General Discussion

metalbot

(1,058 posts)

109. What's the formal list of places that are theaters of combat?

Fri Apr 24, 2015, 11:56 AM

Apr 2015

And are those combatants not fair targets when they leave that formal list?

I don't disagree with either of your specific examples (nor specifically with this particular drone strike). What I'm concerned about is that we're essentially going down the Potter Stewart line of argument:

"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["hard-core pornography"], and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it

I feel like intuitively I know (and our government can know) when bad people should be killed, but I'm uncomfortable with the fact that we can't actually articulate the rules for that.

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Four NOT Two Americans Were Killed In Drone Strikes [View all] kpete Apr 2015 OP

What's up with the "American in the senior ranks of al Qaeda"? arcane1 Apr 2015 #1

what does that matter ? why should they be treated different than non americans ? JI7 Apr 2015 #2

optics. delrem Apr 2015 #8

+1 Scuba Apr 2015 #35

Superb post. n/t Smarmie Doofus Apr 2015 #58

They are enemy combatants.... Historic NY Apr 2015 #15

What field of combat were they on? metalbot Apr 2015 #44

...say the unnamed, unseen judge and executioner. Orsino Apr 2015 #67

No one is disputing that the two Gadahn and Farouq were members of Al Qaeda. geek tragedy Apr 2015 #69

Members who had done what to merit death, exactly? Orsino Apr 2015 #72

Treason? Action_Patrol Apr 2015 #79

Assisting how? n/t Orsino Apr 2015 #81

If you join Al Qaeda in any capacity Action_Patrol Apr 2015 #85

According to whom? Orsino Apr 2015 #88

This is textbook. Action_Patrol Apr 2015 #97

It can't be textbook without a criminal case and evidence. Orsino Apr 2015 #104

Enjoy your outrage. Action_Patrol Apr 2015 #106

Would you have any sympathy for someone wrongly accused of assisting al-Qaeda? Orsino Apr 2015 #107

Wrongly accused? Action_Patrol Apr 2015 #108

Well, for that we have the word of our government, which already executed several people... Orsino Apr 2015 #110

I don't believe they were there delivering pizza Action_Patrol Apr 2015 #116

I don't either, not really. Orsino Apr 2015 #117

Agreed and big hugs. Action_Patrol Apr 2015 #118

One a propagandist and the other a second-in-command. NuclearDem Apr 2015 #112

So we are told. But what did they do, exactly? Orsino Apr 2015 #113

Right, to be a propagandist and a second-in-command NuclearDem Apr 2015 #114

Well, you don't have to do anything to be accused of it. Orsino Apr 2015 #115

Al Qaeda said these guys held those roles. Heck, Gadahn himself said he held that role. geek tragedy Apr 2015 #125

Uh-huh. Orsino Apr 2015 #139

If they were in custody as opposed to traveling with geek tragedy Apr 2015 #140

Reality is the problem. Orsino Apr 2015 #141

no, the problem is that "due process' is a very elastic concept that means VASTLY geek tragedy Apr 2015 #142

You're quoting the law as currently applied (and withheld). Orsino Apr 2015 #143

So, you believe that American citizens should be able to join armed enemies in a war zone geek tragedy Apr 2015 #145

The only instances of privilege in ths equation are that of our government... Orsino Apr 2015 #146

what due process would you require for those who are embedded with enemy forces? geek tragedy Apr 2015 #147

Some goddamned accountability, at a minimum. Orsino Apr 2015 #148

that's not an answer. Arrest is not possible as they are embeded with an armed militia in a war zone geek tragedy Apr 2015 #149

Bullshit. We capture militants all the time. Orsino Apr 2015 #150

There is no due process right to guaranteed safety while joining the enemy geek tragedy Apr 2015 #152

So the law would have us believe. n/t Orsino Apr 2015 #155

you're free to invent your own definition that includes a free pony for every geek tragedy Apr 2015 #156

