General Discussion

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)

231. I don't think that's a relevant comparison.

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 04:20 PM

Apr 2015

In my case, I'm speaking of a candidate for office or an elected official that has participated in or supports government action that is exceptionally problematic. When considering the fitness or unfitness of said candidate/official, it's prudent to consider all of their policy positions and determine if, on the whole, those positions merit support of the politician.

I assume you are referring to Julian Assange, which presents an entirely different question. Assange is not a candidate or official, he is simply a person who obtained leaked information and made it available to the media. The central question is: is the availability of this information a good thing or a bad thing? Unrelated criminal charges against the person who obtained and presented the information is irrelevant to answering the question.

If a poster suggests that the Wikileaks information is erroneous or unimportant, and uses the rape charges against Assange as the reason, then it is simply logical to respond with "that doesn't matter - the information should stand or fall on its own merits." What often occurs in these exchanges is a diversion of the central argument from "the Wikileaks information is important" to "Julian Assange is a rapist." Both arguments can be true, but one is not related to the other.

Posters that argue that bringing up Assange's criminal charges as a refutation of Wikileaks information is irrelevant and illogical are correct, and it does not follow that they defend Assange's actions.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

309 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

A shout out to "social issues" [View all] BainsBane Apr 2015 OP

K freaking R. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #1

I have gotten the impression around here that only economics matter in this election. leftofcool Apr 2015 #2

Not just economics BainsBane Apr 2015 #6

That keep us in an inferior economic sitation by ignorning our humanity and they dismiss us. n/t freshwest Apr 2015 #22

Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #162

Shutting down the government and/or defaulting on the debt ala Cruz, is a direct transfer of wage freshwest Apr 2015 #171

Given that the country is on the tipping point of sliding into a modern form of hifiguy Apr 2015 #148

+1. K & R this Post. appalachiablue Apr 2015 #300

Only winning matters. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #245

my real life is smack in the middle of the economic issue. though it is right up there, why i chose seabeyond Apr 2015 #248

I didn't say anything about gender. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #249

jack, you have told us women and gays and blacks are the blame for the loss of the white male in our seabeyond Apr 2015 #251

prove it. Just one link. nt lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #253

after the last election, you went into a spiel. many of us saw it. not gonna hunt it down. seabeyond Apr 2015 #254

I've had my fill of you telling DU what I think. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #255

did you not state that women and gays were the reason white men are not a part of our party? seabeyond Apr 2015 #258

It's your assertion to prove. Google up. n/t lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #259

that's how Hillary started her campaign hfojvt Apr 2015 #295

A few links please? MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #3

Come on Manny, you've been here long enough to know they have appeared now and then... AuntPatsy Apr 2015 #8

Not as I understand the meaning of "derision". nt MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #10

Derision. AuntPatsy Apr 2015 #13

That's my understanding of the word, as well. MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #18

We agree that's good :) AuntPatsy Apr 2015 #21

... MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #23

IMHO. sheshe2 Apr 2015 #31

I missed that thread! zappaman Apr 2015 #61

I so love zappaman! sheshe2 Apr 2015 #63

No, you got yourself hidden in that one. n/t Scootaloo Apr 2015 #84

I doubt mr. goldman will bestir himself to reply to you. BlancheSplanchnik Apr 2015 #180

Bains Op is exceptional. sheshe2 Apr 2015 #187

awwwww...... BlancheSplanchnik Apr 2015 #188

Social issues are more likely to be ignored daredtowork Apr 2015 #35

Do not.... sheshe2 Apr 2015 #64

That's why I ignored the comment nt. BainsBane Apr 2015 #77

I know it's hard JustAnotherGen Apr 2015 #95

Thanks JAG... sheshe2 Apr 2015 #130

the OP does not seem to know what social issues are hfojvt Apr 2015 #297

Sure. Just site search "gefilte fish"...nt SidDithers Apr 2015 #92

Oh yeah....nt msanthrope Apr 2015 #149

no one is gonna bother manny. too many of us know, have seen, participated. it is not about you seabeyond Apr 2015 #118

