General Discussion

noamnety

(20,234 posts)

241. It's possible the mayo clinic is wrong.

Sat May 5, 2012, 08:05 AM

May 2012

Wait - no, on this they aren't. Again, it's the combination of FORCE and SUPPORT.

That's why runners are prone to it - they put excess force on their feet. Ditto for overweight and pregnant people. If we have enough force on our feet, we'll need excess support beyond what nature provided. You addressed one part of the equation, the support, and that worked for you. That doesn't make the equation meaningless in the real world at all.

That's nothing to do with superiority of me or of you. Whatever works for you is fine for you. But I'd hate for you to be spreading the false wisdom that the cause itself (excess force) is unrelated to the symptoms. If other people reading the thread are suffering with plantar fasciitis, they ought not to be misled about the causes - and thus the whole range of cures.

- from another person with excessively high arches, which did their job moderately well ... until they couldn't.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

313 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Dieting results in long term changes to hormones and muscle fibers. [View all] eridani May 2012 OP

Breaking news: maintaining a healthy weight is not easy Taitertots May 2012 #1

"Self control" being defined as eridani May 2012 #6

Self control being defined as eating the right foods in the right quantities Taitertots May 2012 #15

"Right" being defined as whatever it takes, no matter how crappy you feel eridani May 2012 #19

No one said it would be easy. If they won't accept a little discomfort... Taitertots May 2012 #31

Gay people could become straight is they were willing to accept discomfort also eridani May 2012 #72

Gay people could pretend to be straight and have major emotional suffering Taitertots May 2012 #79

No healthier than heterosexuality--depends on the individual in either case eridani May 2012 #101

LOL, you are not what I call an understanding person. But I bet you know that! Logical May 2012 #243

What I understand is that insecure people who need validation eridani May 2012 #278

No they could not. Equating the two is stupid Codeine May 2012 #84

It is certainly possible for gay people to live as straight eridani May 2012 #100

They can masquerade as straight, Codeine May 2012 #112

For 5% of the population. eridani May 2012 #113

Then I guess weight loss is simply impossible. nt Codeine May 2012 #115

No. Merely statistically improbable, at least when talking about significant poundage. eridani May 2012 #121

Conflating being fat with being gay? Nye Bevan May 2012 #125

Not if you are being rational about the subject. eridani May 2012 #147

Interesting. laundry_queen May 2012 #151

Just to confirm, mythology May 2012 #204

The analogy is 100% accurate in describing the way society treats both eridani May 2012 #220

Ah so you do think it's genetics 4th law of robotics May 2012 #225

Genetics and other factors that we can't do jackshit about except politically eridani May 2012 #232

Ah so the Japanese and Europeans must be a different species from us 4th law of robotics May 2012 #245

Bullshit. Obesity is increasing all over the world eridani May 2012 #263

Interesting, you point out how the Japanese and Europeans 4th law of robotics May 2012 #265

You can't change genetics, and you can't change environmental factors either as an individual eridani May 2012 #271

This is an incorrect statement: noamnety May 2012 #291

The same exercise and diet program leads to widely disparate results for different people eridani May 2012 #292

Nobody said you should be concerned about your riding results. noamnety May 2012 #293

And intervals can be extremely dangerous for people over 65 eridani May 2012 #294

Why? Drahthaardogs May 2012 #284

But, healthy doesn't *need* to mean discomfort. Really! Habibi May 2012 #36

Great advice. nobodyspecial May 2012 #41

This is why Weight Watchers is so successful. YellowRubberDuckie May 2012 #45

Weight Watchers has no documented long term success whatsoever. eridani May 2012 #68

That is not true. YellowRubberDuckie May 2012 #76

They neither track nor publish their long term results eridani May 2012 #102

I'm convinced Weight Watchers makes people fat spinbaby May 2012 #77

Personally, I think WW is a bit cookie-cutter. Habibi May 2012 #82

Before the bypas nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #91

Thank you spinbaby May 2012 #122

Healthy eating does not imply weight loss. eridani May 2012 #66

Well said! JNelson6563 May 2012 #78

I appreciate the supportive tone BUT hairy krishna May 2012 #295

As far as weight loss goes, I think calories are "equal." Habibi May 2012 #296

NO. They are NOT equal. the peoples summit May 2012 #307

I did understand you. Habibi May 2012 #308

It DOES matter because the food functions differently. banana convention. May 2012 #309

Give it up. Habibi May 2012 #312

I think it really depends on how YOU DO IT nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #64

For plenty of people "listening to your body" leaves you fat eridani May 2012 #70

But for plenty of people it doesn't nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #90

