General Discussion

randome

(34,845 posts)

42. You're mistaken about those 27 chapters.

Fri Mar 27, 2015, 03:28 PM

Mar 2015

As was pointed out in cali's thread, the only thing that is secret is the negotiations themselves, not the policies. Otherwise, no one would be able to enforce a thing.

Which is sort of what we have now. The TPP provides an enforcement mechanism that straddles the line between a country opening up to greater trade and predatory corporations.

Disputes go to the tribunal, not the corporations. And at least one member of that tribunal is to be appointed by the Secretary General of the U.N.

And no, I'm not gung-ho about the treaty, I just don't see it as that much different from the hundreds of other treaties we've entered into during the past fifty years or so.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

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Now We Know Why Huge TPP Trade Deal Is Kept Secret From The Public [View all] Panich52 Mar 2015 OP

And this is just one chapter out of twenty-eight secret corporate-written chapters. djean111 Mar 2015 #1

Ironically, I heard someone use that very reason to PUSH the TPP Populist_Prole Mar 2015 #5

Yes, this issue has really shone a very bright light on that. djean111 Mar 2015 #7

This issue has shown some light around DU too. bvar22 Mar 2015 #112

+1 Scuba Mar 2015 #169

K&R woo me with science Mar 2015 #2

Trust us. Octafish Mar 2015 #3

Bush has nothing to do with this deal. donnasgirl Mar 2015 #13

Think again. Dont call me Shirley Mar 2015 #16

Here is prt of the article, donnasgirl Mar 2015 #24

It was started under bush 1/reagan with nafta. TPP is a continuation of corporate globalization. Dont call me Shirley Mar 2015 #43

And will be donnasgirl Mar 2015 #59

Call your Senators, Representatives and Whitehouse to express your opposition to this global Dont call me Shirley Mar 2015 #184

For more than a century these creatures have had their fingers in the muck gordianot Mar 2015 #18

Until i see proof donnasgirl Mar 2015 #22

Well you can read the article that was posted to you. Rex Mar 2015 #26

Yes i do donnasgirl Mar 2015 #29

SO again, what part do you need to see that would convince you? Rex Mar 2015 #30

Truthfully donnasgirl Mar 2015 #32

Well both sides are controlled by Wall Street. Rex Mar 2015 #33

Exellent post Rex donnasgirl Mar 2015 #34

It's surprising to watch lawmakers support disaster capitalism. Rex Mar 2015 #35

Bingo! Scuba Mar 2015 #170

TPP negotiations were started during George W Bush "administration." Octafish Mar 2015 #25

'was stalled in Congress under intense public pressure'. That was encouraging, that the public sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #89

TPP = Welfare for the Wealthy Octafish Mar 2015 #93

Wait, listen intently aspirant Mar 2015 #96

We need make sure it is not a Secret, We need to organize a day to Reps on this Issue lewebley3 Mar 2015 #4

It is TPP. Another, just as bad, IMO, currently negotiated agreement is the TTIP. djean111 Mar 2015 #8

Saw reports from Europe also, major issues. TPP, Global Corporate Coup D'etat, for the 1% appalachiablue Mar 2015 #65

Love Dave Johnson. One of the good guys fightin' & writin' for US! RiverLover Mar 2015 #6

I think the definition of 'expected' profits is missing from this conversation. randome Mar 2015 #9

And when do you suppose we'll have the full document to peruse? gratuitous Mar 2015 #14

NT ctsnowman Mar 2015 #19

I'll never say to blindly trust any politician. Even Obama. randome Mar 2015 #21

Yet you seemingly are blindly trusting corporations? Riiiggggghttt. Rex Mar 2015 #27

Congress isn't going to resolve every single trade dispute that comes up. randome Mar 2015 #36

OH no doubt there can always be something worse. Rex Mar 2015 #38

You're mistaken about those 27 chapters. randome Mar 2015 #42

The other treaties as far as I know don't override national sovereignty. Also they are secret to us. Rex Mar 2015 #46

You keep going on about that 4 year period. randome Mar 2015 #50

So what if it a one-time thing, why need 4 years at all? Rex Mar 2015 #81

This is being molded by the major corporations for their benefit ast our expense. It's that simple. rhett o rick Mar 2015 #144

How is this at our expense? What are we losing by corporations having access to other countries? randome Mar 2015 #166

Access to other countries doesn't necessarily hurt, but what the frack does "access" rhett o rick Mar 2015 #173

