General Discussion

Rex

(65,616 posts)

204. At least there is no wiggle room here, you either support 'free trade' or you support

Reply to Aerows (Reply #198)

Thu Mar 26, 2015, 01:25 PM

Mar 2015

'fair trade'. Glad to see an issue arise that none of the usual suspects can weasel out of.

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BREAKING: WikiLeaks Leaks TPP Draft!!! [View all] kpete Mar 2015 OP

and a big K & R! n/t wildbilln864 Mar 2015 #1

Going to take some time to read all that, but summary is Rex Mar 2015 #2

No, they want power OVER governments. Jackpine Radical Mar 2015 #41

Hmmm...I am already under the belief they have power over the government(s). Rex Mar 2015 #49

Bingo. You got it MaggieD Mar 2015 #81

America is "exceptional," in that it has been coopted more than most BlueStreak Mar 2015 #277

Wow, great description of the republican platform. peoli Mar 2015 #109

They get to sue governments for unseen profits marym625 Mar 2015 #47

But do they get to make their own corporate tribunals? We already have 'pay for' prisons Rex Mar 2015 #54

La Rage marym625 Mar 2015 #59

Most excellent, madam! May I?.. johnnyreb Mar 2015 #86

Arch Enemy...hell yeah!!! U4ikLefty Mar 2015 #99

Great marym625 Mar 2015 #115

They organize their own secret tribunals. bvar22 Mar 2015 #237

That is someone's interpretation treestar Mar 2015 #124

Did you read it? marym625 Mar 2015 #128

Article II 21 Selection of Arbitrators? treestar Mar 2015 #135

First, you're right marym625 Mar 2015 #140

It looks like all our laws, Environmental eg, would mean nothing. Iow, a Foreign Corporation would sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #84

Well the IMF and the WTO have always wanted to rule the world. Rex Mar 2015 #85

Yes, and everywhere the IMF/World Bank has been, disaster for the people can be found. But success sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #90

world bank. marym625 Mar 2015 #132

Excellent summation of what I also believe is happening. AllyCat Mar 2015 #194

I've wondered from the beginning what happens to the first country Buns_of_Fire Mar 2015 #104

It's considered bad politics to renege on agreements. randome Mar 2015 #136

This isn't really about "countries" Aerows Mar 2015 #198

No. I don't. randome Mar 2015 #200

So national sovereignty means nothing to you? Rex Mar 2015 #203

I don't see it that way, although I understand the concern. randome Mar 2015 #209

Yes but the problem arises from the simple fact that they don't need us. Rex Mar 2015 #215

It is my opinion Aerows Mar 2015 #205

They oppose democracy while gnashing their teeth about voting TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #239

That's it, in a nutshell Art_from_Ark Mar 2015 #257

At least there is no wiggle room here, you either support 'free trade' or you support Rex Mar 2015 #204

I can't fathom Aerows Mar 2015 #206

Well the authoritarian sect is all for it, no surprise there Rex Mar 2015 #208

It doesn't do that, from what I can see. randome Mar 2015 #211

And who gets to decide what's 'bogus' about a given environmental law? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2015 #219

Well, if we want international cooperation with trade... randome Mar 2015 #220

hope away LiberalLovinLug Mar 2015 #238

Obama characterized the TPP as a rewrite of NAFTA. randome Mar 2015 #246

I don't smoke anything Aerows Mar 2015 #252

Revolution is critical. nt Zorra Mar 2015 #3

This is important. Faryn Balyncd Mar 2015 #4

Traitors Rule Our Country billhicks76 Mar 2015 #39

Pretty much what they are doing marym625 Mar 2015 #48

We have to attack the root problem, campaign donations, Super PACs, and the Revolving Door! Dustlawyer Mar 2015 #117

That's not a root. That's a twig. Scootaloo Mar 2015 #251

Snark is easy, what's the big problem then and what is your solution? Dustlawyer Mar 2015 #268

It's not a personal attack, Dustlawyer. Nor snark Scootaloo Mar 2015 #269

Bookmarking to read later. City Lights Mar 2015 #5

NOW are we allowed to complain about it? cui bono Mar 2015 #6

We're supposed to love it just like the republicans do. arcane1 Mar 2015 #7

The uglican concritters don't read anything anyway erronis Mar 2015 #40

republicans don't love it. they oppose it more than democrats do. n/t pampango Mar 2015 #133

