General Discussion

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)

110. Yes. The kind of risk assessment described by the cartoon has a cost.

Tue Apr 7, 2015, 12:30 PM

Apr 2015

When I was young 45 years ago, I was completely naive. Sure! I'll help you find your puppy! Luckily for me, most people are basically good.

As time goes on, I add protective layers. When selling something on craigslist, I now ask to meet on neutral, public, ground. Why? Not because of personal experience, but because of shared anecdotes.

Those protective layers serve to (this isn't the word I'm looking for, but it is as close as I have right now) dehumanize others. They're not people just like me, they're potential risk vectors.

I imagine what it's like to be equipped from childhood with all these protective layers. "Avoid those people, those neighborhoods. Assume they're bad unless and until proven otherwise." It may be good safety advice, and may be why people really are so much safer than they have ever been, but I think it's no coincidence that the politics of fear resonates so strongly with americans.

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A cartoon about rape culture and risk [View all] Brickbat Apr 2015 OP

Very powerful cartoon Gothmog Apr 2015 #1

you you you feminists say we are all potential rapists. end of cartoon, and still she is blamed seabeyond Apr 2015 #2

K & R. n/t FSogol Apr 2015 #3

If all personal relations ended with "It's not my job to communicate my feelings..." Bonobo Apr 2015 #4

Victim-blaming makes a lot more sense if you think that "let's meet in public" means "I think you're Brickbat Apr 2015 #5

Who is the victim blamer here? Who is the victim? Bonobo Apr 2015 #8

Clearly you missed this part: eggplant Apr 2015 #14

I already told you that I do understand her position and feelings. Bonobo Apr 2015 #15

No. Trust is earned. eggplant Apr 2015 #19

She owes him nothing. He owes her nothing. It's a wash. Bonobo Apr 2015 #23

She communicated. he was unwilling to accept. hence, her walking. you got that right seabeyond Apr 2015 #27

"It's not my fucking job to educate you." Bonobo Apr 2015 #29

wow, you are kinda give us exactly the same example of that man, and the conclusion..... not my job seabeyond Apr 2015 #32

she was patient thru out the whole thing, politely taking his feelers into consideration. seabeyond Apr 2015 #34

You did not have to engage in this subthread for this long, Seabeyond. Bonobo Apr 2015 #38

nor did i suggest you controlled me at all, so bogus statement. you are WANTING this man seabeyond Apr 2015 #42

He neither ignored her nor got his way. Bonobo Apr 2015 #36

he ignored her to TRY and get his way. she walked. seabeyond Apr 2015 #37

You need to stop portraying women as having no agency. Bonobo Apr 2015 #41

you need to stop creating false statement attributed to me. the woman exhibited her agency, seabeyond Apr 2015 #43

She had no responsibility to the man. Bonobo Apr 2015 #46

you and i agree. she had no responsibility to man so quit trying to make her. have a good day. seabeyond Apr 2015 #57

Night time for me. Bonobo Apr 2015 #58

"She is in the position of power here and she claims it. Good for her. " seabeyond Apr 2015 #40

Uh, no that is what I just said, not you. Bonobo Apr 2015 #44

No, I can read just fine. eggplant Apr 2015 #39

because in this case the person with "empathy" hopemountain Apr 2015 #161

Yeah, especially when this is a guy who completely ignores her feelings in the first place, cui bono Apr 2015 #199

If a guy is that fucking stupid pintobean Apr 2015 #97

... he SHOULD never get a date. fixed it. seabeyond Apr 2015 #100

So let's attempt to equalize the risk, shall we? thucythucy Apr 2015 #145

His position, after he gets over the hurt, might be that he understands why it wasn't personal Gormy Cuss Apr 2015 #181

She doesn't know him, why should she trust him? cui bono Apr 2015 #192

I never even said she SHOULD trust him. Bonobo Apr 2015 #195

She suggested a few times to meet somewhere public and he refused and continued to state cui bono Apr 2015 #198

Look. I am not that invested. Bonobo Apr 2015 #201

But you seemed adamant that the woman owed the man some sort of discussion for some reason. cui bono Apr 2015 #204

Not at all. Just read my posts and you will see I actually said over and over Bonobo Apr 2015 #205

Only people who have read your posts would read adamant into your JTFrog Apr 2015 #208

Men are the victims of murder at the hands of police, that's right. Bonobo Apr 2015 #211

I don't have a problem with facts. JTFrog Apr 2015 #213

Some women. Some. Bonobo Apr 2015 #215

Yea, those with a functional brain and a survival instinct apparently. n/t JTFrog Apr 2015 #216

right. the ONE argument i didnt address in this thread. the whole damn SOME thing. that a handful seabeyond Apr 2015 #217

you could not get the sympathy for men, cause the woman finally said fuck it. so now, you DEMAND seabeyond Apr 2015 #218

