General Discussion

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)

127. None of my friends, men or women, spend appreciable time in bars.

Wed Apr 22, 2015, 03:31 PM

Apr 2015

As my username implies, my friends are not ivory tower politically enlightened sophisticates either.

I'm admittedly not, and never have been, a big fan of bars. I haven't found them to be a good resource for anything but a fight. My twenty-something kids friends tend to drink at home or at friends homes.

I have come to believe that England has a relatively enlightened attitude toward pubs, in that kids are allowed so long as they don't drink. The debauchery resulting from "spring break every day from 5:00 to 02:00 daily" is sidestepped.

Your stated experience is similar to mine: you can't get any kind of intelligent conversation at an american bar, but I find that absence crosses all racial, economic or gender boundaries.

And media definitely shapes attitudes. Were that not the case, advertising wouldn't be a multi-billion dollar a year industry.

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Democrats' hunt for the white working-class male voter [View all] YoungDemCA Apr 2015 OP

as long as whit emen continue to define their masculinity thru their vote, there will be an issue seabeyond Apr 2015 #1

But white males do NOT see a vote for the GOP as against their self-interest. guillaumeb Apr 2015 #5

The GOP knew they had to break the unions and they did it with a lot of racism and CTyankee Apr 2015 #138

You are so right. hifiguy Apr 2015 #142

So many don't think of themselves as ever having been privileged by their gender or race YoungDemCA Apr 2015 #6

And as long as they continue to stay myopic about the world around them. Rex Apr 2015 #14

Me voting Democratic has been against my economic self-interest. Ikonoklast Apr 2015 #67

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration CANDO Apr 2015 #104

Massive increase in insurance mandatory minimums. Ikonoklast Apr 2015 #143

Thank you for the detailed reply CANDO Apr 2015 #156

while I'm generally not much of a believer in gender politics, this is most of the problem whatthehey Apr 2015 #78

This should be its own thread / op JustAnotherGen Apr 2015 #82

Wish I knew. I'm no marketing guru. But we know what doesn't work whatthehey Apr 2015 #95

we had a real character of what you describe as our mechanic a while back... CTyankee Apr 2015 #144

Huey Long knew. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #148

+1. n/t obnoxiousdrunk Apr 2015 #92

People model what is expected of them. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #100

" There are no reasons to believe that white men were always knuckle dragging morons." DonCoquixote Apr 2015 #107

I suspect white men voted for FDR lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #108

well they have not DonCoquixote Apr 2015 #109

The current president has said... lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #117

Guys don't advocate for themselves, they suffer individually, and project that hurt in other ways. DonCoquixote Apr 2015 #133

Always? Certainly not. But their politics are more than any other group whatthehey Apr 2015 #126

None of my friends, men or women, spend appreciable time in bars. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #127

I spend approx 15 hrs a week in bars, w/ a 158 IQ, multiple degrees and a few academic publications whatthehey Apr 2015 #137

... and this provides you insight into the attitudes of working class white men? lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #146

Uneducated white working males job prospects onecaliberal Apr 2015 #2

You appear to be implying that intelligence is determined by skin color... Fumesucker Apr 2015 #19

I am in agreement with the OP onecaliberal Apr 2015 #55

Everyone in the working class is sliding backwards economically Fumesucker Apr 2015 #59

Racism is a huge issue here, and probably the biggest one. hifiguy Apr 2015 #3

Ah yes, the ole' "I will make all of our lives miserable, if it means making your life miserable" YoungDemCA Apr 2015 #10

voting against their own interests ... napkinz Apr 2015 #37

LBJ never spoke words that were more true. hifiguy Apr 2015 #38

Spot on. nt sufrommich Apr 2015 #39

Warren owns this demographic. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #4

so minorities should not have a say ? JI7 Apr 2015 #7

JI7, I've noticed something about internet discussion... Scootaloo Apr 2015 #26

So...you're saying you hate kittehs??!! (nt) Inkfreak Apr 2015 #66

No, the NRA owns that demographic. nt sufrommich Apr 2015 #9

this JI7 Apr 2015 #17

Warren owns that demographic? Huh? Cali_Democrat Apr 2015 #15

Are you saying that white working-class men are all, or mostly, Republican? NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #64

I go by election results Cali_Democrat Apr 2015 #65

White men are not all working class or even mostly working class betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #86

