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whatthehey

(3,660 posts)
95. Wish I knew. I'm no marketing guru. But we know what doesn't work
Tue Apr 21, 2015, 12:24 PM
Apr 2015

Harking on about the needy and the "little guy" won't work because they don't see themselves that way, but as tough resourceful people who stand on their own two feet (even the ones on benefits). If they aren't earning a lot it's because the Mexicans are undercutting their wages or the liberals are taxing them too much. To need help is to be weak. To accept that you are the little guy is to be proud of being weak. The brotherhood of the downtrodden is a nonstarter here. This is why I think pols of all stripes focus rhetoric on the middle class, because your average $9/hr white guy is too proud to think of himself as less than middle in any way.

The very last thing that will work with this crowd is to stress that Dems champion minorities, or women, or gays. We should actually do that of course, but to advertise that to the lower echelon white male demographic that hates, belittles and shrinks from association with those groups, in that order, is to turn them away from you. Who would want to support a party that supports those you have been told, and thought, are beneath you your whole life? What insults do white men trade the most with each other? Ones that indicate they are either female or gay. What group do they see as the embodiment of all that is antithetical to the rugged self-made straight arrow they see themselves as? The pop-culture stereotype of shiftless, welfare-dependent, criminal blacks who in their mind are the only type of black people who exist. Christ help you if you support non-Christians too, but the Dems by and large haven't yet been brave/suicidal enough to do much of that.

Image is honestly all they react to. To me it's like buying small foreign cars in the early 70s. It doesn't matter that they were more reliable, cheaper to buy and run, more practical. They weren't big and tough and macho and real 'Murican. John Wayne wouldn't drive a Honda, and he wouldn't vote Democratic. The only way I see to beat that is to focus on changing a few key images mostly with emotional loading but maybe with very very simple facts repeated over and over again, for years. You don't go from "Democrats aren't wussies" to "let's talk about the conflict arbitration ramifications of the TPP" very quickly. I'd start on hammering D vs R job growth data in very very very simple snapshots, with emotional tie ins always included, and maybe one other attribute - terrorism prosecutions or captures or something intensely "macho", and little else for months on end until it becomes an embedded image, then move on to others. And if, which is of course a questionable if, we want the white working class male vote to trend Dem again we absolutely must abandon any meaningful gun regulation support.

The typical argument against this is that people already support "liberal" ideas. We get bombarded with such data but few of the advocates that the US is really liberal even including white males either notice or admit a couple of key facts:

1) Surveys that show a majority supporting gay marriage or universal health care or whatever rarely show a majority of white lower echelon males doing so.
2) Those surveys NEVER include the follow up "and would you vote for the party most likely to advocate this in a national election assuming that's the Democrats?" because Bubba may very well be ok with the idea of the Fed paying for his doctor, he doesn't want the same for Shawnt'elle and her kids dsown the street. He may even be ok with Adam and Steve geting married (as long as they never hold hands in his sight) but not if it goes along with actual diplomacy towards the "towelheads" in Iran instead of bombing them like a real man would.

Frankly I'm even less a political strategist than a marketer, but personally I wouldn't chase the low information white male voter very hard, beyond a campaign as mentioned above top pick off a few of the more rational ones. They are too far gone and to get very many of them back would take imaging and even actions that would turn our backs on both principles and utilitarian benefit in too many areas. It would mean speaking out even less than Dems already do for equality and fairness and peace and progress, because in all honesty that's not what the bar crowd wants. Demographics will cover their numbers nationally, and given the chance a serious overhaul of education policies would over generations decrease the number of proud know-nothings still further. In the short term, politically the Dems should basically say "fuck the middle aged lower echelon white male vote", and I say that as a middle aged white male who came from the lower echelons.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

