General Discussion

LynneSin

(95,337 posts)

220. To be honest you shouldn't

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 05:37 PM

Apr 2015

If this country did things the right way it would be rare.

If we provided proper sex education for women
If we provide free birth control as part of their healthcare plan
If we made Plan B birth control available over the counter
If we made Family Planning affordable for all women to attend

If these things were done you'd naturally find the number of of abortions would decrease. States where many or all of these things are already done tend to have a lower rate of pregnancies ending in abortions than those that withhold sex education, free birth control and Plan B. There is overwhelming evidence that points to the fact that states that teach 'Abstinence Only' in the school have a higher rate of teenage pregnancy than those that do not.

Plan B is the emergency contraceptive that if taken within 24-48 hours of unprotective sex can prevent a pregnancy. I also think that should be made available for women who have been raped. Why should a woman have to worry about if a rapist got her pregnant.

And as for affordable family planning that is to ensure that women get proper healthcare during pregnancy so that there is a better chance that the child they have will be delivered healthy. But Family Planning clinics can also provide other forms of long-term birth control that have less chance of failure such as IUD and injection (less chance of forgetting to take a pill).

So the 'Safe, legal and rare' has always made sense to me because done right means that women have plenty of options to ensure that they don't end up in a position where they must decide if they want an abortion. Lack of options means more abortions.

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Hillary Clinton Answer On Abortion Leaves 'Pro-Life' Senator Speechless [View all] kpete Apr 2015 OP

Safe, legal and rare... haikugal Apr 2015 #1

rare feels blamey to me elehhhhna Apr 2015 #2

I agree elehhhhna. nt haikugal Apr 2015 #14

Triangulating. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #229

Triangulating... haikugal Apr 2015 #230

Yup. That phrasing has always given me an uneasy feeling. hifiguy Apr 2015 #41

Agreed Lunabell Apr 2015 #47

To me it implies that women should have effective means of family planning csziggy Apr 2015 #53

That's my take, too. silverweb Apr 2015 #63

Yes...quibbling over rare when it means education..... Historic NY Apr 2015 #78

Agree. brer cat Apr 2015 #149

Off topic, but... silverweb Apr 2015 #151

lol brer cat Apr 2015 #155

Tell me about it! silverweb Apr 2015 #173

ding ding ding we have a winner arely staircase Apr 2015 #187

And yet despite everything abortions are still needed DrKZ Apr 2015 #195

We agree in part. silverweb Apr 2015 #198

exactly qazplm Apr 2015 #65

Excuse me? REP Apr 2015 #86

of course. but it still reduces with education, birthcontrol, family planning. which is the only seabeyond Apr 2015 #92

We disagree REP Apr 2015 #140

I think it works for all surgery. stevenleser Apr 2015 #180

No, it doesn't. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #188

You're forcing the issue. The statement stands on its own. Nt stevenleser Apr 2015 #210

Goddamn right I'm forcing the issue. And I'll keep forcing it. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #211

You are a righteous bad ass. Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #212

Post removed Post removed Apr 2015 #105

The abortion rate in Sweden is higher than the U.S. Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #163

yes. and she was so clear on it. so how do people ignore her words to focus on one word.... seabeyond Apr 2015 #68

because the use of that one word is a problem Scootaloo Apr 2015 #111

i disagree. i think she fliped it around and said clearly why it was flipped around. seabeyond Apr 2015 #116

As soon as I hear about people being stigmatized for getting thier knee repaired, sure Scootaloo Apr 2015 #123

i adamantly disagree with you. i get you. cause i react the same with that word. seabeyond Apr 2015 #126

Okay Scootaloo Apr 2015 #127

Perfectly said, thank you. nt F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #152

The phrase was removed from the party platform years ago. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #154

Because too many people awoke_in_2003 Apr 2015 #115

Wholly untrue. I support Hillary and hope she stops using that phrase. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #133

I'm sorry, Nikki... awoke_in_2003 Apr 2015 #147

Even in agreement with Hillary over an issue treestar Apr 2015 #120

i am not a supporter, though listening to du the last week is making me more so. i had never heard seabeyond Apr 2015 #122

There are Hilary supporters here who feel this is a problem. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #156

i think we are kneejerking. i reacted immediately also. then continued to listen. i feel seabeyond Apr 2015 #159

oh, hogwash. I've taken issue with that phrase for years. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #162

as have i and clearly stated repeatedly. not a new rant for me. pretty important to me, too. nt seabeyond Apr 2015 #164

Clear to the left, exactly. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #166

here you go PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #168

That's the one. Thank you. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #172

Agreed RecoveringJournalist Apr 2015 #106

Are you implying that those of us who are saying "abortion on demand" are not.. haikugal Apr 2015 #138