Very good reason, indeed. Orsino Apr 2015 #158

Right to a trial is guaranteed in the Constitution. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #17

doesn't that apply to non US Citizens also ? JI7 Apr 2015 #18

Not during war. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #20

Basically. When people join an armed enemy of the US geek tragedy Apr 2015 #42

Agreed still_one Apr 2015 #98

There is no right to trial for non-custodial combatants. nt msanthrope Apr 2015 #23

See my post #22. I think I am agreeing with you. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #25

Yes....I think we are in agreement. As for the hostages, it's my understanding that the US had msanthrope Apr 2015 #26

Very good. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #29

The AUMF of 9/18/2001, pursuant to the War Powers Act, does not suspend habeas....the msanthrope Apr 2015 #30

Agreed. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #31

Who gets to decide who is a non-custodial combatant? metalbot Apr 2015 #45

Taking command roles of authority within Al Qaeda and physically joining Al Qaeda combatants geek tragedy Apr 2015 #61

u.n resolution 1267 is a pretty good msanthrope Apr 2015 #100

This message was self-deleted by its author geek tragedy Apr 2015 #40

".....arrested, brought back to the US and tried for treason." EX500rider Apr 2015 #105

See my post 22. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #120

Does that mean we cannot attack foreign fighters in their presence? hack89 Apr 2015 #144

No. See my post #22. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #153

Sounds perfectly reasonable - thanks. nt hack89 Apr 2015 #154

As I understand it, this was a "signature" strike... Adrahil Apr 2015 #157

It's just a stupid piece of paper, kpete. Look, I get it. closeupready Apr 2015 #3

So you think they have the legal right to shoot at US servicepeople geek tragedy Apr 2015 #39

K&R The president of the United States has a "KILL LIST." woo me with science Apr 2015 #4

I'm pretty good with the President killing off Al Qaeda. And I agree with the widow of the US msanthrope Apr 2015 #27

+++ still_one Apr 2015 #99

Careful, someone might send an alert on your post. Maedhros Apr 2015 #128

At least they weren't waterboarded philosslayer Apr 2015 #5

If your government wants to kill you when you're abroad they can do it and nobody will raise a stink EX500rider Apr 2015 #6

blogs are legit since 2007! snooper2 Apr 2015 #7

There are some peeps I don't consider Americans. Be gone! babylonsister Apr 2015 #9

and because you believe the way you do PowerToThePeople Apr 2015 #10

Post removed Post removed Apr 2015 #12

i assume nothing PowerToThePeople Apr 2015 #14

WAR! elleng Apr 2015 #16

Habeas corpus can be suspended by the president in times of insurrection. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #22

The Authority to Suspend gladium et scutum Apr 2015 #34

Habeas corpus is irrelevant in a theater of active combat. geek tragedy Apr 2015 #38

I understand that n/t gladium et scutum Apr 2015 #41

Is Pakistan currently a theater of active combat? metalbot Apr 2015 #46

Af-Pak is considered a theater of combat. geek tragedy Apr 2015 #53

I'm slightly confused metalbot Apr 2015 #78

If this guy were sipping capuccinos in a sidewalk cafe in Rome or Beirut, this would geek tragedy Apr 2015 #82

What's the formal list of places that are theaters of combat? metalbot Apr 2015 #109

there is no law without facts. geek tragedy Apr 2015 #111

A non-custodial combatant killed in this manner has been given due process. You assume that msanthrope Apr 2015 #24

They were not denied due process by the govt. GGJohn Apr 2015 #48

by George Bush era rules. PowerToThePeople Apr 2015 #52

Bush didn't change the rules for enemies engaged in armed hostilities. geek tragedy Apr 2015 #56

we have troops getting shot at in Pakistan now? PowerToThePeople Apr 2015 #60

So you are making up your own facts to justify your complaint that AQ was treated unfairly. geek tragedy Apr 2015 #64

honestly, you know what I question? PowerToThePeople Apr 2015 #73

This is not Iraq. AQ are the ones who massacred 3000 people on US soil. geek tragedy Apr 2015 #75

as was posted a couple days ago PowerToThePeople Apr 2015 #80

Well, you are certainly right to be skeptical that the whole truth has been told (it has not) geek tragedy Apr 2015 #84

