General Discussion

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)

297. But we're not talking about

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 11:28 AM

Apr 2015

something as extreme as being torn apart limb by limb or being hung, drawn, and quartered, or put inside a Brazen Bull here.

We're talking about putting a murderer into solitary confinement.

Torture? People who don't want him executed but don't have any trouble with him being in general population probably don't realize the horrible things that could happen to him there. I highly doubt he would survive multiple attacks, much less just one. After being beaten to a bloody pulp a couple of times, I would bet he'd be begging for solitary confinement.

So, what are we supposed to do?

People don't want the death penalty. People don't want Supermax prison. General prison would be a death sentence for him, and we certainly cannot let him go free.

Quite a few people have asked what is the alternative, but there's never an answer. Just the same old, "Supermax is torture and those who support it support torture".

What is the ultimate solution to this problem?

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In case people don't have a good understanding of what a supermax is, it is torture. [View all] F4lconF16 Apr 2015 OP

Well, yeah, but he's a bad guy. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #1

Did you miss the sarcasm emoticon? GCP Apr 2015 #3

I didn't think it was necessary. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #5

Nah....we'll just put them in the genpop....who gives a shit pipoman Apr 2015 #100

This sort of false dichotomy seems to be a standard talking point in favor of torture. Vattel Apr 2015 #126

Yeah...the theory vs. the reality of dealing with monsters, pipoman Apr 2015 #163

Good, ignore the point I just made, put words in my mouth, and then ridicule. Vattel Apr 2015 #165

Without knowledge of the subject it is easy to assume... pipoman Apr 2015 #170

It is a totally mystery how other countries manage it without resorting to torture. Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #178

tell it to the organized criminals when you invite them to live in your basement... pipoman Apr 2015 #181

It is a total mystery how other countries manage not to torture their prisoners Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #184

nice! Demonaut Apr 2015 #289

Better monitoring of communication would be preferable to torture. Vattel Apr 2015 #272

simplistic pipoman Apr 2015 #280

One obvious solution here is to not allow every prisoner Vattel Apr 2015 #287

Uh huh... pipoman Apr 2015 #288

So you don't see any advantage to preventing someone who might Vattel Apr 2015 #291

sure.. the way this is accomplished is by putting pipoman Apr 2015 #293

Thanks for the serious reply. Vattel Apr 2015 #295

Safety issues... pipi_k Apr 2015 #298

Well, I guess we agree that no solution is perfect. Vattel Apr 2015 #299

Hmmm...as far as I know pipi_k Apr 2015 #294

sorry, I guess I was unclear. This isn't addressing my point. See reply 295. Vattel Apr 2015 #296

I am against the death penalty on principle. Chemisse Apr 2015 #2

So what do you consider needs change yeoman6987 Apr 2015 #54

Their medical is quite lacking strategery blunder Apr 2015 #182

I didn't know that, I just thought it was a max security prison still_one Apr 2015 #4

It's designed to disorient inmates and sticks them in solitary for 23 hours a day. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #6

Thanks, I answered a poll on DU because of my ignoance still_one Apr 2015 #24

As did I n/t arcane1 Apr 2015 #27

We know how police treat innocent men on the outside, shooting in the back... NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #7

Supermax for Rummy, Cheney, Bush, Dimon, oh, so many more, too!!!! nt valerief Apr 2015 #8

Wow! The photos on the website... KansDem Apr 2015 #9

Does it link to the PNAC page? nt valerief Apr 2015 #16

!! KansDem Apr 2015 #28

Thank you. I'll be here all week. Remember to tip your server. valerief Apr 2015 #32

! DeSwiss Apr 2015 #191

If you are talking about the Boston Bomber� Raine1967 Apr 2015 #10

As I am as well. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #12

I'm guessing that a lot of people don't know what it is. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #18

I wish I could believe that. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #21

Me too. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #25

Prison rape comments are for people convicted of sex crimes. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #34

Ah, got it. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #36

You're on a website that will demand Guantanamo closed NuclearDem Apr 2015 #38

Some are more than advocating it. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #42

Thank you for all your comments on this subject marym625 Apr 2015 #260

I'm really sorry, F4lconF16 beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #145

I Believe It RobinA Apr 2015 #228

The link you used says that this is the only Federal Supermax. Raine1967 Apr 2015 #49