The TPP apologists will tell you that this isn't a signed version and that rhett o rick Mar 2015 #12

+1000 BeanMusical Mar 2015 #46

Want to lay any bets marym625 Mar 2015 #52

No bets marym625. nm rhett o rick Mar 2015 #144

...^ that 840high Mar 2015 #72

Bingo. +1 million LondonReign2 Mar 2015 #139

no, we must awoke_in_2003 Mar 2015 #16

But it's just a draft! And Julian Assange is wanted on 8 continents! And most of the oceans! Doctor_J Mar 2015 #42

He's also wanted on all the planets of the solar system. BeanMusical Mar 2015 #50

Though there is some debate about the validity of the warrent issued for Pluto nt dflprincess Mar 2015 #53

Lol, true. BeanMusical Mar 2015 #61

I've heard that's because Pluto still refers to itself as a "planet" Art_from_Ark Mar 2015 #105

Wouldn't you have to read it first? treestar Mar 2015 #123

Did you miss all the leaks that have happened along the way? cui bono Mar 2015 #282

Aaaand - this is just one reeking chapter. djean111 Mar 2015 #8

K&R. pacalo Mar 2015 #9

Kick, kick, kick. hifiguy Mar 2015 #10

imo this just codifies whats already happened. elehhhhna Mar 2015 #20

Thank you kpete for all your hard work here. This is an important story. nm rhett o rick Mar 2015 #11

kpete rules. nt Snotcicles Mar 2015 #19

There are a handful of posters here that are indespensible. kpete is high on the list. nm rhett o rick Mar 2015 #22

I agree, kpete keeps the important, important marym625 Mar 2015 #130

then so does kpete Mar 2015 #158

I suspect their long-term goal ... GeorgeGist Mar 2015 #13

I've thought about that long and hard. Countries or what ever takes their place as groups of rhett o rick Mar 2015 #26

Yes. Without some sense of belonging to a certain group how would TPTB keep us fighting cui bono Mar 2015 #70

K&R!!!!!!!!!!! newfie11 Mar 2015 #14

The NYT is even reporting on it. octoberlib Mar 2015 #15

k&r awoke_in_2003 Mar 2015 #17

I have noticed there is always a brief interlude before they descend, most likely in order to get Dragonfli Mar 2015 #24

I've heard rumors that they hang out at another site to plot their attacks. rhett o rick Mar 2015 #27

Yep, if it's the site that I'm thinking about then it's more than a rumor. BeanMusical Mar 2015 #66

I think it's childish, like the school yard. "let's all gang together and beat up the smart kid." nm rhett o rick Mar 2015 #96

It sure is. BeanMusical Mar 2015 #98

The sockpuppet army must get their ducks arranged, er, in a row. Enthusiast Mar 2015 #114

Isn't amazing how there seems to always be initial silence LondonReign2 Mar 2015 #141

and those who don't want to read anything til it's signed, sealed and delivered. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #25

Which will apparently be 4 years after implementation. stillwaiting Mar 2015 #31

So much for "transparency," huh? Buns_of_Fire Mar 2015 #43

jeez, i didn't know that part. so the folks here at DU who keep saying we have to wait ND-Dem Mar 2015 #71

Some of these people remind me of brainwashed cultists. BeanMusical Mar 2015 #94

HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Mar 2015 #18

Kick and Recommended Liberalynn Mar 2015 #21

k&r. looks like a lot of the things they've been predicting would happen. a big clusterfuck, ND-Dem Mar 2015 #23

Where are all the Obama and TPP defenders now? WillTwain Mar 2015 #28

I'm definitely an Obama supporter maxrandb Mar 2015 #190

Let the groupies follow WillTwain Mar 2015 #196

With the exception of Ed Schultz maxrandb Mar 2015 #213

Nicely put. randome Mar 2015 #214

I see the comment "All this hyperbole is equivalent to "Death Panels in the ACA"." as hyperbole. WillTwain Mar 2015 #217

The ACA was done out in the open in full public view. SomethingFishy Mar 2015 #231

And this will be too maxrandb Mar 2015 #233

Did you vote for Mitt? WillTwain Mar 2015 #262

So you are saying that what is written in the bill isn't really SomethingFishy Mar 2015 #281

Spoken like a true believer. cui bono Mar 2015 #284

How did they feel about Cheney negotiating a secret energy policy in 2000? WillTwain Mar 2015 #261

