General Discussion

Martin Eden

(15,638 posts)

155. The choice is between someone who has PROVEN to be UNFIT for office ...

Mon Apr 13, 2015, 05:35 PM

Apr 2015

... versus someone who may or may not be.

For example, you have a teenage daughter who will start dating boys. Would you rather have her date a boy with a record of physically abusing girls or someone who, as far as you can tell, is a good kid?

Getting back to the IWR vote, it was obvious by October 2002 that the supposed "grave and gathering threat" posed by Iraq was false propaganda. Claims of an alliance between Saddam & al Qaeda were pure BS, and the PNAC agenda was there for informed people to see.

Any US Senator who voted for the IWR:
a) Was ignorant of above
b) Was on board with the neocon agenda
c) Cast a vote based on the calculation that being a hawk was politically favorable

Take your pick, and make the case why that person has not forfeited my support. Remember to put that into the context of the consequences of this war.

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An Unabashedly Liberal Hillary Clinton [View all] Skinner Apr 2015 OP

There is so much more to being President than economic issues. MineralMan Apr 2015 #1

This is one video. I bet more are coming. Auggie Apr 2015 #4

Oh, yes. Many more. And each will be dissected MineralMan Apr 2015 #20

How about her voting for Bush's illegal war? Does that embarrass you? Dawgs Apr 2015 #7

That particular vote? No. Many Democrats I support MineralMan Apr 2015 #14

No one I know believed that WMD bs, yet she advocated for that war, not just voted it. merrily Apr 2015 #42

I opposed the Iraq war from the very beginning. MineralMan Apr 2015 #45

Looking ahead is good; so is looking back, otherwise nothing changes. mahannah Apr 2015 #58

Just a thought quakerboy Apr 2015 #186

I'm quite sure she will have to address that. MineralMan Apr 2015 #190

Extremely unlikely quakerboy Apr 2015 #196

It's actually neither, I think. DanTex Apr 2015 #191

You say neither, but then explain the second quakerboy Apr 2015 #197

Somewhere out there, there is a video of a Code Pink encounter about our invading Iraq. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #66

Is this it? I don't have sound on this computer so I don't know what they're saying arcane1 Apr 2015 #82

Yes. Hillary did not listen to the wisdom of the Code Pink women. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #104

I'll have to check it out later. Last week I rewatched her speech announcing her vote arcane1 Apr 2015 #111

It was a sickening example of brazen political expediency RufusTFirefly Apr 2015 #120

You are so right. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #169

Great post. And I'd love to see Warren run. RufusTFirefly Apr 2015 #180

Mr. Priestly, you have hit the nail directly on the head AikidoSoul Apr 2015 #187

Has she actually referred to her IWR vote as a "mistake"? Warren DeMontague Apr 2015 #165

Yes. But that's like a politician who dismisses something she did last year... RufusTFirefly Apr 2015 #172

It's not about what she does it is about what she says. zeemike Apr 2015 #26

DU is proof of that. merrily Apr 2015 #32

It is probably those here who are not affected by the actions. zeemike Apr 2015 #36

That's true of some here. Some are in desperate situations. merrily Apr 2015 #39

Huge mistake, but, do you know a republican who is running who would have voted NO and NoJusticeNoPeace Apr 2015 #52

No, but I know many Democrats that are better than Hillary on that vote, and.. Dawgs Apr 2015 #55

Like who, who actually voted? NoJusticeNoPeace Apr 2015 #56

There are some that weren't in the Senate that I support. Dawgs Apr 2015 #92

I just heard a story about Hillary making me an even bigger supporter now NoJusticeNoPeace Apr 2015 #138

Not surprised. n/t Dawgs Apr 2015 #142

and it was what please? irisblue Apr 2015 #174

here NoJusticeNoPeace Apr 2015 #181

How about moving on? Can you manage that? vlyons Apr 2015 #59

Are you seriously telling me that I can't use her record to make a judgement? Dawgs Apr 2015 #63

so basically, you can't move on vlyons Apr 2015 #114

That one "mistake" cost our nation untold billions of dollars and thousands of lives derby378 Apr 2015 #168

