General Discussion

Vattel

(9,289 posts)

152. I don't blame you

Reply to F4lconF16 (Reply #82)

Wed Apr 8, 2015, 11:28 PM

Apr 2015

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

299 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

In case people don't have a good understanding of what a supermax is, it is torture. [View all] F4lconF16 Apr 2015 OP

Well, yeah, but he's a bad guy. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #1

Did you miss the sarcasm emoticon? GCP Apr 2015 #3

I didn't think it was necessary. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #5

Nah....we'll just put them in the genpop....who gives a shit pipoman Apr 2015 #100

This sort of false dichotomy seems to be a standard talking point in favor of torture. Vattel Apr 2015 #126

Yeah...the theory vs. the reality of dealing with monsters, pipoman Apr 2015 #163

Good, ignore the point I just made, put words in my mouth, and then ridicule. Vattel Apr 2015 #165

Without knowledge of the subject it is easy to assume... pipoman Apr 2015 #170

It is a totally mystery how other countries manage it without resorting to torture. Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #178

tell it to the organized criminals when you invite them to live in your basement... pipoman Apr 2015 #181

It is a total mystery how other countries manage not to torture their prisoners Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #184

nice! Demonaut Apr 2015 #289

Better monitoring of communication would be preferable to torture. Vattel Apr 2015 #272

simplistic pipoman Apr 2015 #280

One obvious solution here is to not allow every prisoner Vattel Apr 2015 #287

Uh huh... pipoman Apr 2015 #288

So you don't see any advantage to preventing someone who might Vattel Apr 2015 #291

sure.. the way this is accomplished is by putting pipoman Apr 2015 #293

Thanks for the serious reply. Vattel Apr 2015 #295

Safety issues... pipi_k Apr 2015 #298

Well, I guess we agree that no solution is perfect. Vattel Apr 2015 #299

Hmmm...as far as I know pipi_k Apr 2015 #294

sorry, I guess I was unclear. This isn't addressing my point. See reply 295. Vattel Apr 2015 #296

I am against the death penalty on principle. Chemisse Apr 2015 #2

So what do you consider needs change yeoman6987 Apr 2015 #54

Their medical is quite lacking strategery blunder Apr 2015 #182

I didn't know that, I just thought it was a max security prison still_one Apr 2015 #4

It's designed to disorient inmates and sticks them in solitary for 23 hours a day. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #6

Thanks, I answered a poll on DU because of my ignoance still_one Apr 2015 #24

As did I n/t arcane1 Apr 2015 #27

We know how police treat innocent men on the outside, shooting in the back... NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #7

Supermax for Rummy, Cheney, Bush, Dimon, oh, so many more, too!!!! nt valerief Apr 2015 #8

Wow! The photos on the website... KansDem Apr 2015 #9

Does it link to the PNAC page? nt valerief Apr 2015 #16

!! KansDem Apr 2015 #28

Thank you. I'll be here all week. Remember to tip your server. valerief Apr 2015 #32

! DeSwiss Apr 2015 #191

If you are talking about the Boston Bomber� Raine1967 Apr 2015 #10

As I am as well. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #12

I'm guessing that a lot of people don't know what it is. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #18

I wish I could believe that. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #21

Me too. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #25

Prison rape comments are for people convicted of sex crimes. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #34

Ah, got it. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #36

You're on a website that will demand Guantanamo closed NuclearDem Apr 2015 #38

Some are more than advocating it. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #42

Thank you for all your comments on this subject marym625 Apr 2015 #260

I'm really sorry, F4lconF16 beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #145

I Believe It RobinA Apr 2015 #228

The link you used says that this is the only Federal Supermax. Raine1967 Apr 2015 #49

You're assertion that it's torture phil89 Apr 2015 #57

My assertion does not. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #62

This response actually say it is your assertion. Raine1967 Apr 2015 #141

Worse than having your legs blown off? seveneyes Apr 2015 #11

What he did does not give us license to torture. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #13

"I, as part of a humane society, will have no part in that." Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2015 #15

Well, as much as I can. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #17

I wonder how the prisons would operate if none/large numbers of us didn't pay taxes. Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2015 #20

