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Humanist_Activist

(7,670 posts)

141. First off, most people develop morality independent of their holy books, if they didn't, we would...

Mon Apr 13, 2015, 09:34 PM

Apr 2015

be a society that still holds onto slaves, keeps our wives as property, beats our children to within an inch of their life, etc.

What most religious people do is precisely what you say, they interpret their holy books to be acceptable for their morality. What many of them refuse to consider is that their interpretation is just as correct as the one from someone who comes to different conclusions. The lack of consistency in the Bible and Quran, for example, leads to such conflicts. Both books justify some of the worst shit imaginable, horrific torture, killing of everyone, including infants, due to a variety of offenses, from violating Sabbaths to apostasy. But they also contain stuff like "Treat others like you want to be treated" and "love thy neighbor", so there's a little bit of everything for everyone.

This wouldn't be an issue, normally, if people didn't treat these books with reverence, if they were treated like Homer's Epics, or other ancient writings, I wouldn't even bother criticizing the contents of either book, but believers, they claim their morality came from these books, I've never seen them demonstrate how with any consistency.

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Just to beat my head against a wall one more time, yes, bigotry against Islam is racism. [View all] jobycom Apr 2015 OP

Excellent! AuntPatsy Apr 2015 #1

I disagree with you but I won't flame you. ZombieHorde Apr 2015 #2

You can choose to believe something other than you do? jobycom Apr 2015 #9

absolutely. I was raised in "the church". A very conservative evangelical one. I used to "believe" PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #12

Could you change back? I mean, let's say Ted Cruz gets elected and makes us register jobycom Apr 2015 #27

Could I or you? Sure, were human. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #28

No, I couldn't. jobycom Apr 2015 #68

OK, got it. Green Bay Packers fans are a race, ergo Bears fans are bigots. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #82

Show me what I said that would lead to that conclusion. jobycom Apr 2015 #88

Sums it up well, heh. Desert805 Apr 2015 #129

Free will regarding religious belief is discussed in the Religion group from time to time. ZombieHorde Apr 2015 #13

That's my take as well... Rhythm Apr 2015 #79

Of course you could. Drahthaardogs Apr 2015 #20

I once knew a dedicated pro-Nazi guy in college. He was an asshole. Binkie The Clown Apr 2015 #37

This message was self-deleted by its author CJCRANE Apr 2015 #39

"couldn't change their belief without great psychological damage" snooper2 Apr 2015 #89

So in your mind all Muslims were veils and eat pork chops, but would rather not? jobycom Apr 2015 #96

freedom from all religion is a beautiful thing snooper2 Apr 2015 #103

You must drive a Dodge. nt jobycom Apr 2015 #106

2003 Dakota! Dodge it or Ram it Baby snooper2 Apr 2015 #111

nice try, those are just opinions from UN/EU paper pushers, and no more valuable than any other msongs Apr 2015 #3

"Paper pusher" is how you describe learned experts? jobycom Apr 2015 #6

The most populous Islamic country in the world is Indonesia. Are you saying that Islamaphobes are scarletwoman Apr 2015 #4

Agree 100% SickOfTheOnePct Apr 2015 #17

Came in here to post this. linuxman Apr 2015 #26

We agree, as usual. Blue_In_AK Apr 2015 #33

Yup! scarletwoman Apr 2015 #34

Thank you for this post - doing your part to make DU a bit less dumb. Pooka Fey Apr 2015 #63

I wish! Thank you, though. scarletwoman Apr 2015 #66

... Pooka Fey Apr 2015 #67

I am not, and didn't imply that in my post. I didn't even say anything that sounded like that. jobycom Apr 2015 #84

Maybe you should read it again. Desert805 Apr 2015 #130

I disagree. According to the federal government, Arab people are caucasian when filling out race. catbyte Apr 2015 #5

No, dumbcat Apr 2015 #7

Muslims are neither a race, nor an ethnic group. Spider Jerusalem Apr 2015 #8

Thank you. Exactly the point I was attempting to make in my post #4. scarletwoman Apr 2015 #18

Tell me what you think a race is, then. jobycom Apr 2015 #85

Race is a construct. Adrahil Apr 2015 #92

Sounds so simple when you say it. :) Desert805 Apr 2015 #131

I think the reason we're seeing such LuvNewcastle Apr 2015 #10

Very well...there are Negroid, Caucasoid, and Mongoloid Muslims... brooklynite Apr 2015 #16

