General Discussion

grantcart

(53,061 posts)

254. Nader increased the opportunity for the GOP to get away with a non democratic vote and he knows it.

Fri Dec 23, 2011, 04:15 PM

Dec 2011

The proof of that is that he MADE the promise to not contest swing states.

If he didn't want to be a factor then why would he have contested in FL the way that he did.

Nader wanted to be in the middle of it and he used his campaign resources accordingly.

You apparently have a binary based logic system that allows for only A or B.

Just because A is true doesn't mean that C is also true.

So lets reduce this to its simplest form

A = The Republicans engineered a result that was against the democratic will of the people = true.

B = The Republicans did not engineer a result that was against the democratic will of the people = false.

C = Nader said that he wasn't going to contest in battleground states and then turned around and spent time and resources in Florida, known to be the closest of states. In doing so he made A easier. = True.

Now someone who helps my enemy is my enemy. Now you may understand why people that support Democrats hate Nader so thoroughly and logically.

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Who here considers himself/herself to the left of Obama? And if you are, will you support him? [View all] mvd Dec 2011 OP

Same here ... n/t RKP5637 Dec 2011 #1

Yes and Yes Angry Dragon Dec 2011 #2

yes and yes Sedona Dec 2011 #3

Me. Define "support." Brickbat Dec 2011 #4

Vote for and support his candidacy over the Repuke mvd Dec 2011 #7

A little more about that mvd Dec 2011 #14

I am far to the left of Obama, but will be voting for him. n/t teddy51 Dec 2011 #5

I am disappointed but I will support him. There is no other person I could support. I southernyankeebelle Dec 2011 #243

definitely donquijoterocket Dec 2011 #268

You are so right southernyankeebelle Dec 2011 #291

yes and yes n/t Greybnk48 Dec 2011 #6

Support. joshcryer Dec 2011 #8

That's exactly where I'm at. Fantastic Anarchist Dec 2011 #102

Do people call you an imperialist apologist... joshcryer Dec 2011 #274

Only on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Fantastic Anarchist Dec 2011 #282

that's about where I am as well - TBF Dec 2011 #120

I laughed Skelly Dec 2011 #134

Eh, I don't put a lot of stock in the entire political process... joshcryer Dec 2011 #273

Exactly. nt TBF Dec 2011 #295

"I still vote just in case they are counting" Fantastic Anarchist Dec 2011 #283

Yes/No. Hawkowl Dec 2011 #9

A perfectly reasonable position for the privileged. joshcryer Dec 2011 #11

Thanks for Helping republican efforts abelenkpe Dec 2011 #26

And thank YOU for helping republican efforts. Xicano Dec 2011 #214

I understand your position, thanks for the support in the past. Shoe Horn Dec 2011 #64

Regarding Texas, this should help to make you feel a little better ... Tx4obama Dec 2011 #77

Yes, thank you. Shoe Horn Dec 2011 #79

I get a population of 40 million for the others hfojvt Dec 2011 #220

Whereas California, which went strongly Democractic in 2008 and 2010 JDPriestly Dec 2011 #263

true enough hfojvt Dec 2011 #264

Texas is big, and growing. That's my take away message. Shoe Horn Dec 2011 #297

You know one thing about that list? Fantastic Anarchist Dec 2011 #284

So you are going to vote for the most harmful candidate then? stevenleser Dec 2011 #198

I'm with you. emilyg Dec 2011 #209

I can see the headline now unionworks Dec 2011 #10

I am way to the left of Obama, but I will vote for him. qb Dec 2011 #12

I consider myself to be an unabashed liberal socialist, and I will unabashedly vote for Obama. baldguy Dec 2011 #13

a billion? tomp Dec 2011 #90

Yep. That's what nader voters thought in 2000. They thought bush would Kahuna Dec 2011 #91

Hardly! Wind Dancer Dec 2011 #122

Even if you accept that Nader didn't have an impact grantcart Dec 2011 #176

Not to mention the lies that Gore would be no better than Bush. Thats the big one. stevenleser Dec 2011 #200