Exactly BainsBane Apr 2015 #141

I don't see derision. qwlauren35 Apr 2015 #267

kick Liberal_in_LA Apr 2015 #4

and just about all of them are connected to our economic situation JI7 Apr 2015 #5

...! KoKo Apr 2015 #100

yep. Phlem Apr 2015 #163

Thank You Mnpaul Apr 2015 #184

Please explain. Sheepshank Apr 2015 #235

Easy to explain Mnpaul Apr 2015 #247

better throw in health care issue if you are discussing cost of bc. $37-$162 a month. seabeyond Apr 2015 #250

If minimum wage went up at the same rate as exec. pay Mnpaul Apr 2015 #257

no. something so rudimentary to womens health should only be thru our health insurance. seabeyond Apr 2015 #273

Post removed Post removed Apr 2015 #278

i am PAYING for the fuckin HEALTH insurance. really dude? seabeyond Apr 2015 #279

others paying for my birth control? what part of that is not RW? seabeyond Apr 2015 #280

I want, I want, I want Mnpaul Apr 2015 #282

you have made your position clear. seabeyond Apr 2015 #283

and you want to continue to avoid the questions Mnpaul Apr 2015 #285

my position is mercuryblues Apr 2015 #286

So your prescription coverage covers all other drugs Mnpaul Apr 2015 #288

I have never mercuryblues Apr 2015 #290

Prescription cost reform was taken off the table by the 1% Mnpaul Apr 2015 #291

the problem mercuryblues Apr 2015 #293

What you decry is part of ACA BainsBane Apr 2015 #287

You got it Mnpaul Apr 2015 #289

You're all over the map BainsBane Apr 2015 #303

Your pretense is absolute. LanternWaste Apr 2015 #304

Just voted on a jury and I beloieve you will be done in this thread quite shortly. trumad Apr 2015 #296

You are more clearly explaining that there is a symbiotic Social vs Economic hand shake Sheepshank Apr 2015 #261

The lack of one does lead to need for the other Mnpaul Apr 2015 #262

you were attempting to minimize the social aspect of this and that is a fallacy n/t Sheepshank Apr 2015 #264

Don't tell what I was trying to do Mnpaul Apr 2015 #265

That sounds like free market er ismnotwasm Apr 2015 #305

Nope, not even close. qwlauren35 Apr 2015 #268

I said "many of these issues" Mnpaul Apr 2015 #269

But that's just it. qwlauren35 Apr 2015 #281

But if you don't deal with the economic issues Mnpaul Apr 2015 #284

33% is not most. qwlauren35 Apr 2015 #292

I'm guessing that you don't work in manufacturing Mnpaul Apr 2015 #294

That was a learning experience. qwlauren35 Apr 2015 #298

K&R for being absolutely right... giftedgirl77 Apr 2015 #7

+1 lovemydog Apr 2015 #57

Yes, Yes, Yes KMOD Apr 2015 #9

I have not seen anyone against these things PowerToThePeople Apr 2015 #11

They have said they don't matter BainsBane Apr 2015 #30

"some have said" G_j Apr 2015 #56

these people use that tactic. PowerToThePeople Apr 2015 #66

So now I'm Fox? BainsBane Apr 2015 #74

The reactions in this thread BainsBane Apr 2015 #73

Seen it here hundreds of times- in GD and in the hosts forum unfortunately- bettyellen Apr 2015 #115

we have linked to them. you arent paying attention, but enough of us have seen it. we will not seabeyond Apr 2015 #119

I read the front page of GD a couple times a day PowerToThePeople Apr 2015 #175

i realy do not give a rats ass what you call. enough people have read it, heard it and call it bs. seabeyond Apr 2015 #181

My choice G_j Apr 2015 #241

cool. i am not wasting the time linking. you are not wasting the time hunting it down. i get that. seabeyond Apr 2015 #243

absolutely...its those very same "someones" Sheepshank Apr 2015 #233

i watched it be denied in a very thread it was happening, and being pointed out and argued. seabeyond Apr 2015 #238

I haven't either. A well balanced agenda is critical. Social issues and economic issues are Zorra Apr 2015 #42