as long as whit emen continue to define their masculinity thru their vote, there will be an issue seabeyond Apr 2015 #1
But white males do NOT see a vote for the GOP as against their self-interest. guillaumeb Apr 2015 #5
The GOP knew they had to break the unions and they did it with a lot of racism and CTyankee Apr 2015 #138
You are so right. hifiguy Apr 2015 #142
So many don't think of themselves as ever having been privileged by their gender or race YoungDemCA Apr 2015 #6
And as long as they continue to stay myopic about the world around them. Rex Apr 2015 #14
Me voting Democratic has been against my economic self-interest. Ikonoklast Apr 2015 #67
Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration CANDO Apr 2015 #104
Massive increase in insurance mandatory minimums. Ikonoklast Apr 2015 #143
Thank you for the detailed reply CANDO Apr 2015 #156
while I'm generally not much of a believer in gender politics, this is most of the problem whatthehey Apr 2015 #78
This should be its own thread / op JustAnotherGen Apr 2015 #82
Wish I knew. I'm no marketing guru. But we know what doesn't work whatthehey Apr 2015 #95
we had a real character of what you describe as our mechanic a while back... CTyankee Apr 2015 #144
Huey Long knew. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #148
+1. n/t obnoxiousdrunk Apr 2015 #92
People model what is expected of them. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #100
" There are no reasons to believe that white men were always knuckle dragging morons." DonCoquixote Apr 2015 #107
I suspect white men voted for FDR lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #108
well they have not DonCoquixote Apr 2015 #109
The current president has said... lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #117
Guys don't advocate for themselves, they suffer individually, and project that hurt in other ways. DonCoquixote Apr 2015 #133
Always? Certainly not. But their politics are more than any other group whatthehey Apr 2015 #126
None of my friends, men or women, spend appreciable time in bars. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #127
I spend approx 15 hrs a week in bars, w/ a 158 IQ, multiple degrees and a few academic publications whatthehey Apr 2015 #137
... and this provides you insight into the attitudes of working class white men? lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #146
Uneducated white working males job prospects onecaliberal Apr 2015 #2
You appear to be implying that intelligence is determined by skin color... Fumesucker Apr 2015 #19
I am in agreement with the OP onecaliberal Apr 2015 #55
Everyone in the working class is sliding backwards economically Fumesucker Apr 2015 #59
Racism is a huge issue here, and probably the biggest one. hifiguy Apr 2015 #3
Ah yes, the ole' "I will make all of our lives miserable, if it means making your life miserable" YoungDemCA Apr 2015 #10
voting against their own interests ... napkinz Apr 2015 #37
LBJ never spoke words that were more true. hifiguy Apr 2015 #38
Spot on. nt sufrommich Apr 2015 #39
Warren owns this demographic. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #4
so minorities should not have a say ? JI7 Apr 2015 #7
JI7, I've noticed something about internet discussion... Scootaloo Apr 2015 #26
So...you're saying you hate kittehs??!! (nt) Inkfreak Apr 2015 #66
No, the NRA owns that demographic. nt sufrommich Apr 2015 #9
this JI7 Apr 2015 #17
Warren owns that demographic? Huh? Cali_Democrat Apr 2015 #15
Are you saying that white working-class men are all, or mostly, Republican? NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #64
I go by election results Cali_Democrat Apr 2015 #65
White men are not all working class or even mostly working class betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #86
Yep, they don't know they hate Warren yet- only because she hasn't been targeted by Rush and company bettyellen Apr 2015 #87
that is unadulterated hooey dsc Apr 2015 #76
They sure don't want Hillary Clinton, who has no intention of making their lives better. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #84
yeah it is vastly more liberal dsc Apr 2015 #88
The values that Warren holds resonate strongly with working class men. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #128
The problem is not the Democratic party Cali_Democrat Apr 2015 #8
Yep. nt sufrommich Apr 2015 #11
Yep and a lot of them are ammosexuals or hard-core bigots to boot. hifiguy Apr 2015 #13
In other words, "Those idiots, why won't they vote for us?" Ex Lurker Apr 2015 #33
When you tell someone that they are getting economically screwed by hifiguy Apr 2015 #42