Probably not well. But that's the same thing that we could ask about war F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #39

Problem is a lot of other things we need wouldn't operate, either. kcr Apr 2015 #206

Or maybe the reduced revenue will force a reexamination of national priorities. Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2015 #207

I am deterred by not only repercussions for bad acts, but the desire to make the future better seveneyes Apr 2015 #45

Where is misery required in the penal code? n/t Orsino Apr 2015 #236

Thank you. nt cwydro Apr 2015 #92

Or worse than seeing your child with a hole blown in his torso SickOfTheOnePct Apr 2015 #252

Ya know what? WillowTree Apr 2015 #14

This little punk sent hundreds of thousands to their deaths. valerief Apr 2015 #19

So put him in the same prison Kalidurga Apr 2015 #23

And..........What do you wish for him? WillowTree Apr 2015 #31

Supermax, as I said earlier! nt valerief Apr 2015 #33

George Bush's face has the look of someone who had a stroke. JimDandy Apr 2015 #56

Yeah... 2naSalit Apr 2015 #136

Good for you. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #22

I second that! Vattel Apr 2015 #146

Bye. By the way, where will you go? Telcontar Apr 2015 #150

The problem with people who say "I don't care what happens to {fill in the blank}" . . . markpkessinger Apr 2015 #88

Thank you for that intelligent, well reasoned response. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #119

Good points. LuvNewcastle Apr 2015 #123

There are tons of people already in supermax prisons gollygee Apr 2015 #26

Or it just might be because it's a high-profile case. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #29

Are you seriously suggesting that F4lconF16's op was motivated by race? beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #30

I doubt he was thinking of race gollygee Apr 2015 #35

Did you read the op? beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #37

Well, to be honest gollygee Apr 2015 #43

I hear you. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #44

Thank you for that framing. Raine1967 Apr 2015 #52

Sorry, but imo it's torture. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #53

So is this OP, IMO. Raine1967 Apr 2015 #58

So don't put him in a supermax prison. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #65

Who, aside from a DU poll, said that is where he might go? Raine1967 Apr 2015 #89

... cwydro Apr 2015 #94

Appreciated. nt Raine1967 Apr 2015 #128

I've been homeless I slept outside I walked around hours at night when it was cold JonLP24 Apr 2015 #225

Thats fine and dandy.... Historic NY Apr 2015 #179

That is exactly what gollygee was saying Doctor_J Apr 2015 #115

Well s/he said that it more about a previous discussion. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #121

I'm sorry you think that this is partially motivated by race. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #48

He apologized up the thread marym625 Apr 2015 #261

Thanks, I did see that. nt F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #266

What the OP doesn't understand is some people can't be around other people johnnysad Apr 2015 #51

Perfectly put. cwydro Apr 2015 #135

Who Are You RobinA Apr 2015 #232

Those are some pretty bad dudes in there johnnysad Apr 2015 #40

I don't care. Find another way. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #41

What's your idea then? johnnysad Apr 2015 #47

One can isolate prisoners physically while Vattel Apr 2015 #134

Sure give them all a lap top and internet access in their cells johnnysad Apr 2015 #173

Don't be silly. You know there are ways of allowing communication Vattel Apr 2015 #189

They write and receive mail johnnysad Apr 2015 #253

nvm Vattel Apr 2015 #268

Our entire system is irreparably broken, and our broken prison system is Zorra Apr 2015 #46

Bingo. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #50

That's fine by me Matrosov Apr 2015 #55

There is a difference F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #60

Hmmm...I would suggest pipi_k Apr 2015 #199

The Parents RobinA Apr 2015 #233

But we're not talking about pipi_k Apr 2015 #297

I would argue that Tsarnaev deserves sustainable life...nothing more brooklynite Apr 2015 #59

Humanity. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #64

Nice platitude...what does that mean? brooklynite Apr 2015 #68

Not being abused for the rest of his life. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #73

What are you defining as punishment? brooklynite Apr 2015 #80

You support torture. Vattel Apr 2015 #143

You forgot Art and Crafts. Raine1967 Apr 2015 #231

Be more specific johnnysad Apr 2015 #72

Indeed... brooklynite Apr 2015 #102

Provide for his physical security and health, including his mental health. Vattel Apr 2015 #151

