General Discussion

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)

205. I see demands couched as false framing of the choices.

Thu Apr 16, 2015, 12:44 PM

Apr 2015

Criticism of Clinton is all too often met by comparing her to Republicans. Some Clinton supporters imply that if you're not for Clinton, right now, you must be for Cruz, Paul, or Rubio.

Yes, at the moment, the only declared major candidates are Clinton and three right-wingers. That's at the moment -- several months before the Iowa caucuses, even. It's patently absurd for Clinton supporters to say or imply that there are only four choices for President.

There are at least four other Democrats who've won statewide office (usually a prerequisite to being a serious Presidential candidate) and who've indicated serious interest in running. It's virtually certain (IMO) that at least one of them will run.

The time to compare Clinton to Cruz et al. is if and when Clinton is the Democratic nominee, or has commitments from more than 50% of the delegates. Right now she's a wee bit short of that figure.

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The demands for Hillary loyalty are loud and clear on DU. [View all] JDPriestly Apr 2015 OP

Demands? I don't see demands here. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #1

Best. H Logo. Ever! KamaAina Apr 2015 #4

Thanks. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #9

Ooh. Your H> Doesn't know where that elephant has been! NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #68

lmfao! hrmjustin Apr 2015 #70

DUZY award right here folks! leftofcool Apr 2015 #131

We got so much flack about laughing at the original logo's merrily Apr 2015 #204

you mean.... NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #208

Well, if you assume the H is Hillary and the arrow is meant to show where she is heading...... merrily Apr 2015 #210

LOL how the elephant's rear feet are clean off the ground! NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #73

Ah, I remember. Beowulf42 Apr 2015 #92

It's just helping the elephant over the fence. Honest! Thor_MN Apr 2015 #147

I think mine is better... truebrit71 Apr 2015 #234

Nice! KamaAina Apr 2015 #238

Indeed... truebrit71 Apr 2015 #239

I see debate, demands, insults and dismissive rudeness lovemydog Apr 2015 #12

I understand what you are saying. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #14

Heheh, me too. lovemydog Apr 2015 #20

.i love it. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #21

Don't get too overworked so early on imo. Just think, this is the first week! Rex Apr 2015 #45

I was just thinking about that too Rex. lovemydog Apr 2015 #57

Well said. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #71

Or a troll from Free Republic. leftofcool Apr 2015 #132

Probably will be a troll from the RWing blogosphere. Rex Apr 2015 #160

Yes, but myself and I think you would never get testy or angry with someone who said NoJusticeNoPeace Apr 2015 #53

Well said. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #29

Right. H2O Man Apr 2015 #40

This is more fun then debating who my team should take QuestionAlways Apr 2015 #67

I'd like the policies to go further left but the President does not do it alone treestar Apr 2015 #103

Me neither. OP needs to show evidence or admit lying. JaneyVee Apr 2015 #56

That's sarcasm, yes? Bkz calling anyone with concerns about Hillary a "basher" is NOT a debate. DesertDiamond Apr 2015 #196

That is one view. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #199

Shhhhh...Don't ruin their persecution fantasy. LordGlenconner Apr 2015 #201

lol. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #212

I see demands couched as false framing of the choices. Jim Lane Apr 2015 #205

I have no doubt you can point to individual examples of what you said but... hrmjustin Apr 2015 #214

I have no problem with that, but such challenges are not what the OP is about. Jim Lane Apr 2015 #232

I expect to be challenged in GD. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #233

If you don't see what the OP is about, you are being willfully blind Martin Eden Apr 2015 #219

I never said i was against a primary. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #224

Nor did I say you said that Martin Eden Apr 2015 #226

Lol. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #227

You too! Martin Eden Apr 2015 #229

Yawn trumad Apr 2015 #2

We there you have it. bluesbassman Apr 2015 #24

HA! 0-7 Jury vote to leave your post alone trumad CreekDog Apr 2015 #66

alerted for the word yawn. trumad Apr 2015 #82

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service XemaSab Apr 2015 #122

poor little alert stalker... trumad Apr 2015 #140

Props to Juror #5 -- very good explanation! (n/t) Jim Lane Apr 2015 #207

"his" meds??? NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #133

Jury results fadedrose Apr 2015 #79

Wake up! Martin Eden Apr 2015 #222

I gave you a big long reply in another thread. lovemydog Apr 2015 #3

Very wise. I am strongly on one side of the dispute about Hillary. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #52

WARREN'S NOT RUNNING. Darb Apr 2015 #188

Well said and too true. Vincardog Apr 2015 #5

Get somebody to run. Kingofalldems Apr 2015 #6

Will you give Sanders a chance? hardcover Apr 2015 #129

Perhaps if he had one... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #151

