General Discussion

JustAnotherGen

(38,176 posts)

215. I fully understand your heartache

Sat Mar 28, 2015, 07:54 AM

Mar 2015

There is such an extreme disconnect between the Medical and Legal communities on these issues.

Your physician "shrugged shoulders" - the Law - without any regard for what I know first hand - the shrugged shoulders and how much it bites at you -

Made a legal issue out of personal loss and pain.

I like the Unwanted Termination of Pregnancy laws. I think the DA got it right with that - and it opens the door for women to fight back against a harsh medical community that treats us like FSH, motility, eggs, embryos, etc etc. There's a woman in my fertility group who her second transfer had a non viable pregnancy that she carried to term. The ART facility refused to work with her after that because it hurt their numbers.

Her choice - her husband's choice to give those organs that were viable to a human being who needed them.

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Woman accused of cutting unborn baby from mother will not face murder charges [View all] NaturalHigh Mar 2015 OP

Good. Fetal homicide laws are bullshit. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #1

I'm sure the woman called it her baby, not her fetus. Dreamer Tatum Mar 2015 #3

I'm sure she did. But I stand by every word I said. Every one. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #5

Same here. I've yet to meet a pregnant woman who self-applied the word "fetus." Dreamer Tatum Mar 2015 #6

I get what you're saying, but fetal homicide laws are very very dangerous. And NEVER the answer. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #9

So if the baby is more than likely viable outside the womb Dreamer Tatum Mar 2015 #14

Yeah - I'm sure the mother is not quite so dismissive of this crime. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #15

Who's being dismissive? The DA? Voters in Colorado? PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #17

I am not the Boulder County DA. Did you read the article you linked in the OP? PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #16

Abortion is legal in CO up to 26 weeks. That's less than 8 months, so I don't see any conflict ND-Dem Mar 2015 #204

I did. Brickbat Mar 2015 #101

Devils advocate question. NM_Birder Mar 2015 #46

I'll answer your question PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #56

That's a cop-out n/t GCP Mar 2015 #239

Your concern has been noted. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #240

I will go with you Nikki as longas she at least gets close yeoman6987 Mar 2015 #186

the DA says she's facing 100 years. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #187

Thanks Nikki! yeoman6987 Mar 2015 #190

Question: Cali_Democrat Mar 2015 #32

I don't take purity tests. nt Dreamer Tatum Mar 2015 #45

Your failure to answer a simple question indicates cowardice Cali_Democrat Mar 2015 #65

That's why I don't take purity tests - I don't take well to bullies and intimidation. Dreamer Tatum Mar 2015 #68

And you need to. None of us does. Wella Mar 2015 #196

Why do you insist on running around trying to "out" people? Wella Mar 2015 #194

I'm wondering the same thing n/t SickOfTheOnePct Mar 2015 #235

Post removed Post removed Mar 2015 #210

Why wouldn't he/she??? ileus Mar 2015 #122

+1 NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #124

Yeah, she's definitely not going to grieve for that clump of cells that was TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2015 #130

Exactly. Reading some of these replies, one might think she had a tumor removed. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #214

So then by your logic, aborting a baby at 21 weeks is killing a human being. nt Cali_Democrat Mar 2015 #128

Of course, it was a human being TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2015 #132

Fetuses at that stage are rarely if ever viable. nomorenomore08 Mar 2015 #152

No...abortion is a choice. Cutting a "fetus" out of a wanting to be mother is murder. ileus Mar 2015 #160

Your "logic" is to force people into ideological corners Wella Mar 2015 #192

I see you're back doing your thing Wella Mar 2015 #191

What do you think would be an appropriate charge for this woman? NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #11

I am not privy to all of the evidence, details and local laws. I am not an attorney or prosecutor. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #12

Attempted murder (on the mother) KamaAina Mar 2015 #44

She faces other charges too. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #50

So tack on an extra 32 years to all the rest. She'll likely never leave prison. nomorenomore08 Mar 2015 #156

That's cool with me. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #212

+1 Ed Suspicious Mar 2015 #201

I consider life to begin when the baby can survive outside the womb, 8 months snooper2 Mar 2015 #22

That's your opinion and prerogative, but not the law. And shouldn't be. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #23