Actually, they don't need to feel hungry. Habibi May 2012 #33

The article in the OP would suggest otherwise Taitertots May 2012 #34

You need to read more closely nobodyspecial May 2012 #37

Yes, yes, yes! Habibi May 2012 #51

You are correct regarding the content of the article Taitertots May 2012 #80

Sorry, what? I missed that in the article.Who wouldn't feel hungry on a 500-calorie-per-day diet? Habibi May 2012 #38

They did this restrictive diet for two months nobodyspecial May 2012 #43

Right. Craziness. Nobody can feel good on a 500-cal-a-day diet. It's wrong and stupid and harmful. Habibi May 2012 #50

Your name is making me hungry! dixiegrrrrl May 2012 #42

And that's why I don't believe in diets. Habibi May 2012 #29

Reasonable portion sizes should leave you feeling content and not gaining weight 4th law of robotics May 2012 #167

Or not eridani May 2012 #181

So far you have argued that what you eat doesn't matter 4th law of robotics May 2012 #187

What doesn't matter is the weight loss results from eating less and exercising more eridani May 2012 #198

Let's take an extreme example 4th law of robotics May 2012 #215

Given the reality that human metabolic controls prefer fat to lean body weight-- eridani May 2012 #221

That is utterly false 4th law of robotics May 2012 #224

I got if from the course I taught in metabolic biochemistry eridani May 2012 #227

Post removed Post removed May 2012 #247

Energy input required for burning protein is lower that required for burning fat eridani May 2012 #274

This! Vehl May 2012 #18

That's very true eridani May 2012 #20

well Vehl May 2012 #28

The irony of your name cracks me up... trumad May 2012 #208

I've heard about this effect before. CaliforniaPeggy May 2012 #2

300 lb people who lose 50 lbs are still fat eridani May 2012 #5

"300 lb people who lose 50 lbs are still fat" Habibi May 2012 #12

Keeping on with what you are doing does not necessarily result in further weight loss eridani May 2012 #16

I understand. But rapid weight loss from a crash diet and Habibi May 2012 #40

Word that AnnieBW May 2012 #65

Losing 40 pounds is an exceptional accomplishment mythology May 2012 #205

That is just rude. YellowRubberDuckie May 2012 #46

I'm around me, and connected to the real world that fat people live in eridani May 2012 #153

Yeah. I know, I'm in that bracket. YellowRubberDuckie May 2012 #171

Since when does reporting how the rest of the world reacts to a 50 lb weight loss-- eridani May 2012 #177

You are doing it exactly right, Peggy! Habibi May 2012 #7

Portion control worked for me and I've kept the weight off for years. alfredo May 2012 #25

Good grief, what a load of bollocks this study is. Habibi May 2012 #3

People go for extreme diets when moderation doesn't work eridani May 2012 #4

It might be predictable, Habibi May 2012 #8

Because weight loss eventually flatlines eridani May 2012 #10

Possibly. But people can shake things up when they flatline, too. Habibi May 2012 #13

Or not. eridani May 2012 #17

Or, just continue to make excuses nobodyspecial May 2012 #39

But if the physical activity you enjoy and have time for does not result in significant weight loss- eridani May 2012 #67

I'm not talking about burning another 500 calories on the elliptical. Habibi May 2012 #44

I agree. Upping the activity level isn't normally doable or even helpful. noamnety May 2012 #133

What you are suggesting (though you probably don't mean to) eridani May 2012 #144

No, I'm not really suggesting that. noamnety May 2012 #155

What you are talking about is a mindfulness about training that many aren't motivated to share. eridani May 2012 #197

I don't do any athletic competitions. noamnety May 2012 #199

I just watched a not overweight friend have a stroke eridani May 2012 #201

Plantar fasciitis is related to being overweight, among other things. noamnety May 2012 #211

Since I fixed it without losing a single pound, the correlation is meaningless in the real world eridani May 2012 #222

It's possible the mayo clinic is wrong. noamnety May 2012 #241

Not wrong, just misguided eridani May 2012 #257

Losing weight Dorian Gray May 2012 #238

Not defeated--I have just made a choice to have a life eridani May 2012 #256

How you live is your choice Dorian Gray May 2012 #281

Don't confuse "judgement" with public abuse. eridani May 2012 #285

That means it's time to up the exercise Codeine May 2012 #87

Unless you decide that you would prefer to have a life eridani May 2012 #103

Exercise should be part of everybody's life. Codeine May 2012 #116

Yes, it should. But is is absolutely nutz to assume that it will lead to significant weight loss eridani May 2012 #118