But is punishing her for that 14 years later treestar Apr 2015 #184

This has nothing to do with "punishing" Hillary Martin Eden Apr 2015 #216

well if a person makes one mistake treestar Apr 2015 #221

Utterly false equivalency Martin Eden Apr 2015 #226

It's a question of proof of judgment. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #74

Tell that to the troops! arcane1 Apr 2015 #117

amen demigoddess Apr 2015 #158

Let's look at some of these things then. rpannier Apr 2015 #195

Anyone who questions Hillary Clinton's policy choices is a troll? davidpdx Apr 2015 #210

They believe that. Chan790 Apr 2015 #224

Yeah, well that kind of behavior should not be allowed on DU davidpdx Apr 2015 #228

I don't disagree. n/t Chan790 Apr 2015 #230

Can I join? lark Apr 2015 #60

Hillary forever lost my vote with that ... Martin Eden Apr 2015 #62

I understand the sentiment, but the question becomes, how do you know that a new candidate okaawhatever Apr 2015 #139

The choice is between someone who has PROVEN to be UNFIT for office ... Martin Eden Apr 2015 #155

Next year's election campaign will be about more than a single issue (14 years ago) or... George II Apr 2015 #64

Ask all the dead and wounded if that "one vote" 14 years ago should be forgotten. Dawgs Apr 2015 #67

NOBODY said it should be forgotten! But to base an opinion of a candidate on one single... George II Apr 2015 #75

OK. I also blame her for her support of TPP, silence on Keystone, and friendliness with Wall Street. Dawgs Apr 2015 #89

And unless she apologies for and says she's changed her stance on this issue... cascadiance Apr 2015 #126

Bernie, Feingold and others were smart enough to vote and fight against it. Dawgs Apr 2015 #91

Are you including FDR and HST in that? Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #136

Yep. It was the one fault I could find with FDR. Dawgs Apr 2015 #143

So, even when your country is attacked, no war should be declared? Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #154

Yeah, we really should have overlooked that little thing like the attack on Pearl Harbor. George II Apr 2015 #175

So he lost your vote forever then treestar Apr 2015 #185

TPP, Wall Street, oh there are lots of issues... Katashi_itto Apr 2015 #98

It was the biggest foreign policy clusterfuck in half a century. Warren DeMontague Apr 2015 #166

It was a bad decision, but she has acknowledged that. I can accept that. n/t Adrahil Apr 2015 #202

I would have liked to have heard/seen more of HRC's liberalism prior to this erronis Apr 2015 #23

Oh, she won't be quiet now. MineralMan Apr 2015 #25

I totally agree with your approach. Much to listen to and analyze. [eom] erronis Apr 2015 #65

Actually, I think economic issues have been getting too little attention by dems whathehell Apr 2015 #78

Thanks, Sid. nt msanthrope Apr 2015 #2

LOL. n/t FSogol Apr 2015 #17

!!!! BumRushDaShow Apr 2015 #50

... William769 Apr 2015 #53

hahahah JI7 Apr 2015 #146

I like this Hillary better and although... TreasonousBastard Apr 2015 #3

11th liberal recommendation! n/t freshwest Apr 2015 #5

I believe Clinton will position herself as continuing on and building upon the legacy of the Peace President. Fred Sanders Apr 2015 #6

I get the very same impression....a stark contrast to the RW warmongers n/t Sheepshank Apr 2015 #34

K&R Bobbie Jo Apr 2015 #8

socially liberal is, as I see it, one leg of a three legged platform cali Apr 2015 #9

We're winning the cultural war on some fronts (gay rights) but losing on others (women's rights) Arugula Latte Apr 2015 #30

And don't forget: education. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #79