Corporations will go wherever the hell they want regardless. randome Mar 2015 #183

"How is this at our expense?" Ask Sen Brown rhett o rick Mar 2015 #180

Then he should vote 'No' as should everyone else who doesn't like the Investor definition. randome Mar 2015 #185

Been to the Mexican Border towns latly? bvar22 Mar 2015 #196

No, and I don't plan to. randome Mar 2015 #199

Educate yourself to the horrors of "Free Trade". bvar22 Mar 2015 #200

Yeah.... bvar22 Mar 2015 #205

You can sit around and wait for it to be made public Aerows Mar 2015 #49

What possible difference does it make to know how negotiations went before ratification? randome Mar 2015 #52

I'll pass Aerows Mar 2015 #55

Thanks. I'm embarrassed enough as it is. randome Mar 2015 #58

I'm not sure of anyone's motivations gratuitous Mar 2015 #83

Understandable but it doesn't preclude the need to beat China to the punch this time. randome Mar 2015 #168

Why a Tribunal? aspirant Mar 2015 #37

That way you don't have to worry about laws passed by nations. Rex Mar 2015 #40

It's a Global Corporate Coup D' etat, Buy-Partisan appalachiablue Mar 2015 #63

It is so stupid, that it will fail right out of the starting gate. Rex Mar 2015 #84

Hope so for sure. In the other post now about no word from POTUS on TPP a poster appalachiablue Mar 2015 #86

Yep. pa28 Mar 2015 #130

Congress certainly can't resolve a damned thing. randome Mar 2015 #45

"A more tightly interwoven economic system makes the prospect of war less likely." Rex Mar 2015 #48

No, it doesn't. Country E cannot impose high tariffs or bogus laws to keep a specific company out. randome Mar 2015 #53

If the picture is incomplete aspirant Mar 2015 #56

I don't. Since only one part of the treaty has been leaked, we don't have the full picture. randome Mar 2015 #60

Did the WH aspirant Mar 2015 #66

Klein is the same as you or me: he's making it up as he goes along with whatever info is available. randome Mar 2015 #71

Why would you refer me to Klein's guesses aspirant Mar 2015 #76

And who will enforce these laws? What standing does a tribunal with one UN member have? Rex Mar 2015 #78

Peace aspirant Mar 2015 #51

I would hope such things would be part of the consideration but so far I don't see any sign of it. randome Mar 2015 #57

Is Ezra Klein part aspirant Mar 2015 #61

Because human beings, by nature, are sneaky bastards. randome Mar 2015 #62

Are you saying that Ezra Klein aspirant Mar 2015 #68

Oh, come on, I was talking about your free market reference. randome Mar 2015 #70

A free and open market aspirant Mar 2015 #79

And Tribunal A tazkcmo Mar 2015 #192

Sure, it could work out that way. But let's see what the final draft has to say. randome Mar 2015 #198

I'm shocked that a far-left liberal like you would write such a thing. Shocked. Scuba Mar 2015 #171

I think we can look at allthe previous "Free Trade" Treaties, bvar22 Mar 2015 #194

Fair enough. But Obama has characterized the TPP as a rewrite of NAFTA. randome Mar 2015 #197

Obama "says" a lot of things. bvar22 Mar 2015 #201

So this is, in effect, the ceding of national sovereignty and laws hifiguy Mar 2015 #10

While we're calling the Cotton 47 traitors Jack Rabbit Mar 2015 #12

Larry Summers and the Secret "End-Game" Memo Octafish Mar 2015 #28

"Fuck everyone who had anything to do with negotiating this monstrosity." Obama? L0oniX Mar 2015 #41

If you want to view trade dispute tribunals as ceding sovereignty, then it was done at least 20 Hoyt Mar 2015 #47

So your point is to give in to it and STFU? Got it. L0oniX Mar 2015 #69

Point is this is not something new, and some conspiracy by Obama to sell you down the river. Hoyt Mar 2015 #72

Glad to know who's side of the oligarchy fence you're on. L0oniX Mar 2015 #74

Oh come on now. This has been going on since the tea tax rebellion. L0oniX Mar 2015 #77

Secret star-chamber tribunals consisting of lawyers hifiguy Mar 2015 #80

kr ND-Dem Mar 2015 #11

Thank Jeebus for Wikileaks!! AzDar Mar 2015 #15

a plug for Johnson: Widely regarded as one of the most knowledgeable cali Mar 2015 #17

