qatar is believed to have shipped by air and sea small arms, including machine guns, automatic rifles, and ammunition, for which it has demanded reimbursement from Libyas new government. Some of the arms since have been moved from Libya to militants with ties to Al Qaeda in Mali, where radical jihadi factions have imposed Shariah law in the northern part of the country, the former Defense Department official said. Others have gone to Syria, according to several American and foreign officials and arms traders.
By JAMES RISEN, MARK MAZZETTI and MICHAEL S. SCHMIDT DEC. 5, 2012
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/06/world/africa/weapons-sent-to-libyan-rebels-with-us-approval-fell-into-islamist-hands.html?_r=0
WASHINGTON The Obama administration secretly gave its blessing to arms shipments to Libyan rebels from Qatar last year, but American officials later grew alarmed as evidence grew that Qatar was turning some of the weapons over to Islamic militants, according to United States officials and foreign diplomats.
(. . .)
But in the months before, the Obama administration clearly was worried about the consequences of its hidden hand in helping arm Libyan militants, concerns that have not previously been reported. The weapons and money from Qatar strengthened militant groups in Libya, allowing them to become a destabilizing force since the fall of the Qaddafi government.
The Obama administration did not initially raise objections when Qatar began shipping arms to opposition groups in Syria, even if it did not offer encouragement, according to current and former administration officials. But they said the United States has growing concerns that, just as in Libya, the Qataris are equipping some of the wrong militants.
The United States, which had only small numbers of C.I.A. officers in Libya during the tumult of the rebellion, provided little oversight of the arms shipments. Within weeks of endorsing Qatars plan to send weapons there in spring 2011, the White House began receiving reports that they were going to Islamic militant groups. They were more antidemocratic, more hard-line, closer to an extreme version of Islam than the main rebel alliance in Libya, said a former Defense Department official.
The Qatari assistance to fighters viewed as hostile by the United States demonstrates the Obama administrations continuing struggles in dealing with the Arab Spring uprisings, as it tries to support popular protest movements while avoiding American military entanglements. Relying on surrogates allows the United States to keep its fingerprints off operations, but also means they may play out in ways that conflict with American interests.
(. . .)
He said that Qatar would not have gone through with the arms shipments if the United States had resisted them, but other current and former administration officials said Washington had little leverage at times over Qatari officials. They march to their own drummer, said a former senior State Department official. The White House and State Department declined to comment.
(. . .)
But after the White House decided to encourage Qatar and on a smaller scale, the United Arab Emirates to ship arms to the Libyans, President Obama complained in April 2011 to the emir of Qatar that his country was not coordinating its actions in Libya with the United States, the American officials said. The president made the point to the emir that we needed transparency about what Qatar was doing in Libya, said a former senior administration official who had been briefed on the matter. (INSERT: It was at this time that US Ambassador Chris Stevens quietly reappeared in Benghazi, where he took over direction of Eastern Libyan militias and CIA collection of weapons.)
About that same time, Mahmoud Jibril, then the prime minister of the Libyan transitional government, expressed frustration to administration officials that the United States was allowing Qatar to arm extremist groups opposed to the new leadership, according to several American officials. They, like nearly a dozen current and former White House, diplomatic, intelligence, military and foreign officials, would speak only on the condition of anonymity for this article.
The administration has never determined where all of the weapons, paid for by Qatar and the United Arab Emirates, went inside Libya, officials said. Qatar is believed to have shipped by air and sea small arms, including machine guns, automatic rifles, and ammunition, for which it has demanded reimbursement from Libyas new government. Some of the arms since have been moved from Libya to militants with ties to Al Qaeda in Mali, where radical jihadi factions have imposed Shariah law in the northern part of the country, the former Defense Department official said. Others have gone to Syria, according to several American and foreign officials and arms traders.
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Bob Graham, March 21: "There's no question that the Bush administration covered up for the Saudis." [View all]
johnnyreb
Mar 2015
OP
When Saudi Arabia attacked the USA on 9/11, the Bush-Cheney response was:
Old and In the Way
Mar 2015
#8
It's a shame that we have a great candidate, not bought by the Special Interests, in Bernie Sanders.
Dustlawyer
Mar 2015
#57
Agreed we need to fight to get a Progressive Populist candidate NOW. If we let $$$$$ be the only
Vincardog
Mar 2015
#71
Really, you will vote for the Democrat irregardless? Can you not see how Fracked up our
rhett o rick
Mar 2015
#31
Some people are more willing that others to overlook atrocities for partisan reasons [n/t]
Maedhros
Mar 2015
#69
I'm mainly when the primary happens though it will likely be decided by the time it gets to Arizona
JonLP24
Mar 2015
#33
I believe that her later decision to support arming Islamic militants in Libya and Syria was also
leveymg
Mar 2015
#50
Not were - still are in danger of being killed and wounded. And we are forgetting the overstretch
jwirr
Mar 2015
#30
They both, and several more, need to be painting the inside of prison walls.
Dont call me Shirley
Mar 2015
#49
If Bush and Cheney weren't guilty of something, they would've testified under oath...
Octafish
Mar 2015
#12
I have a hunch that if he ever dies he will be immediately cremated to protect
rhett o rick
Mar 2015
#70
You know what was weird about the Lieberman choice? Some fundies claimed it was a trick to put a Jew
freshwest
Mar 2015
#38
"We think The 28 Pages are really the tip of the iceberg;..." --9/11 plaintiffs' lawyer
johnnyreb
Mar 2015
#24
That photo of GHW Bush and Abdullah with their entourages, and their body language, tells us who
leveymg
Mar 2015
#45
I do believe all of this about the Saudis, but many people have suspected that very
GoneFishin
Mar 2015
#25
I still think that there is more more to this story than just Saudi involvement. Too many people
GoneFishin
Mar 2015
#47
Even Nancy Pelosi called the subject, "sacred ground." Nobody wants to go there. Bob Graham should
leveymg
Mar 2015
#46
By the terms of her oath of secrecy as one of the Eight, she's gagged herself. But, she could bring
leveymg
Mar 2015
#52
The attorney who deposed Zacarias Moussaoui about alleged Saudi-9/11 involvement
JonLP24
Mar 2015
#67