Its not a demand...its just facts... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #7

57% in polling two days ago AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #22

In ONE poll....I can show you multiples....and consistency... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #23

LOL AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #26

I could also show YOU how she polls against the Republicans now... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #28

LOL AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #33

yeah...LOL indeed I AM! VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #34

That poll raises more questions than it answers onenote Apr 2015 #112

What is not disputable is the trending downward trajectory of her approval rating among Dems AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #115

I don't see that many people trying to put the kibosh on the primary process onenote Apr 2015 #116

I'm pretty useless when it comes to dissecting polls. AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #117

You are right and that is why I gave you the link to RealClearPolitics VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #154

here's the trend you are in denial about AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #161

That is ONLY Gallup polls my friend... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #162

Ahhhh, yes, GALLUP!!! MADem Apr 2015 #166

Riiiiight. Your knuckleheaded kneejerk denial is impressive. AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #170

Your snarling resort to personal invective is, certainly! MADem Apr 2015 #175

True, and people need to understand that. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #247

Why don't you do a teensy bit of research about assessing trends. AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #168

No why don't YOU....I have done my homework... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #169

You are simply flat out incorrect. AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #171

No I am not....here you go...look again.. VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #172

The poster with whom you 'argue' (I use the word loosely, it's not a fair fight, you are winning in MADem Apr 2015 #178

incorrect DrKZ Apr 2015 #194

its a trend showing historical data that contradicts VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #197

I did read the entire thread ... I could go into detail but here is a response to your poll data DrKZ Apr 2015 #252

One poll does not a trend make....but you know that VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #152

here's a trend for you AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #165

And here is one for you... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #174

Once again you need to look at the studies (not polls not the misinformation highway) DrKZ Apr 2015 #198

I think you are trying to represent that a graphed line for a trend...regardless of that direction Sheepshank Apr 2015 #186

the line graph represents the trend of numerical data over time AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #200

Her voice is uninspiring DarknessFalls Apr 2015 #37

Her voice now? VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #39

No, not now, always. DarknessFalls Apr 2015 #55

Unfortunately, you re right. And voices matter. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #135

All women have high voices....WTF are you trying to say? VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #167

The Kathleen Turner effect DrKZ Apr 2015 #253

Kathleen Turner and you if what you are describing is true...is the anomaly not the norm VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #255

you know who's voice really super sucks...Cruz n/t Sheepshank Apr 2015 #187

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2015 #191

Damn, I missed the response...bet it was a good one lol n/t Sheepshank Apr 2015 #223

They very much are. The Green Manalishi Apr 2015 #228

They support who they are told to support. Heard mentality. too lazy to think for themselves. bowens43 Apr 2015 #65

bullshit. nt seabeyond Apr 2015 #69

Wow, too lazy to think for sufrommich Apr 2015 #74

And insulting the vast majority of Democrats who support Clinton in the Democratic Party VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #176

the only "demands" I see are that we all vote for a/the D DrDan Apr 2015 #8

All demands are counterproductive including that one. zeemike Apr 2015 #89

I should stop demanding?????????????? What have I demanded? DrDan Apr 2015 #141

You are not going to pick a fight with me. zeemike Apr 2015 #149

I am picking a fight???? too rich DrDan Apr 2015 #183

See your post I replied to.n/t zeemike Apr 2015 #185

This message was self-deleted by its author carolinayellowdog Apr 2015 #215

the demand on "Democratic Underground" to vote for a Democrat....is "counterproductive"?? VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #180

I admit that I may have demanded that no one vote "R" Sheepshank Apr 2015 #221

No I see demand as a problem. zeemike Apr 2015 #225

yeah, appearing to demand, or assuming so many demand that people stop demanding is a total turn off Sheepshank Apr 2015 #242

I make no demands that you stop anything. zeemike Apr 2015 #244

Not much interested in examples from last century. randome Apr 2015 #10

Who thinks they could win against the woman with 75% party support? VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #13

If someone else shows up who can, I'd welcome them. randome Apr 2015 #16

it is what it is... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #19

Your question is based on assumptions that, as I point out, are not yet proven to be true. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #25

Name another Democrat with 75% support...this far out VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #41

Again, while the 75% approval rate is not to be ignored or laughed at, JDPriestly Apr 2015 #46

Its VERY important....but not AS important as the FACT that she also polls VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #47

As a supporter of Hillary, I hope you are doing what you can to insure that differential lasts JDPriestly Apr 2015 #50

Yeah a warning from the guy with the Warren logo in his sig line... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #97

