General Discussion

cui bono

(19,926 posts)

149. No. He should not be blamed as he was the only determining factor that was democracy in action.

Sat Apr 18, 2015, 10:50 PM

Apr 2015

There were about 6-7 other factors but he's the only one that continuously gets brought up as if he is some evil guy. He's not. He speaks truth to power and he really wanted to fix things. He has been speaking about the dangers of globalization since before it was a common expression.

The problem, as the other poster has addressed in detail, is with our political system. Not with Nader.

To demonize him with such a simple response to a post that went into detail about the realities of that whole situation is... well... simplistic. It would be nice to actually discuss how to fix the system rather than a simplistic "Nader bad" response, especially when it just isn't true. Gore actually won. So how is it Nader's fault that he didn't get the office?

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If elected President, which of these Democrats... [View all] MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 OP

Hillary because I think she has the best chance to bring the house and senate to the Democrats. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #1

This is precisely why I voted for Clinton. joshcryer Apr 2015 #19

Sanders can't get elected Tommy2Tone Apr 2015 #24

What Nader did was true democracy in action. cui bono Apr 2015 #54

Nader had the right to run but he was a contributing factor to Gore's loss. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #93

Exactly my point n/t Tommy2Tone Apr 2015 #96

Thanks One of the 99 Apr 2015 #111

The system is more to blame for our loss then... cascadiance Apr 2015 #127

Nader was not the only reason but he was a major factor. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #129

But focusing on him to blame makes it harder to fix the system properly... cascadiance Apr 2015 #131

I am sorry but he had the right to run but his running helped cause Bush and he deserves to be hrmjustin Apr 2015 #132

No, you're blaming continues to keep a corrupt system in place! cascadiance Apr 2015 #133

I have no problem with third parties but they are not immune from criticism. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #134

But criticize their policies, not that simply running helps the Republicans... cascadiance Apr 2015 #136

With respect I think he can be criticized for running as well. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #137

You are criticizing democracy then too... cascadiance Apr 2015 #138

Damn i hate myself! hrmjustin Apr 2015 #139

Post 151. MADem Apr 2015 #152

Agree 100 percent. I don't look on Nader as a positive force after 2000. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #153

No. He should not be blamed as he was the only determining factor that was democracy in action. cui bono Apr 2015 #149

+1 - That's my point. cui bono Apr 2015 #150

Agree..The SCOTUS stole this election n/t Tommy2Tone Apr 2015 #144

Yes, taking all that GOP money for his campaign was "true democracy in action....?" MADem Apr 2015 #151

I think Sanders could win if he was the nominee. joshcryer Apr 2015 #56

Sanders can't be the nominee since he is not a Democrat Tommy2Tone Apr 2015 #95

There's nothing in our system STOPPING him from being a Democrat to do so... cascadiance Apr 2015 #126

I have no issue if he runs as a Democrat Tommy2Tone Apr 2015 #143

I think he's given strong indications that this is the way he'd do it. cascadiance Apr 2015 #146

Sanders=Nader only if he runs against the Democrat, which is highly unlikely. Jim Lane Apr 2015 #57

Why do you... onyourleft Apr 2015 #82

I think that many here underestimate the capability of either Sanders or Warren winning... cascadiance Apr 2015 #135

So we have to settle for eight more years of center-right nothingness Ken Burch Apr 2015 #65

You need Congress to do anything. joshcryer Apr 2015 #66

I know we need Congress. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #69

Where has Clinton run away? joshcryer Apr 2015 #70

All Clinton has to do is not fuck anything up DonCoquixote Apr 2015 #88

You're assuming she wants to regain the House and the Senate. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #38

Really? Was she president in the 90's? hrmjustin Apr 2015 #39

Marionette... Agschmid Apr 2015 #40

No they weren't. joshcryer Apr 2015 #53

Because they almost never said the words "we need a Democratic Congress" Ken Burch Apr 2015 #59

Have you watched it? joshcryer Apr 2015 #60

He COULD have flipped the House back to us in '96, but he didn't even try. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #61

He ran on welfare, Ken. joshcryer Apr 2015 #62

welfare could have been reformed WITHOUT punishing the poor. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #63

