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NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)

48. Many things can be a slippery slope.

Fri Mar 27, 2015, 02:28 PM

Mar 2015

I do get your point there. I think the grade of that slope diminishes as long as the proper victim is recognized in the legislation. The anti-choicers want to recognize the fetus as a victim. I think the victim here is clear. If the victim is the mother, I think it somewhat negates the slippery slope. Just some thoughts Trumad. I think there is a way it can be done. I think new laws do need to be enacted in this area. Laws that recognize the true victim. There are laws that will be used against the assailant. They are laws to address most of the crime but not the heinous intent of the crime. Right now, the heinousness of the crime will not be taken directly into account on its own. It will be taken into account at sentencing if found guilty under current laws.

Murder would not be applicable in my opinion because there was no victim or murder. There is a victim here and their grievances go way past attempted murder, assault, or any such current law.

The rights of women can't be minimized due to our fear of the trend of rolling back our current rights. We have the right to carry to term. No laws currently on the books rise to the occasion in this instance. This woman losing her fetus will not be directly recognized under current law. She will always be the victim of a crime where the assailant was not charged with the most egregious part of the act. That part also being the whole intent behind the heinous act.

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Woman accused of cutting unborn baby from mother will not face murder charges [View all] NaturalHigh Mar 2015 OP

Good. Fetal homicide laws are bullshit. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #1

I'm sure the woman called it her baby, not her fetus. Dreamer Tatum Mar 2015 #3

I'm sure she did. But I stand by every word I said. Every one. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #5

Same here. I've yet to meet a pregnant woman who self-applied the word "fetus." Dreamer Tatum Mar 2015 #6

I get what you're saying, but fetal homicide laws are very very dangerous. And NEVER the answer. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #9

So if the baby is more than likely viable outside the womb Dreamer Tatum Mar 2015 #14

Yeah - I'm sure the mother is not quite so dismissive of this crime. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #15

Who's being dismissive? The DA? Voters in Colorado? PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #17

I am not the Boulder County DA. Did you read the article you linked in the OP? PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #16

Abortion is legal in CO up to 26 weeks. That's less than 8 months, so I don't see any conflict ND-Dem Mar 2015 #204

I did. Brickbat Mar 2015 #101

Devils advocate question. NM_Birder Mar 2015 #46

I'll answer your question PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #56

That's a cop-out n/t GCP Mar 2015 #239

Your concern has been noted. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #240

I will go with you Nikki as longas she at least gets close yeoman6987 Mar 2015 #186

the DA says she's facing 100 years. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #187

Thanks Nikki! yeoman6987 Mar 2015 #190

Question: Cali_Democrat Mar 2015 #32

I don't take purity tests. nt Dreamer Tatum Mar 2015 #45

Your failure to answer a simple question indicates cowardice Cali_Democrat Mar 2015 #65

That's why I don't take purity tests - I don't take well to bullies and intimidation. Dreamer Tatum Mar 2015 #68

And you need to. None of us does. Wella Mar 2015 #196

Why do you insist on running around trying to "out" people? Wella Mar 2015 #194

I'm wondering the same thing n/t SickOfTheOnePct Mar 2015 #235

Post removed Post removed Mar 2015 #210

Why wouldn't he/she??? ileus Mar 2015 #122

+1 NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #124

Yeah, she's definitely not going to grieve for that clump of cells that was TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2015 #130

Exactly. Reading some of these replies, one might think she had a tumor removed. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #214

So then by your logic, aborting a baby at 21 weeks is killing a human being. nt Cali_Democrat Mar 2015 #128

Of course, it was a human being TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2015 #132

Fetuses at that stage are rarely if ever viable. nomorenomore08 Mar 2015 #152

No...abortion is a choice. Cutting a "fetus" out of a wanting to be mother is murder. ileus Mar 2015 #160

Your "logic" is to force people into ideological corners Wella Mar 2015 #192

I see you're back doing your thing Wella Mar 2015 #191

What do you think would be an appropriate charge for this woman? NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #11

I am not privy to all of the evidence, details and local laws. I am not an attorney or prosecutor. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #12

Attempted murder (on the mother) KamaAina Mar 2015 #44

She faces other charges too. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #50

So tack on an extra 32 years to all the rest. She'll likely never leave prison. nomorenomore08 Mar 2015 #156