It's also the way that is most different than the republicans arcane1 Apr 2015 #87

This. n/t lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #103

This LittleBlue Apr 2015 #140

K&R! hrmjustin Apr 2015 #10

That logo is rather pretty which in my eyes means moving forward Iliyah Apr 2015 #28

Watch it without audio and look only at the images. This is a video of the Democratic Party. Agnosticsherbet Apr 2015 #11

As she begins her campaign trail more and more of the issues she is an advocate will Thinkingabout Apr 2015 #12

I did not think the announcement video was at all effective. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #83

Are you saying you did not see anything is the video? Thinkingabout Apr 2015 #86

Branding works best when the association is emotional vs logical arcane1 Apr 2015 #94

I agree whatchamacallit Apr 2015 #101

I lived in Hollywood (De longpre and Highland) and thought the video rocks... DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #194

If one calls Los Angeles their home, they are not impressed with "I lived in Hollywood" U4ikLefty Apr 2015 #229

I was rebutting the proposition that living in L A makes one a video critic DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #231

So you lied instead of making your point directly? U4ikLefty Apr 2015 #232

Lied about what... DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #233

nice story brah U4ikLefty Apr 2015 #234

Are you calling me a liar, brah? DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #235

That's along bus ride from Asstucky. U4ikLefty Apr 2015 #236

So you disrespect strangers, make false allegations and hide behind a peace sign. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #237

Welcome to L.A....you've gotta visit some day. U4ikLefty Apr 2015 #238

I have been here since 3/12 DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #239

OMG, here that long? Hey if you say so... U4ikLefty Apr 2015 #240

You started our discussion by calling me a liar... It's all here for anybody to see... DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #241

I wouldn't do that...you've made this thread waaay too fun. U4ikLefty Apr 2015 #242

What comedic challenge ? DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #243

YASSS! KNR! JaneyVee Apr 2015 #13

Could be another FDR. Basic LA Apr 2015 #15

FDR Geronimoe Apr 2015 #24

You will know them by their works. zeemike Apr 2015 #31

are you being "shat on" right now? VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #72

No I am not a victim. zeemike Apr 2015 #88

a victim of what? VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #108

Of being shat on by the profoundly wealthy and the political insiders. zeemike Apr 2015 #113

and who is doing this "shatting" among Democrats? VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #160

Why keep asking questions you are not going to like the answers to? zeemike Apr 2015 #167

Thank you. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #84

Facts, just the facts, please. Thinkingabout Apr 2015 #90

I've heard that one before. I didn't like the punchline very much. n/t lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #106

jesus h Christ Doctor_J Apr 2015 #207

Hillary needs to preemptively take on the RW smearing of the President. He's not running and kelliekat44 Apr 2015 #16

This LiberalLovinLug Apr 2015 #73

The 2 things for me GusBob Apr 2015 #18

These are my concerns, as well. A strong Democratic turnout will turn the Senate back to BlueCaliDem Apr 2015 #35

I echo a poster's comment in your other thread BainsBane Apr 2015 #19

Hope and Change 2.0. jalan48 Apr 2015 #21

sounds like she's doing exactly what both Barack and W. did: paulkienitz Apr 2015 #22

She's echoed Warren a number of times. merrily Apr 2015 #33

K & R. (and welcome back, Skinner.) n/t FSogol Apr 2015 #27

We Liberals await her (updated) position on the TPP MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #29

And why did she vote for the Iraq War Resolution? RufusTFirefly Apr 2015 #37

And you will certainly hear them. MineralMan Apr 2015 #38

Silly Manny! Still going on about the pesky little trade thingie. RufusTFirefly Apr 2015 #43

I'm sorry. MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #44

. Rex Apr 2015 #123

How many liberals are aligned with the points of view whatchamacallit Apr 2015 #69