Yep, they don't know they hate Warren yet- only because she hasn't been targeted by Rush and company bettyellen Apr 2015 #87

that is unadulterated hooey dsc Apr 2015 #76

They sure don't want Hillary Clinton, who has no intention of making their lives better. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #84

yeah it is vastly more liberal dsc Apr 2015 #88

The values that Warren holds resonate strongly with working class men. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #128

The problem is not the Democratic party Cali_Democrat Apr 2015 #8

Yep. nt sufrommich Apr 2015 #11

Yep and a lot of them are ammosexuals or hard-core bigots to boot. hifiguy Apr 2015 #13

In other words, "Those idiots, why won't they vote for us?" Ex Lurker Apr 2015 #33

When you tell someone that they are getting economically screwed by hifiguy Apr 2015 #42

There is zero hope for the type of person you describe ProudToBeBlueInRhody Apr 2015 #69

Anyone who votes Republican, is an idiot. Cali_Democrat Apr 2015 #43

they aren't idiots . they are voting based on bigotry JI7 Apr 2015 #49

+1 n/t lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #119

Fuck those rednecks. Right? Comrade Grumpy Apr 2015 #110

Yes, fuck Republican rednecks who vote for assholes like Ted Cruz. Cali_Democrat Apr 2015 #115

You do know that probably tens of millions of white guys voted for Obama? Comrade Grumpy Apr 2015 #121

My comment wasn't specific to all white guys Cali_Democrat Apr 2015 #123

Bullshit. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #118

Anyone who votes Republican, watches fox news, and listens to Rush Limbaugh... Cali_Democrat Apr 2015 #120

Straight white males are voting repulican? Yes, and so are their wives. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #122

The white electorate is shrinking as a percentage of the vote...and it's shrinking fast. Cali_Democrat Apr 2015 #125

When that happens, then who will you kick out of our club in the name of purity? n/t lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #147

Reading comprehension appears to be an issue here... Cali_Democrat Apr 2015 #150

we see it on here all the time . women minorities lgbt JI7 Apr 2015 #12

"The biggest driver of white working-class disaffection, however, is clearly economic insecurity" HereSince1628 Apr 2015 #16

that doesn't make sense since they voted romney JI7 Apr 2015 #20

Follow the money BKH70041 Apr 2015 #18

odd considering all the criticisms of Hillary and other democrats JI7 Apr 2015 #21

Women and minorities will go Democratic. BKH70041 Apr 2015 #23

turnout is important. Obama campAigned hard in black .Hispanic.young areas JI7 Apr 2015 #24

Allow me to clarify. BKH70041 Apr 2015 #32

It's always an issue. obama had to work hard for the high turnouts JI7 Apr 2015 #51

Restated BKH70041 Apr 2015 #61

Used to call him a Reagan Democrat. Described perfectly here: leveymg Apr 2015 #22

The democrats have dropped the ball on economics betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #25

women and minorities are just too stupid to see what JI7 Apr 2015 #27

Yes---hasn't that been mansplained to you, yet? nt msanthrope Apr 2015 #31

Womansplaned. I am a women n/t betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #34

This message was self-deleted by its author MerryBlooms Apr 2015 #48

They don't have as many shiny objects blinding them to facts. betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #36

of course they do, the shiny object is the Gun which is why they vote republican JI7 Apr 2015 #68

Most people don't vote at all so that betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #71

"They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or pampango Apr 2015 #72

So called anti-trade views aren't the republican base. betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #73

Of course they are. The majority of the republican base opposes TPP. And it's not just the TPP pampango Apr 2015 #75

The majority of the democratic base opposes TPP too betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #80

No it doesn't. pampango Apr 2015 #81

we aren't talking about the republican base we are talking about working class whites. betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #83

So "while a slight majority of the democratic base do indicate support" for the TPP, pampango Apr 2015 #90

I don't think the party should just appeal to identity groups betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #93

I certainly agree that we should not JUST appeal to identity groups, but pampango Apr 2015 #94

I never said the republican party opposes being reactionary betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #96

Except when they oppose the TPP which is supported by the "economic reactionary" Obama (and Hillary) pampango Apr 2015 #97

Since Obama is winning with most of GOP backing him and the Democrats opposed betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #98

Glad you're back. Here you go: pampango Apr 2015 #99

The first poll was taken along time ago before most would have heard of TPP betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #101