Oh stuff that. Codeine May 2012 #120

You can make changes to your habits, but that may or may not result in significant weight loss eridani May 2012 #123

That doesn't make it right! YellowRubberDuckie May 2012 #47

Yup. That is an insanely small caloric number... truebrit71 May 2012 #168

That is why my motto is: It's not how much you eat; it is what you eat. JDPriestly May 2012 #9

When I tried out being a vegetarian, I discovered the discomfort eridani May 2012 #11

Yep. GoCubsGo May 2012 #14

I Dunno Vehl May 2012 #22

I found studying the diets of Asia and the Mideast taught me how to spice vegetables. alfredo May 2012 #27

:) Vehl May 2012 #30

I wasn't making any points about vegetarian diets. GoCubsGo May 2012 #53

ah, I misunderstood. Vehl May 2012 #59

Naw. GoCubsGo May 2012 #63

It's the same here obamanut2012 May 2012 #61

That is NOT a healthy vegetarian diet nobodyspecial May 2012 #26

Yes, I know. GoCubsGo May 2012 #52

What in the world do you think vegetarians eat? obamanut2012 May 2012 #60

Sigh. GoCubsGo May 2012 #62

Good thing there is an abundance of fat and protein in vegetarian food. Codeine May 2012 #85

Um...that's not what many vegetarians eat... the peoples summit May 2012 #306

That's because you need some protein and fat with every meal to feel full nobodyspecial May 2012 #23

+1 Vehl May 2012 #32

Thank you. nobodyspecial May 2012 #35

While I hate Chick Fil A... YellowRubberDuckie May 2012 #48

It's WHAT you eat. ananda May 2012 #21

Wrong nobodyspecial May 2012 #24

Yes. Although I'd argue with your numbers. Habibi May 2012 #56

So would I nobodyspecial May 2012 #57

I think it really depends on your current weight, your goal weight, Habibi May 2012 #75

Except that if you try to adjust caloric intake and energy output by force of will-- eridani May 2012 #69

Yup that's why people starve to death or real nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #93

I no longer agree with simple calories in/calories out. noamnety May 2012 #96

Great post! Habibi May 2012 #99

Can you share with us some of that reading material? truebrit71 May 2012 #170

No problem. noamnety May 2012 #172

Awesome thanks! from your earlier post I thought one of them was the 4-hour body.. truebrit71 May 2012 #212

In addition to what noamety has suggested, you might find "Fuck Calories" Habibi May 2012 #180

Thanks! I just downloaded it. noamnety May 2012 #218

It is both. YellowRubberDuckie May 2012 #49

Thank you! GoCubsGo May 2012 #54

Pot smoking & masturbating frequently to porn are two of the best things men can do for their health Warren DeMontague May 2012 #55

It's possible to avoid this effect varelse May 2012 #58

I had a friend who did that, but then sustained a serious knee injury eridani May 2012 #71

Have Her Join A Gym That Has A Pool HangOnKids May 2012 #73

She's on SSDI and can't afford dues eridani May 2012 #74

And there are still ways to exercise nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #94

You are talking to someone who has biked all over Europe a few times eridani May 2012 #104

Here s a medical fact nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #124

I'm realistic, and I represent 95% of fat people eridani May 2012 #141

More than 5% of people lose and maintain nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #145

If you cheat and have 86% of your subjects be male, of course you will get better results eridani May 2012 #148

As predicted nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #149

You failed to discuss my analysis of the actual results. eridani May 2012 #152

First of all. laundry_queen May 2012 #154

Hi, my name is 'Edweird' and I have dieted strictly out of vanity. Edweird May 2012 #206

My local YWCA has a low-income program Lydia Leftcoast May 2012 #182

Good idea n/t eridani May 2012 #228

Exercise can be adapted to a person's ability varelse May 2012 #81

That is truly inspiring! Habibi May 2012 #83

Spark People - it is free and has a food and fitness journal built in varelse May 2012 #131

Very good. Habibi May 2012 #136

I had not heard of myfitnesspal varelse May 2012 #159

I agree with them. Habibi May 2012 #161

Spark people Dorian Gray May 2012 #239

There are only 99 other people like her who did the same thing and didn't lose much weight eridani May 2012 #105

There are over 2 million users on the site I am using varelse May 2012 #130

And there are no statistics or any kind of scientific tracking, right? n/t eridani May 2012 #142

No, just a huge social network varelse May 2012 #158

Which has nothing to do with proving or disproving the statement that eridani May 2012 #178

To me, what is important is *why* weight loss is not maintained varelse May 2012 #210

That's good advice. noamnety May 2012 #216

Yes, the feedback loop is what makes this technique so valuable varelse May 2012 #244