You're assertion that it's torture phil89 Apr 2015 #57

My assertion does not. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #62

This response actually say it is your assertion. Raine1967 Apr 2015 #141

Worse than having your legs blown off? seveneyes Apr 2015 #11

What he did does not give us license to torture. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #13

"I, as part of a humane society, will have no part in that." Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2015 #15

Well, as much as I can. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #17

I wonder how the prisons would operate if none/large numbers of us didn't pay taxes. Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2015 #20

Probably not well. But that's the same thing that we could ask about war F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #39

Problem is a lot of other things we need wouldn't operate, either. kcr Apr 2015 #206

Or maybe the reduced revenue will force a reexamination of national priorities. Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2015 #207

I am deterred by not only repercussions for bad acts, but the desire to make the future better seveneyes Apr 2015 #45

Where is misery required in the penal code? n/t Orsino Apr 2015 #236

Thank you. nt cwydro Apr 2015 #92

Or worse than seeing your child with a hole blown in his torso SickOfTheOnePct Apr 2015 #252

Ya know what? WillowTree Apr 2015 #14

This little punk sent hundreds of thousands to their deaths. valerief Apr 2015 #19

So put him in the same prison Kalidurga Apr 2015 #23

And..........What do you wish for him? WillowTree Apr 2015 #31

Supermax, as I said earlier! nt valerief Apr 2015 #33

George Bush's face has the look of someone who had a stroke. JimDandy Apr 2015 #56

Yeah... 2naSalit Apr 2015 #136

Good for you. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #22

I second that! Vattel Apr 2015 #146

Bye. By the way, where will you go? Telcontar Apr 2015 #150

The problem with people who say "I don't care what happens to {fill in the blank}" . . . markpkessinger Apr 2015 #88

Thank you for that intelligent, well reasoned response. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #119

Good points. LuvNewcastle Apr 2015 #123

There are tons of people already in supermax prisons gollygee Apr 2015 #26

Or it just might be because it's a high-profile case. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #29

Are you seriously suggesting that F4lconF16's op was motivated by race? beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #30

I doubt he was thinking of race gollygee Apr 2015 #35

Did you read the op? beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #37

Well, to be honest gollygee Apr 2015 #43

I hear you. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #44

Thank you for that framing. Raine1967 Apr 2015 #52

Sorry, but imo it's torture. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #53

So is this OP, IMO. Raine1967 Apr 2015 #58

So don't put him in a supermax prison. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #65

Who, aside from a DU poll, said that is where he might go? Raine1967 Apr 2015 #89

... cwydro Apr 2015 #94

Appreciated. nt Raine1967 Apr 2015 #128

I've been homeless I slept outside I walked around hours at night when it was cold JonLP24 Apr 2015 #225

Thats fine and dandy.... Historic NY Apr 2015 #179

That is exactly what gollygee was saying Doctor_J Apr 2015 #115

Well s/he said that it more about a previous discussion. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #121

I'm sorry you think that this is partially motivated by race. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #48

He apologized up the thread marym625 Apr 2015 #261

Thanks, I did see that. nt F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #266

What the OP doesn't understand is some people can't be around other people johnnysad Apr 2015 #51

Perfectly put. cwydro Apr 2015 #135

Who Are You RobinA Apr 2015 #232

Those are some pretty bad dudes in there johnnysad Apr 2015 #40

I don't care. Find another way. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #41

What's your idea then? johnnysad Apr 2015 #47

One can isolate prisoners physically while Vattel Apr 2015 #134

Sure give them all a lap top and internet access in their cells johnnysad Apr 2015 #173

Don't be silly. You know there are ways of allowing communication Vattel Apr 2015 #189

They write and receive mail johnnysad Apr 2015 #253

nvm Vattel Apr 2015 #268

Our entire system is irreparably broken, and our broken prison system is Zorra Apr 2015 #46

Bingo. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #50

That's fine by me Matrosov Apr 2015 #55

There is a difference F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #60

Hmmm...I would suggest pipi_k Apr 2015 #199

The Parents RobinA Apr 2015 #233

But we're not talking about pipi_k Apr 2015 #297

I would argue that Tsarnaev deserves sustainable life...nothing more brooklynite Apr 2015 #59

