General Discussion

lovemydog

(11,833 posts)

71. That's why I'm going to research it more, and will listen to President Obama's

Fri Apr 24, 2015, 04:30 AM

Apr 2015

speech in full. I hate it when people mischaracterize things based on what they've heard from someone else or if they've only read one side about it and don't even acknowledge the other side's arguments. I suspect right now that it's big unions that are opposed and some are just repeating what's said by their leaders. That's okay, but yeesh, what about all the other people in our country who might benefit. Some of the critics, saying things like 'it's the end of the democratic process!' or 'it will lead to the end of the country!' are rather, to put it nicely, histrionic.

A few years ago, at a dog park, someone yelled at me: 'This country has never been more divided!' I was like, uh, what about the slavery, the Civil War, the immigration battles, the Red Scare, The Civil Rights Struggles, The Vietnam War, The Korean War, The Iraq War, in fact when has our country not been divided on some issue....he walked away.

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Obama turns to his base for trade support [View all] n2doc Apr 2015 OP

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Apr 2015 #1

Is he going to release the text so Congress knows what he's asking them to Fast Track? sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #2

Even if he did, and the TPP was made of gold and fairy dust.... daleanime Apr 2015 #52

He knows what is in it. He also knows what we are worried about. No more generic speeches. Just jwirr Apr 2015 #96

Yes. He will release it. Will you actually read it? Hoyt Apr 2015 #68

Trying to get DU's left to defend itself at every turn just never gets old, does it? merrily Apr 2015 #76

I've read the parts were released by Wikileaks, and if the rest of it sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #106

You'll have plenty of time before Congress considers it. Hoyt Apr 2015 #107

Plenty of time to do what? Know what the TeaPubliKlans are going to vote for with no away to stop it TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #111

What happens if Obama sends them a good agreement? I don't believe he'll send a bad one Hoyt Apr 2015 #113

I don't care what you believe not to disrespect you but because it has no bearing TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #115

He and his educated advisers could be right too. Lots of people wouldn't even realize it. Hoyt Apr 2015 #116

I predict that it will be impenetrably worded. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #120

No, thanks, Obama. (nt) bigwillq Apr 2015 #3

Sorry, not buying. [n/t] Maedhros Apr 2015 #4

Go, for it, Mr. President. But please be more honest than you were last night cali Apr 2015 #5

Turn to His Base? Koinos Apr 2015 #6

I'm sure you are. BlueCaliDem Apr 2015 #10

You're trying a little too hard LordGlenconner Apr 2015 #18

lol. nt sufrommich Apr 2015 #20

Back so soon? JaneyVee Apr 2015 #26

I'm right behind you, Koinos Rolando Apr 2015 #56

"You used to agree with Democrats on most issues". I doubt it, unless you were around when FDR was still_one Apr 2015 #65

You do seem close. That may not work out well. merrily Apr 2015 #77

You may be against the TPP, and that is fine, but do you even know what this president has still_one Apr 2015 #64

Most people in D.C. think 250k a year is middle class. Rex Apr 2015 #110

An Organizing for America event brentspeak Apr 2015 #7

Nice to see you. You wrote one of the best DU OPs I've ever seen. Nice to be able to thank you. merrily Apr 2015 #78

You're welcome brentspeak Apr 2015 #105

If the TPP fails, NAFTA will remain "as is". One of President Obama's campaign promises was to BlueCaliDem Apr 2015 #8

international partners Koinos Apr 2015 #11

I would assume the same that were involved with NAFTA. BlueCaliDem Apr 2015 #14

Corporations Koinos Apr 2015 #23

So you'd rather keep NAFTA as is? BlueCaliDem Apr 2015 #27

What specifically is being fixed? TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #38

I gave you the links to the U.S Trade Representative site. BlueCaliDem Apr 2015 #39

So meandering rhetoric and fluff? Gotcha. TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #45

You know yourself so well, TK! Good for you! eom BlueCaliDem Apr 2015 #87

Folks are not doing a lot of research into TPP, seem to be accepting of BS. Hoyt Apr 2015 #69

That's why I'm going to research it more, and will listen to President Obama's lovemydog Apr 2015 #71

Yep. That's why I've provided links to the U.S. Trade Representative's site. BlueCaliDem Apr 2015 #89

Good luck. Hoyt Apr 2015 #90

you do know that the deal will be made public before the vote, and will allow time for the public to still_one Apr 2015 #54

The advisory committees included every major union. Others who had input included universities, Hoyt Apr 2015 #72

what a crock. There's plenty of erudite analysis. The TPA will not fix Nafta cali Apr 2015 #30

+ a whole hell of a lot! Dark n Stormy Knight Apr 2015 #101

Mitch McConnell, Rand Paul, Orrin Hatch, Heritage, & the RNC say thank you for your support Elwood P Dowd Apr 2015 #32

Can't find the labor protections zipplewrath Apr 2015 #46

Most likely because they're still in negotiation? BlueCaliDem Apr 2015 #57

yes zipplewrath Apr 2015 #117

Then there's no more to discuss with you. You've already made up your mind to distrust BlueCaliDem Apr 2015 #118

And you haven't zipplewrath Apr 2015 #119

"TPP will do that." 2banon Apr 2015 #50

Try the U.S. Trade Representative site. BlueCaliDem Apr 2015 #58

Holy cow! MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #53

Cows are holy? BlueCaliDem Apr 2015 #59

They are in India Art_from_Ark Apr 2015 #61

Is Manny Indian, then? eom BlueCaliDem Apr 2015 #88

No, but he might be a cow. hifiguy Apr 2015 #99

Good comeback! BlueCaliDem Apr 2015 #104

unless he's offering more transparency, very few will be listening nt geek tragedy Apr 2015 #9