How? He ran on cuts. joshcryer Apr 2015 #64

He ran on "ending welfare as we know it"-not on throwing poor people to the wolves. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #67

You are simply wrong. joshcryer Apr 2015 #68

He could at least have shown the stones Harry Truman showed when he vetoed Taft-Hartley. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #72

Sure. joshcryer Apr 2015 #73

+1000 Third Way politicians seek divided government, not majorities. woo me with science Apr 2015 #79

I think she has the worst chance for coattails. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2015 #83

Well we disagree. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #89

Agreed. LuvNewcastle Apr 2015 #162

Hillary tied for 2nd! nt Logical Apr 2015 #94

Turn things around from what? zappaman Apr 2015 #2

I tried to be gracious. MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #10

Voted for Bernie because as you said Elizabeth is not running. jwirr Apr 2015 #3

Bernie isn't a Democrat currently so... Agschmid Apr 2015 #4

I want to pick Liz who isn't running or Bernie but I'm ignoring Manny so I can't vote in the poll. Autumn Apr 2015 #5

Me too. MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #6

Like an ignore Manny group? Awesome! May I be co host host? Autumn Apr 2015 #9

We can co-host. MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #29

I can get behind that, the promise not to post Autumn Apr 2015 #92

If you're ignoring Manny, how is it you're able to post on this thread? n/t. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #71

It's a special new DU feature. I can say I ignore Manny and still give him crap Autumn Apr 2015 #87

No...but I would be interested in a "Ignore the Ignore MannyGoldstein group". n/t. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #141

It's not up and running yet but in the meantime you can still join us in the Elizabeth Warren Autumn Apr 2015 #142

I'll give those a look. Cheers. n/t. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #147

Im not ignoring Manny and I still can't vote in the poll. JaneyVee Apr 2015 #155

No one is restricted from voting. You can chose Other if you like no one listed in the poll Autumn Apr 2015 #156

No, it won't let me vote because poster must have me on ignore. JaneyVee Apr 2015 #157

The time has run out on the poll that's why the options to vote are un-clickable. Autumn Apr 2015 #158

Ah, ok. I learn something new about DU every day. JaneyVee Apr 2015 #159

It took me a bit to find it. I looked twice for your name to see if you had voted Autumn Apr 2015 #160

http://www.dumblittleman.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Change.png blkmusclmachine Apr 2015 #7

How in the world can anyone seriously vote for Hillary in this poll? Reter Apr 2015 #8

You voted for the one person who isn't a democrat, just FYI. Agschmid Apr 2015 #12

Ironic how he's the one acting most like a Democrat though.... truebrit71 Apr 2015 #28

Well done, and very true. nt haikugal Apr 2015 #55

Yes, indeed. n/t onyourleft Apr 2015 #84

There's no ideal/perfect Democrat that everyone can agree on YoungDemCA Apr 2015 #122

Except he isn't... Agschmid Apr 2015 #130

If you are not being facetious and/or pointing out Manny messed that up treestar Apr 2015 #112

I was pointing out that it seemed like a flawed poll. Agschmid Apr 2015 #114

She has actual supporters treestar Apr 2015 #110

Elizabeth Warren Aerows Apr 2015 #11

+6.02e23 nt MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #41

Give me a hug Aerows Apr 2015 #42

I'm still waiting for an answer on what we can do about TPP BainsBane Apr 2015 #13

Face it: MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #14

Because I was hoping you'd have ideas BainsBane Apr 2015 #16

Nah, sorry. MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #20

So what does progressive reform consist of BainsBane Apr 2015 #22

Good point. MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #26

AFL-CIO Day of Action to Stop Fast Track- Today, April 18 2015.....Do something about it!!!! Bluenorthwest Apr 2015 #90

Thank you! nt BainsBane Apr 2015 #119

What can you do about anything, BainsBane? Scootaloo Apr 2015 #34

I understand that BainsBane Apr 2015 #36

This is a big Day of Action on Fast Track, there are events all over the country today. Bluenorthwest Apr 2015 #91