Not even close RecoveringJournalist Apr 2015 #214

It should be as easy as taking a pill... haikugal Apr 2015 #215

Gotcha RecoveringJournalist Apr 2015 #217

We'll you've explained yourself clearly and for that I thank you, haikugal Apr 2015 #218

You're welcome RecoveringJournalist Apr 2015 #242

Don't hear the phrase "safe, legal, and rare" to describe any medical procedures for men. kairos12 Apr 2015 #64

Yes, why say rare? As if something's wrong with having an abortion. It should be safe, legal, affordable and available on demand... InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2015 #103

+1 F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #157

Men don't have an equivalent procedure treestar Apr 2015 #121

you can damn well bet if there is an alternative to prostate surgery they go for it, ... oh wait. seabeyond Apr 2015 #125

I agree as well with your post AuntPatsy Apr 2015 #101

It's a concession to the people who think women have their uterus hoovered every weekend Scootaloo Apr 2015 #109

i dont see it as a concession at all. the opposite. nt seabeyond Apr 2015 #113

in no way did she mean that right wing theme about unwanted children treestar Apr 2015 #119

Feels "empowered" to me....like "rare because a woman should have control over her circumstances, MADem Apr 2015 #139

Exactly! 'Rare' to me means women have choices so they never have to consider abortion LynneSin Apr 2015 #221

Both Sweden and Denmark have abortion rates higher than the U.S. They have oodles of education Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #226

You've articulated my POV on this issue better than I ever could. MADem Apr 2015 #238

Agree 100%. Should be "safe, legal and accessible" Maven Apr 2015 #148

Rare is what happens when you have good education and access to birth control bhikkhu Apr 2015 #216

I see your side TlalocW Apr 2015 #3

I like the term because DURHAM D Apr 2015 #4

Of course that is the full context of what she is saying. still_one Apr 2015 #7

We will always need abortion, always.. haikugal Apr 2015 #9

You seem to be looking for a fight. DURHAM D Apr 2015 #12

Why do you say that? haikugal Apr 2015 #18

Yes, I agree, shouldn't concede anything to the right that helps their cause to deny women the right to choose. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2015 #107

doesn't the word rare qazplm Apr 2015 #66

No. It's unnecessary and implies there is something wrong with abortion. nt haikugal Apr 2015 #75

here's the thing though... druidity33 Apr 2015 #184

Hillary just did not mean that treestar Apr 2015 #124

It's a concession to the right to soften her position. haikugal Apr 2015 #137

If those jackasses brer cat Apr 2015 #153

Exactly. nt okaawhatever Apr 2015 #11

I hate it. It prioritizes abortion as a political issue over the health and needs of women. Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #31

Thank you. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #32

VERY well said. hifiguy Apr 2015 #43

An excellent discussion of that word 'rare' and why it is used. Thx. nt Nay Apr 2015 #52

I would think any medical procedure qazplm Apr 2015 #67

Abortion is the sole medical procedure that is described as so icky that it ought to be rare. Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #73

why? should it be rare? it is costly, invasive, stressful. wouldnt you rather NOT get preg seabeyond Apr 2015 #74

Should knee replacement surgery be rare? Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #84

if there are preventative alternatives? fuck ya. nt seabeyond Apr 2015 #85

and nowhere was i arguing stress and pain level between abortion and giving birth. seabeyond Apr 2015 #88

I'm glad you were able to find the help you needed. haikugal Apr 2015 #141

Everything undesirable to go through should be as rare as possible treestar Apr 2015 #128

I really don't think anyone is attacking Hillary. nt haikugal Apr 2015 #145

I have disliked the use of the word since I first heard it in 2005. It has nothing to do with Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #161

That's interesting. haikugal Apr 2015 #203

If they can find a way to do microsurgery that makes knee replacement surgery unnneccessary, hell MADem Apr 2015 #142

Thanks. nt F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #158

+1 Fridays Child Apr 2015 #33

Rare implies "last resort" and thus "bad". jeff47 Apr 2015 #34

or, with family planning and other measures, they will not be needed at the same rate. nt seabeyond Apr 2015 #72

It does not. treestar Apr 2015 #135

And why not have abortion happen a lot? Because it is bad. (nt) jeff47 Apr 2015 #136

Yes. northoftheborder Apr 2015 #46

Exactly. It's not a concession, it's saying open up family planning options and stevenleser Apr 2015 #181

It should be rare. With contraception and family planning there would be less. Sure, there will be still_one Apr 2015 #5

Rare because there is family planning, as in birth control being available. If there isn't Thinkingabout Apr 2015 #6

Yes, and of course there are the criminal and health related aspects why it needs to be legal. Rape, still_one Apr 2015 #8

I totally agree, especially a young girl and in cases of incest, a young victim of rape should not Thinkingabout Apr 2015 #16