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Mar 2015 #256

WiKiLeaks peddles as much BS as the Gubermint! Cryptoad Mar 2015 #29

And McCorporations! Don't forget about them! Rex Mar 2015 #62

K and R big time glinda Mar 2015 #30

My first question, do we believe the leaked document of 2014 or 2015? Thinkingabout Mar 2015 #32

What difference does that make? cui bono Mar 2015 #285

You have made my point, opinions are posted when the final focument has not been released Thinkingabout Mar 2015 #286

Adam Smith: "People of the same trade seldom meet together, johnnyreb Mar 2015 #33

Bingo! ... If Adam Smith were alive in today's USA, he would be in the Warren/Sanders wing of the... Faryn Balyncd Mar 2015 #51

+10. How little changes from so long ago, mind blowing. Appreciate the exerpts. appalachiablue Mar 2015 #78

And people wonder why Karl Marx called himself a follower of Adam Smith. happyslug Mar 2015 #149

Well in order to talk about Smith, you have to talk about the social safe net. GOPers can't do that Rex Mar 2015 #222

IF this were to protect the Planet then great but %400 doubtful on that one. glinda Mar 2015 #34

What a horror show LittleBlue Mar 2015 #35

Call your Senators, Representatives and Whitehouse to express your opposition to this global Dont call me Shirley Mar 2015 #36

Someone did a post here about FAXING your comment to a Rep. because they will receive and possibly appalachiablue Mar 2015 #76

I heard on Thom Hartmann that for every one person who calls their rep/WH, they represent Dont call me Shirley Mar 2015 #119

That's very good to know- appalachiablue Mar 2015 #169

My level of pissed is off the charts. nt Curmudgeoness Mar 2015 #37

Thanks! Bradical79 Mar 2015 #38

Huge K&R! Quackers Mar 2015 #44

On a mostly serious note, do you think that when one of the foreign/transnationals actually Doctor_J Mar 2015 #45

nah, from what I've seen, people will just say, "It's God's will." nt antigop Mar 2015 #55

And by then, most of us will have learned the joy of genuflecting to our betters n/t deutsey Mar 2015 #134

It will be interesting to see the reactions. silverweb Mar 2015 #58

I expect some kind of "3D chess" analogy or some other way to explain away all the bad... Veilex Mar 2015 #91

It will take a while to unfold. silverweb Mar 2015 #95

What revolution? Rex Mar 2015 #63

It costs tens of thousands to file a suit. joshcryer Mar 2015 #113

Are you fucking kidding me? LondonReign2 Mar 2015 #146

No. joshcryer Mar 2015 #148

No, the problem is not with companies Aerows Mar 2015 #197

Exxon Mobil nets about 30 billion a year. a lawsuit costing 100 grand would set them Doctor_J Mar 2015 #234

IT is dishonest to pretend we the people can challenge a monopoly. Rex Mar 2015 #242

Exxon would not use this to sue the US. joshcryer Mar 2015 #243

They could sue any governmental entity JackRiddler Mar 2015 #265

You running for King of Rationalizations? JackRiddler Mar 2015 #264

Great job, WikiLeaks! Now, go get the 28 pages!!! KansDem Mar 2015 #56

At least we can count on Democratic presidential contenders to lead the fight Karmadillo Mar 2015 #57

If one of them is Bernie Sanders, then "Yes." Maedhros Mar 2015 #195

Note: I do not consent to this corporate power grab, giveaway, etc... midnight Mar 2015 #60

Big K and R, let the disinfectant shine. morningfog Mar 2015 #64

K&R. Sent another round of emails to my legislators opposing the TPP. Overseas Mar 2015 #65

Huge K & R Thespian2 Mar 2015 #67

On Prime Minister Harper: blkmusclmachine Mar 2015 #77

Of Course Thespian2 Mar 2015 #82

Time to raise some hell NBachers Mar 2015 #68

Damn straight Oilwellian Mar 2015 #88

K&R. nt OnyxCollie Mar 2015 #69

The New TTP World Unknown Beatle Mar 2015 #73

And Obama is STILL fighting tooth and nail to get this monstrosity passed into law. blkmusclmachine Mar 2015 #74

http://www.thecommentator.com/system/articles/inner_pictures/000/005/415/original/obama-laughing.jpg blkmusclmachine Mar 2015 #75