I do agree. I really do. LiberalAndProud Mar 2015 #28

Agreed. It's a violent, horrific, unimaginable aggravated assault against her. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #30

Agree with this post LeftOfWest Mar 2015 #80

Absolutely agree gollygee Mar 2015 #82

"Fetus" was 8 months gestation. LisaL Mar 2015 #106

Thanks, I can read. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #108

Possibly not comprehend?? nt Logical Mar 2015 #175

Comprehend, what, Logical? What exactly do you think I don't 'get'? PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #176

I don't think this is going well for you. nt Logical Mar 2015 #178

lol, ok... eye of the beholder and all. So, it was really just a quick jab. Noice!! PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #179

Why put the word fetus in quotes? Mariana Mar 2015 #136

How in the WORLD could you reach that conclusion?!! HOW???! Number23 Mar 2015 #120

Basically... Bradical79 Mar 2015 #197

Yes, I think it is 100 years. A drop in the bucket for such a horrible crime Number23 Mar 2015 #198

If the fetus never drew breath, I agree. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2015 #123

I disagree Travis_0004 Mar 2015 #138

Why would being stabbed while non-pregnant not affect her for the rest of her life? lumberjack_jeff Mar 2015 #182

Thank you. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #183

Agree 100% beam me up scottie Mar 2015 #147

Those fetus laws make it so no one concentrates on justice for the woman who was Jamastiene Mar 2015 #241

She could face up to 32 years in prison. Very disturbing story. nt el_bryanto Mar 2015 #2

If the maximum she can get in the case is 32 years... NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #34

Of course it's attempted murder..... daleanime Mar 2015 #4

At eight months, this was a child about to be born. LeftinOH Mar 2015 #7

Agreed. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #10

is it you that says you should be able to make a woman give birth if fetus is yours? seabeyond Mar 2015 #18

Really? What does that have to do with this conversation? NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #19

i'm not surprised you are unable to recognize the relevance. a simple question. i could be wrong seabeyond Mar 2015 #20

No I don't see the relevance of your question. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #29

Every woman on planet earth can see the relevance- and shudder at the bettyellen Mar 2015 #111

Which I didn't do. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #114

Awesome- why don't you shoot me a link to this discussion so I can refresh my memory... bettyellen Mar 2015 #155

You could start here. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #213

Wow, I guess you're none too proud of the conversation we're actually discussing if you bettyellen Mar 2015 #224

I told you that I never advocated for forced birth. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #225

If you claim there's some confusion about an earlier conversation.... bettyellen Mar 2015 #226

Now I just don't know what you're talking about. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #227

Um, what? The fetus/nearly born baby belonged to the mother LeftinOH Mar 2015 #24

Exactly. LisaL Mar 2015 #110

It doesn't, and everybody here knows that. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #117

Fetal homicide laws are used by anti-abortion activists gollygee Mar 2015 #174

at 8 months, the fetus is viable. I would lean towards murder in this case. nt geek tragedy Mar 2015 #8

A horrible crime beyond all bounds of violence packman Mar 2015 #13

they've released the initial autopsy report and the baby didn't show signs of life outside the womb fizzgig Mar 2015 #21

Such a sad situation all around. tammywammy Mar 2015 #25

it really is fizzgig Mar 2015 #27

Just a guess... NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #26

i'm not saying you're right or wrong fizzgig Mar 2015 #31

I'm sure that's right. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #33

That woman will probably never be able to have another child again JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #40

Unfortunately I'm sure that's true. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #42

If you have a little to give JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #43

Thanks - I didn't know that. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #49

Anti-abortion activists are trying to use this attempted-murder victim... countryjake Mar 2015 #116

My husband ran across the give back JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #126

I have a glimmer - but not in this way. JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #127

Not for everyone though. bettyellen Mar 2015 #220

Maybe JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #228

Sure this pregnant woman was enthusiastic but hate to hear people extrapolate that for all women bettyellen Mar 2015 #229

I don't disagree with you JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #230

Discussing the laws used against women is an important thing - and really has nothing to do with bettyellen Mar 2015 #232

No one is diminishing or dismissing this incident. Half of the article linked in the OP is about PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #233

And attempted murder JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #236

My heart breaks for her AND that baby that was literally torn from her womb Number23 Mar 2015 #121