Humanity. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #64

Nice platitude...what does that mean? brooklynite Apr 2015 #68

Not being abused for the rest of his life. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #73

What are you defining as punishment? brooklynite Apr 2015 #80

You support torture. Vattel Apr 2015 #143

You forgot Art and Crafts. Raine1967 Apr 2015 #231

Be more specific johnnysad Apr 2015 #72

Indeed... brooklynite Apr 2015 #102

Provide for his physical security and health, including his mental health. Vattel Apr 2015 #151

Phone 4Q2u2 Apr 2015 #202

Maybe to not be deliberately subjected to psychological torture for the rest of his life. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #91

Maybe we could take a lesson from the Norwegians? Humane treatment even of the worst, and sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #269

You're going to trust that he'll be rehabilitated in 35 years? brooklynite Apr 2015 #273

In his case, I would be willing to bet on it. He was 19 years old. He has a lot of growing to morningfog Apr 2015 #282

Education, rehabilitation, human interaction, treatment, forgiveness, morningfog Apr 2015 #281

We suck! marym625 Apr 2015 #61

+1000 agree completely. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #63

I haven't seen what you have here marym625 Apr 2015 #70

I disagree that it is too late. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #75

I'm in a mood tonight marym625 Apr 2015 #79

I understand. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #82

Yeah. I saw. I'm sickened. marym625 Apr 2015 #87

I didn't have an ignore list before tonight. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #120

I don't blame you Vattel Apr 2015 #152

OK I just saw what you were talking about marym625 Apr 2015 #84

Thanks. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #85

This sadly, never gets old.. nadinbrzezinski Apr 2015 #76

It Was Always Thus RobinA Apr 2015 #235

Oh well. cwydro Apr 2015 #66

Yes, because Russian prisons are worse F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #67

What would you suggest be done with this horrible human? cwydro Apr 2015 #74

I am slowly becoming physically sickened by the responses this has recieved. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #78

Well, there you go. cwydro Apr 2015 #86

Jesus fucking Christ. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #95

No one is advocating torture. cwydro Apr 2015 #201

... NuclearDem Apr 2015 #203

Guess what? pipi_k Apr 2015 #209

Subjecting someone to 23 hours a day of sensory deprivation and lack of social contact NuclearDem Apr 2015 #211

I replied somewhere down below pipi_k Apr 2015 #215

"That is sensory deprivation." NuclearDem Apr 2015 #217

Well I would pipi_k Apr 2015 #226

Countless qualified psychiatrists say it is JonLP24 Apr 2015 #230

How are we a minority? marym625 Apr 2015 #264

Thank you for your brave and compassionate post RufusTFirefly Apr 2015 #254

You may be interested in this: F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #259

Thanks! I originally wrote a longer post there first... RufusTFirefly Apr 2015 #263

Yeah, please petition William769 if you feel like it. We got it unlocked earlier. Enough response... F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #265

Did you ever get an explanation from William regarding your petition to unlock? nm rhett o rick Apr 2015 #276

He should get his just punishment metted out by a intellegent society rhett o rick Apr 2015 #274

I will agree with you on that. cwydro Apr 2015 #275

Yes I believe the verdict was just. Don't you? nm rhett o rick Apr 2015 #277

I'll answer you. morningfog Apr 2015 #284

so the prisons are OK because they're here and not in Russia? marym625 Apr 2015 #71

You do not think this creature belongs in prison??? cwydro Apr 2015 #77

exactly where did I say that? marym625 Apr 2015 #81

So what do you think should happen to this criminal? cwydro Apr 2015 #90

You guys seriously need some new schtick. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #93

"You guys". Um cwydro Apr 2015 #97

Yes, it's that black and white. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #101

Funny how none of you apologists for this killer can answer the simple question. cwydro Apr 2015 #105

I've consistently said LWOP but not in Supermax. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #109

Oh my. cwydro Apr 2015 #112

Put him in a safe prison. Don't inflict severe mental harm on him. Vattel Apr 2015 #155

Of course there should be no mental harm to the poor child/ cwydro Apr 2015 #158

Even if you think he should be severely mentally harmed in prison, Vattel Apr 2015 #162

You are archaic. marym625 Apr 2015 #194

Lol. cwydro Apr 2015 #213

Jail, eom. Agschmid Apr 2015 #110

Thank you marym625 Apr 2015 #192

Again, where the fuck did I say that? marym625 Apr 2015 #96

I keep asking you, but you don't answer. cwydro Apr 2015 #99

I believe I responded to that. marym625 Apr 2015 #193

He's young , good looking johnnysad Apr 2015 #83

I suspect if he was a white American Christian we wouldn't be having it either brooklynite Apr 2015 #107

You might be right johnnysad Apr 2015 #108

So your BEST argument here..... DeSwiss Apr 2015 #270

I guess you'd volunteer to work in one of the country club establishments.... Historic NY Apr 2015 #69

He intentionally blew the guts out of a little boy...for one thing. alphafemale Apr 2015 #98

Therefore, torture! NuclearDem Apr 2015 #103

. Agschmid Apr 2015 #104

I hope the scumball ends up in this supermax. cwydro Apr 2015 #106

Good to know you support torture. Spider Jerusalem Apr 2015 #111

But you see, he's a bad guy. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #113

Nice try. cwydro Apr 2015 #114

"the people on this board who seem to support this man who killed innocents" beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #118

And yet you (and others) offer no specific alternative... brooklynite Apr 2015 #124

Well according to you, we wouldn't care if he was a white American christian. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #127

I made an assessment of the DU community that I think is reasonable brooklynite Apr 2015 #130

In this case lwp. beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #138

Thank you brooklynite. cwydro Apr 2015 #131

As I recall, a number of people were complaining about "police states" during the search brooklynite Apr 2015 #137

Ah yes. cwydro Apr 2015 #142

The whole "cut off from society for the remainder of his natural life" bit seems to be enough Spider Jerusalem Apr 2015 #139

"I don't see the need for making that worse than it is, because I'm not a monster" beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #149

There's no rape by other inmates...because there's no interaction with other prisoners... brooklynite Apr 2015 #154

No... Spider Jerusalem Apr 2015 #156

I oppose the death penalty and support the sustaining of life... brooklynite Apr 2015 #160

Humans are, like it or not, social animals. Spider Jerusalem Apr 2015 #164

And social animals banish members who prove unable to live within the society. brooklynite Apr 2015 #166

Which is what PRISON is. Spider Jerusalem Apr 2015 #168

Treatment, counseling, education, rehabilitation, vocation, re-entry, etc, morningfog Apr 2015 #286

Life in prison with no possibility of parole is what I suggest they should do to him. Spider Jerusalem Apr 2015 #129

You oppose isolation...who should he interact with? brooklynite Apr 2015 #133

Obviously with other prisoners. Spider Jerusalem Apr 2015 #144

Please research why most of those inmates are put in supermax johnnysad Apr 2015 #171

We're not talking about prisoners who are persistent threats to other inmates, here. Spider Jerusalem Apr 2015 #175

That's the 1% in super max ( to use a term differently ) johnnysad Apr 2015 #177

At ADX Florence it's more like "at least 25%" Spider Jerusalem Apr 2015 #180

No you're wrong johnnysad Apr 2015 #185

Yes, I'm talking about supermax. Spider Jerusalem Apr 2015 #186

That won't work with most of these inmates johnnysad Apr 2015 #187

They know what it is and what the consequences are too. Justice Kennedy: Jefferson23 Apr 2015 #116

Don't know about "supermax prisons" in general pipoman Apr 2015 #117

If people truly understood, they would find a way to channel a need for vengeance in another way.. AuntPatsy Apr 2015 #122

I honestly don't know the right answer Flatpicker Apr 2015 #125

No, it's not the right thing pipoman Apr 2015 #169

You know what else is torture? Raine1967 Apr 2015 #132

Bingo.` cwydro Apr 2015 #147

Recently I have been hit with life changing events, my emotions, fears, beliefs have become altered AuntPatsy Apr 2015 #159

What if you get to see a HD video of the person in question pipoman Apr 2015 #174

My sister had to testify in a rape trial, one of many she had already testified in considering her AuntPatsy Apr 2015 #219

I am always reluctant to use the word "evil" in these parts pipoman Apr 2015 #220

