General Discussion

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)

155. You are badly mistaken that we don't need trade agreement to attract investments, and invest in

Tue Mar 31, 2015, 04:04 PM

Mar 2015

other countries.

If we aren't buying their products, they can go elsewhere at some point. The TPP and other trade agreements aren't short-term propositions. The world is changing and we can't sit on our rears and let it pass us by.

Here's an article by Ezra Klein. I think it's pretty good and describes why this is more than a trade agreement for goods, as has been enacted in the past. It's not simply pro-TPP, either. Try to read it on balance.

http://www.vox.com/2015/3/13/8208017/obama-trans-pacific-partnership

Here's another article from economists.

http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/185531/%E2%80%98transpacific-partnership-an-agreement-that-even-liberals-can-live-with%E2%80%99

There is plenty more if you care to look beyond the scare tactics being employed by so-called activists.

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How utterly @#$%ed up is it that two-thirds [View all] MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 OP

"our President is working to ram the thing down our throat" zappaman Mar 2015 #1

Ah yes, the BOG smilie of last resort LondonReign2 Mar 2015 #25

+100,000,000. Thank you thank you thank you. I HATEHATEHATE those fugging smilies; they're so ND-Dem Mar 2015 #57

The BOG smilie sheshe2 Mar 2015 #78

there is a group of people who uses those things nearly every time they post. I don't know ND-Dem Mar 2015 #82

Lots of people use a smilie... no biggie. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #86

They use them to ridicule other posters in a rude and degrading manner. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #87

How do you feel about him called a POS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then they double downed. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #102

I didn't see that and I agree that at first glance it seems too much. Do you have a link? ND-Dem Mar 2015 #114

Toss in a few buzz words, you'll find it. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #132

I thought you were saying it happened here at DU. If you're talking about the internet or ND-Dem Mar 2015 #133

It happened here. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #134

The first page I googled didn't have anything like that, just wing-nut stuff from wing-nut sites. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #135

I found it. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #142

I googled "obama" and "pos" on the site search here. I found people calling various ND-Dem Mar 2015 #140

Here ya go, I know what sheshe2 is talking about so put these keywords into google search engine. Rex Mar 2015 #159

Thanks~ sheshe2 Mar 2015 #172

I got your back. Rex Mar 2015 #179

I wonder how many North Koreans know about TPP? n/t zappaman Mar 2015 #92

at least you didn't post the usual smilie. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #95

! zappaman Mar 2015 #118

worse than bush? BS. No one is ridiculing Obama at a personal level, like they did Bush. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #93

He has been called worse than Bush on this site. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #173

He's black She madokie Mar 2015 #97

Love you madokie... sheshe2 Mar 2015 #98

The old love hiway goes two ways She madokie Mar 2015 #101

Back at you... sheshe2 Mar 2015 #103

Results of jury BumRushDaShow Mar 2015 #107

Wow Bobbie Jo Mar 2015 #108

BRDS!!!!! sheshe2 Mar 2015 #174

What's the BOG? zappaman Mar 2015 #79

Oh....zappaman. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #81

A bog is a stagnant, acidic environment where morningfog Mar 2015 #111

I'll answer that if you'll answer the question LondonReign2 Mar 2015 #139

Obama wants to fast-track the TPP which might have happened had it not been for the sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #147

Sometimes, you get an unintended peek. And you die msanthrope Mar 2015 #29

How rude. You have nothing to add but that rude emoticon? I guess Sid will be proud. rhett o rick Mar 2015 #41

Sometimes that is all we have left Rhett. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #104

So you admit you have no real counterargument, and can only Marr Mar 2015 #141

Not what I said.... sheshe2 Mar 2015 #143

It is exactly what you said. Marr Mar 2015 #144

Later... sheshe2 Mar 2015 #145

This thread is about President Obama's support and advocacy for yet another trade agreement JDPriestly Mar 2015 #148

good gawd man. learn to cuss properly. sheesh. what kind of rant is this? Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2015 #2

Dollars over people.... daleanime Mar 2015 #3

Always. 840high Mar 2015 #32

Two-thirds of Americans who are familiar with it maybe,,, Ron Obvious Mar 2015 #4

Even if every USian were aware of it and called the White House and his or her Senators to merrily Mar 2015 #14

But Manny, certainly the most transparent and arguably the greatest president of the past 50 years.. bluesbassman Mar 2015 #5

Not to mention that merrily Mar 2015 #13

No, the greatest modern president. Greater than FDR even. His legend grows apace; pretty ND-Dem Mar 2015 #58

Really... that's all you got out of the last six years...that is just plain sad. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #175

no, it's what i got out of one particular poster who insisted that obama was the greatest ND-Dem Mar 2015 #177

The President, Democrats, Republicans. progressoid Mar 2015 #6

+1 F4lconF16 Mar 2015 #23

He's not working very hard, but if he wants other countries to make any Hoyt Mar 2015 #7

