General Discussion

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)

90. In that case he has no basis for smearing Elizabeth Warren

Wed Apr 22, 2015, 03:50 AM

Apr 2015

Anytime a really bad draft leaks, the Obama apologists here tell us that it's just a draft and we shouldn't breathe a word of criticism because the final proposal may be different.

Well, if we don't know for sure what will be in the final proposal, then neither does Obama. He doesn't have unilateral control over the negotiations.

As for the secrecy, that also means that he has no basis for his attack on Warren. It amounts to saying "I won't tell you what's in the deal but I will tell you that the critics are wrong." He can't have it both ways. If it's both secret and nonfinal, fine, those are the rules of this negotiation, but he can't start propagandizing for it yet.

By the way, has Obama or the USTR or anyone in a position to know gone on record denying the accuracy of the leaks that have occurred already?

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Obama: Elizabeth Warren Is Simply Wrong On TPP [View all] a kennedy Apr 2015 OP

sorry this is a dupe HereSince1628 Apr 2015 #1

Duplicates are permitted in GD Autumn Apr 2015 #4

Sorry, I looked for it prior to posting it, and didn't seen anything about it.... a kennedy Apr 2015 #9

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2015 #37

Someone's wrong but it sure as hell isn't Liz. Autumn Apr 2015 #2

I thought the First Comment kind of said it all in reply on Huff Post: KoKo Apr 2015 #38

Yeah I like that one too. Autumn Apr 2015 #47

+100 appalachiablue Apr 2015 #89

Stop With The Secrecy Obama billhicks76 Apr 2015 #41

^^^this^^^ L0oniX Apr 2015 #64

My thought too n/t MissDeeds Apr 2015 #50

prove her wrong frylock Apr 2015 #3

Sounds like he's going to attempt to do just that LordGlenconner Apr 2015 #6

with words or with data? frylock Apr 2015 #18

Apparently with action LordGlenconner Apr 2015 #100

THat is exactly what was said to those concerned about NAFTA. bvar22 Apr 2015 #110

Glad to see you posting here. Got a few qustions about the protests in EU regarding the TTIP. jwirr Apr 2015 #111

Warren should prove Obama is wrong, she is the one making the claim it's wrong for America. Lil Missy Apr 2015 #12

maybe they should release the details of the trade agreement.. frylock Apr 2015 #17

That approach is crazy. Jackpine Radical Apr 2015 #65

Warren proves Obama wrong every time she talks about TPP Joe Turner Apr 2015 #79

You're speaking the truth JonLP24 Apr 2015 #109

That's on Obama - he's the one who has it marked classified. TBF Apr 2015 #124

How the fuck are we supposed to know that since he won't tell us whats in it tularetom Apr 2015 #5

^^^this^^^ TDale313 Apr 2015 #15

See below; plus then how does Elizabeth Warren know what's in it? treestar Apr 2015 #27

she didn't make the rules that made it secret dsc Apr 2015 #74

If she knows should she not tell us? treestar Apr 2015 #95

If she did release the text, bvar22 Apr 2015 #128

It is classified info. The congress cannot release the details. jwirr Apr 2015 #112

" ... his administration has deemed the negotiations to be classified." NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #7

Mahalo for making that more clear, Nance. Cha Apr 2015 #8

Many of us ... NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #11

How have these classfied negotiations with LABOR, Enironmentalist, bvar22 Apr 2015 #53

"President Transparency" ... NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #58

If they cannot be done in the light of day... Chan790 Apr 2015 #75

Yeah, okay, whatever. n/t NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #81

The US Constitution was negotiated in secret NobodyHere Apr 2015 #87

Holy shit. Completely different and you know it. n/t Dawgs Apr 2015 #97

At least representatives of the American People were in attendance. bvar22 Apr 2015 #115

It was if you weren't White, Male, and Landed. Not mad at you, but just sayin=) Volaris Apr 2015 #162

In that case he has no basis for smearing Elizabeth Warren Jim Lane Apr 2015 #90

Ah, now I see the problem. NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #91

Total straw man argument. Jim Lane Apr 2015 #93

You're the one ... NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #108

I didn't believe Bill CLinton would do that either, bvar22 Apr 2015 #119

About my agenda Jim Lane Apr 2015 #134

What it actually comes down to is ... NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #141