There is zero hope for the type of person you describe ProudToBeBlueInRhody Apr 2015 #69
Anyone who votes Republican, is an idiot. Cali_Democrat Apr 2015 #43
they aren't idiots . they are voting based on bigotry JI7 Apr 2015 #49
+1 n/t lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #119
Fuck those rednecks. Right? Comrade Grumpy Apr 2015 #110
Yes, fuck Republican rednecks who vote for assholes like Ted Cruz. Cali_Democrat Apr 2015 #115
You do know that probably tens of millions of white guys voted for Obama? Comrade Grumpy Apr 2015 #121
My comment wasn't specific to all white guys Cali_Democrat Apr 2015 #123
Bullshit. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #118
Anyone who votes Republican, watches fox news, and listens to Rush Limbaugh... Cali_Democrat Apr 2015 #120
Straight white males are voting repulican? Yes, and so are their wives. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #122
The white electorate is shrinking as a percentage of the vote...and it's shrinking fast. Cali_Democrat Apr 2015 #125
When that happens, then who will you kick out of our club in the name of purity? n/t lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #147
Reading comprehension appears to be an issue here... Cali_Democrat Apr 2015 #150
we see it on here all the time . women minorities lgbt JI7 Apr 2015 #12
"The biggest driver of white working-class disaffection, however, is clearly economic insecurity" HereSince1628 Apr 2015 #16
that doesn't make sense since they voted romney JI7 Apr 2015 #20
Follow the money BKH70041 Apr 2015 #18
odd considering all the criticisms of Hillary and other democrats JI7 Apr 2015 #21
Women and minorities will go Democratic. BKH70041 Apr 2015 #23
turnout is important. Obama campAigned hard in black .Hispanic.young areas JI7 Apr 2015 #24
Allow me to clarify. BKH70041 Apr 2015 #32
It's always an issue. obama had to work hard for the high turnouts JI7 Apr 2015 #51
Restated BKH70041 Apr 2015 #61
Used to call him a Reagan Democrat. Described perfectly here: leveymg Apr 2015 #22
The democrats have dropped the ball on economics betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #25
women and minorities are just too stupid to see what JI7 Apr 2015 #27
Yes---hasn't that been mansplained to you, yet? nt msanthrope Apr 2015 #31
Womansplaned. I am a women n/t betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #34
This message was self-deleted by its author MerryBlooms Apr 2015 #48
They don't have as many shiny objects blinding them to facts. betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #36
of course they do, the shiny object is the Gun which is why they vote republican JI7 Apr 2015 #68
Most people don't vote at all so that betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #71
"They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or pampango Apr 2015 #72
So called anti-trade views aren't the republican base. betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #73
Of course they are. The majority of the republican base opposes TPP. And it's not just the TPP pampango Apr 2015 #75
The majority of the democratic base opposes TPP too betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #80
No it doesn't. pampango Apr 2015 #81
we aren't talking about the republican base we are talking about working class whites. betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #83
So "while a slight majority of the democratic base do indicate support" for the TPP, pampango Apr 2015 #90
I don't think the party should just appeal to identity groups betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #93
I certainly agree that we should not JUST appeal to identity groups, but pampango Apr 2015 #94
I never said the republican party opposes being reactionary betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #96
Except when they oppose the TPP which is supported by the "economic reactionary" Obama (and Hillary) pampango Apr 2015 #97
Since Obama is winning with most of GOP backing him and the Democrats opposed betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #98
Glad you're back. Here you go: pampango Apr 2015 #99
The first poll was taken along time ago before most would have heard of TPP betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #101
No. The first was done 5 months ago. Your knowledge of who had heard of TPP and pampango Apr 2015 #103
He can't win with only people who self identify liberal democrats betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #105
Democrats lost white working class men in the 1980s, sufrommich Apr 2015 #29
coincidence it happened along with passage of civil rights laws JI7 Apr 2015 #30
