General Discussion

WillTwain

(1,489 posts)

111. The total package is never better in non-union places.

Wed Apr 1, 2015, 03:19 PM

Apr 2015

You need to add in all the benefits. If an industry has both union and non-union, there is no competition. Rarely, non-union will try to match "on the check" pay, but it is only a game. Check out vacation time, healthcare and pension or 401k contributions - no comparison.

Never better for scabs.

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Democrat's Apathy For Unions Is Suicide [View all] WillTwain Apr 2015 OP

See what I mean WillTwain Apr 2015 #1

I was outside washing windows TNNurse Apr 2015 #29

Precisely. WillTwain Apr 2015 #38

Get This For Proof Of Apathy On DU WillTwain Apr 2015 #93

mineralman has a big following Doctor_J Apr 2015 #155

That was my gut Feeling on Mineralman. WillTwain Apr 2015 #158

Many of the best DUers have moved on to other venues where issues like this are still as sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #168

Dr. J. WillTwain Apr 2015 #205

It goes back to before I was a doctor Doctor_J Apr 2015 #217

Priceless Quote - "I never felt comfortable playing a populist" - Barack Obama WillTwain Apr 2015 #222

K and R. I DO see what you mean. Smarmie Doofus Apr 2015 #2

Nothing is more frustrating WillTwain Apr 2015 #3

There's always been a vague uneasiness among many ( not ALL, not MOST) Smarmie Doofus Apr 2015 #8

I tell you what, you nailed it. I could not sum it up better. WillTwain Apr 2015 #9

+100 ND-Dem Apr 2015 #41

Yes we all look down at the plumber, builder, electrician yeoman6987 Apr 2015 #136

Honesty , Is such a lonely word . - Billy Joel WillTwain Apr 2015 #183

+1. People might not recognize the importance of tradesmen & skilled workers until their appalachiablue Apr 2015 #203

Another lie is government is bad. So, corporations are better? What the hell is that? WillTwain Apr 2015 #204

+1 n/t Alkene Apr 2015 #179

Quite right. It's my observation as well over the past 2 decades Populist_Prole Apr 2015 #12

Republicans hate unions for two reasons, primarily. Democrats for another. WillTwain Apr 2015 #16

Good summation Populist_Prole Apr 2015 #23

It comes down to stupidity with "wing-nuts." WillTwain Apr 2015 #27

Without a single poster saying a negative thing about unions, you resort to "they look down on us". ieoeja Apr 2015 #60

My opinion is based on experience. Others appear to have recognized the same. WillTwain Apr 2015 #65

Well, us blue collar Democrats don't look down on them because the only ones of us even surviving Dragonfli Apr 2015 #161

yes, all the building trades unions here are hurting bad. it's deliberate union busting pure ND-Dem Apr 2015 #165

Like you said, "The only ones of us even surviving are union members." WillTwain Apr 2015 #225

As the mother of an experienced union electrician, I can add that there are increasingly Nay Apr 2015 #227

Yes, no matter how one looks at it, those not born wealthy are pretty much screwed from now on Dragonfli Apr 2015 #228

Economic class advancement in America is the worst in the Western world WillTwain Apr 2015 #231

This is not how it has to be. WillTwain Apr 2015 #230

Good for you -- I did the same thing. PrefersaPension Apr 2015 #145

Seems there are "Democrats" RedCappedBandit Apr 2015 #174

I have worked Blue and white collar. Both have advantages. WillTwain Apr 2015 #184

Agreed, and it's a tad stupid considering white collar unions like the Teacher's union whathehell Apr 2015 #49

Unfortunately, solidarity is not why some are in unions. WillTwain Apr 2015 #52

The majority of Union members working in entertainment are Teamsters, Electricians, Carpenters, Bluenorthwest Apr 2015 #214

A few people get it. WillTwain Apr 2015 #215

I hope you didn't misunderstand me -- I am 100% Pro-Union whathehell Apr 2015 #216