Weak. I was banned at FR in 2006 for "anti-Freeping" MineralMan Apr 2015 #97

Am I reading your response correctly? whatchamacallit Apr 2015 #102

I've edited the title. MineralMan Apr 2015 #105

. Rex Apr 2015 #124

I was banned from FR after just one post! MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #137

I'm not sure how that's relevant. MineralMan Apr 2015 #189

I didn't... but since you're so concerned about it MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #192

Please proceed as you choose, then. MineralMan Apr 2015 #193

He was a member at that dump? BeanMusical Apr 2015 #208

Yes he is...a little too free with the We LiberalLovinLug Apr 2015 #95

Well done. LuvNewcastle Apr 2015 #214

+ a million. Exceptionally well said Number23 Apr 2015 #157

Does "unabashedly liberal" refer to a philosophical position or is it merely image? guillaumeb Apr 2015 #40

The question is which version of her is the real one? Fearless Apr 2015 #41

She needs a challenge from real liberals SHRED Apr 2015 #46

Her rhetoric suggests that she expects one. n/t lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #109

I think Sanders will, but there is no way he'll get the money davidpdx Apr 2015 #211

Gotta love her libodem Apr 2015 #47

She is being politically wise and savy. nevergiveup Apr 2015 #49

she belongs to you maybe? Not to me. Her record stinks. dolphinsandtuna Apr 2015 #71

LOL! Bobbie Jo Apr 2015 #85

It's striking that the article treats her as a complete political weather vane. Jim Lane Apr 2015 #48

That's the Clinton MO. LuvNewcastle Apr 2015 #215

Thank for this Skinner. William769 Apr 2015 #51

I imagine you'd say I have none whatchamacallit Apr 2015 #54

Her rhetoric may be liberal, her actions? Not so much. [n/t] Maedhros Apr 2015 #57

When she was in the Senate she had one of the most liberal records there. pnwmom Apr 2015 #61

Liberal? Hillary? Is that a sick joke? dolphinsandtuna Apr 2015 #68

Her advisers may be thinking that she needs to run to the left in order to try to totodeinhere Apr 2015 #70

She's an unabashed hawk on foreign policy. AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #76

Also, she co-sponsored (twice!) legislation that would've criminalized flag-burning. RufusTFirefly Apr 2015 #81

FWIW, the story was that she was blocking a Constitutional amendment doing the same thing. merrily Apr 2015 #107

You weren't alone in not buying it RufusTFirefly Apr 2015 #112

Honestly, I did not know what anyone said about it. It just made no sense to me. merrily Apr 2015 #115

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #110

...really? Warren DeMontague Apr 2015 #164

I'm afraid so. Some have explained it away as three-dimensional chess... RufusTFirefly Apr 2015 #170

Interesting. I must have forgotten that chapter. Warren DeMontague Apr 2015 #171

Yup. It demonstrates a profound misunderstanding of the First Amendment RufusTFirefly Apr 2015 #176

Fascinating 99Forever Apr 2015 #77

Hillary still has some 'splainin' to do. Ford_Prefect Apr 2015 #80

I don't think the country's all that more liberal. I just think the Democrats are Bucky Apr 2015 #93

Roberto Micheletti was Liberal too! MisterP Apr 2015 #96

THIS: "America, as seen by Hillary and the people advising her, is a lot further left than it was calimary Apr 2015 #99

Heretic! hrmjustin Apr 2015 #100

(snicker) BKH70041 Apr 2015 #116

I find her very likable. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #118

I just find it interesting after 23 years they're still having to define who she is. BKH70041 Apr 2015 #119

Yet she is doing very well in thd polls for the nomination and general. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #121

Maybe the public is responding based mainly on recognition and doesn't really give a damn yet RufusTFirefly Apr 2015 #128

Or maybe they trust her to do the job. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #129

"Isn't it pretty to think so." RufusTFirefly Apr 2015 #131

Because it is so. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #132

For all his many flaws, her husband seemed to have a genuine ability to connect with people RufusTFirefly Apr 2015 #125