LOL! merrily Mar 2015 #11

Oh for shit sakes Populist_Prole Mar 2015 #15

Most countries have similar agreements, and want more. Hoyt Mar 2015 #17

First, just because a lot of countries do it does not mean that it's a good thing. F4lconF16 Mar 2015 #24

Governments all over the world, like Germany, Britain, Japan, Canada etc., are all wrong. Hoyt Mar 2015 #26

Yes. Many, many, many times throughout history, they have been. nt F4lconF16 Mar 2015 #27

We are talking trade, I don't think they can all be wrong, while you are right. Hoyt Mar 2015 #28

BY, OF, and FOR the PEOPLE. Yes, they sure are wrong when it comes to the US. DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2015 #38

+100 ND-Dem Mar 2015 #60

Really? That's your justification? This is crap and you know it. nm rhett o rick Mar 2015 #42

Everyone of the 12 governments involved in TPP want it, depending on final draft. Hoyt Mar 2015 #46

So you can provide evidence of that? nm rhett o rick Mar 2015 #51

Yeah, 12 countries are voluntarily taking part in the negotiations. Seems obvious to me, why not to Hoyt Mar 2015 #69

"Countries" don't "want" anything. Like here, maybe their business class does, and their ND-Dem Mar 2015 #59

+1, Exactly. Marr Mar 2015 #146

Most other countries do not have our balance of trade deficit. JDPriestly Mar 2015 #85

PLUS ONE, a huge bunch! Enthusiast Mar 2015 #89

Yeah, tell Toyota, BMW, VW, Siemens, Rolls-Royce, Airbus, etc., to take their foreign plants Hoyt Mar 2015 #100

they come here for the cheap labor, same reason we go to china ND-Dem Mar 2015 #116

Folks where I live would dance down the street for one of those jobs. I guess we should tell them Hoyt Mar 2015 #119

so what? folks where *I* live think $10/hour is good wages. because that's what there is. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #121

Good. I hope they move all their plants here. You can gripe away. Hoyt Mar 2015 #137

our state minimum wage is $9.45. Works better than labor arbitrage. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #138

What do you propose to do about our oversized trade deficit and extremely unfavorable balance JDPriestly Mar 2015 #162

What do you propose, stop exporting and importing to rebalance trade? Hoyt Mar 2015 #163

Make individual trade agreements with individual nations that permit a nation to drop out of JDPriestly Mar 2015 #165

So, since you are so worried about the trade imbalance, do you also support austerity? Hoyt Mar 2015 #168

Before Reagan and free trade, General Motors, Ford, Chrysler -- the American companies JDPriestly Mar 2015 #151

Those investments were made without the "benefit" or detriment, in my view, of the TPP/ JDPriestly Mar 2015 #149

Oh boy, you are going to have fun with this- I quote from "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Economics." Hoyt Mar 2015 #169

Here is the case in the US: JDPriestly Mar 2015 #170

Oh, I agree we are in decline. But not from free trade. I'm not far behind you and unless we find an Hoyt Mar 2015 #171

jacking down wages at home, not bringing them up overseas = more profit & power to the globo- ND-Dem Mar 2015 #115

Wages from those locating here are better than American businesses, especially small ones, pay. Hoyt Mar 2015 #120

and worse than in their home countries. which is why they're here. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #122

OK, say you work for BMW making $28 an hour, plus good benefits. You wanna send those jobs back to Hoyt Mar 2015 #136

You are presenting a false choice and making a false assumption. JDPriestly Mar 2015 #152

You are badly mistaken that we don't need trade agreement to attract investments, and invest in Hoyt Mar 2015 #155

The only argument in those articles that is persuasive concerns China's dominance of world JDPriestly Mar 2015 #160

As a woman who sews, I would love to see the return of American jobs in the textile JDPriestly Mar 2015 #153

Unfortunately, in some cases like autos, the poor quality of cars made here, allowed foreign cars Hoyt Mar 2015 #161

My Maytag against your vague descriptions. JDPriestly Mar 2015 #164

+1 an entire shit load. Enthusiast Mar 2015 #88

LMFAO L0oniX Mar 2015 #125

It's DJ Jazzy Hoyt! Spin it baby! Phlem Mar 2015 #128

Where is that emoticon.... PassingFair Mar 2015 #167

Brother Manny....... DeSwiss Mar 2015 #8

It boggles the mind MissDeeds Mar 2015 #9

The Senate will provide the Constitutional check and balance for which we are so famous merrily Mar 2015 #10

Kick and R. BeanMusical Mar 2015 #12

But Manny, Unknown Beatle Mar 2015 #16

60-90% of Americans (including NRA members) want peace, gun control, better wages, MisterP Mar 2015 #18

"this is LITERALLY how they run elections in banana republics" = +100 ND-Dem Mar 2015 #61

Is there a reference for that statistic? MineralMan Mar 2015 #19

What I alway want to know Andy823 Mar 2015 #21

I'd just like to see where the OP got the numbers. MineralMan Mar 2015 #22

Well I could tell you Andy823 Mar 2015 #31

Maybe he got it wrong. Why don't you do the research and prove him wrong? nm rhett o rick Mar 2015 #43