Agree 100% Frances Dec 2011 #211

We have to stop meeting like this. grantcart Dec 2011 #256

DING DING DING! That was my point. Not how bush wrangled his way in... Kahuna Dec 2011 #307

The poster... Wind Dancer Dec 2011 #217

Nader increased the opportunity for the GOP to get away with a non democratic vote and he knows it. grantcart Dec 2011 #254

Ha ha! That's not even my point. Somebody has a guilty conscience. nt Kahuna Dec 2011 #306

first off, it's lame that you bring nader into this. tomp Dec 2011 #303

It's not about Nader. It's about the voters who failed to use good judgement Kahuna Dec 2011 #308

gore failed to win them over. tomp Dec 2011 #316

Yes and Yes SteveG Dec 2011 #15

To the left of Obama NCTraveler Dec 2011 #16

Can't vote for him Prophet 451 Dec 2011 #17

My ideals are to the left of Obama's achievements. MH1 Dec 2011 #18

I really feel President Obama needs us. mvd Dec 2011 #21

He surely doesn't act like he needs us pscot Dec 2011 #171

I really like the model you used. JoePhilly Dec 2011 #25

Well said emulatorloo Dec 2011 #212

Well said! "To the left of Obama's achievements, but a pragmatist". That's me, too. Zalatix Dec 2011 #52

This is a very good post, and I agree with you. joshcryer Dec 2011 #69

Well said, MH1. Exactly how I feel about Obama's presidency so far. n/t Blaukraut Dec 2011 #187

Excellent post. Thanks for taking the time to make it. emulatorloo Dec 2011 #213

"will you support him;" greiner3 Dec 2011 #19

Succintly well put. Yes/yes. Old and In the Way Dec 2011 #20

I am and I doubt it. I expect him to be reelected in spite of me Vincardog Dec 2011 #22

yes and I am already working on 2012. w8liftinglady Dec 2011 #23

Left-er, yes. Ineeda Dec 2011 #24

yes n/t RainDog Dec 2011 #27

Here's how you can help the most progressive Democrat BlueToTheBone Dec 2011 #28

I'm to left of his first term of his Presidency proud patriot Dec 2011 #29

Yes and we'll see. UnrepentantLiberal Dec 2011 #30

Yes, yes: reason: live in reality. n/t dimbear Dec 2011 #31

Yes and yes. n/t Louisiana1976 Dec 2011 #32

i am much further left. DesertFlower Dec 2011 #33

Depends on the subject, really. MineralMan Dec 2011 #34

Yeah, I agree that single payer will not be a reality tomorrow. mvd Dec 2011 #35

Unfortunately, government must act to keep the system running and to fund it. MineralMan Dec 2011 #36

I don't agree so much on the extent of compromises, but of course do on getting more progressives in mvd Dec 2011 #37

Let me suggest, alternatively, that progress has never been slow and incremental. Laelth Dec 2011 #113

Yes. I will support the most progressive, anti-war, candidate on the ballot. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2011 #38

Yes and yes. Jamastiene Dec 2011 #39

yes and yes n/t Betsy Ross Dec 2011 #40

He's to my right, especially on social issues like equality for all, and I am not interested Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #41

I'll vote for him. Iggo Dec 2011 #42

I'll vote for him HeiressofBickworth Dec 2011 #43

Yes, and No, respectively DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2011 #44

Yes and maybe izquierdista Dec 2011 #45

Absolutely to the left of Obama here and was hoping for a Liberal/Progressive primary challenger. NorthCarolina Dec 2011 #46

I'm to the left of him XemaSab Dec 2011 #47

I'll probably be in AZ, so neither will mine. joshcryer Dec 2011 #70

What do they call it when you keep doing the same thing over and over, hoping NorthCarolina Dec 2011 #48

They don't call it anything. Because that's not the quote. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #175

Might as well vote for someone while I await the proletarian revolution. nt Modern_Matthew Dec 2011 #49