That's cool with me. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #212

+1 Ed Suspicious Mar 2015 #201

I consider life to begin when the baby can survive outside the womb, 8 months snooper2 Mar 2015 #22

That's your opinion and prerogative, but not the law. And shouldn't be. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #23

I do agree. I really do. LiberalAndProud Mar 2015 #28

Agreed. It's a violent, horrific, unimaginable aggravated assault against her. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #30

Agree with this post LeftOfWest Mar 2015 #80

Absolutely agree gollygee Mar 2015 #82

"Fetus" was 8 months gestation. LisaL Mar 2015 #106

Thanks, I can read. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #108

Possibly not comprehend?? nt Logical Mar 2015 #175

Comprehend, what, Logical? What exactly do you think I don't 'get'? PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #176

I don't think this is going well for you. nt Logical Mar 2015 #178

lol, ok... eye of the beholder and all. So, it was really just a quick jab. Noice!! PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #179

Why put the word fetus in quotes? Mariana Mar 2015 #136

How in the WORLD could you reach that conclusion?!! HOW???! Number23 Mar 2015 #120

Basically... Bradical79 Mar 2015 #197

Yes, I think it is 100 years. A drop in the bucket for such a horrible crime Number23 Mar 2015 #198

If the fetus never drew breath, I agree. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2015 #123

I disagree Travis_0004 Mar 2015 #138

Why would being stabbed while non-pregnant not affect her for the rest of her life? lumberjack_jeff Mar 2015 #182

Thank you. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #183

Agree 100% beam me up scottie Mar 2015 #147

Those fetus laws make it so no one concentrates on justice for the woman who was Jamastiene Mar 2015 #241

She could face up to 32 years in prison. Very disturbing story. nt el_bryanto Mar 2015 #2

If the maximum she can get in the case is 32 years... NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #34

Of course it's attempted murder..... daleanime Mar 2015 #4

At eight months, this was a child about to be born. LeftinOH Mar 2015 #7

Agreed. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #10

is it you that says you should be able to make a woman give birth if fetus is yours? seabeyond Mar 2015 #18

Really? What does that have to do with this conversation? NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #19

i'm not surprised you are unable to recognize the relevance. a simple question. i could be wrong seabeyond Mar 2015 #20

No I don't see the relevance of your question. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #29

Every woman on planet earth can see the relevance- and shudder at the bettyellen Mar 2015 #111

Which I didn't do. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #114

Awesome- why don't you shoot me a link to this discussion so I can refresh my memory... bettyellen Mar 2015 #155

You could start here. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #213

Wow, I guess you're none too proud of the conversation we're actually discussing if you bettyellen Mar 2015 #224

I told you that I never advocated for forced birth. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #225

If you claim there's some confusion about an earlier conversation.... bettyellen Mar 2015 #226

Now I just don't know what you're talking about. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #227

Um, what? The fetus/nearly born baby belonged to the mother LeftinOH Mar 2015 #24

Exactly. LisaL Mar 2015 #110

It doesn't, and everybody here knows that. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #117

Fetal homicide laws are used by anti-abortion activists gollygee Mar 2015 #174

at 8 months, the fetus is viable. I would lean towards murder in this case. nt geek tragedy Mar 2015 #8

A horrible crime beyond all bounds of violence packman Mar 2015 #13

they've released the initial autopsy report and the baby didn't show signs of life outside the womb fizzgig Mar 2015 #21

Such a sad situation all around. tammywammy Mar 2015 #25

it really is fizzgig Mar 2015 #27

Just a guess... NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #26

i'm not saying you're right or wrong fizzgig Mar 2015 #31

I'm sure that's right. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #33

That woman will probably never be able to have another child again JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #40

Unfortunately I'm sure that's true. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #42

If you have a little to give JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #43

Thanks - I didn't know that. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #49

Anti-abortion activists are trying to use this attempted-murder victim... countryjake Mar 2015 #116

My husband ran across the give back JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #126

I have a glimmer - but not in this way. JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #127

Not for everyone though. bettyellen Mar 2015 #220

Maybe JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #228

Sure this pregnant woman was enthusiastic but hate to hear people extrapolate that for all women bettyellen Mar 2015 #229

I don't disagree with you JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #230

Discussing the laws used against women is an important thing - and really has nothing to do with bettyellen Mar 2015 #232