Amen WillTwain Apr 2015 #221

Very balanced and thoughtful perspective. beerandjesus Apr 2015 #75

You raise some good points Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Apr 2015 #206

Oh, it's absolutely appalling how Boeing's been doing that.... beerandjesus Apr 2015 #211

Shameless WillTwain Apr 2015 #220

And having been around (and working for) the Teamsters, AFL, CIO erronis Apr 2015 #58

Another great point. WillTwain Apr 2015 #61

(I have to say, sometimes the unions are on the corporations' side; but they're forced to at ND-Dem Apr 2015 #124

They are so weak today. WillTwain Apr 2015 #125

I can. ND-Dem Apr 2015 #17

Fire away! WillTwain Apr 2015 #22

Why support for labor is low here and the reverse is true for identity issues? ND-Dem Apr 2015 #25

Identity issues are used to herd us toward supporting corporate candidates.[n/t] Maedhros Apr 2015 #32

A great big head fake used to think democrats are with us. WillTwain Apr 2015 #40

More like a protection racket. Maedhros Apr 2015 #44

Love your tag line. WillTwain Apr 2015 #48

Democrats of all stripes need to muster the courage to defy conventional political calculus Maedhros Apr 2015 #59

Conventional wisdom is now conventional stupidity. WillTwain Apr 2015 #63

It's Party propaganda, and so many are willing to believe it. Maedhros Apr 2015 #64

Shit, that's a devastating article by Frank..... beerandjesus Apr 2015 #79

Hope is a lazy cowardly sales pitch. Like Frank say, deliver. WillTwain Apr 2015 #86

Or at least TRY to fuckin' deliver, right?? beerandjesus Apr 2015 #90

But it hit's the nail on the head, doesn't it? Maedhros Apr 2015 #87

With a sledge hammer. WillTwain Apr 2015 #89

even when they don't do diddly, or worse, sell us out, we're still supposed to shut up. ND-Dem Apr 2015 #127

devastating and so true. ND-Dem Apr 2015 #126

Wow, really well thought out. WillTwain Apr 2015 #132

Wow. +10000000. Beautifully said nt. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #178

why, i think you're right. anti-labor candidates supported by the likes of the Gap and ND-Dem Apr 2015 #123

I agree with you and it's baffling. City Lights Apr 2015 #4

This is why I believe the leaders of the "New Democratic" party are complicit with Republicans WillTwain Apr 2015 #5

BTW, I have a good analogy for social "vs" economic liberalism MisterP Apr 2015 #6

Great way of saying it WillTwain Apr 2015 #7

exactly--unions have had to build coalitions since the failure of lily-white unionism in the 1900s MisterP Apr 2015 #15

Nice, WillTwain Apr 2015 #18

the DLC took over 1994-6, arguing the party had to "move to the center" after '94's "GOP wave" MisterP Apr 2015 #46

Fighting real power (Big money and Wall Street) takes guts. WillTwain Apr 2015 #54

a lot of them will tell you it never happened. ND-Dem Apr 2015 #128

Yes. It's not complete apathy yet... Orsino Apr 2015 #10

Reagan really got the ball rolling. That prick ruined everything - everything. WillTwain Apr 2015 #11

Teachers... madfloridian Apr 2015 #13

Still, They need to pick a party. There is hope with democrats. No chance with Republicans. WillTwain Apr 2015 #19

Nothing personal, but ironic in light of your defense of the extreme anti-union shop "Amazon". ND-Dem Apr 2015 #20

Teachers are just next on the laundry list. Join the crowd. WillTwain Apr 2015 #24

+100 (Though I tend to disagree about Europe these days; same tactics in play). ND-Dem Apr 2015 #26

They are losing it a bit. WillTwain Apr 2015 #30

good on them. ND-Dem Apr 2015 #31

In Texas teachers cannot strike nor even say the word 'union'. It seems the Reganites won the war. Rex Apr 2015 #92