It really depends on the criticism. LuvNewcastle Apr 2015 #21

Well said. I'm more worried about racism than race. jobycom Apr 2015 #107

Victim? What about victims of religious ideology? Women losing rights, LGBT fighting for them? PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #110

Agreed. And also agreed you're wasting your time. Desert805 Apr 2015 #132

From Freedom From Religion on a previous Maher Islam discussion PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #11

excellent post! m-lekktor Apr 2015 #23

See, that post demonstrates exactly why it is racism in all it's sickened ugliness. jobycom Apr 2015 #94

To compare RELIGION to sexual orientation is fucking disgusting. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #95

Yes, it would be. Which is why I wouldn't do so. jobycom Apr 2015 #98

Yes, you did. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #100

Oh God almighty. Show me where, and explain how. nt jobycom Apr 2015 #104

You don't know where phil89 Apr 2015 #114

I know I did not. And if you did, you'd have shown me. jobycom Apr 2015 #123

What is the ethnic link between Saudis and Indonesians? brooklynite Apr 2015 #14

Or how about between Iranians and Somalis? scarletwoman Apr 2015 #30

I think the bigger point of contention is defining "bigotry" in this discussion. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #32

My concern is really just to do with defending the meaning of words. scarletwoman Apr 2015 #35

Exactly! There are two kinds of people in the world. Binkie The Clown Apr 2015 #36

Or African Americans (a large subset that are Moslem) and Kazakhs? TransitJohn Apr 2015 #64

Why is it all the people who mount absurd defenses of religion always claim to be atheists? Bluenorthwest Apr 2015 #15

Is that a passive-aggressive ad hominem accusation? jobycom Apr 2015 #108

Religion, as with fairy tales, should never be taken seriously seveneyes Apr 2015 #19

I initially rec'd this, but took it back PowerToThePeople Apr 2015 #22

+1 leftofcool Apr 2015 #25

Islam is an ethnic group? I don't think so. leftofcool Apr 2015 #24

Islamaphobia is bigotry pure and simple. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #29

This would be fine if all Muslims were Arab or Asian, Blue_In_AK Apr 2015 #31

Great post! nt bananas Apr 2015 #38

Thanks! jobycom Apr 2015 #102

It's very easy to make a category error when talking about any race, group or culture CJCRANE Apr 2015 #40

If you convert to Islam, do you also change your race? Quantess Apr 2015 #41

No thanks. I know what racism is versus bigotry. (nt) Inkfreak Apr 2015 #42

and what about bigotry against Christians or Buddhists or Hindus? cali Apr 2015 #43

+1 B Calm Apr 2015 #44

more to the point, criticism of islam is not the same as "islamophobia" and is not in itself racist Warren Stupidity Apr 2015 #45

Probably, yes and no, I think. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2015 #50

Using Islamophobia to describe any criticism of Islam is as dishonest Warren Stupidity Apr 2015 #53

Yup. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #55

Perfectly said! I'm not a bigot for saying it's wrong to execute gay people. arcane1 Apr 2015 #58

Yes, that does imply that all catholics are also wrong. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2015 #71

No it doesn't. Huge numbers of catholics simply disagree with their church's official positions. nt. Warren Stupidity Apr 2015 #77

Even if it did, so what? Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #133

Yes, that does imply that all catholics are also wrong. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2015 #72

Which is why I said that in the OP. jobycom Apr 2015 #83

So is pointing that sharia law is an abomination "Islamic hatred"? Warren Stupidity Apr 2015 #119

And just so we are on the same page William769 Apr 2015 #46

Bigotry against anything is bigotry. Iggo Apr 2015 #47

I hate fucking nazis/ Warren Stupidity Apr 2015 #48

how many nazis have you had sex with? uppityperson Apr 2015 #61

Illinois Nazis especially. Iggo Apr 2015 #81

intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself seveneyes Apr 2015 #49

No, attacking someone's ideas, even bigotedly, is not racism. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2015 #51

Where would Muhammad Ali fit into this? arcane1 Apr 2015 #52

So let me get this straight, bigotry against Arab Christians is Islamophobia? Pooka Fey Apr 2015 #54