YES! Bernie covers all the bases. PowerToThePeople Apr 2015 #67

Okay, let's play this out BainsBane Apr 2015 #78

I don't think the poster said ANYTHING about excluding the rest of government tkmorris Apr 2015 #106

No, he didn't say excluding the rest of government BainsBane Apr 2015 #121

Huge K&R R B Garr Apr 2015 #12

Yes! betsuni Apr 2015 #14

Indeed! KMOD Apr 2015 #43

This message was self-deleted by its author jeff47 Apr 2015 #15

Can't 'be quiet while people whose basic civil rights aren't threatened by a GOP administration...' freshwest Apr 2015 #16

May be I am wrong, but sadoldgirl Apr 2015 #17

Bing! nt MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #20

abortion rights have come under restrictions, in indiana a woman was charged and convicted JI7 Apr 2015 #26

That is terrible, and I hope that she can repeal this to FC. sadoldgirl Apr 2015 #38

Your wrong... AuntPatsy Apr 2015 #36

If it "doesn't cost much to support reproductive rights" BainsBane Apr 2015 #44

Sorry, I don't mean to offend you. sadoldgirl Apr 2015 #53

In that example you give BainsBane Apr 2015 #76

Thank you. qwlauren35 Apr 2015 #270

Why are they under attack? To give you something to fight over and to fight for that doesn't stillwaiting Apr 2015 #94

why are womens issues under attack? cause men have controlled women from beginning of time. seabeyond Apr 2015 #122

Bingo. Candidates who are right-wing economically use social issues as a cloak LittleBlue Apr 2015 #60

It costs nothing? Bluenorthwest Apr 2015 #116

Your definition of cost needs more serious thought. Supporting these rights cost many lives. freshwest Apr 2015 #80

Well said, fresh.. thank you for that thoughful response! Cha Apr 2015 #82

TY. Just focused on priorities, is all. n/t freshwest Apr 2015 #83

Exactly.. for the health of our fellow human beings. Like Bains in the OP.. Global Climate Change! Cha Apr 2015 #86

Over 600,000 Americans have died of HIV/AIDS. The first 30,000 without so much as a word of concern Bluenorthwest Apr 2015 #98

+1. .... and i remember. to dismiss. so callously. how offensive is this. nt seabeyond Apr 2015 #125

+2 nomorenomore08 Apr 2015 #204

gosh, i cannot believe this shit on a democratic board. that we have to live this shit, within our seabeyond Apr 2015 #124

Brava, freshwest! sheshe2 Apr 2015 #133

Beautifully stated BainsBane Apr 2015 #135

What a bunch of privileged hooey. Discrimination against LGBT and women have cost both groups Bluenorthwest Apr 2015 #97

Nailed it...again...repeatedly thought this thread. Behind the Aegis Apr 2015 #142

Great post Depaysement Apr 2015 #177

Holy Shit! sheshe2 Apr 2015 #19

Bing... N/t obnoxiousdrunk Apr 2015 #28

I love her ability to put into words what I feel. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #29

What you said! n/t betsuni Apr 2015 #32

You forgot I think single payer health insurance sadoldgirl Apr 2015 #24

Unfortunately, polling data doesn't support your assertion BainsBane Apr 2015 #34

The problem is that sadoldgirl Apr 2015 #39

It's called capitalism BainsBane Apr 2015 #45

Thanks for the tip, but sadoldgirl Apr 2015 #49

I admire your tactful reply to snark. ND-Dem Apr 2015 #50

Good for you BainsBane Apr 2015 #72

Supply side isn't Capitalism. AgingAmerican Apr 2015 #144

Oh my gosh BainsBane Apr 2015 #146

No, the polling data says the 99% don't *think* single payer is important to them.. Fumesucker Apr 2015 #40

,You are quite correct,and I apologize, sadoldgirl Apr 2015 #46

It sucks. I agree BainsBane Apr 2015 #47

Depends on which poll and how questions are asked. There are plenty of polls out there ND-Dem Apr 2015 #51