The revolution will be neutralized ... Fantastic Anarchist Dec 2011 #285

I am to the Left of Obama.... unkachuck Dec 2011 #50

Same here eridani Dec 2011 #51

I am and I will DesertRat Dec 2011 #53

To the left, yes, will I vote for him again? No. ThomWV Dec 2011 #54

Of course donco Dec 2011 #55

Hey, we have no choice customerserviceguy Dec 2011 #56

I am far to the left of Obama- I will not vote for him Marrah_G Dec 2011 #57

Makes sense! pnwmom Dec 2011 #74

Yes, and time will tell. Fearless Dec 2011 #58

Far Left and Yes (n/t) FlaGatorJD Dec 2011 #59

Yes, and Yes... and I'll just have to hope for a TRUE progressive liberal candidate in 2016 dorksied Dec 2011 #60

So will your vote for Obama. Daemonaquila Dec 2011 #108

left of obama griffi94 Dec 2011 #61

Yes and I will vote for him Lunabelle Dec 2011 #62

Me, me, me!! I'm at least 20 feet left of obama! Ecumenist Dec 2011 #63

of course, there is no choice Douglas Carpenter Dec 2011 #65

Yes / Yes (but I live in Texas so it really doesn't matter) Shoe Horn Dec 2011 #66

See comment #77 n/t Tx4obama Dec 2011 #78

I like looking at elections where we got TROUNCED, and see who stood by us then. Shoe Horn Dec 2011 #80

Ditto bluestateboomer Dec 2011 #67

As a Democratic Socialist, I'm far to the left of Obama. I support his re-election because coalition_unwilling Dec 2011 #68

+1, I support the people it will help by choosing the side that at least tries to care... joshcryer Dec 2011 #71

Oh, I'm under no illusions that the Obama\Democratic cohort cares about coalition_unwilling Dec 2011 #162

He indicated that he doesn't need the left (ie, "professional" left). Shouldn't this be good enough AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2011 #72

Are you a highly paid blogger or television talking head? emulatorloo Dec 2011 #180

Obviously, if he doesn't need the "professional" left, he doesn't need the amateur left either. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2011 #195

Continue to willfully misinterpret if it makes you feel better emulatorloo Dec 2011 #207

Are you being obtuse on purpose? My reply didn't disagree with yours. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2011 #221

My disagreement with you is your insistence that "It was a signal." emulatorloo Dec 2011 #226

yes and yes greyghost Dec 2011 #73

I'm significantly to the left of the compromises Obama's had to make. pnwmom Dec 2011 #75

Funny you should mention this. I just wrote a facebook post that I'm going to put here because it's tavalon Dec 2011 #76

What a positive way of looking at things quakerboy Dec 2011 #86

Don't forget that FDR had 12 years (!) in the White House, not just 3. Ineeda Dec 2011 #94

FDR was well on his way by year 3. :( nt Romulox Dec 2011 #111

And he had a very good congress to work with :) nt emulatorloo Dec 2011 #238

Worry not tavalon Dec 2011 #312

Maybe FDR had 12 years for a good reason. He was a Democrat, not a Centrist. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2011 #197

Maybe there was another reason, like 70 real Democrats in the senate + a huge majority in the house stevenleser Dec 2011 #281

With whom did he compromise when he appointed Geithner? AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2011 #288

Yes and yes. I'm a Democratic Socialist and will NEVER vote Republican. urbuddha Dec 2011 #81

I do and I will. . . DinahMoeHum Dec 2011 #82

Yes and Don't know. tomg Dec 2011 #83

I am to the left of President Obama's current policy and actions. quakerboy Dec 2011 #84

I live in Texas PDittie Dec 2011 #85

I always did consider myself to his left; always wanted him to win. LeftishBrit Dec 2011 #87

OHHH!!!!ME!!! ME!!!!! ME!!!!! Justice wanted Dec 2011 #88

In other words, will I be voting against Republicans again mmonk Dec 2011 #89

I'll vote for him unenthusiastically, but not quite at the "lesser of two evils" level Jim Lane Dec 2011 #92

Well to the left quaker bill Dec 2011 #93

Yes, and........ HowHeThinks Dec 2011 #95

Obama is proving to be to the right of Nixon. I'm not knocking 4,000 doors for Barack again. leveymg Dec 2011 #96