Just wait until aspirant Mar 2015 #79

K&R Big Time! 2banon Mar 2015 #80

This is going to break the consensus for Free Trade. leveymg Mar 2015 #83

Question ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #87

This message was self-deleted by its author MFrohike Mar 2015 #103

"Questions will not be tolerated." NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #110

Bottom Line: We get to pick who we trust - Robert Reich or President Obama WillTwain Mar 2015 #221

ISDS is boilerplate. joshcryer Mar 2015 #112

Thank you for that reasonable and informative response ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #118

I don't know about you, but I'm not a big fan of the idea of our corporations being able to go after F4lconF16 Mar 2015 #192

The US isn't the multinationals that headquarter here, they are largely our enemies TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #126

Wrong. ICSID handles US related disputes. joshcryer Mar 2015 #137

Wrong about what? That the US isn't the multinationals that headquarter here? TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #181

Under ISDS the US would force ICSID tribunals. joshcryer Mar 2015 #275

The US is not the corporations that headquarter here. The US isn't the captured government TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #279

The US has never lost an ISDS case. Not one. nt msanthrope Mar 2015 #127

Fascinating. joshcryer Mar 2015 #138

ISDS is to our advantage.....and while I think Warren is correct to question msanthrope Mar 2015 #142

"ISDS is a red herring" joshcryer Mar 2015 #147

So, again ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #159

Because maybe constantly screwing over other countries isn't in the best longterm interests of Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2015 #223

Aren't US legislators responsible for ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #229

Demagoguery. joshcryer Mar 2015 #274

Many believe that the expansion under this chapter of the ISDS cali Mar 2015 #180

Peru, right? nt msanthrope Mar 2015 #278

Indeed it is. And "the key issue on which we are consulting is whether the proposed approach pampango Mar 2015 #145

They want to be the victims of a huge conspiracy treestar Mar 2015 #125

Amazing! 6 1/2 years ago ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #172

The needs for the evidence to point to conspiracies treestar Mar 2015 #187

And the solution ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #201

Yes. The NYT has verified it. See my OP cali Mar 2015 #178

Which OP ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #202

Was there a special on strawmen this week? LondonReign2 Mar 2015 #189

You tell me. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #227

I'm still waiting, with curiosity, for the TPP apologists to show up Jim Lane Mar 2015 #89

Same here. Where are they tonight? Where are the DU "Free Traitors"? Elwood P Dowd Mar 2015 #92

There are a couple in this thread and they pretty much are babbling their usual nonsense. BeanMusical Mar 2015 #97

Yes, because asking questions ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #173

Anonymous leaks are remarkably consistent with early reporting. WillTwain Mar 2015 #235

Because they are (likely) all coming from the same source ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #250

Cheney negotiated U.S. energy policy in secrecy in 2000, did not trust that either. WillTwain Mar 2015 #260

"Strange Bedfellows" aspirant Mar 2015 #270

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz WillTwain Mar 2015 #271

K&R n/t Michigan-Arizona Mar 2015 #93

Assange is a rapist!!1!1! U4ikLefty Mar 2015 #100

I went over to freerepublic to see what they think.. grasswire Mar 2015 #101

I can't imagine they'd support this if they know about it. drm604 Mar 2015 #108

Some DUers refuse to believe this info Omaha Steve Mar 2015 #102

LBN post: Hissyspit Mar 2015 #106

Kick and R. BeanMusical Mar 2015 #107

K&R McCamy Taylor Mar 2015 #111

K&R! This post deserves hundreds of recommendations! Enthusiast Mar 2015 #116

Perhaps someone could boil down all this text to one or two points why people should be worried. randome Mar 2015 #120

This is all about bashing the President and Democrats, it is not about a trade deal. tridim Mar 2015 #131

So are you in favor of the TPP? LondonReign2 Mar 2015 #176

I thought Global Trade Watch did just that.. G_j Mar 2015 #154

A mechanism is in place to sue when disputes arise. randome Mar 2015 #155

Why? Because it is nothing but Obama Bashing 101. It's not about a trade deal. tridim Mar 2015 #157

I know, I know, I was simply being ironic or...something. randome Mar 2015 #160

ugh.. G_j Mar 2015 #162

Yes, people have been hyper-overreacting for years... tridim Mar 2015 #164

why don't you just say you are in favour of NAFTA, CAFTA, TPP G_j Mar 2015 #165

Because I'm not. tridim Mar 2015 #166

that's not worth a serious response G_j Mar 2015 #168

You say you want enlightenment? Start reading this and then form your own opinion on it. Autumn Mar 2015 #156