No one is diminishing or dismissing this incident. Half of the article linked in the OP is about PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #233

And attempted murder JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #236

My heart breaks for her AND that baby that was literally torn from her womb Number23 Mar 2015 #121

Yeah Number23 JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #125

Yes, I do darling. Number23 Mar 2015 #129

The article linked in the OP brought up fetal homicide laws. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #131

Fetal homicide laws are being brought up because a baby was killed Number23 Mar 2015 #139

Fetus. Did I express confusion about a matter? I was replying to someone who had. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #140

I was talking to someone else and you jumped in. The confusion seems to be yours and yours alone Number23 Mar 2015 #142

This is a discussion board. I will 'jump in' anywhere I like without running it past you. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #143

Cool. But make sure you at least know who/what the fuck you're talking about when you do so Number23 Mar 2015 #146

Why are you being so nasty? PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #148

So you're just an innocent lamb, and didn't start all of this off with your "wha's so hard to Number23 Mar 2015 #153

I was replying to the statement "...for the LIFE of me I have no idea how anyone... PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #162

That wasn't at all what I was referring to. But your comments are so agressive and ignorant Number23 Mar 2015 #167

wow. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #169

There are more appropriate charges- unwanted termination of pregnancy that do not turn bettyellen Mar 2015 #141

That is not in any way applicable to this case. What the fuck are you guys trying to do in this Number23 Mar 2015 #144

Discuss. It's a discussion board. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #145

There's nothing to discuss. So let's just leave it at that because I am truly starting to get pissed Number23 Mar 2015 #149

Again, why are you being so nasty? If you can't control yourself, step away. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #150

You've got more posts in this thread than anyone. If ANYBODY needs to back off Number23 Mar 2015 #154

No, thank you. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #157

I'm sorry! Not sure if we' we ever discussed the issue... bettyellen Mar 2015 #151

It should be important to everyone Number23 Mar 2015 #158

kthxbai PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #159

Is it okay with you if the people I am actually TALKING to respond to my posts? Number23 Mar 2015 #165

Again, why are you being so nasty? I have not been. I am passionate about women's rights PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #168

You are being nasty and obnoxious as hell and got the nerve to wonder why you're being called out Number23 Mar 2015 #170

wow. miss you already!! PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #171

Your earlier "apology" feels as genuine as your "passion" and "commitment" for women's rights Number23 Mar 2015 #172

bye!!! PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #173

With the UTMOST pleasure! Number23 Mar 2015 #177

Okay, I'm jumping in here, too. Yes, lots of us have issues... countryjake Mar 2015 #185

The issues are not with her feelings about this subject but with the way she is running up and down Number23 Mar 2015 #188

I did not attack. Ever. You have repeatedly. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #189

That's what I call a failure to communicate... countryjake Mar 2015 #202

There's no doubt that you and I are definitely on the same page Number23 Mar 2015 #206

I fully understand your heartache JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #215

It's not that hard to understand. beam me up scottie Mar 2015 #163

Child was viable... That was murder... Oktober Mar 2015 #35

Death Penalty is appropriate? trumad Mar 2015 #37

I disagree... Oktober Mar 2015 #38

Well you are for the death penalty. trumad Mar 2015 #39

Is there any chance that this woman is not the one who killed the child... Oktober Mar 2015 #47

You can't pick and choose for the DP... trumad Mar 2015 #52

Fair enough... Oktober Mar 2015 #99

Oh cool! Equating a breathing living woman to a "crib"... countryjake Mar 2015 #118

They probably didn't realize the implication of what they said. But I hope they do now. n/t nomorenomore08 Mar 2015 #161

Not really... Oktober Mar 2015 #216

Of course it is murder, but so is capital punishment. stone space Mar 2015 #59

I think our whole thoughts on justice and penalties needs to be rethought. NCTraveler Mar 2015 #36

Slippery slope. trumad Mar 2015 #41

Many things can be a slippery slope. NCTraveler Mar 2015 #48

she is being charged with unwanted termination of pregnancy rebecca_herman Mar 2015 #209

I am glad to hear this. n/t lumberjack_jeff Mar 2015 #211

Thank you for replying. NCTraveler Mar 2015 #219

Bitch should rot in prison. nt B2G Mar 2015 #51

I agree - she shouldn't see the outside again. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #53