How would a president turn things around? BainsBane Apr 2015 #15

IIRC, Warren herself did the killing MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #21

Nope, she just voted the administration that killed him into office. BainsBane Apr 2015 #23

I really have no idea. MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #27

Nobody knows where to draw the line treestar Apr 2015 #76

Good point MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #98

Hillary never voted for his appointing POTUS treestar Apr 2015 #99

I really don't know what to say MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #101

Hillary is a murderer of Gaddafi? treestar Apr 2015 #103

I'm curious: did you vote for John Kerry? MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #108

Yes. treestar Apr 2015 #109

You're right. Kissinger is only an accessory to murder. But, there's no statute of limitations leveymg Apr 2015 #115

What is the second oldest Democratic government? treestar Apr 2015 #116

They are still doing it treestar Apr 2015 #77

Kick for Bernie. 840high Apr 2015 #17

I'm of the opinion that anyone these days who would make a great POTUS for the 99% ... Fumesucker Apr 2015 #18

Love that the person winning isn't a democrat... Agschmid Apr 2015 #25

And yet Bernie acts more like a Democrat than the rest.... truebrit71 Apr 2015 #31

I agree it's interesting, but realistically he is acting just like he is... Agschmid Apr 2015 #33

Wait, he's just acting that way? truebrit71 Apr 2015 #35

Where did I say that? Agschmid Apr 2015 #37

Sorta how Hillary is talking "just like she is" a socialist/populist. Autumn Apr 2015 #105

Good post. Agschmid Apr 2015 #107

My fault. MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #32

Don't apologize Aerows Apr 2015 #45

I suck less? MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #48

To be fair I don't think you suck at all... Agschmid Apr 2015 #49

Nah. I think you win! KMOD Apr 2015 #52

Are you determined Aerows Apr 2015 #44

I do on a daily basis. Agschmid Apr 2015 #50

so now you are being open about treestar Apr 2015 #75

Try again... Agschmid Apr 2015 #97

You said that you loved that the winner of this poll was not a Democrat treestar Apr 2015 #100

Lol. Agschmid Apr 2015 #106

It's going to take more than the Presidency to turn things around. winter is coming Apr 2015 #30

And yet . . . Major Hogwash Apr 2015 #58

Elizabeth Warren Aerows Apr 2015 #43

Any of them would make a huge difference KMOD Apr 2015 #46

Well said! hrmjustin Apr 2015 #47

Yup! Agschmid Apr 2015 #51

None without Congress treestar Apr 2015 #74

Correct answer ... and it is instructive that the OP did not include it. JoePhilly Apr 2015 #102

Or the desire for a dictator who will be obedient to their own purist demands YoungDemCA Apr 2015 #123

How much does Bernie owe Corporations for his Campaigns ? orpupilofnature57 Apr 2015 #78

Bernie fights for Democratic principles better than most card-carrying Dems... polichick Apr 2015 #80

I'm just surprised that President Kucinich hasn't fixed everything... SidDithers Apr 2015 #81

It's always said a person lost for not being progressive enough treestar Apr 2015 #104

If your 1% allies, the MSM, would have allowed Kucinich some press, maybe he would have. Zorra Apr 2015 #117

He's too busy collecting his check from his good buddy Rupert, and playing the MADem Apr 2015 #154

I'll pass rock Apr 2015 #85

No one ann--- Apr 2015 #86

I voted, "did not wish to select any of the options provided" ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #113

You mean we can't have a STRONG LEADER that can "turn things around?" YoungDemCA Apr 2015 #120

I'll go a step further ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #124

Good point. MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #125

Did you read the part about ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #128

As I've noted in my thread, Hillary isn't interested in changing trade or campain finances WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2015 #118

In case you haven't noticed, both houses of Congress are controlled by the GOP YoungDemCA Apr 2015 #121

Draft Barbara Lee! nt daredtowork Apr 2015 #140

Would be fine with Sanders or Warren mvd Apr 2015 #145

No One Will "Turn Things Around" Liberal_Dog Apr 2015 #148

We need to beg the 1% to at least let us live in poverty and give us just a few more crumbs. L0oniX Apr 2015 #161