You've gone off the tracks in all seriousness. Bonobo Apr 2015 #219

you just simply cannot shift this to women's fault dude. one way or another. seabeyond Apr 2015 #221

so fuggin' funny. are you really throwing in the emotionally/mentally unstable. what is it you men seabeyond Apr 2015 #222

I apologize if I misrepresented you as "adamant". I honestly can't see how anyone could possibly cui bono Apr 2015 #224

I'd suggest that he keep those feelings to himself. stone space Apr 2015 #80

she did. communicate her feelings... BlancheSplanchnik Apr 2015 #160

Uh huh. eggplant Apr 2015 #10

god forbid a man get his feebles hurt. Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2015 #49

It's amazing, isn't it? YoungDemCA Apr 2015 #52

and somehow we are supposed to "care" about some stranger's feebles when Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2015 #65

I don't know, at this point in the conversation whether I am already too tired or too bored seabeyond Apr 2015 #84

You are doing sunflowers this year? cool. Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2015 #90

Yes - well i think the strip did a pretty good job of addressing that particular concern el_bryanto Apr 2015 #11

Absolutely, that is why I said EXACTLY the same thing above. Bonobo Apr 2015 #12

Sorry, but that's just complete bullshit. eggplant Apr 2015 #16

Sorry that is not really explaining her feelings. Bonobo Apr 2015 #18

if she explains he is a potential RAPIST.... then all hell breaks loose and men go crazy seabeyond Apr 2015 #22

She doesn't have to do anything she doesn't want. Bonobo Apr 2015 #26

no. you are beyond questioning a supposed weird statement. that is not weird at all, seabeyond Apr 2015 #28

I'm sorry that is exactly what I am questioning. Bonobo Apr 2015 #33

He completely transgressed on her boundaries. eggplant Apr 2015 #45

No he didn't. Reread the cartoon. Bonobo Apr 2015 #50

You're kidding, right? eggplant Apr 2015 #60

thumbs up. maybe we just had to be in the position of priorities the mans feelings, .... seabeyond Apr 2015 #64

Not at all, Seabeyond. Bonobo Apr 2015 #73

Much as him ignoring her repeated requests to meet in a public spot? LanternWaste Apr 2015 #85

I didn't say she made an error, eggplant. Bonobo Apr 2015 #66

No, you pretty much did. eggplant Apr 2015 #70

That's not an "error", eggplant. Bonobo Apr 2015 #76

Yeah - kind of creepy how he brought up rapists. whopis01 Apr 2015 #144

creepy is right! hopemountain Apr 2015 #164

I was thinking the same thing. yardwork Apr 2015 #168

excellent points, yardwork. hopemountain Apr 2015 #173

All the stars! Starry Messenger Apr 2015 #182

+1 pinboy3niner Apr 2015 #202

She didn't fail to do anything. eggplant Apr 2015 #24

This seems like a pretty clear description of her feelings to me. stone space Apr 2015 #48

Well, if the guy has ulterior motives... YoungDemCA Apr 2015 #55

who is ocncerned by being raped, after all, and her responsibility to PREVENT that fuggin rape. seabeyond Apr 2015 #61

+1 yardwork Apr 2015 #169

..... YoungDemCA Apr 2015 #47

Why would a "nice guy" insist on having a first meeting at his place? XemaSab Apr 2015 #51

Not all men are nice guys and not all women are nice girls. nt Bonobo Apr 2015 #54

WTF does that even mean? eggplant Apr 2015 #63

False equivalency YoungDemCA Apr 2015 #68

That's exactly the point, though YoungDemCA Apr 2015 #62

almost like the three yr old, being at fault, for her rape, in another fuckin thread. seabeyond Apr 2015 #75

"Boo fucking hoo." point. no more to be said. oh.... besides ALL the other shit you said, lol. seabeyond Apr 2015 #69

totally fucking amazing. i have to walk from the thread, and du... while i breathe. seabeyond Apr 2015 #71

Very very very low anger threshold you have. nt Bonobo Apr 2015 #79

ya. when we are talking ignore women's rape? ya. kinda like not feeling sorry for a man in garage seabeyond Apr 2015 #87

You have this down to a fine art. I've read what you said, and you are very very invested... Hekate Apr 2015 #112

+1 Starry Messenger Apr 2015 #146

self deleting Skittles Apr 2015 #156

That sounds like the creepiest first date I can imagine. hughee99 Apr 2015 #124

Wow tazkcmo Apr 2015 #77

I think you're slightly off here, Bonobo justiceischeap Apr 2015 #88

Exactly jeff47 Apr 2015 #132

police stations are opening their premises for craig's list meets. mopinko Apr 2015 #157

He could just meet her in public treestar Apr 2015 #91

Bad timing, bad choice of places to make this theoretically valid point. TygrBright Apr 2015 #95

ya dude. you are right, except you are not. i think that makes communication a little easier. seabeyond Apr 2015 #96