On this subject you don't HAVE to rely on DUers for their "expert" opinions. Jim Lane Apr 2015 #144

I unabashedly admire Obama. NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #149

I certainly don't regret having voted for him. Jim Lane Apr 2015 #150

Hold it right there ... NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #151

If I misinterpreted your #91, I apologize. Jim Lane Apr 2015 #159

Has this been mentioned on DU? "Labor groups protest against TPP" Art_from_Ark Apr 2015 #155

Thanks for the info! Jim Lane Apr 2015 #158

Complete Strawman from a tortured imagination. bvar22 Apr 2015 #117

I didn't raise the "strawman" ... NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #130

Your argument is still a Srawman. bvar22 Apr 2015 #132

They were wrong before and they're wrong now. Dawgs Apr 2015 #98

There are reasons for agreements ... NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #106

YEs. There ARE reasons, bvar22 Apr 2015 #118

And we always get fucked over so *always* isn't very compelling or attractive. TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #139

Believe what you will. n/t NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #142

Has nothing to do with what I will. Pure observation. Do you have some argument that these deals TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #145

Believe what you will. NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #147

As predicted, you have no argument that these "free trade" deals have not been harmful TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #148

WE ARE NOT A GOVERNMENT OF THE PEOPLE!! ChiciB1 Apr 2015 #83

Our hair is not on fire. Nor do we want the details of the negotiations. We want access to the plan jwirr Apr 2015 #113

I have said repeatedly ... NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #137

you are wrong. the process of negotiation is NOT exactly the same cali Apr 2015 #13

I didn't say that the process is always "exactly the same". NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #14

TO VARYING DEGREES. The secrecy around negotiations for the TPP has been cali Apr 2015 #19

You forgot me!!! bvar22 Apr 2015 #120

and bvar. of course! how remiss of me. cali Apr 2015 #140

Yeah, but you're an anonymous online commenter, so you don't count. Jim Lane Apr 2015 #146

People are constantly doing this re Obama treestar Apr 2015 #26

Exactly. NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #32

You are WRONG again. bvar22 Apr 2015 #121

Trade treaties are always negotiated ... NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #131

I don't work for you. bvar22 Apr 2015 #133

"Always done it that way" doesn't make it right and doesn't mean it's a good deal. Dawgs Apr 2015 #99

But Congress will know when they vote. And fast track doesn't meant they must approve it. freshwest Apr 2015 #71

Well, all I can add is this ... NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #85

Strange that Jamaal510 Apr 2015 #154

Partly it's the rush for time to respond to stories, need to get ratings, and failing to reflect. freshwest Apr 2015 #157

Not the same process muriel_volestrangler Apr 2015 #94

..ANd Senator Sanders shoots down... bvar22 Apr 2015 #129

If, as you say, ALL trade treaties are negotiated in secret, bvar22 Apr 2015 #114

Yes, heaven forbid that massive trade deals are negotiated in confidence. You know, like they always underahedgerow Apr 2015 #161

lol. and Merkely is wrong and Schumer is wrong and Sanders is wrong and cali Apr 2015 #10

Funny how he doesn't mention that neverforget Apr 2015 #16

and Levin(just heard him on a local show) Mnpaul Apr 2015 #21

hey, thanks cali Apr 2015 #23

I wish that I had the whole interview Mnpaul Apr 2015 #24

...! KoKo Apr 2015 #52

A bit off topic but... tavernier Apr 2015 #69

Does he have to agree when the list reaches a certain number? treestar Apr 2015 #29

The TPP is not one thing. stillwaiting Apr 2015 #78

Well Said........! KoKo Apr 2015 #40

Prove it. 99Forever Apr 2015 #20

That's a statement likely to bite him in the ass. n/t winter is coming Apr 2015 #22

Classic Disagreement between an anti-LABOR "moderate Republican from the 80s", bvar22 Apr 2015 #25

...! KoKo Apr 2015 #42

''Conspiracy Theorists.'' Octafish Apr 2015 #28

I hope she's wrong, and not purposely spreading the junk. My favorite recently is Hoyt Apr 2015 #30

Can you explain the details in simple terms? Are their enforcement protections built in, and other still_one Apr 2015 #33

Yes, you have to read several sources including the negotiating text, USTR site, Obama explanations, Hoyt Apr 2015 #46