Yeah Number23 JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #125

Yes, I do darling. Number23 Mar 2015 #129

The article linked in the OP brought up fetal homicide laws. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #131

Fetal homicide laws are being brought up because a baby was killed Number23 Mar 2015 #139

Fetus. Did I express confusion about a matter? I was replying to someone who had. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #140

I was talking to someone else and you jumped in. The confusion seems to be yours and yours alone Number23 Mar 2015 #142

This is a discussion board. I will 'jump in' anywhere I like without running it past you. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #143

Cool. But make sure you at least know who/what the fuck you're talking about when you do so Number23 Mar 2015 #146

Why are you being so nasty? PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #148

So you're just an innocent lamb, and didn't start all of this off with your "wha's so hard to Number23 Mar 2015 #153

I was replying to the statement "...for the LIFE of me I have no idea how anyone... PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #162

That wasn't at all what I was referring to. But your comments are so agressive and ignorant Number23 Mar 2015 #167

wow. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #169

There are more appropriate charges- unwanted termination of pregnancy that do not turn bettyellen Mar 2015 #141

That is not in any way applicable to this case. What the fuck are you guys trying to do in this Number23 Mar 2015 #144

Discuss. It's a discussion board. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #145

There's nothing to discuss. So let's just leave it at that because I am truly starting to get pissed Number23 Mar 2015 #149

Again, why are you being so nasty? If you can't control yourself, step away. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #150

You've got more posts in this thread than anyone. If ANYBODY needs to back off Number23 Mar 2015 #154

No, thank you. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #157

I'm sorry! Not sure if we' we ever discussed the issue... bettyellen Mar 2015 #151

It should be important to everyone Number23 Mar 2015 #158

kthxbai PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #159

Is it okay with you if the people I am actually TALKING to respond to my posts? Number23 Mar 2015 #165

Again, why are you being so nasty? I have not been. I am passionate about women's rights PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #168

You are being nasty and obnoxious as hell and got the nerve to wonder why you're being called out Number23 Mar 2015 #170

wow. miss you already!! PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #171

Your earlier "apology" feels as genuine as your "passion" and "commitment" for women's rights Number23 Mar 2015 #172

bye!!! PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #173

With the UTMOST pleasure! Number23 Mar 2015 #177

Okay, I'm jumping in here, too. Yes, lots of us have issues... countryjake Mar 2015 #185

The issues are not with her feelings about this subject but with the way she is running up and down Number23 Mar 2015 #188

I did not attack. Ever. You have repeatedly. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #189

That's what I call a failure to communicate... countryjake Mar 2015 #202

There's no doubt that you and I are definitely on the same page Number23 Mar 2015 #206

I fully understand your heartache JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #215

It's not that hard to understand. beam me up scottie Mar 2015 #163

Child was viable... That was murder... Oktober Mar 2015 #35

Death Penalty is appropriate? trumad Mar 2015 #37

I disagree... Oktober Mar 2015 #38

Well you are for the death penalty. trumad Mar 2015 #39

Is there any chance that this woman is not the one who killed the child... Oktober Mar 2015 #47

You can't pick and choose for the DP... trumad Mar 2015 #52

Fair enough... Oktober Mar 2015 #99

Oh cool! Equating a breathing living woman to a "crib"... countryjake Mar 2015 #118

They probably didn't realize the implication of what they said. But I hope they do now. n/t nomorenomore08 Mar 2015 #161

Not really... Oktober Mar 2015 #216

Of course it is murder, but so is capital punishment. stone space Mar 2015 #59

I think our whole thoughts on justice and penalties needs to be rethought. NCTraveler Mar 2015 #36

Slippery slope. trumad Mar 2015 #41

Many things can be a slippery slope. NCTraveler Mar 2015 #48

she is being charged with unwanted termination of pregnancy rebecca_herman Mar 2015 #209

I am glad to hear this. n/t lumberjack_jeff Mar 2015 #211

Thank you for replying. NCTraveler Mar 2015 #219

Bitch should rot in prison. nt B2G Mar 2015 #51

I agree - she shouldn't see the outside again. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #53

After chance of viability (21 wks?) outside the womb, I think it should be considered murder. woodsprite Mar 2015 #54