Aside from not being a dude, I take your point. TygrBright Apr 2015 #103

i know you are not a dude. i was taking your position talking to bonobo. seabeyond Apr 2015 #106

How sad and predictable. n/t JTFrog Apr 2015 #99

"What men fear most about women? Buzz cook Apr 2015 #139

So, lets use an analogy. KitSileya Apr 2015 #140

And yet here on this thread thucythucy Apr 2015 #147

Lol. Guy acts creepy and disregards woman's well-founded safety concerns, and it becomes geek tragedy Apr 2015 #151

If HE understood her feelings HE would not have HIS feelings. Glassunion Apr 2015 #162

Actually... On a re-read of your post, I'd like to point out a shitty point that was made. Glassunion Apr 2015 #166

Here, let me graph out your post so everyone can see the complex message you presented, visually Scootaloo Apr 2015 #177

K & R historylovr Apr 2015 #6

always drink from the bottle - don't do mixed drinks and don't accept a drink. keep your eye samsingh Apr 2015 #7

take it into the toilet with you to guard that drink. dance? well buy a new drink every time you get seabeyond Apr 2015 #13

it's not about fault but protection. the fault is the idiots who would put something in anyone's samsingh Apr 2015 #17

your right. and lets also look at the ridiculousness that a woman has to go thru, to seabeyond Apr 2015 #25

you are absolutely correct. samsingh Apr 2015 #116

No, hurt anyone's feelings that you want. Bonobo Apr 2015 #21

As XemaSab pointed out, the guy in this scenario is acting like a creep YoungDemCA Apr 2015 #67

And she's telepathic, so she knows he's innocent, right? jeff47 Apr 2015 #138

He was pressuring her into being alone with him the first time she meets him when she stated gollygee Apr 2015 #149

Good discussion of risk NJCher Apr 2015 #9

other risk assessments men don't have to make central scrutinizer Apr 2015 #20

I'm just curious, is this in a generally-unsafe area? MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #31

really manny? when was your day? and how often did you have conversation with these women? seabeyond Apr 2015 #53

Don't mind him YoungDemCA Apr 2015 #59

yes young. i learned a while ago, out of blue, that manny wasnt too concerned about my issues. seabeyond Apr 2015 #82

Yep, yep and yep. ALL of that. Number23 Apr 2015 #197

1980s, I knew many, MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #123

oboxious? you acuse me of being obnoxious? you are a man telling me us young women were not seabeyond Apr 2015 #126

That's absolutely not what I said. MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #128

oh, manny. ya. whatever. seabeyond Apr 2015 #130

This survived a jury 1 to 6. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #134

Jury comments, FYI Auggie Apr 2015 #135

All you have to do is watch the news to see how many assaults occur on women on campuses. cui bono Apr 2015 #200

I started college in 1968, and we were VERY concerned about rape, and I knew women who were raped tblue37 Apr 2015 #207

I was in college in the late '60s, and it was known there was some creep hanging out in the stacks Hekate Apr 2015 #122

I guess I went to school with many ignorant women, then. nt MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #125

Indeed, you're 'guessing.' LanternWaste Apr 2015 #137

Did you ever ask? We internalize the message, yet don't want to make men uncomfortable.... Hekate Apr 2015 #158

I just asked my wife, who I met at school... MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #163

so the answer is yes.... she was concerned. be it ten at night, or making trip while concerned. seabeyond Apr 2015 #172

Well, if you look at my original question, and MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #180

wow. now he slights all women, dismissing your post, while accusing me of obnoxious! interesting. nt seabeyond Apr 2015 #127

oh oh oh, while the question is.... did you listen to the women of your time? while he seabeyond Apr 2015 #129

I make it a practice to never engage with this particular poster.... Hekate Apr 2015 #131

i hear ya.... kinda my position as well. seabeyond Apr 2015 #133

Jury Results. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #141

Thank you for letting me know of this event and its result Hekate Apr 2015 #142

When were you in college? gollygee Apr 2015 #150

All answered above. nt MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #153

Rape doesn't just happen in "unsafe areas." thucythucy Apr 2015 #193

I didn't write that it does, MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #214

If someone needs to be educated on the importance of MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #30

If I were single, and wanted to meet a woman who I only knew over the internet, then I'd... stone space Apr 2015 #56

It's odd that many of the same people who tell us that females must take on a measure... LanternWaste Apr 2015 #35

exacty. exactly latern. thank you. i sit in the duh... of this. and this is far from the first seabeyond Apr 2015 #92

+1 fishwax Apr 2015 #212

Hey, the man is facing risks, too! She might laugh at him. tclambert Apr 2015 #72