My opinion is that the TPP is a mechanism that concerns corporations. randome Mar 2015 #161

Not my job to convince you of anything. Autumn Mar 2015 #163

Spreading bullshit is most definitely spreading something. tridim Mar 2015 #167

Now we get to the crux of your displeasure with the discussion of the TPP. Autumn Mar 2015 #170

It's not much of a discussion if I say 'Aye' and you say 'Nay'. randome Mar 2015 #171

Not my job to be on defense either. Autumn Mar 2015 #174

. randome Mar 2015 #175

k&r Starry Messenger Mar 2015 #121

K&R deutsey Mar 2015 #122

No wonder President Obama calls TPP critics ''Conspiracy Theorists.'' Octafish Mar 2015 #129

Quote from Adam Smith: LongTomH Mar 2015 #218

I for One.... Sparhawk60 Mar 2015 #143

A transition to a corporate world government that will hasten the flow of profit to the top 1% PatrickforO Mar 2015 #150

The recipe for global fascism... cascadiance Mar 2015 #151

ISDS favors "us"? Babel_17 Mar 2015 #152

K & R GoneFishin Mar 2015 #153

So does this mean Medicare can't negotiate drug prices because valerief Mar 2015 #177

Yes Aerows Mar 2015 #199

Any safety regulations--on lead in kids' toys, for example--can now be destroyed by lawsuit Wella Mar 2015 #179

And those lawsuits can be refuted by a tribunal. It works both ways. randome Mar 2015 #182

Which destroys sovereignty by making this private (world) tribunal the real arbiters of laws Wella Mar 2015 #183

I, personally, don't have much of a problem with that. randome Mar 2015 #184

It's not a personal issue for you to have a problem with Wella Mar 2015 #185

This piece of shit TPP IS NOT GOING TO UNITE THE WORLD. Elwood P Dowd Mar 2015 #186

How is it at our expense, though? randome Mar 2015 #188

You already said you have no problem losing your sovereignty Rex Mar 2015 #225

The entire tribunal setup is designed to prevent abuse. randome Mar 2015 #228

Thanks for the link I will check it out. Rex Mar 2015 #241

There is only ONE goal for the tribunals: bvar22 Mar 2015 #247

How does giving all the power and control to an elite group of non-governing Rex Mar 2015 #224

Well, the U.N. is involved in the tribunal selection. randome Mar 2015 #230

An Appeals Process???? bvar22 Mar 2015 #240

I'm hoping there is an appeals process. It would make sense to have one. randome Mar 2015 #245

Which means that the sovereignty of this country no longer exists. You may be fine with that sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #207

I don't have a problem giving up some of our sovereignty. randome Mar 2015 #210

Fortunately what you don't have a problem with, isn't relevant. As I said, the 'war' can be sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #216

Those that don't mind being indentured servants will never understand, it seems. Rex Mar 2015 #226

Revolutionary war? Taxation without representation? Aerows Mar 2015 #255

I would hope people on DU can read so, no, I don't expect them to be stupid. randome Mar 2015 #266

Were you the one Aerows Mar 2015 #272

I never said Democracy was outdated. randome Mar 2015 #276

I will agree with you on one point LiberalLovinLug Mar 2015 #283

Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2015 #191

Many work for, few work against. We are what we do, everyday. raouldukelives Mar 2015 #193

Lovely Piece of Legislation d_legendary1 Mar 2015 #212

Stepping ever closer to world wide fascism. eom JEB Mar 2015 #232

A simple way to see things: chknltl Mar 2015 #236

Obama Is All In On This colsohlibgal Mar 2015 #244

You do realize there is currently nothing to prevent corporations from doing business anywhere. randome Mar 2015 #248

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Mar 2015 #259

Hillary helped draft the TPP, so I don't expect much help from her. Maedhros Mar 2015 #263

I know I'm supposed to be unquestionably enraged but I cannot bring myself to do it. great white snark Mar 2015 #249

Invariably. NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #258

so it is basically more bureacracy for the bureaucrats WDIM Mar 2015 #253

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Mar 2015 #254

If we lose our country aspirant Mar 2015 #267

kick rec Teamster Jeff Mar 2015 #273

K&R. woo me with science Mar 2015 #280