Not so much a warning as the voice of experience. I've watched a lot of election cycles. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #108

actually you said "warning" VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #146

The thing about such a poll number is Americans do enjoy seeing people fail HereSince1628 Apr 2015 #76

riiiiiiioght...yeah that is the perfect answer! VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #98

Where did I call her quote inevitable unquote?? HereSince1628 Apr 2015 #109

Oh I get you now...her 75% polling numbers is all because of media.... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #110

You don't do angry very well HereSince1628 Apr 2015 #111

Probably because I am not angry... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #145

To all those yapping about 75% approval ratings: semanticwikiian Apr 2015 #80

Yes. Not only the bandwagon fallacy but also the phenomenon of peaking too soon. RufusTFirefly Apr 2015 #85

Yeah enjoy it while you can....its been such for oh over a year now.... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #100

This one paragraph is totally correct: Stuart G Apr 2015 #62

Hillary has survived their attacks for how long now? VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #101

You're thinking of the "killer rabbit" incident Art_from_Ark Apr 2015 #127

Yes. I was not living in the US at the time but still read about it in a foreign newspaper. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #130

Nobody on an internet forum can demand anything from you. sufrommich Apr 2015 #11

If you like to play the victim.. it's a "demand". Cha Apr 2015 #17

Man that bugs me.It's like people sufrommich Apr 2015 #30

I was just thinking that treestar Apr 2015 #104

That's not true. LWolf Apr 2015 #150

All forums have moderation.It's not censoring,it's sufrommich Apr 2015 #153

Yes. LWolf Apr 2015 #155

The OP is stating that Hillary supporters have the sufrommich Apr 2015 #156

That's not what I read in the OP. LWolf Apr 2015 #157

No--compliance is the currency YOU spend to enter the venue. No one "demands" that you willingly MADem Apr 2015 #163

. LWolf Apr 2015 #256

It's not ME telling myself--or you. It's in the TOS. MADem Apr 2015 #257

OMG...THANK YOU. LWolf Apr 2015 #259

So pleased I was able to help. MADem Apr 2015 #260

i make no assumptions. i am excited ot listen to others that jump in. demand? what? seabeyond Apr 2015 #15

Thoughtful post. Thanks. AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #18

Kicked and recommended a whole bunch! Enthusiast Apr 2015 #27

Please don't spit on me and tell me it's raining... DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #31

The Martyr... alcibiades_mystery Apr 2015 #32

The safest place to be on a liberal or conservative board is to stake out... DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #38

and means no one expects you to DO shit.... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #42

No, you don't know who the candidate will be BainsBane Apr 2015 #35

A couple of issues that are important to me are TPP and other trade agreements, charter JDPriestly Apr 2015 #43

I'm not putting my eggs anywhere BainsBane Apr 2015 #51

Who are "all these candidates" of which you speak? MADem Apr 2015 #173

I couldn't agree with you more and would add DrKZ Apr 2015 #203

Excellent post. nt Bobbie Jo Apr 2015 #64

"Nothing you or anyone else posts on DU encourages anyone to run." Bonobo Apr 2015 #114

Kickin' Faux pas Apr 2015 #36

How could I *not* rec a JDPriestly post? MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #44

Since OP isn't around, perhaps you can give links and evidence? JaneyVee Apr 2015 #59

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Apr 2015 #48

And I, for one, will be voting for all Democrats except Hillary. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #54

this is the number 1 reason i am not a clinton supporter and yet, if she gets the nod, you can damn seabeyond Apr 2015 #58

that's because you're not hysterical, seabeyond Skittles Apr 2015 #72

i really. gotta wonder. seabeyond Apr 2015 #77

K&R n/t Oilwellian Apr 2015 #49

Great post. I appreciate the fact that you stay on issue while others seem to rhett o rick Apr 2015 #60

Great post JD MissDeeds Apr 2015 #61

Very. Well. Put. DeSwiss Apr 2015 #63

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2015 #75

Well you just attacked him. zeemike Apr 2015 #93

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2015 #94

My "agency"..WTF is that a new buzz word I have not yet seen?. zeemike Apr 2015 #96

The only thing close to demands are to vote for the Democratic nominee dbackjon Apr 2015 #78

The demands can grow as loud and clear as they want to rury Apr 2015 #81

Outstanding post RiverLover Apr 2015 #83

"The Inevitable Hillary" Unexploded Scotsman Apr 2015 #84

"The demands for Hillary loyalty are loud and clear " NaturalHigh Apr 2015 #86

A valiant try, my friend. Hell Hath No Fury Apr 2015 #87

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Apr 2015 #123

Her supporters wanna skip the primary because she'll be laid bare whatchamacallit Apr 2015 #88

