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scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)

30. Or how about between Iranians and Somalis?

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 10:02 PM

Apr 2015

I can't believe anyone can seriously argue that Islamophobia is racism. A form of bigotry, sure, but bigotry is not synonymous with racism. Racism is just one form of bigotry. Homophobia is also a form of bigotry, but it's not racism.

Words have to actually mean something if they are to be of any use at all.

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Just to beat my head against a wall one more time, yes, bigotry against Islam is racism. [View all] jobycom Apr 2015 OP

Excellent! AuntPatsy Apr 2015 #1

I disagree with you but I won't flame you. ZombieHorde Apr 2015 #2

You can choose to believe something other than you do? jobycom Apr 2015 #9

absolutely. I was raised in "the church". A very conservative evangelical one. I used to "believe" PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #12

Could you change back? I mean, let's say Ted Cruz gets elected and makes us register jobycom Apr 2015 #27

Could I or you? Sure, were human. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #28

No, I couldn't. jobycom Apr 2015 #68

OK, got it. Green Bay Packers fans are a race, ergo Bears fans are bigots. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #82

Show me what I said that would lead to that conclusion. jobycom Apr 2015 #88

Sums it up well, heh. Desert805 Apr 2015 #129

Free will regarding religious belief is discussed in the Religion group from time to time. ZombieHorde Apr 2015 #13

That's my take as well... Rhythm Apr 2015 #79

Of course you could. Drahthaardogs Apr 2015 #20

I once knew a dedicated pro-Nazi guy in college. He was an asshole. Binkie The Clown Apr 2015 #37

This message was self-deleted by its author CJCRANE Apr 2015 #39

"couldn't change their belief without great psychological damage" snooper2 Apr 2015 #89

So in your mind all Muslims were veils and eat pork chops, but would rather not? jobycom Apr 2015 #96

freedom from all religion is a beautiful thing snooper2 Apr 2015 #103

You must drive a Dodge. nt jobycom Apr 2015 #106

2003 Dakota! Dodge it or Ram it Baby snooper2 Apr 2015 #111

nice try, those are just opinions from UN/EU paper pushers, and no more valuable than any other msongs Apr 2015 #3

"Paper pusher" is how you describe learned experts? jobycom Apr 2015 #6

The most populous Islamic country in the world is Indonesia. Are you saying that Islamaphobes are scarletwoman Apr 2015 #4

Agree 100% SickOfTheOnePct Apr 2015 #17

Came in here to post this. linuxman Apr 2015 #26

We agree, as usual. Blue_In_AK Apr 2015 #33

Yup! scarletwoman Apr 2015 #34

Thank you for this post - doing your part to make DU a bit less dumb. Pooka Fey Apr 2015 #63

I wish! Thank you, though. scarletwoman Apr 2015 #66

... Pooka Fey Apr 2015 #67

I am not, and didn't imply that in my post. I didn't even say anything that sounded like that. jobycom Apr 2015 #84

Maybe you should read it again. Desert805 Apr 2015 #130

I disagree. According to the federal government, Arab people are caucasian when filling out race. catbyte Apr 2015 #5

No, dumbcat Apr 2015 #7

Muslims are neither a race, nor an ethnic group. Spider Jerusalem Apr 2015 #8

Thank you. Exactly the point I was attempting to make in my post #4. scarletwoman Apr 2015 #18

Tell me what you think a race is, then. jobycom Apr 2015 #85

Race is a construct. Adrahil Apr 2015 #92

Sounds so simple when you say it. :) Desert805 Apr 2015 #131

I think the reason we're seeing such LuvNewcastle Apr 2015 #10

Very well...there are Negroid, Caucasoid, and Mongoloid Muslims... brooklynite Apr 2015 #16

It really depends on the criticism. LuvNewcastle Apr 2015 #21

Well said. I'm more worried about racism than race. jobycom Apr 2015 #107

Victim? What about victims of religious ideology? Women losing rights, LGBT fighting for them? PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #110

Agreed. And also agreed you're wasting your time. Desert805 Apr 2015 #132

From Freedom From Religion on a previous Maher Islam discussion PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #11

excellent post! m-lekktor Apr 2015 #23

See, that post demonstrates exactly why it is racism in all it's sickened ugliness. jobycom Apr 2015 #94

To compare RELIGION to sexual orientation is fucking disgusting. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #95

Yes, it would be. Which is why I wouldn't do so. jobycom Apr 2015 #98

Yes, you did. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #100

Oh God almighty. Show me where, and explain how. nt jobycom Apr 2015 #104

You don't know where phil89 Apr 2015 #114

I know I did not. And if you did, you'd have shown me. jobycom Apr 2015 #123

What is the ethnic link between Saudis and Indonesians? brooklynite Apr 2015 #14

Or how about between Iranians and Somalis? scarletwoman Apr 2015 #30

I think the bigger point of contention is defining "bigotry" in this discussion. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #32

My concern is really just to do with defending the meaning of words. scarletwoman Apr 2015 #35

Exactly! There are two kinds of people in the world. Binkie The Clown Apr 2015 #36

Or African Americans (a large subset that are Moslem) and Kazakhs? TransitJohn Apr 2015 #64

Why is it all the people who mount absurd defenses of religion always claim to be atheists? Bluenorthwest Apr 2015 #15

Is that a passive-aggressive ad hominem accusation? jobycom Apr 2015 #108

Religion, as with fairy tales, should never be taken seriously seveneyes Apr 2015 #19

I initially rec'd this, but took it back PowerToThePeople Apr 2015 #22

+1 leftofcool Apr 2015 #25

Islam is an ethnic group? I don't think so. leftofcool Apr 2015 #24

Islamaphobia is bigotry pure and simple. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #29

This would be fine if all Muslims were Arab or Asian, Blue_In_AK Apr 2015 #31

Great post! nt bananas Apr 2015 #38

Thanks! jobycom Apr 2015 #102

It's very easy to make a category error when talking about any race, group or culture CJCRANE Apr 2015 #40

If you convert to Islam, do you also change your race? Quantess Apr 2015 #41

No thanks. I know what racism is versus bigotry. (nt) Inkfreak Apr 2015 #42

and what about bigotry against Christians or Buddhists or Hindus? cali Apr 2015 #43

+1 B Calm Apr 2015 #44

more to the point, criticism of islam is not the same as "islamophobia" and is not in itself racist Warren Stupidity Apr 2015 #45

Probably, yes and no, I think. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2015 #50

Using Islamophobia to describe any criticism of Islam is as dishonest Warren Stupidity Apr 2015 #53

Yup. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #55

Perfectly said! I'm not a bigot for saying it's wrong to execute gay people. arcane1 Apr 2015 #58

Yes, that does imply that all catholics are also wrong. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2015 #71

No it doesn't. Huge numbers of catholics simply disagree with their church's official positions. nt. Warren Stupidity Apr 2015 #77

Even if it did, so what? Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #133

Yes, that does imply that all catholics are also wrong. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2015 #72

Which is why I said that in the OP. jobycom Apr 2015 #83

So is pointing that sharia law is an abomination "Islamic hatred"? Warren Stupidity Apr 2015 #119

And just so we are on the same page William769 Apr 2015 #46

Bigotry against anything is bigotry. Iggo Apr 2015 #47

I hate fucking nazis/ Warren Stupidity Apr 2015 #48

how many nazis have you had sex with? uppityperson Apr 2015 #61

Illinois Nazis especially. Iggo Apr 2015 #81

intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself seveneyes Apr 2015 #49

No, attacking someone's ideas, even bigotedly, is not racism. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2015 #51

Where would Muhammad Ali fit into this? arcane1 Apr 2015 #52

So let me get this straight, bigotry against Arab Christians is Islamophobia? Pooka Fey Apr 2015 #54

What? jobycom Apr 2015 #101

All religion is equally ridiculous RealityAdvocate Apr 2015 #56

How DARE you disrespect the FSM! Adrahil Apr 2015 #143

Islam is the dominant religion across all racial divides Warpy Apr 2015 #57

Religious animus is a form of bigotry, not racism. Both are bad, but not the same. leveymg Apr 2015 #59

If we are talking just a regional group of Muslims, maybe. Drunken Irishman Apr 2015 #60

The progressive defense of Islam is getting absurd Matrosov Apr 2015 #62

I've said damn near the same in the past here as well. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #65

Thank you. (no text) Quantess Apr 2015 #69

it's fucking INSANE. nt m-lekktor Apr 2015 #74

It's not liberal or progressive, it's just the stupid PC police. B Calm Apr 2015 #75

Thank you. romanic Apr 2015 #76

Tell me who is doing what you said in your post. jobycom Apr 2015 #87

Nobody here is saying that. Throd Apr 2015 #90

Nobody here says any of those things. People say Islam, the ideology, is violent and sexist PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #93

You just said what you said no one was saying in the same post. jobycom Apr 2015 #97

Idiotic? OK, let's play that fucking game, chief. This whole OP is fucking idiotic. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #99

Thank you. nt cwydro Apr 2015 #147

Agree!!! And thank you! n/t Coventina Apr 2015 #91

Agree totally, Matrosov. Arugula Latte Apr 2015 #115

Just want to join in the pile. graegoyle Apr 2015 #70

Imagine ... MrMickeysMom Apr 2015 #73

If you redefine "racism" as being about something else besides race... DetlefK Apr 2015 #78

I didn't redefine race. Those who think it is about skin color are redefining it. jobycom Apr 2015 #86

You're simply wrong. Shoulders of Giants Apr 2015 #80

That's simply racism. jobycom Apr 2015 #109

There are a lot of passages in the Koran commanding that Muslims kill infidels. Arugula Latte Apr 2015 #117

None of those verses command Muslims to kill infidels. Care to learn how language is manipulated? jobycom Apr 2015 #121

The Koran is supposed to be the word of God. Shoulders of Giants Apr 2015 #125

See post Shoulders of Giants Apr 2015 #124

And a longer response... jobycom Apr 2015 #112

Yes religion has kept their society from advancing. Shoulders of Giants Apr 2015 #128

I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart. Anne Frank K&R Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2015 #105

Perhaps not, but close enough in my book. Orsino Apr 2015 #113

So, by this logic, bigotry against Republicans is anti-white racism Arugula Latte Apr 2015 #116

Nope. You have a choice about your religion. You don't about your race. truebrit71 Apr 2015 #118

You can dislike a religion or even hate a religion without disliking/hating it's followers Marrah_G Apr 2015 #120

Yes, of course you can. As I said in the OP. But hatred of Muslims based on stereotypes of religion jobycom Apr 2015 #122

really well said. guillaumeb Apr 2015 #127

That makes absolutely no sense, if I went even against an even more hierarchical religion... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #134

I am not and do not accuse you personally of generalization here. guillaumeb Apr 2015 #138

Yes I do, particularly as hypocrites, many of them, such as Thomas Jefferson and George Washington.. Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #139

good for your consistency! guillaumeb Apr 2015 #140

First off, most people develop morality independent of their holy books, if they didn't, we would... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #141

I would include the word ethics as well as morality. guillaumeb Apr 2015 #142

True, I developed my ethics based on simple things like human rights and fairness... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #144

Interesting comments. guillaumeb Apr 2015 #148

Here's the poll... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #149

thank you. I will read it. guillaumeb Apr 2015 #151

Since everybody else is throwing in their 2 cents, why not... Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2015 #126

Neither race nor ethnicity LWolf Apr 2015 #135

Wouldn't "intersects with racism" be just as easy to say and more accurate? DirkGently Apr 2015 #136

The Quran is a book full of violence, excuses for violence, sexism, homophobia... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #137

And bigotry, even "religious" bigotry, against women is misogyny. n/t pnwmom Apr 2015 #145

Why the quotation marks? N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2015 #146

I do not love, relish nor respect people who use their religion as a club ProudToBeBlueInRhody Apr 2015 #150