I will vote for Obama handmade34 Dec 2011 #97

I'll be voting for him too> Survivoreesta Dec 2011 #98

I don't think that there is any choice cate94 Dec 2011 #99

Right with you on this one... nradisic Dec 2011 #100

Therein lies the problem. Fantastic Anarchist Dec 2011 #101

I will vote for him, but RoccoR5955 Dec 2011 #103

Never Again RevRN Dec 2011 #104

Most moderate republicans are left of Obama.. 4dsc Dec 2011 #105

Really? Can you name one moderate repub (as if one exists)... Kahuna Dec 2011 #118

Have to agree kenfrequed Dec 2011 #142

I don't think the GWB comparisons are accurate, but I can see a resemblance to GHWB. Romulox Dec 2011 #163

Nope. Daemonaquila Dec 2011 #106

I am to the left of Obama. n/t Le Taz Hot Dec 2011 #107

Still hoping someday he will join us randr Dec 2011 #109

Y/N. nt Romulox Dec 2011 #110

enthusiastic support Progressive dog Dec 2011 #112

I am, and I will. n/t Ian David Dec 2011 #114

Why would anyone answer this post with "No"? eilen Dec 2011 #115

I've read a lot of the meta-discussion. I think the admins are more broad minded Romulox Dec 2011 #116

yes and probably motely36 Dec 2011 #117

Same Here krucial Dec 2011 #119

I do want to hear my Tea Bagging Coworkers squeal Beavker Dec 2011 #121

I don't consider this a football game-yeah our team newspeak Dec 2011 #128

I wonder if he can get any really 'good' appointees in right now. Beavker Dec 2011 #319

I forget which is my left or right? Yon_Yonson Dec 2011 #123

Yes and Yes...I can't wait Not Me Dec 2011 #124

Yes and of course Dyedinthewoolliberal Dec 2011 #125

Real Roy Rolling Dec 2011 #126

Exactly MsLeopard Dec 2011 #127

WAY left of Obama mntleo2 Dec 2011 #129

I'm way to the left of Obama . . . ananda Dec 2011 #130

Yes I am and yes I will green917 Dec 2011 #131

yes and yes but I've been on the left of every president before and after my birth, with the Demonaut Dec 2011 #132

I am well to the left of Obama hifiguy Dec 2011 #133

i know i must be to the left of obama barbtries Dec 2011 #135

Yes and yes. nt. tosh Dec 2011 #136

An interesting question kenfrequed Dec 2011 #137

Yes I'm more left than Obama, and madmom Dec 2011 #138

Not a snowball's chance. Nyet. Nope. 528 hz Dec 2011 #139

this thread smells like teeny bopper crap: "who is more dreamy, Paul or John" type stuff datasuspect Dec 2011 #140

Didn't mean it that way. I know there have been lots of pro-Obama threads lately.. mvd Dec 2011 #148

I'm far, far left of Obama.... Scuba Dec 2011 #141

I do and I will. n/t racaulk Dec 2011 #143

Do we have any choice? primavera Dec 2011 #144

Left of Obama RobinA Dec 2011 #145

While I would like to agree, you're dead wrong. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #160

And so we boil to death by degrees primavera Dec 2011 #170

Every extra moment we can buy is a chance The Doctor. Dec 2011 #172

And what will we do to "derail this train to hell"? primavera Dec 2011 #252

Voting is not the only thing we are doing. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #271

that's it, do we have any choice? newspeak Dec 2011 #201

Of course we have a choice. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #302

You will blame us for exercizing our democratic rights and hoping for a choice? Fantastic Anarchist Dec 2011 #286

Not at all. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #296

First of all, sir ... Fantastic Anarchist Dec 2011 #298

It would behoove you to notice, sir... The Doctor. Dec 2011 #301

I agree with those on your list ... Fantastic Anarchist Dec 2011 #304

Indeed we are. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #309

It does sort of seem like something's gone wrong here primavera Dec 2011 #310

How would far-right wignuts march the country into fascism? DutchLiberal Dec 2011 #311

You think *this* is fascism? The Doctor. Dec 2011 #313

If you don't think this is fascism, you're being delusional... DutchLiberal Dec 2011 #315