No. The first was done 5 months ago. Your knowledge of who had heard of TPP and pampango Apr 2015 #103

He can't win with only people who self identify liberal democrats betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #105

Democrats lost white working class men in the 1980s, sufrommich Apr 2015 #29

coincidence it happened along with passage of civil rights laws JI7 Apr 2015 #30

The woman's rights movement too. Here's an interesting article sufrommich Apr 2015 #35

I cited the union hard hat violence against anti-war protesters the other day Fumesucker Apr 2015 #44

Well,I'm 58,female and worked a blue collar job which was sufrommich Apr 2015 #50

Eh, I'm a white male, older than you and blue collar Fumesucker Apr 2015 #57

This posts "ruins" a perfectly good stereotype! Cosmic Kitten Apr 2015 #79

This is what it was coincident with. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #106

Since the Nixon campaign of 1968. hifiguy Apr 2015 #40

Very true.nt sufrommich Apr 2015 #41

This message was self-deleted by its author Ken Burch Apr 2015 #46

I think you replied to the wrong person. hifiguy Apr 2015 #47

Oh shit, you're right. Will delete there and re-post in response to the other poster. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #52

No problem hifiguy Apr 2015 #54

And HRC used a very Nixon-like strategy to win white working-class voters in the late '08 primaries. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #53

That particular fact seems to have been swept into a space warp hifiguy Apr 2015 #56

Her appeal wasn't to the working class though it was to mild racists. n/t betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #74

I always like these kind of OP's upaloopa Apr 2015 #28

I know. Kinda feels like we're unwanted. Comrade Grumpy Apr 2015 #111

Yeah, saves me the effort! Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #130

You get white working class voters by talking about class and to fight corporate power. Ken Burch Apr 2015 #45

Murdoch et al have been very effective in brainwashing white males n2doc Apr 2015 #58

It all comes down to this, (I swiped this graphic from napkinz) hifiguy Apr 2015 #63

Yep. White males are the all-purpose foil. Man of a thousand stereotypes. Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #131

I am a middle-aged white guy and have known so many others hifiguy Apr 2015 #132

One side says "blame these people." The other says "You stupid asshole." Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #134

I think what motivates them to vote R sadoldgirl Apr 2015 #60

What percentage of them Trajano Apr 2015 #70

Well said, sadoldgirl. Their motivation is fear: fear of change, fear of the "other" pampango Apr 2015 #77

The republicans are motivated by that. Working class white is not the same thing n/t betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #85

Agreed. Although republicans use fear of 'others' to attract the votes of working class whites. pampango Apr 2015 #91

You push radical, rightwing "free trade" here day and night. To you, the "others" are American workers Romulox Apr 2015 #113

Nice to see you around, Romulox. I see your preference for discussing policies not posters pampango Apr 2015 #116

I can't return that sentiment. Romulox Apr 2015 #140

I didn't think you could. That's OK. n/t pampango Apr 2015 #141

Teachers HockeyMom Apr 2015 #62

How about just concentrating on the working class period? Democrats have abandoned all liberal_at_heart Apr 2015 #89

This is what has happened to the wages of working class men. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #102

The party of NAFTA, TPP, Bank bailouts wonders WHYOWHY won't the poor vote for us??? Romulox Apr 2015 #112

Opposing free trade agreement would bring some white working class males back in. hollowdweller Apr 2015 #114

Yup. n/t lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #149

Newp DonCoquixote Apr 2015 #151

Is your entire political world view predicated on a sexual/racial stereotype? lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #154

no DonCoquixote Apr 2015 #155

Sounds to me like the white working class abandoned the Democratic Party, not the other way around philosslayer Apr 2015 #124

The "white working class" knows it is hated by many in the Party. It acts accordingly. nt Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #129

That is evolving rapidly, thanks to Occupy Wall St. that got the ball rolling on CTyankee Apr 2015 #135

I hope you're right. The "old" labor movement grew out of dissatisfaction with what passed Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #145

I'm right here, I'm not so sure about this article. Rex Apr 2015 #136

Remember that this demographic was hit the hardest in the recent economic recession davidn3600 Apr 2015 #139

Democratic leaders need to realize what a beating white working class males have taken for 40 years Warpy Apr 2015 #152

Economic inequality - TBF Apr 2015 #153