Outraged Sherrod Brown: 12 Hours Notice for Hearings, Secret Meetings, Staff Not Able to View TPP. KoKo Apr 2015 #55

Brown, whom I really like when he's not playing politics, shouldn't have waited to the last minute Hoyt Apr 2015 #72

Yeah it is Brown and Warren lying and Ryan, McConnell, Paul, the Chamber of Commerce, TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #143

Wrong. bvar22 Apr 2015 #56

No it's not, you can look it up yourself. If true, she's not doing a very good job keeping Hoyt Apr 2015 #73

This is the problem. The deal was done in secret, and because of that glances are obtained from still_one Apr 2015 #31

what fucking facts? the secret facts? oh, trust me, he said, I'm a liberal he said. elehhhhna Apr 2015 #34

The fact that they want to do it fast and secret tells me everything I need to know.. yourout Apr 2015 #35

Right now I am opposed to TPP. lovemydog Apr 2015 #36

I wish a reporter would ask him.."How is TPP different from NAFTA which decimated our.... yourout Apr 2015 #39

Me too. I would like to see him give a speech as to why he's in favor, lovemydog Apr 2015 #45

Funny how both Obama AND Clinton knew how bad NAFTA was nationalize the fed Apr 2015 #48

Given that florida08 Apr 2015 #43

And the fact the Republicans like this and agree with the president dflprincess Apr 2015 #82

This message was self-deleted by its author guyton Apr 2015 #44

Sorry Mr. President... SoapBox Apr 2015 #49

Obama who put Monsanto in charge of overseeing our food emsimon33 Apr 2015 #51

... SidDithers Apr 2015 #70

You need to put down the weed and keep current emsimon33 Apr 2015 #92

Yeah, I remember my first beer too, kid LordGlenconner Apr 2015 #103

I stand with Sen. Warren (nt) bigwillq Apr 2015 #54

I'm sure Obama... sendero Apr 2015 #57

"TRUST ME" Skittles Apr 2015 #59

Here's your chance, Elizabeth, now you've not only got the banksters in your sight, but libdem4life Apr 2015 #60

One of the things I seem to recall him saying to Tweety was to Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2015 #61

+1 840high Apr 2015 #80

Let's see. Who is keeping it secret, and who wants to examine it out in the open? GoneFishin Apr 2015 #62

Convince her zipplewrath Apr 2015 #63

I'm sorry Mr President, history of these trade agreements says you are wrong on TPP. Dont call me Shirley Apr 2015 #66

I watched as he dredged out the same argument I've heard before NorthCarolina Apr 2015 #67

Not the first question the president and I have disagreed over. Such is life. cheapdate Apr 2015 #68

Referring to her as an ally on a whole host of issues just makes morningfog Apr 2015 #76

says the most corporate president in history. Doctor_J Apr 2015 #77

Finally shows his true colors. Koinos Apr 2015 #84

Obama has ALWAYS been a very moderate democrat. He is actually slightly BreakfastClub Apr 2015 #86

The Republicans Said so JustAnotherGen Apr 2015 #101

That doesn't excuse his behavior. nt TBF Apr 2015 #125

But he can't say why... AgingAmerican Apr 2015 #88

The TPP is about as secret as the square root of one. ucrdem Apr 2015 #96

ARe you trying to imply that Warren and Sanders... bvar22 Apr 2015 #126

Followup: Warren responds PoliticAverse Apr 2015 #102

But the GOP, the Heritage Foundation, brentspeak Apr 2015 #104

How about taking it to the people ? Smarmie Doofus Apr 2015 #105

WOW??!!!! bvar22 Apr 2015 #138

TPPA makes Malaysia liable for foreign firms� losses, new leak show JonLP24 Apr 2015 #107

I remember a guy promising in 2008 to get us out of NAFTA. Apparently he was wrong too? n/t lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #116

He never even tried. bvar22 Apr 2015 #122

Yes. Austan Goolsbee was that guy. n/t lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #123

Thank You. bvar22 Apr 2015 #135

Here's a contemporary article from Mother Jones lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #136

Canadian TV nationalize the fed Apr 2015 #156

Yes, he was the senior economist at the DLC before joining QC Apr 2015 #153

A simpler explanation rock Apr 2015 #127

Release it so we can see for ourselves. BainsBane Apr 2015 #152

If It Was a Good Deal Sparhawk60 Apr 2015 #160