Right at the beginning of the ACA negotiations, polls showed 77% in favor of single payer. Maedhros Apr 2015 #277

Zat so? ND-Dem Apr 2015 #48

The poster said 99 percent BainsBane Apr 2015 #75

You know when I first started attending demonstrations against health insurers and governments Bluenorthwest Apr 2015 #99

A right and rightous post, BB. brer cat Apr 2015 #25

Indeed. n.t Iris Apr 2015 #185

Yes if only the non-governing elite would get out of politics and let the governing elite Rex Apr 2015 #27

Don't ya know? It's all about the money! Behind the Aegis Apr 2015 #33

That is how I see it BainsBane Apr 2015 #37

The number of Bircher media references show that, Bain. TY for the awesome OP. n/t freshwest Apr 2015 #151

Hey, the chickens being danced on by the elephants should quit sqauwking so loud. It's aggravating! freshwest Apr 2015 #170

A-freaking-men, sister. That is a righteous rant. Hekate Apr 2015 #41

And how are our social interests served by running a candidate with deep corporate debt appointed, whereisjustice Apr 2015 #52

There is a primary BainsBane Apr 2015 #54

+ 1,000 Iliyah Apr 2015 #55

My State's Primary election is over a year in the future. It's insulting to the people to claim an Bluenorthwest Apr 2015 #101

Nope. qwlauren35 Apr 2015 #271

As you point out very well, BB lovemydog Apr 2015 #58

Don't you mean "minor issues"? zappaman Apr 2015 #59

If someone supports Reaganomics, they are conservative. Period LittleBlue Apr 2015 #62

True, but Warren isn't running BainsBane Apr 2015 #69

Obama: More Moderate Republican Than Socialist AgingAmerican Apr 2015 #137

I agree BainsBane Apr 2015 #138

we aren't AgingAmerican Apr 2015 #143

+1000 smirkymonkey Apr 2015 #65

I don't think economic issues and so-called "social issues" are really separate Cheese Sandwich Apr 2015 #68

They really are separate. qwlauren35 Apr 2015 #272

I've seen that brush off to "Social Issues" you're talking about, BB. Thank you so much Cha Apr 2015 #70

dishonest list cali Apr 2015 #71

Oh dayum....great post!! Cali_Democrat Apr 2015 #79

Rec JustAnotherGen Apr 2015 #81

That's a hell of a lot of list padding eridani Apr 2015 #85

Yeah, that was the point BainsBane Apr 2015 #88

Still, I expect more of Democrats than that they should be Republicans who are good on social issues eridani Apr 2015 #91

The largest reform to Social Security ever won by a people's movement is the extension of spousal Bluenorthwest Apr 2015 #105

These issues are not separate. 99Forever Apr 2015 #87

The point of the OP is that they are not separate BainsBane Apr 2015 #89

Grinding poverty is... 99Forever Apr 2015 #90

Equalizer except that in this case equal means 'minorities have twice as much poverty as whites' Bluenorthwest Apr 2015 #107

The Democrats are far better at helping the poor than the GOP BainsBane Apr 2015 #131

shot in the back. shot in the back. how many times do we see this, while being told, doesnt matter seabeyond Apr 2015 #132

More accurately... 99Forever Apr 2015 #145

Indeed it does BainsBane Apr 2015 #150

Of course poverty sucks for anyone who is poor, but your contention was that poverty equalizes Bluenorthwest Apr 2015 #156

This is the kind of BainsBane Apr 2015 #167

K&R Bobbie Jo Apr 2015 #93

I agree. Those who do this rest on a fabricated set of laurels boston bean Apr 2015 #96

This. Bobbie Jo Apr 2015 #104

Exactly. betsuni Apr 2015 #110

That really is about the extent of it BainsBane Apr 2015 #139

Thank you! Tarheel_Dem Apr 2015 #168

A big K&R! William769 Apr 2015 #102

DUrec...nt SidDithers Apr 2015 #103

Listing something means New Democrats have done well at it? I wish. merrily Apr 2015 #108

Hard to imagine anyone whining about your OP, BB.. It's excellent. Cha Apr 2015 #109