IMHO sheshe2 Mar 2015 #44

The best way to prove an OP wrong is to post some facts. Responders don't have to rhett o rick Mar 2015 #52

I just asked a question, silly me. No I did not disparage the Op. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #56

It's up to the OP to support his claim. I asked MineralMan Mar 2015 #110

Yes. Hissyspit Mar 2015 #33

Post removed Post removed Mar 2015 #34

Um, no. Hissyspit Mar 2015 #36

You and MineralMan need to learn how to search the Internet. DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2015 #39

a simple question with all due respect. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #47

I'm not the OP, but I assume he was using the number as the basis for discussion. DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2015 #48

Thanks for your answer....I appreciate it DisgustipatedinCA sheshe2 Mar 2015 #49

Mister man non sequitur du jour Cosmic Kitten Mar 2015 #53

How is asking politely for the source of a statistic MineralMan Mar 2015 #112

Well you know how sometimes people just forget all about web searches! Rex Mar 2015 #158

I guess it takes too long to google something. Rex Mar 2015 #157

You must have been a hoot when certain civil rights polled really poorly. NCTraveler Mar 2015 #20

Do you see any differences between civil rights and "free" trade? MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #40

I'd be amazed if more than 10% of Americans even know what "TPP" stands for. Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #30

Yep.... Cali_Democrat Mar 2015 #50

Interesting, eh? No idea you say??? Cosmic Kitten Mar 2015 #54

The "establishment" knows exactly what TPP is Cali_Democrat Mar 2015 #62

Oh bull. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #65

You think the average American knows about TPP? Cali_Democrat Mar 2015 #66

I think your description of the 'average american' as someone watching the kardashians is ND-Dem Mar 2015 #67

Americans, in general, are easily manipulated and dumber than a sack of hammers Cali_Democrat Mar 2015 #70

good thing we have people like you to help us dumb fucks. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #71

Happy to help. nt Cali_Democrat Mar 2015 #74

Exactly. Half the country doesn't even bother to vote. R B Garr Mar 2015 #68

Maybe they have their reasons. But folks like you wouldn't think to ask the people you ND-Dem Mar 2015 #73

What? That makes no sense. R B Garr Mar 2015 #75

"It's just a fact". like air. there's no reason for it, people are just stupid. it's a law of ND-Dem Mar 2015 #77

Good grief. R B Garr Mar 2015 #80

+100. Yeah, I find it pretty interesting that our "leaders" don't feel it necessary to inform ND-Dem Mar 2015 #64

Most Americans do know, at this point, Oilwellian Mar 2015 #91

+1 treestar Mar 2015 #72

Toilet Paper Patrol. L0oniX Mar 2015 #126

Here's what the "toilet paper patrol" should do to edumacate those that don't understand... cascadiance Mar 2015 #129

Great find! +1 L0oniX Mar 2015 #166

K and R bigwillq Mar 2015 #35

Recommended. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #37

Two thirds of Manny's personas say what? JoePhilly Mar 2015 #45

Post removed Post removed Mar 2015 #55

Cosmic kitty's post should not have been hidden. JoePhilly Mar 2015 #176

posted to for later. 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #63

You sure you want to. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #76

K&R. JDPriestly Mar 2015 #83

I think this relates to Citizens United and election funding daredtowork Mar 2015 #84

+100 "First they came for the homeless, but I was not homeless...." ND-Dem Mar 2015 #94

K&R! This post deserves hundreds of recommendations! Enthusiast Mar 2015 #90

You are outraged hear you roar..and roar..repackage and roar..same outrage different roar. great white snark Mar 2015 #96

... sheshe2 Mar 2015 #99

plenty of people care. and the leaked draft = no longer conjecture. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #117

And you have to click and comment because?????? Soooo easy to skip this stuff, if djean111 Mar 2015 #127

I'm outraged that you're outraged! neverforget Mar 2015 #178

Bwahahaha! Yes! Nailed it. I will be forced to borrow that, neverforget, because that seems to be djean111 Apr 2015 #181

Our President works for the elites Quantess Mar 2015 #105

Huge K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Mar 2015 #106

Yeah right, I would guess 3/4 of Americans have no idea what fast track is tritsofme Mar 2015 #109

Whatever shareholders pay for, we all get. raouldukelives Mar 2015 #113

+100 ND-Dem Mar 2015 #123

Stupid little serfs need not worry. The big shots are deciding everything for us. L0oniX Mar 2015 #124

they're so smart. we're so dumb. and lazy. and fat. i heard it at DU. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #131

You could just libodem Mar 2015 #130

We shall see. Rex Mar 2015 #150

Speaking for myself only, back in the 80s, it was 10-18. ScreamingMeemie Mar 2015 #154

Me too, but I knew at 13 Reagan was evil to the core. That the GOP were all corporate sellouts. Rex Mar 2015 #156

Sounds like vile fear-mongering to me, I don't think he is trying to ram it down our throat. Hoyt Mar 2015 #180

If I understand it correctly. 99Forever Apr 2015 #182