The woman's rights movement too. Here's an interesting article sufrommich Apr 2015 #35
I cited the union hard hat violence against anti-war protesters the other day Fumesucker Apr 2015 #44
Well,I'm 58,female and worked a blue collar job which was sufrommich Apr 2015 #50
Eh, I'm a white male, older than you and blue collar Fumesucker Apr 2015 #57
This posts "ruins" a perfectly good stereotype! Cosmic Kitten Apr 2015 #79
This is what it was coincident with. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #106
Since the Nixon campaign of 1968. hifiguy Apr 2015 #40
Very true.nt sufrommich Apr 2015 #41
This message was self-deleted by its author Ken Burch Apr 2015 #46
I think you replied to the wrong person. hifiguy Apr 2015 #47
Oh shit, you're right. Will delete there and re-post in response to the other poster. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #52
No problem hifiguy Apr 2015 #54
And HRC used a very Nixon-like strategy to win white working-class voters in the late '08 primaries. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #53
That particular fact seems to have been swept into a space warp hifiguy Apr 2015 #56
Her appeal wasn't to the working class though it was to mild racists. n/t betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #74
I always like these kind of OP's upaloopa Apr 2015 #28
I know. Kinda feels like we're unwanted. Comrade Grumpy Apr 2015 #111
Yeah, saves me the effort! Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #130
You get white working class voters by talking about class and to fight corporate power. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #45
Murdoch et al have been very effective in brainwashing white males n2doc Apr 2015 #58
It all comes down to this, (I swiped this graphic from napkinz) hifiguy Apr 2015 #63
Yep. White males are the all-purpose foil. Man of a thousand stereotypes. Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #131
I am a middle-aged white guy and have known so many others hifiguy Apr 2015 #132
One side says "blame these people." The other says "You stupid asshole." Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #134
I think what motivates them to vote R sadoldgirl Apr 2015 #60
What percentage of them Trajano Apr 2015 #70
Well said, sadoldgirl. Their motivation is fear: fear of change, fear of the "other" pampango Apr 2015 #77
The republicans are motivated by that. Working class white is not the same thing n/t betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #85
Agreed. Although republicans use fear of 'others' to attract the votes of working class whites. pampango Apr 2015 #91
You push radical, rightwing "free trade" here day and night. To you, the "others" are American workers Romulox Apr 2015 #113
Nice to see you around, Romulox. I see your preference for discussing policies not posters pampango Apr 2015 #116
I can't return that sentiment. Romulox Apr 2015 #140
I didn't think you could. That's OK. n/t pampango Apr 2015 #141
Teachers HockeyMom Apr 2015 #62
How about just concentrating on the working class period? Democrats have abandoned all liberal_at_heart Apr 2015 #89
This is what has happened to the wages of working class men. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #102
The party of NAFTA, TPP, Bank bailouts wonders WHYOWHY won't the poor vote for us??? Romulox Apr 2015 #112
Opposing free trade agreement would bring some white working class males back in. hollowdweller Apr 2015 #114
Yup. n/t lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #149
Newp DonCoquixote Apr 2015 #151
Is your entire political world view predicated on a sexual/racial stereotype? lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #154
no DonCoquixote Apr 2015 #155
Sounds to me like the white working class abandoned the Democratic Party, not the other way around philosslayer Apr 2015 #124
The "white working class" knows it is hated by many in the Party. It acts accordingly. nt Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #129
That is evolving rapidly, thanks to Occupy Wall St. that got the ball rolling on CTyankee Apr 2015 #135
I hope you're right. The "old" labor movement grew out of dissatisfaction with what passed Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #145
I'm right here, I'm not so sure about this article. Rex Apr 2015 #136
Remember that this demographic was hit the hardest in the recent economic recession davidn3600 Apr 2015 #139
Democratic leaders need to realize what a beating white working class males have taken for 40 years Warpy Apr 2015 #152
Economic inequality - TBF Apr 2015 #153
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