Thanks, Cha BainsBane Apr 2015 #127

K & R!! thucythucy Apr 2015 #111

I see economic issues blithely dismissed here IN FAVOR OF social issues. As if we should not djean111 Apr 2015 #112

If you read my OP BainsBane Apr 2015 #120

Excellent OP ismnotwasm Apr 2015 #113

Kick Bobbie Jo Apr 2015 #114

yes. this. thank baines. yes, democrats that dismiss ALL of this. so much the part of our seabeyond Apr 2015 #117

they call it populist reform BainsBane Apr 2015 #147

Hillary has a good record on many Social issues. I have never seen anyone say that derisively. Autumn Apr 2015 #123

K & R. n/t FSogol Apr 2015 #126

I think that one of the most damaging myths in politics is in fact the separability of 'economic' LeftishBrit Apr 2015 #128

Very well said BainsBane Apr 2015 #129

Kick! sheshe2 Apr 2015 #134

this thread took a while for me to get thru. getting thru elevated my ... anger. seabeyond Apr 2015 #136

The ostrich syndrome. Behind the Aegis Apr 2015 #140

Economic Justice is a social issue. Maedhros Apr 2015 #152

and social justice is an economic issue BainsBane Apr 2015 #165

Yet when Democrats openly participate in direct attacks on the Constitution - Maedhros Apr 2015 #169

No, I don't think you should accept any of that BainsBane Apr 2015 #223

I don't think that's a relevant comparison. Maedhros Apr 2015 #231

I think some of the Wikileaks information has been very important BainsBane Apr 2015 #236

I, for one, would not argue that Wikileaks should exempt Assange from prosecution. Maedhros Apr 2015 #237

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2015 #153

cheering rubio in another post on a democratic site. maybe free republic is more your site. nt seabeyond Apr 2015 #157

They don't like gay people over at Free Republic cyberswede Apr 2015 #159

Very well written, as usual. Especially when you wrote: guillaumeb Apr 2015 #154

True BainsBane Apr 2015 #155

Only the concerns of the rich are considered. guillaumeb Apr 2015 #158

By mirroring priorities BainsBane Apr 2015 #160

I understood your meaning but wished to add my point. guillaumeb Apr 2015 #161

Democrats aren't very good on social issues... MellowDem Apr 2015 #164

My point is that the distinction between social and economic is false BainsBane Apr 2015 #166

Yes us poor democrats need to shut up workinclasszero Apr 2015 #172

as this very op points out DonCoquixote Apr 2015 #173

pull funds from the Democratic Party? BainsBane Apr 2015 #174

Senate Democrats PowerToThePeople Apr 2015 #176

No when several firms threatened not to donate to Dems, DonCoquixote Apr 2015 #183

ABSOLUTELY! LeftishBrit Apr 2015 #207

(NSFW) the OP may fuss about being called (or candidates being called) corpo sellouts while being MisterP Apr 2015 #178

spot on - as someone pointed out to me recently, social justice and economic justice are linked, you whereisjustice Apr 2015 #186

Which is the fucking point of the OP BainsBane Apr 2015 #195

You missed the point completely BainsBane Apr 2015 #189

Amen to that. guillaumeb Apr 2015 #196

I attribute some of that to the power of national mythology BainsBane Apr 2015 #200

And the middle classes are the most insecure and sensitive about themselves. betsuni Apr 2015 #201

Of course the thing about the US is BainsBane Apr 2015 #202

the middle class is also vulnerable to falling guillaumeb Apr 2015 #208

17 yr old son being taught economics from a old white rw. for the first time, seabeyond Apr 2015 #216

I have an uncontrollable urge to count the number of times "corporatist" and "oligarch" betsuni Apr 2015 #198

Me too, in regard to Marx BainsBane Apr 2015 #199

The people living on Planet Me call themselves Libertarians. guillaumeb Apr 2015 #209