That's just nonsense. I'm far too busy to bother with food journals, and also eridani May 2012 #223

Actually, food journaling doesn't have to take much time varelse May 2012 #249

That's true about it not taking much time. noamnety May 2012 #250

Only if you make weight loss the most important thing in your life eridani May 2012 #258

It isn't the most important thing in my life varelse May 2012 #297

Correction. For SOME people "it doesn't have to be in order to be achievable" eridani May 2012 #298

I don't think that the woman who started at 460 pounds varelse May 2012 #299

These people are part of a very, very small minority eridani May 2012 #300

Rich people gain wealth by accumulating it at the expense of others varelse May 2012 #301

And there is a difference between maintaining health and losing weight eridani May 2012 #302

if weight loss is not important to a person varelse May 2012 #303

And if you hadn't lost the weight, you could have become healthier anyway eridani May 2012 #304

That's not true. Feron May 2012 #305

An obese person who exercises more and eats a healthier diet will also reap a lot of health benefits eridani May 2012 #310

Those were starvation diets. They were doomed to failure. Codeine May 2012 #86

I've lost 21 pounds in 6 weeks. GaYellowDawg May 2012 #88

Good for you! And best of luck on your journey! Habibi May 2012 #89

Thanks, and I completely agree with you GaYellowDawg May 2012 #95

Good job ... but one more comment on salad dressing: Arugula Latte May 2012 #92

I'll throw in a couple more suggestions noamnety May 2012 #97

+1 I switched from Ranch dressing to the make your own variety a few years ago SlimJimmy May 2012 #98

I've been making my own salad dressing for 25 years eridani May 2012 #107

Definitely. Arugula Latte May 2012 #135

Well bully for you. Very few fat women start out with a habit of eating 4000 calories a day eridani May 2012 #106

My fiance has recently lost weight and it has meant enormous changes Codeine May 2012 #114

I have been dieting my whole life. RebelOne May 2012 #132

No salad dressing? Not even non fat vinaigrette? tawadi May 2012 #251

This message was self-deleted by its author Cali_Democrat May 2012 #108

The study is based on a 500 calorie/day diet? Cali_Democrat May 2012 #109

That's what obese people generally do when "sensible" measures eridani May 2012 #110

I think everyone's body is different Cali_Democrat May 2012 #128

And yet people will use this info to convince themselves Codeine May 2012 #117

The info isn't necessary to convince me of that. Reality is sufficient all by itself. eridani May 2012 #119

Good point. Habibi May 2012 #162

The thing about these long threads is that if they go on long enough-- eridani May 2012 #190

OK--Mitt Rmoney sock puppets should 'fess up right now. eridani May 2012 #111

People have shared ideas, tips, experiences and advice nobodyspecial May 2012 #127

I didn't take it that way. noamnety May 2012 #134

I understand what you are saying and know the frustration nobodyspecial May 2012 #137

Pointing out success that occurs only for a small percentage of people-- eridani May 2012 #143

please post this information every time there is a "weight loss thread" Scout May 2012 #163

Modest weight loss leaves fat people with exactly the same levels of public abuse as before. eridani May 2012 #139

Wrong, there is a direct correlation nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #146

Yes, as a matter of fact, all of those SNAPSHOT studies ARE wrong eridani May 2012 #150

You know what nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #164

You can address arguments, or you can appeal to authority eridani May 2012 #173

Social science is not well, science nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #179

I'm well aware of real science, given that I have a doctorate in biochemistry eridani May 2012 #191

You are absolutely right zappaman May 2012 #169

I guess that explains all those skinny athletic kids with type II diabetes 4th law of robotics May 2012 #188

You have everything exactly assbackwards eridani May 2012 #189

You seem to have access to data that is entirely contradictory 4th law of robotics May 2012 #213

There has been no increase in the number of people genetically predisposed toward diabetes eridani May 2012 #226

"You are born diabetic, period." 4th law of robotics May 2012 #248

False? So you read the articles at the links I provided? eridani May 2012 #259

Your first link was broken 4th law of robotics May 2012 #267

Type II diabetes is not "divorced from" obesity. The same genes cause both diabetes and obesity eridani May 2012 #276

The "gene" that causes type 2 diabetes? 4th law of robotics May 2012 #280

Ok, genes eridani May 2012 #283

30% of weight loss nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #138

Portion sizes are too large in the USA. Nye Bevan May 2012 #126

And that is a given nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #129

While biking in Europe, it was flat out impossible for us to finish meals eridani May 2012 #140