I am all for a primary. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #90

Glad to hear it whatchamacallit Apr 2015 #95

I want a primary. leftofcool Apr 2015 #136

Yay! whatchamacallit Apr 2015 #138

Huh? Beowulf42 Apr 2015 #91

K&R marym625 Apr 2015 #99

What demands? treestar Apr 2015 #102

In many cases, H2O Man Apr 2015 #105

TY, JD, I wholeheartedly agree. K & R mother earth Apr 2015 #106

I will vote according to my conscience ...and I ain't selling my soul to the 1% to win. L0oniX Apr 2015 #107

I'm only asking for party loyalty in November, 2016. RandySF Apr 2015 #113

I refuse to just fall in to be falling in because someone says so. lonestarnot Apr 2015 #118

Update DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #119

To be fair, you should count the dismissive or insulting morningfog Apr 2015 #121

People are just fighting fire with fire.../NT DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #124

No. Responding to criticisms of a candidate with personal insults directed at a DUer is not morningfog Apr 2015 #125

The constant barrage of hate, invective, and criticism is bound to result in pushback.../NT DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #128

Personal attack is not pushback. Even characterizing morningfog Apr 2015 #139

I get to decide what is hurtful and offensive... DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #142

I will never understand how criticism of a national figure's morningfog Apr 2015 #143

When the criticism is often baseless, slanted, and repetitive folks are going to respond... DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #144

And there you go to the personal attack. morningfog Apr 2015 #148

What is insulting about suggesting that when a person upsets another person DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #184

This: morningfog Apr 2015 #189

If posters weren't calling out other posters , implicitly or explicitly, DU would suck much less. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #190

Good post. It's gonna be a fun ride. morningfog Apr 2015 #120

You and we all are voters, not victims. It's called an election for a reason. pinto Apr 2015 #126

I didn't realize saying... one_voice Apr 2015 #134

Who said "F--k Clinton'' on this board, not that it surprises me ? DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #137

Funny the only ones I read proclaiming Hillary is inevitable are not her supporters. Thinkingabout Apr 2015 #158

+1,000,000. MADem Apr 2015 #179

SUPPORT whosoever you'd like. MADem Apr 2015 #159

I glad to see you have such contempt for us people who don't have mops on top of our heads nolabels Apr 2015 #192

Huh? MADem Apr 2015 #193

Then you are saying there will not be a candidate you can vote? Thinkingabout Apr 2015 #216

No, not at all, the problem i have with the 'wink and nod' is the ploy of it. nolabels Apr 2015 #235

All candidates need to be asked, "What do you have to do for all of that money?" Dustlawyer Apr 2015 #164

Support whatever candidate you want in the primaries, and advocate for that candidate. Because still_one Apr 2015 #177

+ 1,000,000,000 What You Said !!! WillyT Apr 2015 #181

Is this Satire , too? Cryptoad Apr 2015 #182

Thanks for writing what I was trying to formulate in my head. Well said! DesertDiamond Apr 2015 #195

hyperbolic nonsense. stonecutter357 Apr 2015 #202

Whatever. I don't give a damn who you vote for MoonRiver Apr 2015 #206

I've yet to sign up for Team Hillary and no one is pressuring me LynneSin Apr 2015 #209

Not there yet LynneSin Apr 2015 #249

Not until she is the official nominee Lunabell Apr 2015 #211

We went through this in 2007 and 2008. No thanks. Hillary has to earn my vote. Period! Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2015 #213

K and R times a MILLION !!! Martin Eden Apr 2015 #217

So, now let the primary contesters announce! MoonRiver Apr 2015 #218

Lincoln Chafee just did ... Martin Eden Apr 2015 #220

And his assistant retracted. MADem Apr 2015 #258

Dude, you are NOT a persecuted minority at DU, so don't try to guilt anyone. McCamy Taylor Apr 2015 #230

calling her inevitable is to preempt any challenge MisterP Apr 2015 #231

Precisely. And it weakens our party because the primary is the period in which we get to JDPriestly Apr 2015 #243

I agree with you completely DrKZ Apr 2015 #254

The only demand I see is to stop using right wing propaganda! B Calm Apr 2015 #236

Excellent post bud. Phlem Apr 2015 #240

Yet to see a single demand Politicub Apr 2015 #241

Boo fricken hoo! wolfie001 Apr 2015 #245

As of now, Clinton is the only declared candidate. Where should our loyalties lie? George II Apr 2015 #246

Can't wait til we see the first use of Hillbots. blkmusclmachine Apr 2015 #248

Hillary Clinton is no spring chicken. sulphurdunn Apr 2015 #250

Absolutely. Thanks. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #251