General Discussion

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)

152. You are presenting a false choice and making a false assumption.

Tue Mar 31, 2015, 03:53 PM

Mar 2015

You assume that BMW pays $28 and hour with good benefits based on trade agreements.

We could just as well assume that BMW is paying well because it is selling its cars in the US and it makes sense, therefore, to make the cars in the US.

Saves on transportation costs, and BMW enjoys the loyalty of Americans who recognize that BMW makes the cars they buy in the US with American labor. And that BMW contributes to our tax base.

If we accept my assumptions then we do not need free trade agreements. BMW can invest in the US and produce products in the US without the TPP or any trade agreement. BMW can obey our laws, respect our democracy and remain a popular company with popular products in the US.

We do not need the TPP in order to encourage foreign investment in the US. In fact, the TPP will encourage more outflow of investment money than inflow. Just as NAFTA did.

Please stop using false logic. Please stop relying on false assumptions.

We do not need the TPP in order to encourage foreign investment in the US.

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How utterly @#$%ed up is it that two-thirds [View all] MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 OP

"our President is working to ram the thing down our throat" zappaman Mar 2015 #1

Ah yes, the BOG smilie of last resort LondonReign2 Mar 2015 #25

+100,000,000. Thank you thank you thank you. I HATEHATEHATE those fugging smilies; they're so ND-Dem Mar 2015 #57

The BOG smilie sheshe2 Mar 2015 #78

there is a group of people who uses those things nearly every time they post. I don't know ND-Dem Mar 2015 #82

Lots of people use a smilie... no biggie. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #86

They use them to ridicule other posters in a rude and degrading manner. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #87

How do you feel about him called a POS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then they double downed. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #102

I didn't see that and I agree that at first glance it seems too much. Do you have a link? ND-Dem Mar 2015 #114

Toss in a few buzz words, you'll find it. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #132

I thought you were saying it happened here at DU. If you're talking about the internet or ND-Dem Mar 2015 #133

It happened here. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #134

The first page I googled didn't have anything like that, just wing-nut stuff from wing-nut sites. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #135

I found it. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #142

I googled "obama" and "pos" on the site search here. I found people calling various ND-Dem Mar 2015 #140

Here ya go, I know what sheshe2 is talking about so put these keywords into google search engine. Rex Mar 2015 #159

Thanks~ sheshe2 Mar 2015 #172

I got your back. Rex Mar 2015 #179

I wonder how many North Koreans know about TPP? n/t zappaman Mar 2015 #92

at least you didn't post the usual smilie. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #95

! zappaman Mar 2015 #118

worse than bush? BS. No one is ridiculing Obama at a personal level, like they did Bush. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #93

He has been called worse than Bush on this site. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #173

He's black She madokie Mar 2015 #97

Love you madokie... sheshe2 Mar 2015 #98

The old love hiway goes two ways She madokie Mar 2015 #101

Back at you... sheshe2 Mar 2015 #103

Results of jury BumRushDaShow Mar 2015 #107

Wow Bobbie Jo Mar 2015 #108

BRDS!!!!! sheshe2 Mar 2015 #174

What's the BOG? zappaman Mar 2015 #79

Oh....zappaman. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #81

A bog is a stagnant, acidic environment where morningfog Mar 2015 #111

I'll answer that if you'll answer the question LondonReign2 Mar 2015 #139

Obama wants to fast-track the TPP which might have happened had it not been for the sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #147

Sometimes, you get an unintended peek. And you die msanthrope Mar 2015 #29

How rude. You have nothing to add but that rude emoticon? I guess Sid will be proud. rhett o rick Mar 2015 #41

Sometimes that is all we have left Rhett. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #104

So you admit you have no real counterargument, and can only Marr Mar 2015 #141

Not what I said.... sheshe2 Mar 2015 #143

It is exactly what you said. Marr Mar 2015 #144

Later... sheshe2 Mar 2015 #145

This thread is about President Obama's support and advocacy for yet another trade agreement JDPriestly Mar 2015 #148

good gawd man. learn to cuss properly. sheesh. what kind of rant is this? Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2015 #2

Dollars over people.... daleanime Mar 2015 #3

Always. 840high Mar 2015 #32

Two-thirds of Americans who are familiar with it maybe,,, Ron Obvious Mar 2015 #4

Even if every USian were aware of it and called the White House and his or her Senators to merrily Mar 2015 #14

But Manny, certainly the most transparent and arguably the greatest president of the past 50 years.. bluesbassman Mar 2015 #5

Not to mention that merrily Mar 2015 #13

No, the greatest modern president. Greater than FDR even. His legend grows apace; pretty ND-Dem Mar 2015 #58

Really... that's all you got out of the last six years...that is just plain sad. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #175

no, it's what i got out of one particular poster who insisted that obama was the greatest ND-Dem Mar 2015 #177

The President, Democrats, Republicans. progressoid Mar 2015 #6

+1 F4lconF16 Mar 2015 #23

He's not working very hard, but if he wants other countries to make any Hoyt Mar 2015 #7

LOL! merrily Mar 2015 #11

Oh for shit sakes Populist_Prole Mar 2015 #15

Most countries have similar agreements, and want more. Hoyt Mar 2015 #17

First, just because a lot of countries do it does not mean that it's a good thing. F4lconF16 Mar 2015 #24

Governments all over the world, like Germany, Britain, Japan, Canada etc., are all wrong. Hoyt Mar 2015 #26

Yes. Many, many, many times throughout history, they have been. nt F4lconF16 Mar 2015 #27

We are talking trade, I don't think they can all be wrong, while you are right. Hoyt Mar 2015 #28

BY, OF, and FOR the PEOPLE. Yes, they sure are wrong when it comes to the US. DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2015 #38

+100 ND-Dem Mar 2015 #60

Really? That's your justification? This is crap and you know it. nm rhett o rick Mar 2015 #42

Everyone of the 12 governments involved in TPP want it, depending on final draft. Hoyt Mar 2015 #46

So you can provide evidence of that? nm rhett o rick Mar 2015 #51

Yeah, 12 countries are voluntarily taking part in the negotiations. Seems obvious to me, why not to Hoyt Mar 2015 #69

"Countries" don't "want" anything. Like here, maybe their business class does, and their ND-Dem Mar 2015 #59

+1, Exactly. Marr Mar 2015 #146

Most other countries do not have our balance of trade deficit. JDPriestly Mar 2015 #85

PLUS ONE, a huge bunch! Enthusiast Mar 2015 #89

Yeah, tell Toyota, BMW, VW, Siemens, Rolls-Royce, Airbus, etc., to take their foreign plants Hoyt Mar 2015 #100

they come here for the cheap labor, same reason we go to china ND-Dem Mar 2015 #116

Folks where I live would dance down the street for one of those jobs. I guess we should tell them Hoyt Mar 2015 #119

so what? folks where *I* live think $10/hour is good wages. because that's what there is. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #121

Good. I hope they move all their plants here. You can gripe away. Hoyt Mar 2015 #137

our state minimum wage is $9.45. Works better than labor arbitrage. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #138

What do you propose to do about our oversized trade deficit and extremely unfavorable balance JDPriestly Mar 2015 #162

What do you propose, stop exporting and importing to rebalance trade? Hoyt Mar 2015 #163

Make individual trade agreements with individual nations that permit a nation to drop out of JDPriestly Mar 2015 #165

So, since you are so worried about the trade imbalance, do you also support austerity? Hoyt Mar 2015 #168

Before Reagan and free trade, General Motors, Ford, Chrysler -- the American companies JDPriestly Mar 2015 #151

Those investments were made without the "benefit" or detriment, in my view, of the TPP/ JDPriestly Mar 2015 #149

Oh boy, you are going to have fun with this- I quote from "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Economics." Hoyt Mar 2015 #169

Here is the case in the US: JDPriestly Mar 2015 #170

Oh, I agree we are in decline. But not from free trade. I'm not far behind you and unless we find an Hoyt Mar 2015 #171

jacking down wages at home, not bringing them up overseas = more profit & power to the globo- ND-Dem Mar 2015 #115

Wages from those locating here are better than American businesses, especially small ones, pay. Hoyt Mar 2015 #120

and worse than in their home countries. which is why they're here. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #122

OK, say you work for BMW making $28 an hour, plus good benefits. You wanna send those jobs back to Hoyt Mar 2015 #136

You are presenting a false choice and making a false assumption. JDPriestly Mar 2015 #152

You are badly mistaken that we don't need trade agreement to attract investments, and invest in Hoyt Mar 2015 #155

The only argument in those articles that is persuasive concerns China's dominance of world JDPriestly Mar 2015 #160

As a woman who sews, I would love to see the return of American jobs in the textile JDPriestly Mar 2015 #153

Unfortunately, in some cases like autos, the poor quality of cars made here, allowed foreign cars Hoyt Mar 2015 #161

My Maytag against your vague descriptions. JDPriestly Mar 2015 #164

+1 an entire shit load. Enthusiast Mar 2015 #88

LMFAO L0oniX Mar 2015 #125

It's DJ Jazzy Hoyt! Spin it baby! Phlem Mar 2015 #128

Where is that emoticon.... PassingFair Mar 2015 #167

Brother Manny....... DeSwiss Mar 2015 #8

It boggles the mind MissDeeds Mar 2015 #9

The Senate will provide the Constitutional check and balance for which we are so famous merrily Mar 2015 #10

Kick and R. BeanMusical Mar 2015 #12

But Manny, Unknown Beatle Mar 2015 #16

60-90% of Americans (including NRA members) want peace, gun control, better wages, MisterP Mar 2015 #18

"this is LITERALLY how they run elections in banana republics" = +100 ND-Dem Mar 2015 #61

Is there a reference for that statistic? MineralMan Mar 2015 #19

What I alway want to know Andy823 Mar 2015 #21

I'd just like to see where the OP got the numbers. MineralMan Mar 2015 #22

Well I could tell you Andy823 Mar 2015 #31

Maybe he got it wrong. Why don't you do the research and prove him wrong? nm rhett o rick Mar 2015 #43

IMHO sheshe2 Mar 2015 #44

The best way to prove an OP wrong is to post some facts. Responders don't have to rhett o rick Mar 2015 #52

I just asked a question, silly me. No I did not disparage the Op. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #56

It's up to the OP to support his claim. I asked MineralMan Mar 2015 #110

Yes. Hissyspit Mar 2015 #33

Post removed Post removed Mar 2015 #34

Um, no. Hissyspit Mar 2015 #36

You and MineralMan need to learn how to search the Internet. DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2015 #39

a simple question with all due respect. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #47

I'm not the OP, but I assume he was using the number as the basis for discussion. DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2015 #48

Thanks for your answer....I appreciate it DisgustipatedinCA sheshe2 Mar 2015 #49

Mister man non sequitur du jour Cosmic Kitten Mar 2015 #53

How is asking politely for the source of a statistic MineralMan Mar 2015 #112

Well you know how sometimes people just forget all about web searches! Rex Mar 2015 #158

I guess it takes too long to google something. Rex Mar 2015 #157

You must have been a hoot when certain civil rights polled really poorly. NCTraveler Mar 2015 #20

Do you see any differences between civil rights and "free" trade? MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #40

I'd be amazed if more than 10% of Americans even know what "TPP" stands for. Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #30

Yep.... Cali_Democrat Mar 2015 #50

Interesting, eh? No idea you say??? Cosmic Kitten Mar 2015 #54

The "establishment" knows exactly what TPP is Cali_Democrat Mar 2015 #62

Oh bull. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #65

You think the average American knows about TPP? Cali_Democrat Mar 2015 #66

I think your description of the 'average american' as someone watching the kardashians is ND-Dem Mar 2015 #67

Americans, in general, are easily manipulated and dumber than a sack of hammers Cali_Democrat Mar 2015 #70

good thing we have people like you to help us dumb fucks. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #71

Happy to help. nt Cali_Democrat Mar 2015 #74

Exactly. Half the country doesn't even bother to vote. R B Garr Mar 2015 #68

Maybe they have their reasons. But folks like you wouldn't think to ask the people you ND-Dem Mar 2015 #73

What? That makes no sense. R B Garr Mar 2015 #75

"It's just a fact". like air. there's no reason for it, people are just stupid. it's a law of ND-Dem Mar 2015 #77

Good grief. R B Garr Mar 2015 #80

+100. Yeah, I find it pretty interesting that our "leaders" don't feel it necessary to inform ND-Dem Mar 2015 #64

Most Americans do know, at this point, Oilwellian Mar 2015 #91

+1 treestar Mar 2015 #72

Toilet Paper Patrol. L0oniX Mar 2015 #126

Here's what the "toilet paper patrol" should do to edumacate those that don't understand... cascadiance Mar 2015 #129

Great find! +1 L0oniX Mar 2015 #166

K and R bigwillq Mar 2015 #35

Recommended. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #37

Two thirds of Manny's personas say what? JoePhilly Mar 2015 #45

Post removed Post removed Mar 2015 #55

Cosmic kitty's post should not have been hidden. JoePhilly Mar 2015 #176

posted to for later. 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #63

You sure you want to. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #76

K&R. JDPriestly Mar 2015 #83

I think this relates to Citizens United and election funding daredtowork Mar 2015 #84

+100 "First they came for the homeless, but I was not homeless...." ND-Dem Mar 2015 #94

K&R! This post deserves hundreds of recommendations! Enthusiast Mar 2015 #90

You are outraged hear you roar..and roar..repackage and roar..same outrage different roar. great white snark Mar 2015 #96

... sheshe2 Mar 2015 #99

plenty of people care. and the leaked draft = no longer conjecture. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #117

And you have to click and comment because?????? Soooo easy to skip this stuff, if djean111 Mar 2015 #127

I'm outraged that you're outraged! neverforget Mar 2015 #178

Bwahahaha! Yes! Nailed it. I will be forced to borrow that, neverforget, because that seems to be djean111 Apr 2015 #181

Our President works for the elites Quantess Mar 2015 #105

Huge K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Mar 2015 #106

Yeah right, I would guess 3/4 of Americans have no idea what fast track is tritsofme Mar 2015 #109

Whatever shareholders pay for, we all get. raouldukelives Mar 2015 #113

+100 ND-Dem Mar 2015 #123

Stupid little serfs need not worry. The big shots are deciding everything for us. L0oniX Mar 2015 #124

they're so smart. we're so dumb. and lazy. and fat. i heard it at DU. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #131

You could just libodem Mar 2015 #130

We shall see. Rex Mar 2015 #150

Speaking for myself only, back in the 80s, it was 10-18. ScreamingMeemie Mar 2015 #154

Me too, but I knew at 13 Reagan was evil to the core. That the GOP were all corporate sellouts. Rex Mar 2015 #156

Sounds like vile fear-mongering to me, I don't think he is trying to ram it down our throat. Hoyt Mar 2015 #180

If I understand it correctly. 99Forever Apr 2015 #182