Excellent point there. Hekate Apr 2015 #159

Very good. cwydro Apr 2015 #74

That's a great cartoon. nt ZombieHorde Apr 2015 #78

My mother was female guillaumeb Apr 2015 #81

Meh. I'm a guy and I wouldn't meet a woman I met on the internet at her house either. redgreenandblue Apr 2015 #83

I bet there are far more guys who fall for the "meet me at my house" stuff than women ProudToBeBlueInRhody Apr 2015 #109

I don't know if that cartoon dude is a rapist, but he's clearly an asshole. Orrex Apr 2015 #86

The guy who insists on those conditions treestar Apr 2015 #89

Do you think that the fear of rape is greater than it was 30 years ago? lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #93

Hard to say about fear. The awareness is certainly greater, as well as the understanding of what Brickbat Apr 2015 #94

When I think back to that time, perhaps people were naive. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #98

how steeply factoring in mans manipulation of numbers, raPE KITS IGNORED, police reports dismissed, seabeyond Apr 2015 #101

really jeff, lets now take this conversation to false rapes, decline of rapes, dismissing rapes. seabeyond Apr 2015 #104

"Losing the default assumption of humanity has a cost as well." Brickbat Apr 2015 #105

Yes. The kind of risk assessment described by the cartoon has a cost. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #110

So the greater awareness of the prevalence of actual occurances of rape is bad because it brings Brickbat Apr 2015 #120

a) I doubt that we are all aware of the actual prevalence. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #136

The man had no compassion or humanity from the get go. He ignored her extremely reasonable request cui bono Apr 2015 #203

As a cartoon, I anticipate this was a work of fiction. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #223

While the overall number of violent crimes is dropping in Dallas, rape is on the rise derby378 Apr 2015 #107

I suppose it's a good thing I'm not a woman. After the 3rd line, I'd tell him to politely fuck Off. BlueJazz Apr 2015 #102

then she is just the b word. no two ways about it. why wont they be nicer to the "nice" guys. seabeyond Apr 2015 #108

It's a full moon and this wonderful guy has invited me over to his den (Ok..Ok..He's part werewolf) BlueJazz Apr 2015 #115

you know. women have rape fantasies, after all.... seabeyond Apr 2015 #117

ya ya ya. one more. women rape men too.... i have heard it twice this weekend from young men. ... seabeyond Apr 2015 #111

Maybe it is just me, but I find it creepy that he would want to take her home for a first date. Rex Apr 2015 #119

Louis CK says it best Chalco Apr 2015 #113

+1. nt seabeyond Apr 2015 #118

That is so awesome wryter2000 Apr 2015 #154

I'm late to this party but this guy says it all! Big K&R! Nt riderinthestorm Apr 2015 #178

Exceptionally powerful, truthful, and real. Should be required reading. nt Hekate Apr 2015 #114

Risk vs consequences. A very succinct and compelling way to put it Ratty Apr 2015 #121

Yes! It has someone who uses a wheelchair! KamaAina Apr 2015 #143

Yes! thucythucy Apr 2015 #148

I'd have been done, too. Prism Apr 2015 #152

I don't see what's so difficult here shaayecanaan Apr 2015 #155

No sturm und drang in that. MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #165

I know, I don't know what came over me shaayecanaan Apr 2015 #167

except you participated in the crap. now you distance yourself from the crap. seabeyond Apr 2015 #175

I simply asked a question I was curious about. MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #179

charming. you dismiss women, then ignore women, then insult women. nt seabeyond Apr 2015 #183

I never dismiss, ignore, nor insult women as a whole. MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #186

Exactly. It's painful when some don't realize that, and take offense. Brickbat Apr 2015 #170

is this available in print? hopemountain Apr 2015 #171

I can't believe I didn't include the link! Brickbat Apr 2015 #174

Yes, living with rape culture *does* seem insanely complicated . . . MrModerate Apr 2015 #176

before teh 80's there was not even a name for it, wasnt called rape. date rape only started seabeyond Apr 2015 #184

Well, I was on the cusp of the 70s . . . MrModerate Apr 2015 #187

I'm sorry to say I think most men then thucythucy Apr 2015 #185

I marvel at the innocence of my cohort . . . MrModerate Apr 2015 #188

I wish you and your daughter thucythucy Apr 2015 #191

"I'll cut his balls off" seems like an appropriate response. ncjustice80 Apr 2015 #189

Approproate perhaps, thucythucy Apr 2015 #190

So what you re saying is... ncjustice80 Apr 2015 #209

This was great! Am sending it to all my female family members. Thank you. lexington filly Apr 2015 #194

Kick and R. BeanMusical Apr 2015 #196

Umm................ no, I don't like this. raven mad Apr 2015 #206

I don't think it's supposed to match every rape experience. Brickbat Apr 2015 #210

off putting at the least, men telling us we did not have to concern ourselves with rape in the past. seabeyond Apr 2015 #220