What? jobycom Apr 2015 #101

All religion is equally ridiculous RealityAdvocate Apr 2015 #56

How DARE you disrespect the FSM! Adrahil Apr 2015 #143

Islam is the dominant religion across all racial divides Warpy Apr 2015 #57

Religious animus is a form of bigotry, not racism. Both are bad, but not the same. leveymg Apr 2015 #59

If we are talking just a regional group of Muslims, maybe. Drunken Irishman Apr 2015 #60

The progressive defense of Islam is getting absurd Matrosov Apr 2015 #62

I've said damn near the same in the past here as well. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #65

Thank you. (no text) Quantess Apr 2015 #69

it's fucking INSANE. nt m-lekktor Apr 2015 #74

It's not liberal or progressive, it's just the stupid PC police. B Calm Apr 2015 #75

Thank you. romanic Apr 2015 #76

Tell me who is doing what you said in your post. jobycom Apr 2015 #87

Nobody here is saying that. Throd Apr 2015 #90

Nobody here says any of those things. People say Islam, the ideology, is violent and sexist PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #93

You just said what you said no one was saying in the same post. jobycom Apr 2015 #97

Idiotic? OK, let's play that fucking game, chief. This whole OP is fucking idiotic. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #99

Thank you. nt cwydro Apr 2015 #147

Agree!!! And thank you! n/t Coventina Apr 2015 #91

Agree totally, Matrosov. Arugula Latte Apr 2015 #115

Just want to join in the pile. graegoyle Apr 2015 #70

Imagine ... MrMickeysMom Apr 2015 #73

If you redefine "racism" as being about something else besides race... DetlefK Apr 2015 #78

I didn't redefine race. Those who think it is about skin color are redefining it. jobycom Apr 2015 #86

You're simply wrong. Shoulders of Giants Apr 2015 #80

That's simply racism. jobycom Apr 2015 #109

There are a lot of passages in the Koran commanding that Muslims kill infidels. Arugula Latte Apr 2015 #117

None of those verses command Muslims to kill infidels. Care to learn how language is manipulated? jobycom Apr 2015 #121

The Koran is supposed to be the word of God. Shoulders of Giants Apr 2015 #125

See post Shoulders of Giants Apr 2015 #124

And a longer response... jobycom Apr 2015 #112

Yes religion has kept their society from advancing. Shoulders of Giants Apr 2015 #128

I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart. Anne Frank K&R Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2015 #105

Perhaps not, but close enough in my book. Orsino Apr 2015 #113

So, by this logic, bigotry against Republicans is anti-white racism Arugula Latte Apr 2015 #116

Nope. You have a choice about your religion. You don't about your race. truebrit71 Apr 2015 #118

You can dislike a religion or even hate a religion without disliking/hating it's followers Marrah_G Apr 2015 #120

Yes, of course you can. As I said in the OP. But hatred of Muslims based on stereotypes of religion jobycom Apr 2015 #122

really well said. guillaumeb Apr 2015 #127

That makes absolutely no sense, if I went even against an even more hierarchical religion... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #134

I am not and do not accuse you personally of generalization here. guillaumeb Apr 2015 #138

Yes I do, particularly as hypocrites, many of them, such as Thomas Jefferson and George Washington.. Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #139

good for your consistency! guillaumeb Apr 2015 #140

First off, most people develop morality independent of their holy books, if they didn't, we would... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #141

I would include the word ethics as well as morality. guillaumeb Apr 2015 #142

True, I developed my ethics based on simple things like human rights and fairness... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #144

Interesting comments. guillaumeb Apr 2015 #148

Here's the poll... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #149

thank you. I will read it. guillaumeb Apr 2015 #151

Since everybody else is throwing in their 2 cents, why not... Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2015 #126

Neither race nor ethnicity LWolf Apr 2015 #135

Wouldn't "intersects with racism" be just as easy to say and more accurate? DirkGently Apr 2015 #136

The Quran is a book full of violence, excuses for violence, sexism, homophobia... Humanist_Activist Apr 2015 #137

And bigotry, even "religious" bigotry, against women is misogyny. n/t pnwmom Apr 2015 #145

Why the quotation marks? N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2015 #146

I do not love, relish nor respect people who use their religion as a club ProudToBeBlueInRhody Apr 2015 #150