The brain washing works. The voucher thing is a perfect example. As is the flat tax mantra repeated WillTwain Apr 2015 #100

You will see a lot of DUer missing from pro-union threads. Rex Apr 2015 #102

and a lot of them are apparently Party operatives. Surprise, surprise. ND-Dem Apr 2015 #130

Key to understand: Larry Summers, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, Rahm Emannual, WillTwain Apr 2015 #190

have they been paying attention? there are charters to hell and gone, and they're mostly ND-Dem Apr 2015 #129

+1,000,000 K&Rs ND-Dem Apr 2015 #14

That is it. WillTwain Apr 2015 #21

It's the circular firing squad that is the hallmark of the Democratic Party... MaggieD Apr 2015 #28

Do you have a solution to the dying middle class? I think it is unions. WillTwain Apr 2015 #34

I agree... MaggieD Apr 2015 #43

There is a reason why Republicans hate unions more than anything else. WillTwain Apr 2015 #56

I think unions are the solution too MaggieD Apr 2015 #232

Blaming [X] for political losses is just a convenient means to avoid placing blame where it belongs: Maedhros Apr 2015 #36

Exactly.... MaggieD Apr 2015 #39

Blaming Nader for Gore's horrible campaign is the iconic example. [n/t] Maedhros Apr 2015 #45

Nope - that's actually a perfect example of... MaggieD Apr 2015 #51

I saw him speak at the Schnitzer Auditorium in Portland in the nineties. Maedhros Apr 2015 #62

Nader is behind Rand Paul WillTwain Apr 2015 #66

I wouldn't put it quite that way. Maedhros Apr 2015 #70

True, WillTwain Apr 2015 #72

I do understand what he's getting at. Maedhros Apr 2015 #82

Nader is an egotistical gadfly, IMO MaggieD Apr 2015 #74

In the 2000 presidential election in Florida, George W. Bush defeated Al Gore by 537 votes. ND-Dem Apr 2015 #133

Gore would have been an excellent President MaggieD Apr 2015 #73

The world we be a dramatically better place if Scalia did not appoint Bush. WillTwain Apr 2015 #77

And we wouldn't have had a dozen terrible USSC decisions MaggieD Apr 2015 #78

Nader has done some great work. Nader damaged Gore in Florida. Two facts. WillTwain Apr 2015 #81

I agree MaggieD Apr 2015 #107

More Florida Democrats went for Bush than for Nader, but you blame Nader. Okey-dokey. ND-Dem Apr 2015 #141

Yep - I definitely blame Nader MaggieD Apr 2015 #146

Pinning Gore's loss on Nader has never made much sense, given all the other factors that played into Maedhros Apr 2015 #84

I'm not a right leaning democrat MaggieD Apr 2015 #105

+100 ND-Dem Apr 2015 #134

Gore won Florida Oilwellian Apr 2015 #95

True, IMO - but the disunity made it close enough to steal MaggieD Apr 2015 #106

I saw him speak in Seattle in the 90s. I found him inspiring and I'll echo your comments ND-Dem Apr 2015 #131

He gives a good speech AND throws major temper tantrums MaggieD Apr 2015 #147

More florida democrats voted for Bush than for Nader; about 5 times more in fact. ND-Dem Apr 2015 #148

Because 97 thousand people in FL voted for Nader MaggieD Apr 2015 #149

and half a million florida democrats went for bush. ND-Dem Apr 2015 #150

Yes, it's a swing state MaggieD Apr 2015 #152

Do you have ANY proof whatsoever they weren't Republicans? Major Hogwash Apr 2015 #163

No, just experience in politics and common sense MaggieD Apr 2015 #166

wasn't there a purge of lgbt here not so long ago? ND-Dem Apr 2015 #37

I don't know.... MaggieD Apr 2015 #42

There were a lot of really ugly GLBT posters. ieoeja Apr 2015 #53

Maybe they hold a grudge MaggieD Apr 2015 #76

worse than "homophobic." Rick Warren = guest of honor at his inauguration. WTF? ND-Dem Apr 2015 #135