At least you get it. BKH70041 Apr 2015 #198

"after 23 years they're still having to define who she is" George II Apr 2015 #148

Desirable? turn off? Well isn't that special..... bettyellen Apr 2015 #182

so...she's going to stop trying to privatize public education, stop Wall St. bailouts and slaps on yurbud Apr 2015 #122

Quit pestering her with minutiae, yurbud. The talking point is that she's a liberal. RufusTFirefly Apr 2015 #127

liberal is what Democrats crave... yurbud Apr 2015 #133

All of it is kabuki theater. Maedhros Apr 2015 #156

With some of the responses here, before long someone will come out against her because.... George II Apr 2015 #130

You forgot the sarcasm smiley RufusTFirefly Apr 2015 #135

What was the text of that amendment and the context in which the vote was taken? George II Apr 2015 #141

Are you asking me to do your research for you? RufusTFirefly Apr 2015 #145

No, but if one doesn't know the background behind a Senator's vote, how can one.... George II Apr 2015 #147

I just did a little research. As I surmised, it turned out to be a relatively benign vote. George II Apr 2015 #144

U.S. is a major financer of cluster bombs RufusTFirefly Apr 2015 #149

Was a ban on financing cluster bombs in the amendment? Again, the text and context would be useful. George II Apr 2015 #150

Frankly, I don't need additional reasons to oppose a Clinton candidacy RufusTFirefly Apr 2015 #152

One last time, without knowing what was in that amendment (was anything else attached to it?).... George II Apr 2015 #162

I will need more than one video. She said all of the good things but I would rather totodeinhere Apr 2015 #134

Advertising. Hillary Clinton is not a liberal. Marr Apr 2015 #151

and that seems to suggest Hillary is supportive of the policies the Obama administration started still_one Apr 2015 #153

I'm not sure if putting a some gay couples in her video indicates a sea change on the issues. Warren DeMontague Apr 2015 #159

You porpoisely made her leaning to the left in that pic...which from her POV means Rex Apr 2015 #161

lol! Cha Apr 2015 #213

She knows she has a long way to go to shore up the Liberal Left Ruby the Liberal Apr 2015 #163

Hillary, unabashedly liberal- inevitable. Alkene Apr 2015 #173

:) raindaddy Apr 2015 #225

! whatchamacallit Apr 2015 #227

I will never forgive her support for the IWR and invasion of Iraq.... mike_c Apr 2015 #177

They all say anything to get elected, then go back on every single promise. alarimer Apr 2015 #178

If Hillary Clinton is a liberal MissDeeds Apr 2015 #179

Hey. If Obama's a socialist, it could be! n/t RufusTFirefly Apr 2015 #200

Thank you. RiverLover Apr 2015 #217

Unconvinced rpannier Apr 2015 #183

k&r... spanone Apr 2015 #188

damn. it's like we already had the primary. nt m-lekktor Apr 2015 #199

Exactly MissDeeds Apr 2015 #218

Her supporters are seriously "aggresive". m-lekktor Apr 2015 #220

HRC - The Manchurian Wall Street Candidate - The 99% Money Will Never Be Safe Again cantbeserious Apr 2015 #201

With 574 days to go until Election 2016 Iwillnevergiveup Apr 2015 #203

I guess that the Liberal of 2015 RoccoR5955 Apr 2015 #204

Campaign promises? Pfft. blkmusclmachine Apr 2015 #205

some of the mainstream rags are giving the onion a run for its money these days Doctor_J Apr 2015 #206

+1 BeanMusical Apr 2015 #209

K&R McCamy Taylor Apr 2015 #212

It's a good try Skinner but for those with closed ears they won't hear it LynneSin Apr 2015 #219

Encouraging, But.... colsohlibgal Apr 2015 #222

The 1% doesn't care about gay marriage, women's right to choose ,ect, ect, ect raindaddy Apr 2015 #223