+1 Marr Apr 2015 #192

k and r + a gazillion niyad Apr 2015 #179

pre-K education too :-) progree Apr 2015 #182

Yes! BainsBane Apr 2015 #190

I see you are familiar with the below thread :D progree Apr 2015 #197

Uh, it was centrists who urged gays to shut-up about marriage equality, because it Marr Apr 2015 #191

Another one who completely missed the point BainsBane Apr 2015 #193

No, I understand you're hiding behind poor people. It's hardly a new trick. Marr Apr 2015 #194

You have no fucking idea what you're talking about BainsBane Apr 2015 #203

+1000 nomorenomore08 Apr 2015 #205

Hit a nerve? Marr Apr 2015 #210

What hits a nerve for me is seeing the things I struggle for justiceischeap Apr 2015 #211

Sorry if you suddenly have a problem with the term 'social issue', but... Marr Apr 2015 #212

Who established the definition of 'social issue' and when did it come into being? justiceischeap Apr 2015 #213

This is pathetic. Like when the same crowd tried to pretend that "Third Way" was a conspiracy term. Marr Apr 2015 #214

Again, when was this phrase coined and by whom? justiceischeap Apr 2015 #215

Silly semantic games, to blur the definition of 'left'. Marr Apr 2015 #225

An ecomonic issue is an issue about your money or your job. A social issue is an issue about my Bluenorthwest Apr 2015 #218

exactly BainsBane Apr 2015 #220

No, that is not what I'm saying. Marr Apr 2015 #224

And you're missing the fact that somewhere along the line, someone decided justiceischeap Apr 2015 #229

Don't even go there. Marr Apr 2015 #230

I agree. qwlauren35 Apr 2015 #275

He isn't using a standard definition BainsBane Apr 2015 #222

No, you're using social wedge issues to sell a Wall Street hack as a liberal. Marr Apr 2015 #226

social wedge issues.... there you go again, lol. as justice just pointed this out to you. seabeyond Apr 2015 #239

"My Wall Street issue"? Marr Apr 2015 #242

your wallstreet issue trumps. i am also not only on your side, but that is a huge issue for me also seabeyond Apr 2015 #244

You're the one who's willing to drop one, not me. Marr Apr 2015 #246

show me where i am not all for a vigorous primary, or that i am even a clinton supporter. seabeyond Apr 2015 #252

The OP is not defending any politician BainsBane Apr 2015 #219

Oh, give me a break. There's a reason this thread is filled with cheering Hillary fans. Marr Apr 2015 #227

many of us are not clinton supporters, though calling the cheering fans allows you to dismiss ALL seabeyond Apr 2015 #240

No posters (okay, not many) have ever said that Clinton is the answer to all that ails us. nomorenomore08 Apr 2015 #309

Well said BainsBane Apr 2015 #217

Not even close. BainsBane Apr 2015 #221

"Tired obsession with the DLC and your idiotic political labels'. Marr Apr 2015 #228

WOW. qwlauren35 Apr 2015 #274

A perfect example of why I still vote Democrat. nomorenomore08 Apr 2015 #206

I've never and will never understand the attempt to marginalize social issues. Sheepshank Apr 2015 #232

Particularly since it's an exclusionary view BainsBane Apr 2015 #234

If I am a white, straight, protestant male, and I am not particularly worried about anyone but NoJusticeNoPeace Apr 2015 #256

Or create false dichotomies between "economic issues" and "social issues" while placing the latter nomorenomore08 Apr 2015 #260

yes. lol, simple enough. not going ot back of the bus. i will stand right up front seabeyond Apr 2015 #263

Economic populism and social justice go hand in hand. nomorenomore08 Apr 2015 #306

Social issues are important - very important - as they are at their core human rights issues. hifiguy Apr 2015 #302

I just said it was a false dichotomy. Like I said to sea, economic populism and social justice are nomorenomore08 Apr 2015 #307

I'm glad to see this. qwlauren35 Apr 2015 #266

Great post--I'm a fan of "social programs." I think the government can do a lot of good in that MADem Apr 2015 #276

And we all know which party is more likely to drastically cut the very services people depend on. nomorenomore08 Apr 2015 #308

. trumad Apr 2015 #299

Well done BainsBane Apr 2015 #301