Couple of things LASlibinSC May 2012 #160

Yup, I wish this was an OP quite frankly nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #165

I agree--stress is a major stimulus for extra insulin production eridani May 2012 #174

A great example about why focusing on weight loss instead of health is a bad idea eridani May 2012 #234

I feel so bad for people with eating disorders. sofa king May 2012 #156

All dysfunctional behaviors are NOT addictions eridani May 2012 #175

Withdrawal symptoms from sugar addiction include: noamnety May 2012 #183

"Sugar" is not a synonym for "food" eridani May 2012 #192

It's not a synonym for food, no. noamnety May 2012 #200

So the solution to "addiction" is fat and protein? eridani May 2012 #229

I'm not entirely sure noamnety May 2012 #242

Yes, but they are similar, are they not? sofa king May 2012 #184

Compulsion and addiction are two very different things eridani May 2012 #195

"Inability to discontinue harmful behavior despite negative consequences." sofa king May 2012 #203

No. The reasons for the inability are completely different eridani May 2012 #219

So the description is the same, but "inability" is defined differently? sofa king May 2012 #240

So it doesn't matter to you whether cold symptoms are caused by viruses or bacteria? eridani May 2012 #260

Someone comes in dying of cold symptoms; what do you do? sofa king May 2012 #264

"Overeating" is diagnosed very differently from alcoholism eridani May 2012 #270

When you learn to not overeat you DO have a greater appetite CBGLuthier May 2012 #157

Yep, crash diets aren't the way to go 4th law of robotics May 2012 #166

It is nothing of the sort eridani May 2012 #176

Science tends to disagree with you on that 4th law of robotics May 2012 #186

That is absolute crap, period. But if human bodies were bomb calorimeters, you'd be right. eridani May 2012 #193

You're right, people are amazing machines, capable of greater than 100% efficiency 4th law of robotics May 2012 #214

The human body is constrained by physics. This does not mean that physics explains eridani May 2012 #230

Funny, you say what we eat is irrelevent 4th law of robotics May 2012 #246

Correct, people can't simply eat less and lose weight eridani May 2012 #261

I take it back, this isn't funny anymore 4th law of robotics May 2012 #266

Wrong. Reducing calorie intake and increasing activity shifts metabolic equilibrium-- eridani May 2012 #273

In other news, Food Is Fuel. flvegan May 2012 #185

I agree. Eating charcoal briquettes or drinking gasoline is a very bad idea n/t eridani May 2012 #194

Be that as it may, I love dieting. truthisfreedom May 2012 #196

Funny, but that's what a lot of anorexic women say a few years before they die n/t eridani May 2012 #202

Anorexics being people who take dieting to an extreme 4th law of robotics May 2012 #268

Losing 20 lbs does not make fat people thin eridani May 2012 #272

That last part is why people are arguing with you. noamnety May 2012 #275

When did I ever say "don't bother changing your diet'? eridani May 2012 #277

I thought the "don't bother" was implied noamnety May 2012 #279

From a psychologist I talked to who had treated many for eating disorders eridani May 2012 #282

Actually, it does. Prometheus Bound May 2012 #311

Do the math: 250lbs - 20 lbs is not "normal" eridani May 2012 #313

Intense physical exertion is the key not starvation. Working out also changes muscles and hormones Edweird May 2012 #207

Agree... trumad May 2012 #209

And if you don't have time to to enough of it to lose signifcant amounts of weight? eridani May 2012 #231

You have time. A high intensity workout does not take long. Edweird May 2012 #236

And it's an extremely bad idea for anyone over 65 eridani May 2012 #237

Then you might as well 'live it up' and just not worry about weight loss and just enjoy the ride... Edweird May 2012 #252

Indeed eridani May 2012 #262

Just thought I'd mention this other part of the puzzle. laundry_queen May 2012 #217

The thing about all these environmental factors is that we can't do anything about them-- eridani May 2012 #233

Maybe someone could start a thread where posters could be irrational about muscle tissue eridani May 2012 #235

Is there any popcorn left? SmileyRose May 2012 #253

I ate it all, sorry. Habibi May 2012 #254

Don't put butter on it. Arugula Latte May 2012 #255

They never talk about auto-immune disease--Hashimoto's thyroiditis, Manifestor_of_Light May 2012 #269

Why are you arguing with everyone on this thread? October May 2012 #286

For the same reason I argue with people who think gay people should stay in the closet eridani May 2012 #287

I'd suggest you start a thread about free will. randome May 2012 #288

Anyone can make the choice to declare permanent war on themselves eridani May 2012 #290

You do know that their is a group on DU for weight loss support, right? eridani May 2012 #289