Phone 4Q2u2 Apr 2015 #202

Maybe to not be deliberately subjected to psychological torture for the rest of his life. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #91

Maybe we could take a lesson from the Norwegians? Humane treatment even of the worst, and sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #269

You're going to trust that he'll be rehabilitated in 35 years? brooklynite Apr 2015 #273

In his case, I would be willing to bet on it. He was 19 years old. He has a lot of growing to morningfog Apr 2015 #282

Education, rehabilitation, human interaction, treatment, forgiveness, morningfog Apr 2015 #281

We suck! marym625 Apr 2015 #61

+1000 agree completely. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #63

I haven't seen what you have here marym625 Apr 2015 #70

I disagree that it is too late. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #75

I'm in a mood tonight marym625 Apr 2015 #79

I understand. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #82

Yeah. I saw. I'm sickened. marym625 Apr 2015 #87

I didn't have an ignore list before tonight. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #120

I don't blame you Vattel Apr 2015 #152

OK I just saw what you were talking about marym625 Apr 2015 #84

Thanks. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #85

This sadly, never gets old.. nadinbrzezinski Apr 2015 #76

It Was Always Thus RobinA Apr 2015 #235

Oh well. cwydro Apr 2015 #66

Yes, because Russian prisons are worse F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #67

What would you suggest be done with this horrible human? cwydro Apr 2015 #74

I am slowly becoming physically sickened by the responses this has recieved. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #78

Well, there you go. cwydro Apr 2015 #86

Jesus fucking Christ. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #95

No one is advocating torture. cwydro Apr 2015 #201

... NuclearDem Apr 2015 #203

Guess what? pipi_k Apr 2015 #209

Subjecting someone to 23 hours a day of sensory deprivation and lack of social contact NuclearDem Apr 2015 #211

I replied somewhere down below pipi_k Apr 2015 #215

"That is sensory deprivation." NuclearDem Apr 2015 #217

Well I would pipi_k Apr 2015 #226

Countless qualified psychiatrists say it is JonLP24 Apr 2015 #230

How are we a minority? marym625 Apr 2015 #264

Thank you for your brave and compassionate post RufusTFirefly Apr 2015 #254

You may be interested in this: F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #259

Thanks! I originally wrote a longer post there first... RufusTFirefly Apr 2015 #263

Yeah, please petition William769 if you feel like it. We got it unlocked earlier. Enough response... F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #265

Did you ever get an explanation from William regarding your petition to unlock? nm rhett o rick Apr 2015 #276

He should get his just punishment metted out by a intellegent society rhett o rick Apr 2015 #274

I will agree with you on that. cwydro Apr 2015 #275

Yes I believe the verdict was just. Don't you? nm rhett o rick Apr 2015 #277

I'll answer you. morningfog Apr 2015 #284

so the prisons are OK because they're here and not in Russia? marym625 Apr 2015 #71

You do not think this creature belongs in prison??? cwydro Apr 2015 #77

exactly where did I say that? marym625 Apr 2015 #81

So what do you think should happen to this criminal? cwydro Apr 2015 #90

You guys seriously need some new schtick. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #93

"You guys". Um cwydro Apr 2015 #97

Yes, it's that black and white. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #101

Funny how none of you apologists for this killer can answer the simple question. cwydro Apr 2015 #105

I've consistently said LWOP but not in Supermax. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #109

Oh my. cwydro Apr 2015 #112

Put him in a safe prison. Don't inflict severe mental harm on him. Vattel Apr 2015 #155

Of course there should be no mental harm to the poor child/ cwydro Apr 2015 #158

Even if you think he should be severely mentally harmed in prison, Vattel Apr 2015 #162

You are archaic. marym625 Apr 2015 #194

Lol. cwydro Apr 2015 #213

Jail, eom. Agschmid Apr 2015 #110

Thank you marym625 Apr 2015 #192

Again, where the fuck did I say that? marym625 Apr 2015 #96

I keep asking you, but you don't answer. cwydro Apr 2015 #99

I believe I responded to that. marym625 Apr 2015 #193

He's young , good looking johnnysad Apr 2015 #83

I suspect if he was a white American Christian we wouldn't be having it either brooklynite Apr 2015 #107