Wow. If you truly believe that all of our Democrats are fascists, The Doctor. Dec 2011 #318

Yes and yes (reluctantly) eom tledford Dec 2011 #146

agreed n/t mlevans Dec 2011 #147

I'll be pulling the lever for Obama - GoneOffShore Dec 2011 #149

I am to the left of Obama emulatorloo Dec 2011 #150

We are and yes... Tikki Dec 2011 #151

Yes and Yes relayerbob Dec 2011 #152

I sit on his left by virtue of his circumstances... The Doctor. Dec 2011 #153

If we don't connecticut yankee Dec 2011 #154

Yes and Yes n/t wryter2000 Dec 2011 #155

Yes and Yes - n/t obietiger Dec 2011 #156

I think you're asking the wrong question frazzled Dec 2011 #157

... The Doctor. Dec 2011 #167

I have been to the left of EVERY democratic presidential candidate since I could vote chemp Dec 2011 #158

Same here emulatorloo Dec 2011 #169

yes to both. La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2011 #159

Yes crim son Dec 2011 #161

Marxist for Obama, checking in. McCamy Taylor Dec 2011 #164

I consider myself and everyone else ... T S Justly Dec 2011 #165

Reality Check: Obama Job Approval amount Republicans 15 percent, Dems 82 per cent emulatorloo Dec 2011 #177

Are progressive Democrats even responding to your poll? T S Justly Dec 2011 #192

First, you are not the arbiter of what makes a Democrat a "true democrat" emulatorloo Dec 2011 #216

Nor are you or any other person I know of. The rest of your characterization of my post ... T S Justly Dec 2011 #245

Your post seemed to imply that your believe Obama's support comes from Republicans emulatorloo Dec 2011 #290

I admit that's what I meant. But, only so far as the GOP's support for "bi-partisan" ... T S Justly Dec 2011 #294

... emulatorloo Dec 2011 #305

I'm to the left of Obama. I'm very disappointed in his presidency. I will vote for him. Martin Eden Dec 2011 #166

No need for the drama. Just vote for the man. MjolnirTime Dec 2011 #168

yes & yes n/t Little Star Dec 2011 #173

I'm Wellstone left of Obama. All Dem presidents during my life are left of him, couple of Repubs. unc70 Dec 2011 #174

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to the left, and no, won't be voting for him. Fiendish Thingy Dec 2011 #178

When you continue to vote for the lesser nineteen50 Dec 2011 #179

Yes and Yes... jimlup Dec 2011 #181

"Hope" is the leading to fascism. Republicans move right, democrats play follow the leader... scentopine Dec 2011 #182

Exactly. nt freedom fighter jh Dec 2011 #210

You are correct, Democratic Ideals have nothing to do with party leadership anymore Dragonfli Dec 2011 #239

That would depend on the issue DissedByBush Dec 2011 #183

Not sure if Iam left of Obama but I fully suppor the President liberal N proud Dec 2011 #184

I am to the left...and yes I will support Obama Tippy Dec 2011 #185

Yes and I knew he was centrist the first time drmeow Dec 2011 #186

How far is left? ramparts Dec 2011 #188

of course I will vote for him Tumbulu Dec 2011 #189

I'm left of pretty much everyone cmd Dec 2011 #190

I don't consider myself "to The Left of Obama." bvar22 Dec 2011 #191

Yes and Yes. NOLALady Dec 2011 #193

I am left of him sorrybushisfromtexas Dec 2011 #194

Yes and Yes ProfessorGAC Dec 2011 #196

I'm to his left and I will vote for him. Demoiselle Dec 2011 #199

I really like this reasoned and level headed approach to criticism and strategy stevenleser Dec 2011 #202

I do, and hell yeah, I will DFW Dec 2011 #203

yes x2 geckosfeet Dec 2011 #204

Any real Democrat zentrum Dec 2011 #205

Why would you put people on the spot with this thread? DainBramaged Dec 2011 #206

Good question! Wind Dancer Dec 2011 #218

I think it this thread helps through the recent horseshit going on in GD emulatorloo Dec 2011 #219