Here's some transparency - and truth: If TPP fails, NAFTA remains AS IS; unchanged, BlueCaliDem Apr 2015 #12

a lot of people we trust are opposing it as well geek tragedy Apr 2015 #13

Yet, you're currently operating from the position of "trust" from those you "trust", BlueCaliDem Apr 2015 #19

I'm neither opposed nor in favor right now. geek tragedy Apr 2015 #21

Have you read the analysis? I have, and I now lean in favor of a TPP. BlueCaliDem Apr 2015 #25

That's the alternative for now. The next Democratic President justiceischeap Apr 2015 #29

Ah. I see a new apologist talking point has been conjured up. It's bullshit propaganda. But it's GoneFishin Apr 2015 #15

GOOD! At least it is some deviation from some of the most well worn bullshit talking points ever TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #47

It must be sort of surreal to have a job where your major responsibility is lying your ass off to GoneFishin Apr 2015 #49

Support what?? We don't know anything officially in writing! dmosh42 Apr 2015 #16

Everything so far negotiated is on the U.S. Trade Representative's site: BlueCaliDem Apr 2015 #28

That's more of a broad outline of what the deal is supposed to contain, but not 'specific'. dmosh42 Apr 2015 #35

Yes, yes. Like I said, BlueCaliDem Apr 2015 #41

According to what I heard, they want a vote to 'fast track' whatever there is in writing, which... dmosh42 Apr 2015 #43

"Fast Track" means that Congress has a full 90 days to review and either BlueCaliDem Apr 2015 #44

Jesus wept. WilliamPitt Apr 2015 #17

Oh for fuck's sake. Get a grip. YoungDemCA Apr 2015 #62

Pretty good drama is right, but I have to tell you Will is a good writer so he knows the buttons still_one Apr 2015 #66

Another attempt to cast all criticism of Obama as racism. merrily Apr 2015 #79

Attempting to paint this as having anything to do with race is just fucking offensive. AzDar Apr 2015 #92

What does Obama's racial make up have to do with this? TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #114

The Democratic base already supports him (not the GOP base, of course) but it makes sense pampango Apr 2015 #22

They don't trust him on this. cali Apr 2015 #31

They do from the polls I have seen. Are there new ones? n/t pampango Apr 2015 #33

Polls have consistently shown that Americans don't support the TPP cali Apr 2015 #34

True. Only the Democratic base does support it. republicans and independents do not. n/t pampango Apr 2015 #37

Future Presidents have to win people who are not in the present Democratic base n/t betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #48

...which was the whole point of the much reviled "Third Way" Democrats YoungDemCA Apr 2015 #63

That presumes they're honest betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #70

As always the question is: Do we attract independents and republicans by adopting their policies or pampango Apr 2015 #73

I think corporate dictatorship is right wing. betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #94

Agreed but you said we "have to win people who are not in the present Democratic base". How pampango Apr 2015 #95

I don't think advocating progressive policies to appeal to independents is ever a bad thing. betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #97

You really don't have to "advocate progressive policies" to them. On TPP they are already 'progressive'. pampango Apr 2015 #98

Who says I respect self described conservatives betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #102

I didn't say that. You only posted that you don't respect the Democratic base, not the you did pampango Apr 2015 #103

So why is it the Republicans who are backing it? eridani Apr 2015 #81

"Republicans" (their base) are not supporting it. republican politicians are supporting it. pampango Apr 2015 #85

And another attempt to cast all criticism of Obama as Republican. merrily Apr 2015 #80

IF I ever posted that "all criticism of Obama is Republican", I will go back and delete it. pampango Apr 2015 #82

Hence "cast" rather than "state." merrily Apr 2015 #83

"Subjective interpretation" rather than "declarative statement". n/t pampango Apr 2015 #86

And if his base is as smart as they believe themselves to be, they'll listen. BlueCaliDem Apr 2015 #24

absolute bull cali Apr 2015 #36

What President Obama says on this does not matter, what does matter is what is in the agreement still_one Apr 2015 #60

AS a member of his base, just let me say: 99Forever Apr 2015 #40

As a member of "his" base I promise this. I am watching. Autumn Apr 2015 #42

republicans are watching their politicians even more closely than we are. pampango Apr 2015 #75

Does the base include the US Chamber of Commerce, Rand Paul, Paul Ryan, Orin Hatch neverforget Apr 2015 #51

LMFAO ...sad ...very sad. Don't expect much support from the under the bus crowd. L0oniX Apr 2015 #55

I find it hilarious he gives a speech to Organizing for Action and actually says Autumn Apr 2015 #91

^^^THIS^^^ L0oniX Apr 2015 #93

I know that part of his base this morning nadinbrzezinski Apr 2015 #67

From what I've read here and other places, I don't think he'll get much support lovemydog Apr 2015 #74

Just think... sendero Apr 2015 #84

Nope. Nae. Never. hifiguy Apr 2015 #100

They'll end up doing whatever the hell they want... Contrary1 Apr 2015 #108

That's not going to work imo. Rex Apr 2015 #109

Sorry, Mr. President, I'm not buying it. nt City Lights Apr 2015 #112