Some people deserve it. PeteSelman Apr 2015 #140

in the federal system pipoman Apr 2015 #176

Oh well... pipi_k Apr 2015 #148

Yes. cwydro Apr 2015 #153

I just finished reading pipi_k Apr 2015 #161

Your post will fall on deaf ears johnnysad Apr 2015 #172

Yep... pipi_k Apr 2015 #197

IF it gets too bad, suicide is an option. Drahthaardogs Apr 2015 #267

Post removed Post removed Apr 2015 #157

It should be worse than hell. (nt) bigwillq Apr 2015 #167

I'm sorry, but how much juggling would be required to make life in prison NOT "torture"? Warren DeMontague Apr 2015 #183

You are wrong, and this is why. Major Hogwash Apr 2015 #188

So it's not torture because they're really bad people? NuclearDem Apr 2015 #195

They are there because they were uncontrollable in another prison treestar Apr 2015 #196

The UN has called for banning it. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #200

Solitary confinement is torture to the UN? treestar Apr 2015 #271

Jail isn't torture. Jail should be a miserable experience which deters people from wanting to go. RealityAdvocate Apr 2015 #190

Well, it should be, I'll give you that... pipi_k Apr 2015 #198

If people actually prefer prison to the real world, and choose to go there... RealityAdvocate Apr 2015 #248

Some people who commit heinous crimes... NaturalHigh Apr 2015 #204

Do you have any idea what 23 hours a day of sensory deprivation does to the mind? NuclearDem Apr 2015 #205

Maybe it is not the sensory deprivation 4Q2u2 Apr 2015 #208

It most certainly is not pipi_k Apr 2015 #212

Yes it is, and the Iranians like to call it white torture. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #214

So I had no idea pipi_k Apr 2015 #216

Oh, well I guess if it's not as bad as Iranian prisons NuclearDem Apr 2015 #218

I am asking pipi_k Apr 2015 #227

What sensory deprivation? brooklynite Apr 2015 #241

The United Nations has called American supermax prisons "inhumane and degrading" Xithras Apr 2015 #221

What about inmate who present a danger... NaturalHigh Apr 2015 #234

It's not an either/or thing Xithras Apr 2015 #239

Waterboarding is torture. I'm not sure I agree that isolation is. Many Supermax inmates, as your stevenleser Apr 2015 #210

They do this to detainees too JonLP24 Apr 2015 #223

And for folks who are a threat to other inmates, they should. Not sure with other folks. nt stevenleser Apr 2015 #229

Sense of Self 4Q2u2 Apr 2015 #238

I was disputing the claim that it wasn't torture JonLP24 Apr 2015 #242

I was turning the Spot light 4Q2u2 Apr 2015 #246

Most murderers don't go to Supermax or the SHU program JonLP24 Apr 2015 #247

Yep. cwydro Apr 2015 #224

I Read This Article RobinA Apr 2015 #222

So maybe it's time pipi_k Apr 2015 #237

That is my preferred method of dealing with pedophiles. stevenleser Apr 2015 #240

I thought life in prison was WORSE than the death penalty B2G Apr 2015 #243

And here I thought opposition to the DP should come from it being cruel and inhumane... NuclearDem Apr 2015 #244

Would you want to guard or be in the general poluation with these guys? nt B2G Apr 2015 #245

Your thread has some astonishing replies..isolation is understood even by Justice Kennedy who Jefferson23 Apr 2015 #249

Yes, I agree. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #250

+1 and bookmarked. Kudos, that OP is superb. Thank you. n/t Jefferson23 Apr 2015 #251

Many enjoy the Two Minute Hate, and your OP just diminishes their enjoyment. [n/t] Maedhros Apr 2015 #255

Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster Feron Apr 2015 #256

A really good article. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #257

I am advocating supermax prison time for any guilty person of a horrible crime. GOLGO 13 Apr 2015 #258

Maybe it would be nice if we still had places to just "exile" people. alphafemale Apr 2015 #262

Glad to see you posted again after getting censored in the other post. rhett o rick Apr 2015 #278

Sorry Rick. zappaman Apr 2015 #279

Really? Are you saying that you don't use the lame justification "disruptive meta" as a catch-all rhett o rick Apr 2015 #283

Sorry to disappoint you, Rick. zappaman Apr 2015 #285

I actually don't really care. You guys do what you gotta do. rhett o rick Apr 2015 #290

So then, punishment. n/t flvegan Apr 2015 #292