After chance of viability (21 wks?) outside the womb, I think it should be considered murder. woodsprite Mar 2015 #54

So do I. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #55

No way. those ridiculous laws are used against women. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #58

There's a huge difference between a natural occuring miscarriage and having a baby woodsprite Mar 2015 #60

Not to anti choicers, there's not. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #61

That's really not the point though. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #70

yes. it is. women's reproductive rights are under full scale assault. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #83

Well, nothing says assault like having your belly ripped open and your fetus stolen. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #84

it's an aggravated assault against her and should be treated as such. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #86

No crime concerning the fetus, eh? NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #87

Why do you act like I think this was not an egregious crime? PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #88

It just seems to me that you're being very dismissive... NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #92

Because it is a slippery slope. It's not dismissive, it's a fact. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #93

Okay. I guess this will be one of this "agree to disagree" things. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #94

This is where these laws lead gollygee Mar 2015 #97

But it's still not a murder charge. The distinction is important, especially in today's political nomorenomore08 Mar 2015 #166

It absolutely is the point. Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #107

You and I know there's a huge difference. But we're also sane, rational people. nomorenomore08 Mar 2015 #164

FFS, are you saying if someone stabbed a mother in the abdomen at 8 months and killed.... Logical Mar 2015 #180

I support the everything the DA charged her with. I support aggravated assault/attempted murder PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #181

IMHO you stated that very well (nt) Orrex Mar 2015 #193

Thank you, Orrex. There's been some confusion on this thread about my feelings and I think I've made PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #195

good job handmade34 Mar 2015 #199

thank you. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #200

"I believe women should have complete control of their body"... NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #218

But if the victim had instead miscarried in some parts of the US... Orrex Mar 2015 #57

They would have thrown her in jail JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #64

Surely we could all agree on a place between two extremes. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #67

In the current case, a charge of attempted 1st degree murder seems appropriate Orrex Mar 2015 #72

I agree with that, but I also agree with the Colorado fetus law... NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #75

+1 ChazII Mar 2015 #105

This message was self-deleted by its author JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #62

News conference late this afternoon but from last week . . . JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #63

"This isn't just going to go away." NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #66

She should spend life in prison LittleBlue Mar 2015 #69

Absolutely. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #71

Can't be in Colorado JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #73

No - it's not a law in Colorado JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #78

I know why it can't happen LittleBlue Mar 2015 #79

I know JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #81

OK. How about we don't call it "murder", we call it "unlawful fetal homicide" or whatever, Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #74

I'm cool with that. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #76

There are a few states that don't have fetal homicide laws JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #77

how about, hell no. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #85

OK, let's call carving a viable fetus out of a pregnant woman an "aggravating circumstance", Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #89

it's awful. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #90

Great idea. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #91

See, the 'regardless of how it's done' is the slippery slope. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #95

I said absolutely nothing like that. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #96

Do you support fetal homicide laws? PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #98

In some cases, yes. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #100

Awful. And dismissive of women. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #102

So you think it's okey to cut out fetuses out of women who don't want an abortion? LisaL Mar 2015 #112

where the fuck did I say that? PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #113

No that would be assault and attempted or actual murder. Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #119

Sorry you feel that way. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #115

seriously. Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #109

Utter bullshit Telcontar Mar 2015 #103

Thank you. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #104

Abortion rights are not irrelevant A Little Weird Mar 2015 #184

It was not an abortion Telcontar Mar 2015 #207

No it was not A Little Weird Mar 2015 #208

Charges are in! JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #133

And I hope she's convicted on all counts and serves the maximum sentence. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #134

Me too! JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #135

Amen. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #137

It was an 8 mo baby cut from the mother's womb and it's not murder? You can't get an ND-Dem Mar 2015 #203

"It ought to be *something*." NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #217

Cases like this are a Republicans wet dream... Lancero Mar 2015 #205

Yep, lotsa good Dems are uneducated about the attacks on women's autonomy.... bettyellen Mar 2015 #221

I feel conflicted about this one davidpdx Mar 2015 #222

Believe me, I do understand the conflict. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #223

She IS facing attempted murder JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #231

I think the charges they filed are good SickOfTheOnePct Mar 2015 #234

I just hope she gets a long sentence. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #238

Life begins at first breath, that's why we call it birthdays. This woman attempted to kill the B Calm Mar 2015 #237