Call your Senators, Representatives and Whitehouse to express your opposition to this global Dont call me Shirley Mar 2015 #20

I'll wait for the final version before judging n2doc Mar 2015 #23

If "labor organizers are murdered," that is a criminal offense, not a possible Hoyt Mar 2015 #31

Like Coke had people killed for trying to organize a union in S. America. L0oniX Mar 2015 #39

And how Coke created the orange drink, FANTA just for the Nazis during WWII to appalachiablue Mar 2015 #67

And this thing will probably be rammed through anyway Lee-Lee Mar 2015 #44

It is rather odd Aerows Mar 2015 #54

+1000. closeupready Mar 2015 #190

Name the negotiators. Skidmore Mar 2015 #64

Michael Froman is the US Trade Representative, appointed by Obama. Each of the 12 countries involved Hoyt Mar 2015 #75

That is how NAFTA works, and it isn't secret BainsBane Mar 2015 #73

So do I understand that you are fully onboard for Fast Tracking the TPP? nm rhett o rick Mar 2015 #174

No, you do not understand at all BainsBane Mar 2015 #189

Those interested in knowing such things ... NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #82

So... aspirant Mar 2015 #85

Not the point. NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #87

Getting to the point. aspirant Mar 2015 #88

If you are interested ... NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #90

The People's Way. aspirant Mar 2015 #91

If you're not happy with the process ... NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #95

Aren't you an appropiate person? aspirant Mar 2015 #98

Actually, no, I'm not the appropriate person. NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #101

"Behind Closed Doors" is that an NSA thing? aspirant Mar 2015 #107

No, I am not an expert. NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #119

Progress aspirant Mar 2015 #124

Fine. NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #125

Change aspirant Mar 2015 #127

I post here ... NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #128

Posting has meaning and transparency, a worthy goal. aspirant Mar 2015 #132

I am amused ... NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #133

Are you also amused aspirant Mar 2015 #134

My posts in the HRC group ... NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #135

So... aspirant Mar 2015 #136

So ... NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #138

Will you be in secret negotiations aspirant Mar 2015 #139

If I knew what you were on about ... NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #140

Not knowing aspirant Mar 2015 #143

So supporting HRC ... NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #145

Obama hasn't finished his term aspirant Mar 2015 #146

Hmm, yeah, okay ... NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #147

You betcha, right aspirant Mar 2015 #148

The fact that you believe ... NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #150

Nice try aspirant Mar 2015 #152

Given that ... NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #154

Life is all about choices and aspirant Mar 2015 #160

If you think ... NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #162

You said that aspirant Mar 2015 #163

Should I start with ... NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #164

We all learn from our mistakes aspirant Mar 2015 #165

So you post for amusement in GD, but you're serious in the HRC group? DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2015 #202

You did not say this before, so you cannot say it now? WillTwain Mar 2015 #115

I'm still waiting for those links ... NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #151

Tell her to check every post you have ever made. That is her gig. WillTwain Mar 2015 #110

From the Hope and Change president, who ran on transparency WillTwain Mar 2015 #92

More transparency in gov't does not mean ... NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #97

Only the things that matter, like wages and benefits. Another failure for the POTUS. WillTwain Mar 2015 #100

Okay, let me educate you. NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #104

Are you fervantly fighting aspirant Mar 2015 #108

One need not be an "expert educator" ... NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #113

Opinions can be shared. aspirant Mar 2015 #120

When DU discussions ... NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #123

Evolve or Devolve? aspirant Mar 2015 #126

Are you serious? See nearly every post you have made on TPP spanning months. WillTwain Mar 2015 #109

In other words ... NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #116

Believe me your interpretation of my words means very little to me. The Transparant President, OK WillTwain Mar 2015 #118

LINK or SLINK. NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #121

You are walking to the end of a plank WillTwain Mar 2015 #122

I don't know what you're on about with the "yawn comment". NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #131

You are somewhat famous for your pretentious "yawn." Do not make me expose it. WillTwain Mar 2015 #153

Oh, by all means ... NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #157

This message was self-deleted by its author NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #141

Post removed Post removed Mar 2015 #142

Nance, I am not as you say "a fucking liar." WillTwain Mar 2015 #156

LINK or SLINK. NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #158

"Another yawn like Trumka's warning?" Does this ring a bell? WillTwain Mar 2015 #204