So do I. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #55

No way. those ridiculous laws are used against women. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #58

There's a huge difference between a natural occuring miscarriage and having a baby woodsprite Mar 2015 #60

Not to anti choicers, there's not. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #61

That's really not the point though. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #70

yes. it is. women's reproductive rights are under full scale assault. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #83

Well, nothing says assault like having your belly ripped open and your fetus stolen. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #84

it's an aggravated assault against her and should be treated as such. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #86

No crime concerning the fetus, eh? NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #87

Why do you act like I think this was not an egregious crime? PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #88

It just seems to me that you're being very dismissive... NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #92

Because it is a slippery slope. It's not dismissive, it's a fact. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #93

Okay. I guess this will be one of this "agree to disagree" things. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #94

This is where these laws lead gollygee Mar 2015 #97

But it's still not a murder charge. The distinction is important, especially in today's political nomorenomore08 Mar 2015 #166

It absolutely is the point. Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #107

You and I know there's a huge difference. But we're also sane, rational people. nomorenomore08 Mar 2015 #164

FFS, are you saying if someone stabbed a mother in the abdomen at 8 months and killed.... Logical Mar 2015 #180

I support the everything the DA charged her with. I support aggravated assault/attempted murder PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #181

IMHO you stated that very well (nt) Orrex Mar 2015 #193

Thank you, Orrex. There's been some confusion on this thread about my feelings and I think I've made PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #195

good job handmade34 Mar 2015 #199

thank you. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #200

"I believe women should have complete control of their body"... NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #218

But if the victim had instead miscarried in some parts of the US... Orrex Mar 2015 #57

They would have thrown her in jail JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #64

Surely we could all agree on a place between two extremes. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #67

In the current case, a charge of attempted 1st degree murder seems appropriate Orrex Mar 2015 #72

I agree with that, but I also agree with the Colorado fetus law... NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #75

+1 ChazII Mar 2015 #105

This message was self-deleted by its author JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #62

News conference late this afternoon but from last week . . . JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #63

"This isn't just going to go away." NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #66

She should spend life in prison LittleBlue Mar 2015 #69

Absolutely. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #71

Can't be in Colorado JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #73

No - it's not a law in Colorado JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #78

I know why it can't happen LittleBlue Mar 2015 #79

I know JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #81

OK. How about we don't call it "murder", we call it "unlawful fetal homicide" or whatever, Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #74

I'm cool with that. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #76

There are a few states that don't have fetal homicide laws JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #77

how about, hell no. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #85

OK, let's call carving a viable fetus out of a pregnant woman an "aggravating circumstance", Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #89

it's awful. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #90

Great idea. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #91

See, the 'regardless of how it's done' is the slippery slope. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #95

I said absolutely nothing like that. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #96

Do you support fetal homicide laws? PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #98

In some cases, yes. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #100

Awful. And dismissive of women. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #102

So you think it's okey to cut out fetuses out of women who don't want an abortion? LisaL Mar 2015 #112

where the fuck did I say that? PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #113

No that would be assault and attempted or actual murder. Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #119

Sorry you feel that way. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #115

seriously. Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #109

Utter bullshit Telcontar Mar 2015 #103

Thank you. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #104

Abortion rights are not irrelevant A Little Weird Mar 2015 #184

It was not an abortion Telcontar Mar 2015 #207

No it was not A Little Weird Mar 2015 #208

Charges are in! JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #133

And I hope she's convicted on all counts and serves the maximum sentence. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #134

Me too! JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #135

Amen. PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #137

It was an 8 mo baby cut from the mother's womb and it's not murder? You can't get an ND-Dem Mar 2015 #203

"It ought to be *something*." NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #217

Cases like this are a Republicans wet dream... Lancero Mar 2015 #205

Yep, lotsa good Dems are uneducated about the attacks on women's autonomy.... bettyellen Mar 2015 #221

I feel conflicted about this one davidpdx Mar 2015 #222

Believe me, I do understand the conflict. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #223

She IS facing attempted murder JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #231

I think the charges they filed are good SickOfTheOnePct Mar 2015 #234

I just hope she gets a long sentence. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #238

Life begins at first breath, that's why we call it birthdays. This woman attempted to kill the B Calm Mar 2015 #237