You might be right johnnysad Apr 2015 #108

So your BEST argument here..... DeSwiss Apr 2015 #270

I guess you'd volunteer to work in one of the country club establishments.... Historic NY Apr 2015 #69

He intentionally blew the guts out of a little boy...for one thing. alphafemale Apr 2015 #98

Therefore, torture! NuclearDem Apr 2015 #103

. Agschmid Apr 2015 #104

I hope the scumball ends up in this supermax. cwydro Apr 2015 #106

Good to know you support torture. Spider Jerusalem Apr 2015 #111

But you see, he's a bad guy. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #113

Nice try. cwydro Apr 2015 #114

"the people on this board who seem to support this man who killed innocents" beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #118

And yet you (and others) offer no specific alternative... brooklynite Apr 2015 #124

Well according to you, we wouldn't care if he was a white American christian. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #127

I made an assessment of the DU community that I think is reasonable brooklynite Apr 2015 #130

In this case lwp. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #138

Thank you brooklynite. cwydro Apr 2015 #131

As I recall, a number of people were complaining about "police states" during the search brooklynite Apr 2015 #137

Ah yes. cwydro Apr 2015 #142

The whole "cut off from society for the remainder of his natural life" bit seems to be enough Spider Jerusalem Apr 2015 #139

"I don't see the need for making that worse than it is, because I'm not a monster" beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #149

There's no rape by other inmates...because there's no interaction with other prisoners... brooklynite Apr 2015 #154

No... Spider Jerusalem Apr 2015 #156

I oppose the death penalty and support the sustaining of life... brooklynite Apr 2015 #160

Humans are, like it or not, social animals. Spider Jerusalem Apr 2015 #164

And social animals banish members who prove unable to live within the society. brooklynite Apr 2015 #166

Which is what PRISON is. Spider Jerusalem Apr 2015 #168

Treatment, counseling, education, rehabilitation, vocation, re-entry, etc, morningfog Apr 2015 #286

Life in prison with no possibility of parole is what I suggest they should do to him. Spider Jerusalem Apr 2015 #129

You oppose isolation...who should he interact with? brooklynite Apr 2015 #133

Obviously with other prisoners. Spider Jerusalem Apr 2015 #144

Please research why most of those inmates are put in supermax johnnysad Apr 2015 #171

We're not talking about prisoners who are persistent threats to other inmates, here. Spider Jerusalem Apr 2015 #175

That's the 1% in super max ( to use a term differently ) johnnysad Apr 2015 #177

At ADX Florence it's more like "at least 25%" Spider Jerusalem Apr 2015 #180

No you're wrong johnnysad Apr 2015 #185

Yes, I'm talking about supermax. Spider Jerusalem Apr 2015 #186

That won't work with most of these inmates johnnysad Apr 2015 #187

They know what it is and what the consequences are too. Justice Kennedy: Jefferson23 Apr 2015 #116

Don't know about "supermax prisons" in general pipoman Apr 2015 #117

If people truly understood, they would find a way to channel a need for vengeance in another way.. AuntPatsy Apr 2015 #122

I honestly don't know the right answer Flatpicker Apr 2015 #125

No, it's not the right thing pipoman Apr 2015 #169

You know what else is torture? Raine1967 Apr 2015 #132

Bingo.` cwydro Apr 2015 #147

Recently I have been hit with life changing events, my emotions, fears, beliefs have become altered AuntPatsy Apr 2015 #159

What if you get to see a HD video of the person in question pipoman Apr 2015 #174

My sister had to testify in a rape trial, one of many she had already testified in considering her AuntPatsy Apr 2015 #219

I am always reluctant to use the word "evil" in these parts pipoman Apr 2015 #220