Yep. I was surprised that Obama turned around... MaggieD Apr 2015 #151

Warren came, gave the invocation. Why do you say Obama "turned around"? He never ND-Dem Apr 2015 #153

His administration refused to support DOMA MaggieD Apr 2015 #156

DOMA: Enacted under Clinton ("by large, veto-proof majorities") ND-Dem Apr 2015 #157

Well, you'd be wrong in my book MaggieD Apr 2015 #159

The links are not intended to be condescending, as I know nothing about you. They are ND-Dem Apr 2015 #162

Okay no problem MaggieD Apr 2015 #167

they were purged as LGBT, en masse, right? ND-Dem Apr 2015 #122

No, they were purged as assholes or trolls. ieoeja Apr 2015 #185

I didn't ask if they were purged "for being LGBT". ND-Dem Apr 2015 #192

So what? They were assholes. They were purged. Are you suggesting PPR should be rationed? n/t ieoeja Apr 2015 #193

No; I'm suggesting "asshole" is a subjective term. Regardless, there was a group of ND-Dem Apr 2015 #195

The correlation with the folks that don't give a damn about working class needs and now the TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #229

Wall Street pays better Kelvin Mace Apr 2015 #33

Yeah, but unions can offer workplace safety and sick pay. Let them know that. WillTwain Apr 2015 #35

Some unions are more equal than others tularetom Apr 2015 #47

Great point. I get physically ill thinking about police unions. WillTwain Apr 2015 #50

Exactly right. blackspade Apr 2015 #55

They used to be and life was good. WillTwain Apr 2015 #57

For the record Unions vote their own interests.... Historic NY Apr 2015 #67

Understood - people are inherently selfish. WillTwain Apr 2015 #68

Here be the rub. Savannahmann Apr 2015 #69

Interesting take that almost nobody is thinking about. WillTwain Apr 2015 #71

That's because unions,.... construction trade unions anyway are.... NM_Birder Apr 2015 #80

We have nothing in common. My experience is exactly the opposite. WillTwain Apr 2015 #83

LOL,...I call them MY GUYS because WE NM_Birder Apr 2015 #99

You blew it with the lame "team" crap. WillTwain Apr 2015 #103

LOL, someday, hopefully you'll understand what a "team" means, it's not "a crap term" lol NM_Birder Apr 2015 #114

The LOL thing is so trite. Get original. Scabs are conditioned by necessity to kiss-ass, back-stab WillTwain Apr 2015 #117

....... my 15 minute lunch breaks... really ? NM_Birder Apr 2015 #194

First Mr. Pre-conceived, If you have more money than me you would not be working - I retired early. WillTwain Apr 2015 #196

rah rah rah, NM_Birder Apr 2015 #198

Read comment 200, you must stop your silly assumptions and trite rebuttals. WillTwain Apr 2015 #201

Every stereotype you have about me has been wrong, every one. How do you feel about that? WillTwain Apr 2015 #202

My guess is not only are you not a worker; you're also not a democrat. ND-Dem Apr 2015 #138

? think you skipped a track there timmy, NM_Birder Apr 2015 #180

i see your type all the time as well. nasty. ND-Dem Apr 2015 #181

Low end Wolf of Wall Street WillTwain Apr 2015 #182

appreciate the "youngster" comment, NM_Birder Apr 2015 #197

First, I thought you were much younger judging by your comments saying how quick you made it. WillTwain Apr 2015 #200

no worries, I can't remember if I mentioned my age before or not, NM_Birder Apr 2015 #207

You sound satisfied. I am happy for you. WillTwain Apr 2015 #209

Nice to see we will part ways without hating each others guts. NM_Birder Apr 2015 #212

I am sure we have much in common - a couple of scrappy self-made dudes. WillTwain Apr 2015 #213