There are no "especially" cases for any female who wants to have an abortion... Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #232

I understand what you say, my point was and is a young girl should not be punished further after Thinkingabout Apr 2015 #233

We don't agree often but we agree on this. Cheers to us! Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #235

Rare = accessible contraception and family planning. JaneyVee Apr 2015 #10

With education, family planning, and good birth control, abortions will be rare. Agnosticsherbet Apr 2015 #13

Sweden has all that and its abortion rate is higher than the U.S. Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #165

This can't be stressed enough Novara Apr 2015 #236

Yes! Abortion is a moral and positive choice that that liberates women, saves lives, and protects PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #237

Because it speaks to the need for CONTRACEPTION. KittyWampus Apr 2015 #15

then say abortion and contraception should be safe, legal and available to all elehhhhna Apr 2015 #79

I disagree. Abortion is a last resort because it's invasive and has risks. Other options nolabear Apr 2015 #17

It's far far safer than carrying a child to term and delivery. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #20

Absolutely! nt haikugal Apr 2015 #23

There's no way Hillary means that as the option treestar Apr 2015 #129

I get that. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #132

Well yes, but we're talking about alternatives to that. nolabear Apr 2015 #167

Rare to you is never? PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #169

I can't figure out why you're arguing with me. nolabear Apr 2015 #170

We're discussing. It's a discussion board, no? PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #171

In 2005, Hillary also floated the notion of never... Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #199

Yeah, that's 100% bullshit PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #200

I hope you're right.. haikugal Apr 2015 #22

it would not be a last resort for me fizzgig Apr 2015 #69

It wasn't "last resort" for me REP Apr 2015 #87

I had an IUD placed 6 weeks after giving birth to my one and only child. haikugal Apr 2015 #143

I didn't read it that way at all. nolabear Apr 2015 #174

you and i share the same wish fizzgig Apr 2015 #175

Crazy medium, the Internet. But we're totally going to figure it out. nolabear Apr 2015 #209

I agree and say so often. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #19

Thanks for the links PN... haikugal Apr 2015 #25

Amen. I adore that reply of LeftyMom's. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #26

You can use that argument to increase access to contraception. iandhr Apr 2015 #24

Reduce to what? Rare is a relative term which means very different things to different people. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #28

I agree with you. iandhr Apr 2015 #29

Except the far right also believes that birth control pills are abortifacients. Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #201

Yup, see Hobby Lobby. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #202

The science didn't enter the argument did it? It was all 'belief' haikugal Apr 2015 #204

It should have. It's not an abortifacient, that's a scientific fact. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #205

Which was amazing that the SC didn't use science to reach a decision ... We're toast! haikugal Apr 2015 #207

Agreed iandhr Apr 2015 #208

You hit all the salient points, well done! haikugal Apr 2015 #59

What if someone said that heart surgery should be safe, legal, and rare? enough Apr 2015 #50

If they said it while most states were simultaneously closing clinics, limiting access to it and PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #51

+1 treestar Apr 2015 #134

Exactly, or lobe-ectomies, or many other surgeries. It works for all of them. Nt stevenleser Apr 2015 #182

I think what she means by rare is by trying to lower unwanted pregnancies in the first place Marrah_G Apr 2015 #82

I think it means awoke_in_2003 Apr 2015 #114

It should be a last option treestar Apr 2015 #117

I always felt that the "rare" part wasn't blame-y xmas74 Apr 2015 #213

To be honest you shouldn't LynneSin Apr 2015 #220

kicked ass. sing it sister. ya... seabeyond Apr 2015 #21

No. Rare = stigma Novara Apr 2015 #27

Well said.. haikugal Apr 2015 #30

Yes you are correct. But there is more And yesthere is a Clinton inovlved DrKZ Apr 2015 #35

You are incorrect mcar Apr 2015 #83

LOL... haikugal Apr 2015 #89

that would be the ONLY word i had an issue with. i get it too. and i do not think she needs seabeyond Apr 2015 #36

I agree. She has a 100% rating with NARAL and 0% with the anti choice groups. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #38

she could. she does not have to. it totally makes sense how she uses it. nt seabeyond Apr 2015 #39

*I* wish she would stop using it. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #42

obviously peace, as others wish the same. again, .... me? meh. nt seabeyond Apr 2015 #44

the "rare" part also bothered me fizzgig Apr 2015 #57

No. Not at all. Effective and readily available contraception, MineralMan Apr 2015 #90

There's thinking in the anti-choice movement that women use abortion as a form of birth control justiceischeap Apr 2015 #190

k&r... spanone Apr 2015 #37

+1000 smirkymonkey Apr 2015 #40

That's the most impressed with Clinton I have ever been PinkPotus Apr 2015 #45

Welcome to DU!!! StevieM Apr 2015 #56

A good answer. ZombieHorde Apr 2015 #48

Hillary's strength is talking about issues concerning women and children. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #49