Some people deserve it. PeteSelman Apr 2015 #140

in the federal system pipoman Apr 2015 #176

Oh well... pipi_k Apr 2015 #148

Yes. cwydro Apr 2015 #153

I just finished reading pipi_k Apr 2015 #161

Your post will fall on deaf ears johnnysad Apr 2015 #172

Yep... pipi_k Apr 2015 #197

IF it gets too bad, suicide is an option. Drahthaardogs Apr 2015 #267

Post removed Post removed Apr 2015 #157

It should be worse than hell. (nt) bigwillq Apr 2015 #167

I'm sorry, but how much juggling would be required to make life in prison NOT "torture"? Warren DeMontague Apr 2015 #183

You are wrong, and this is why. Major Hogwash Apr 2015 #188

So it's not torture because they're really bad people? NuclearDem Apr 2015 #195

They are there because they were uncontrollable in another prison treestar Apr 2015 #196

The UN has called for banning it. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #200

Solitary confinement is torture to the UN? treestar Apr 2015 #271

Jail isn't torture. Jail should be a miserable experience which deters people from wanting to go. RealityAdvocate Apr 2015 #190

Well, it should be, I'll give you that... pipi_k Apr 2015 #198

If people actually prefer prison to the real world, and choose to go there... RealityAdvocate Apr 2015 #248

Some people who commit heinous crimes... NaturalHigh Apr 2015 #204

Do you have any idea what 23 hours a day of sensory deprivation does to the mind? NuclearDem Apr 2015 #205

Maybe it is not the sensory deprivation 4Q2u2 Apr 2015 #208

It most certainly is not pipi_k Apr 2015 #212

Yes it is, and the Iranians like to call it white torture. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #214

So I had no idea pipi_k Apr 2015 #216

Oh, well I guess if it's not as bad as Iranian prisons NuclearDem Apr 2015 #218

I am asking pipi_k Apr 2015 #227

What sensory deprivation? brooklynite Apr 2015 #241

The United Nations has called American supermax prisons "inhumane and degrading" Xithras Apr 2015 #221

What about inmate who present a danger... NaturalHigh Apr 2015 #234

It's not an either/or thing Xithras Apr 2015 #239

Waterboarding is torture. I'm not sure I agree that isolation is. Many Supermax inmates, as your stevenleser Apr 2015 #210

They do this to detainees too JonLP24 Apr 2015 #223

And for folks who are a threat to other inmates, they should. Not sure with other folks. nt stevenleser Apr 2015 #229

Sense of Self 4Q2u2 Apr 2015 #238

I was disputing the claim that it wasn't torture JonLP24 Apr 2015 #242

I was turning the Spot light 4Q2u2 Apr 2015 #246

Most murderers don't go to Supermax or the SHU program JonLP24 Apr 2015 #247

Yep. cwydro Apr 2015 #224

I Read This Article RobinA Apr 2015 #222

So maybe it's time pipi_k Apr 2015 #237

That is my preferred method of dealing with pedophiles. stevenleser Apr 2015 #240

I thought life in prison was WORSE than the death penalty B2G Apr 2015 #243

And here I thought opposition to the DP should come from it being cruel and inhumane... NuclearDem Apr 2015 #244

Would you want to guard or be in the general poluation with these guys? nt B2G Apr 2015 #245

Your thread has some astonishing replies..isolation is understood even by Justice Kennedy who Jefferson23 Apr 2015 #249

Yes, I agree. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #250

+1 and bookmarked. Kudos, that OP is superb. Thank you. n/t Jefferson23 Apr 2015 #251

Many enjoy the Two Minute Hate, and your OP just diminishes their enjoyment. [n/t] Maedhros Apr 2015 #255

Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster Feron Apr 2015 #256

A really good article. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #257

I am advocating supermax prison time for any guilty person of a horrible crime. GOLGO 13 Apr 2015 #258

Maybe it would be nice if we still had places to just "exile" people. alphafemale Apr 2015 #262

Glad to see you posted again after getting censored in the other post. rhett o rick Apr 2015 #278

Sorry Rick. zappaman Apr 2015 #279

Really? Are you saying that you don't use the lame justification "disruptive meta" as a catch-all rhett o rick Apr 2015 #283

Sorry to disappoint you, Rick. zappaman Apr 2015 #285

I actually don't really care. You guys do what you gotta do. rhett o rick Apr 2015 #290

So then, punishment. n/t flvegan Apr 2015 #292