"team" yeah, right. ND-Dem Apr 2015 #137

It is like one of those Real Estate billboards, "Team Greenspan Is On Your Side." WillTwain Apr 2015 #223

Must be a regional issue. Here, it's the opposite. haele Apr 2015 #97

He is a corporate shill. WillTwain Apr 2015 #104

I think you just heard that word enough to convince yourself you understand what it is. NM_Birder Apr 2015 #113

Probably is a regional thing to an extent. NM_Birder Apr 2015 #112

The Turd Way views unions with pure disdain. hifiguy Apr 2015 #85

Barack is no slacker, either. WillTwain Apr 2015 #88

Nope. All the campaign promises to labor hifiguy Apr 2015 #91

50 frickin' years WillTwain Apr 2015 #96

The Reich-Wing has done such an assbusting job at smearing the unions over the past 35 years, Dont call me Shirley Apr 2015 #94

Battle-fatigue is real. WillTwain Apr 2015 #98

Well the gop has conducted a relentless war on unions. Collective PTSD? Dont call me Shirley Apr 2015 #101

not just the gop, sad but true. ND-Dem Apr 2015 #139

Corporate America Dont call me Shirley Apr 2015 #143

I've never worked in a job that had a union SickOfTheOnePct Apr 2015 #108

You are missing out. No question you would like your job more for many reasons if you had a union. WillTwain Apr 2015 #109

Could be SickOfTheOnePct Apr 2015 #110

The total package is never better in non-union places. WillTwain Apr 2015 #111

Publix is employee-owned. ND-Dem Apr 2015 #140

To good to be true. There had to be a reason. WillTwain Apr 2015 #142

well, that doesn't always mean much, but it probably has something to do with their ability to pay ND-Dem Apr 2015 #144

For the first time in my life, I will be an actual union member at my new job. alarimer Apr 2015 #115

Congratulations WillTwain Apr 2015 #116

Too many are embarrassed to admit Jakes Progress Apr 2015 #118

Yes sir, WillTwain Apr 2015 #119

Without an opposition, employers will do what they Dustlawyer Apr 2015 #120

Unions are declining along with workers-rights, wages and respect. WillTwain Apr 2015 #121

totally agree.... mike_c Apr 2015 #154

Kick and rec again! F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #160

Unions don't require loyalty to any political party to join them. Major Hogwash Apr 2015 #164

Also, a sad fact is many in labor actually voted for Reagan, which sure wasn't in their best still_one Apr 2015 #170

Guns, too. Reagan Democrats are the most confused manipulated group in American politics. WillTwain Apr 2015 #188

Actually, labor went back the Democrats after Reagan. However you are right about manipulation still_one Apr 2015 #199

Actually many union members left the Democratic party to vote for reagan. They were upset with still_one Apr 2015 #169

Remember all the bad stuff you have heard from NC lately? Well there is a strong connection... Lee-Lee Apr 2015 #171

k & r lovemydog Apr 2015 #172

That ship has sailed.. sendero Apr 2015 #173

Americans do not worry until the water is up to their noses. WillTwain Apr 2015 #187

I'd love to see... sendero Apr 2015 #189

Germany WillTwain Apr 2015 #191

Kicked and recommended a whole bunch! Enthusiast Apr 2015 #175

Love the enthusiasm and the peace sign WillTwain Apr 2015 #224

democratic politicians could give a crap about unions RedstDem Apr 2015 #176

Trumka should tell them to go to hell. Then they would be scrambling. WillTwain Apr 2015 #186

K&R Liberalynn Apr 2015 #177

No apathy or disdain for unions here Bettie Apr 2015 #208

Nearly everybody is a product of unions. Many do not want to face it. WillTwain Apr 2015 #210

The fate of the middle class AgingAmerican Apr 2015 #218

Pure and simple truth WillTwain Apr 2015 #219

Excellent post! JDPriestly Apr 2015 #226