Post removed Post removed Mar 2015 #206

Mr. Trumka's words speak for themselves WillTwain Mar 2015 #208

As you are speaking for Nance, please have her apologize the "yawn" comment is posted WillTwain Mar 2015 #210

Oh, and her post Jeff Rosenzweig Mar 2015 #207

Does Nance have a response to the Yawn quote posted that she wrote but denied writing. WillTwain Mar 2015 #209

Post removed Post removed Mar 2015 #193

Edit Post WillTwain Mar 2015 #195

Jury results for 193 DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2015 #203

Victory lap? Bobbie Jo Mar 2015 #212

It's information. And yes, I'm the alerter. Further questions? DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2015 #213

Good jury results. 840high Mar 2015 #215

? Bobbie Jo Mar 2015 #217

It's information. Bobbie Jo Mar 2015 #216

Let me know if you find a point to make. DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2015 #218

I made my point. Bobbie Jo Mar 2015 #220

This sucks! I like NanceGreggs. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #214

I believe Nance got the boot for too many offenses. WillTwain Mar 2015 #221

I suggest you both use ignore. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #222

I just want to say WillTwain Mar 2015 #224

I still advise you to use ignore. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #226

Point Taken WillTwain Mar 2015 #227

Sorry I missed that Bobbie Jo Mar 2015 #223

I know everything I need to know about you. You filled in all the gaps with a few words. WillTwain Mar 2015 #225

Who gives a shit? Bobbie Jo Mar 2015 #228

Friend of Nance? WillTwain Mar 2015 #229

Long before you dropped in here. Bobbie Jo Mar 2015 #230

You are her equal WillTwain Mar 2015 #231

The only way you can teach me is if you email me a wiki page. WillTwain Mar 2015 #232

Public Awareness, sunshine matters. aspirant Mar 2015 #103

Yes, NAFTA was fast-tracked and that ended well for us. WillTwain Mar 2015 #105

Greater transparency in gov't ... NanceGreggs Mar 2015 #111

Transparency: The greater or lesser evil aspirant Mar 2015 #114

To place the TPP with "every" other is illogical. It is big. WillTwain Mar 2015 #117

I'm interested.. I didn't know that. You'd think from reading "Secret!" around here for the last Cha Mar 2015 #94

Many hoped he changed and lived up to his word on transparency WillTwain Mar 2015 #102

Like Nance said.. these trade deals have always been in secret.. there's more involved than just Cha Mar 2015 #149

So you're response to those that want more transparency (like BO promised), rhett o rick Mar 2015 #176

Thanks. 840high Mar 2015 #219

Wrong Nance, not ALL trade agreements are in secret RiverLover Mar 2015 #167

Do you have a point here? Do you support Fast Tracking the TPP? nm rhett o rick Mar 2015 #175

Do you understand what 'Fast Track' means? randome Mar 2015 #179

Yes I know what it means. It means limited debate and up or down vote. rhett o rick Mar 2015 #182

So some economists and progressives have raised concerns? Good! randome Mar 2015 #186

My question was which economists and progressive favor the TPP? rhett o rick Mar 2015 #187

It's also naive to think Obama doesn't understand those concerns. randome Mar 2015 #188

This is wrong thinking: "I will never say to trust anyone blindly but he is not someone who wants to rhett o rick Mar 2015 #191

Don't you get it? OrwellwasRight Apr 2015 #234

Well we can secede from the USA I guess. glinda Mar 2015 #99

We need to kick the damn conservatives out of the Democratic Party. nm rhett o rick Mar 2015 #178

I am on board with that! glinda Mar 2015 #233

The TPP is an act of treason. Enthusiast Mar 2015 #106

It's secret for a reason. It's dangerous and will harm the American working class while GoneFishin Mar 2015 #129

...^ that 840high Mar 2015 #137

OK, i'll be the lone dissenter: the TPP is beneficial. Yorktown Mar 2015 #155

You forgot the sarcasm and rolling on floor laughing smilies in your post. (nm) Elwood P Dowd Mar 2015 #159

I like using smileys Yorktown Mar 2015 #161

Your naivity is awesome. How I miss the days of my childhood. Scuba Mar 2015 #172

And you have some source for your "theory"? rhett o rick Mar 2015 #177

Pie in the sky conspiracy theories? OrwellwasRight Apr 2015 #235

But he's so cute Doctor_J Mar 2015 #181

another reason I'm not happy w/Pres. O wordpix Mar 2015 #211