Why not? Major Hogwash Dec 2011 #250

Of course, weed out those of us who are to the left of the new Reagan administration......... DainBramaged Dec 2011 #270

Ah-ha!! Major Hogwash Dec 2011 #280

yes and my other options are????? dembotoz Dec 2011 #208

I will have to vote for Barack. subterranean Dec 2011 #215

For my part I will vote for whoever vows to stop all wars including the drug wars, vows to ooglymoogly Dec 2011 #222

you are going to get skewed results with this straw poll a2liberal Dec 2011 #223

I'm to the left and support president Obama enthusiastically n/t Politicub Dec 2011 #224

wayyy left of Obama wwytchwood Dec 2011 #225

I am left of President Obama and I will support him because I am a hell of a lot more left of anyone jwirr Dec 2011 #227

Not sure and probably not freedom fighter jh Dec 2011 #228

What your writing here demonstrates.... FrenchieCat Dec 2011 #231

Please support your generalizations freedom fighter jh Dec 2011 #234

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #244

That's what it feels like. freedom fighter jh Dec 2011 #249

What is astounding to me is Puglover Dec 2011 #251

So do I tend to tear back. freedom fighter jh Dec 2011 #257

"You are free to vote for whoever we tell you to vote for!" Fantastic Anarchist Dec 2011 #287

you're forgetting the part about there being politics involved and relative bargaining power of certainot Dec 2011 #253

I agree with you about radio freedom fighter jh Dec 2011 #261

not voting gave us 2010 and most of this obstruction and 2 more years lost on global warming certainot Dec 2011 #267

with un abashed pragmatic enthusiam mikekohr Dec 2011 #229

I'm left of Obama (and every other nationally electable candidate). I'll DEFINITELY vote for him IF Texas Lawyer Dec 2011 #230

Yes, I'm way to the left of him but will support him. OnionPatch Dec 2011 #232

Far to the left of Obama but will be both working and voting for him..Consider the Supreme Court, whathehell Dec 2011 #233

Yes and Yes Seedersandleechers Dec 2011 #235

Yes/No FedUp_Queer Dec 2011 #236

I know some Republicans that are to the left of Obama but they aren't running... Fair Witness Dec 2011 #237

Hard left bitchkitty Dec 2011 #240

More left, yes..support, yes workinclasszero Dec 2011 #241

I do and still, I will siligut Dec 2011 #242

I do and I will! With Enthusiasm! SunSeeker Dec 2011 #246

Yep, that's me, today. bobthedrummer Dec 2011 #247

I do and I will. boxman15 Dec 2011 #248

Flypaper. AtomicKitten Dec 2011 #255

Yes and no. truebrit71 Dec 2011 #258

I like turtles. n/t SaveOurDemocracy Dec 2011 #259

where is he sitting right now? snooper2 Dec 2011 #260

Yes, yes. I hope to get more progressives in Congress. JDPriestly Dec 2011 #262

Way, Way To The Left Of Him But.... colsohlibgal Dec 2011 #265

no Hanks Dec 2011 #266

Yes and defnitely yes solara Dec 2011 #269

I'm further to the left than I originally thought, but I'm still voting for him. OverBurn Dec 2011 #272

which Obama? BobbyBoring Dec 2011 #275

You're a moderate centrist? joshcryer Dec 2011 #276

yes and yes Warren Stupidity Dec 2011 #277

yes and no rawbean Dec 2011 #278

I am fifthoffive Dec 2011 #279

Yes And Not Many Options For Progressives cantbeserious Dec 2011 #289

I am certainly left of the President. I will vote against the Republicans. MrSlayer Dec 2011 #292

I agree with everything in your post except the part about Obama being incrementalist vs. centrist. yardwork Dec 2011 #293

Yes and no cpwm17 Dec 2011 #299

upset but supporting existentialist Dec 2011 #300

I've come to realize I'm a Bernie Sanders socialist. Vinca Dec 2011 #314

There's no choice in the matter, but I'll vote for him anyways. Neoma Dec 2011 #317

Yes and yes...nt StopTheNeoCons Dec 2011 #320

The sky is blue. Rex Dec 2011 #321