Rare isn't a value judgement ismnotwasm Apr 2015 #54

Making abortion rare will place value judgments on it. Novara Apr 2015 #60

A comprehensive goal ismnotwasm Apr 2015 #76

This. Her point is,abortion exists legal or not. sufrommich Apr 2015 #61

right. rare here is a good thing. means other solutions so not needed. seabeyond Apr 2015 #70

I think I'll hit my head with a brick ismnotwasm Apr 2015 #77

totaly fuggin blowing my mind. the more i listen, and the more i think about it, and thought seabeyond Apr 2015 #93

Well her husband said it in 1996 ismnotwasm Apr 2015 #100

And in 1996, the feminist organization that I was involved with protested Bill's use of the word. Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #176

i would have to see how bill used it. did he do it as a concession. abortions should be rare. thats seabeyond Apr 2015 #194

I agree and the reaching to make it one treestar Apr 2015 #130

K & R SunSeeker Apr 2015 #55

What most don't get Beowulf42 Apr 2015 #58

anti abortionists, rather than prolife. and yes. that would be the point and reasoning, seabeyond Apr 2015 #62

100% correct Freddie Apr 2015 #81

They also have no problem with women dying from botched sufrommich Apr 2015 #91

She did very well. Those who want to fasten on one word need to listen to the whole thing again. Hekate Apr 2015 #71

That was a great answer from her Marrah_G Apr 2015 #80

i thought so also. but go figure. and still, we argue. lol. nt seabeyond Apr 2015 #94

LOL I know Marrah_G Apr 2015 #102

i sit the same place as you do. i thought what she said was important enough for all us to hear seabeyond Apr 2015 #104

"Speechless?" One can only hope. Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #95

Hillary did a good job with her answer...but haikugal Apr 2015 #96

period at the end when she uses rare. then she explains how one decdreases it. then she brings seabeyond Apr 2015 #98

Yeah we all know what they really want and I'm done giving them anything. nt haikugal Apr 2015 #99

The "rare" talk is just another example of the left shifting to the right Novara Apr 2015 #97

Jeeez. People are willing to dismiss the whole speech just for the use of "rare". Quantess Apr 2015 #108

another example of looking for a reason to dismiss Clinton Evergreen Emerald Apr 2015 #110

Please, she's a big girl and no one said anything other than she did a good job. haikugal Apr 2015 #146

I don't get it either, she's been consistently pro choice for sufrommich Apr 2015 #112

as she says.... she has been to the places with botched abortions and watched the suffering. seabeyond Apr 2015 #118

Unable to agree with her on the one thing they agree on! treestar Apr 2015 #131

Swedenhas a higher rate of abortion than the U.S. And Sweden has early sex ed which Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #178

Keep saying it.... :-) nt haikugal Apr 2015 #206

I've noticed that those supporting the language refuse to respond to that point. TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #219

... Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #231

That wasn't clear at all, sorry. I meant the assertion that better education and access to birth TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #239

How do explain Sweden and Europe? Women will have abortions. Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #240

I am agreeing with you! I was only seeking to clarify that LA, not push back. I'm sorry if I'm not TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #241

Luminous, did you have a link we can use. haikugal Apr 2015 #222

I'm on my phone and it is a pain to post links. Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #223

Thanks! There's no rush.... nt haikugal Apr 2015 #224

Here you go. And the stats are consistent on both pro-choice and anti-choice websites. Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #225

This information is either. Being ignored or suppressed. haikugal Apr 2015 #228

I *have* voted for HRC and I will again. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #179

K&R DeSwiss Apr 2015 #144

kick Liberal_in_LA Apr 2015 #150

Thanks, kpete! In that same hearing she reiterated she opposed forced abortions, as well. n/t freshwest Apr 2015 #160

YUmm...great...TPP? Worse than crickets BobSmith4152 Apr 2015 #177

Abortions are not cheap. kiva Apr 2015 #183

+1 nashville_brook Apr 2015 #185

I had a skin tag removed I had a basal cell removed should those be rare? How about colonoscopies? DrKZ Apr 2015 #196

Good answer. The right answer. nt valerief Apr 2015 #186

holy cow, ya'll -- times have changed with regard to "rare" nashville_brook Apr 2015 #189

+++ It was the camel's triangulating nose under the tent. DirkGently Apr 2015 #197

"Rare" was a mistaken concession we must retract. DirkGently Apr 2015 #191

Amen and THANK YOU! PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #192

Yes, absolutely. Why should abortions be rare? Novara Apr 2015 #193

Exactly. +1 Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #227

That was a great answer by HRC Gothmog Apr 2015 #234