I can agree with this. PowerToThePeople Apr 2015 #91

They share a lot of the same tacitcs--hostage-taking, suicide tactics, threats to harm others etc nt geek tragedy Apr 2015 #92

And continued and escalated by President Obama. GGJohn Apr 2015 #63

Gadahn was not a combatant - he was a propagandist. Maedhros Apr 2015 #129

that's fucked up JI7 Apr 2015 #13

They were in the theater of combat in enemy ranks. geek tragedy Apr 2015 #37

I count three Americans Renew Deal Apr 2015 #11

And they covered it up for three months. nt bananas Apr 2015 #19

I go to Germany and join Hitler's Nazi SS?? Hulk Apr 2015 #21

because terrorists have rights hfojvt Apr 2015 #28

False analogy. Maedhros Apr 2015 #130

Weird and incoherent outrage doesn't help us think clearly struggle4progress Apr 2015 #32

I hope that drone is properly ashamed of itself for hoodwinking our president. Orsino Apr 2015 #33

They weren't the specific targets, just happened geek tragedy Apr 2015 #36

...andy anyone within a few hundred yards or so... oh well?! tk2kewl Apr 2015 #43

Not unless they dropped daisy cutters nt geek tragedy Apr 2015 #50

because drones have pinpoint accuracy tk2kewl Apr 2015 #51

No, killing AQ is not terrorism. nt geek tragedy Apr 2015 #54

but killing innocents is... tk2kewl Apr 2015 #59

the innocents that died here were not known to be present. geek tragedy Apr 2015 #68

fog of war is a great excuse tk2kewl Apr 2015 #70

no that's not the definition of terrorism. geek tragedy Apr 2015 #74

nice to see you have neat little boxes to sort the killings into tk2kewl Apr 2015 #76

there is nothing neat about this subject matter, but that doesn't mean geek tragedy Apr 2015 #77

Accuracy of what? My comments or drone strikes? I don't follow... tk2kewl Apr 2015 #83

Assertions without evidence are not much of an argument. geek tragedy Apr 2015 #87

really... you can't think of any on your own? tk2kewl Apr 2015 #94

why would Obama care about intimidating goat herders in Pakistan? nt geek tragedy Apr 2015 #96

This message was self-deleted by its author Whiskeytide Apr 2015 #89

My thoughts on all this are all over the place... Whiskeytide Apr 2015 #89

there are a few issues specific to drones--especially w/r/t operators not being geek tragedy Apr 2015 #95

If you join al-Queda you're no longer an American. PeteSelman Apr 2015 #47

The Constitution limits the actions of our government, it doesn't provide privileges to citizens. Maedhros Apr 2015 #131

Didn't limit anything from my perspective. PeteSelman Apr 2015 #135

I smell something PowerToThePeople Apr 2015 #136

Oh really super sleuth? PeteSelman Apr 2015 #137

Enjoy your hate! Maedhros Apr 2015 #138

Disgusted by Obama on many levels now. cwydro Apr 2015 #49

So you think we should drop flowers and love letters on Al Qaeda? geek tragedy Apr 2015 #57

My post was clearly written. cwydro Apr 2015 #62

Oh, I work in a very sane environment where people do not say idiotic nonsense geek tragedy Apr 2015 #65

Now who is writing gibberish lol? cwydro Apr 2015 #121

you said you were 'disgusted' at the news of two senior AQ operatives being killed nt geek tragedy Apr 2015 #122

Turncoats don't have special protections. TeeYiYi Apr 2015 #55

In a declared war, yes. Maedhros Apr 2015 #132

"We killed some folks..." elias49 Apr 2015 #66

Why am I seeing headlines that say 4 Americans were killed when one was an 'Italian National'? PoliticAverse Apr 2015 #71

3 americans, two al qaeda. as i read. and ya, i see a difference between hostage or innocent, seabeyond Apr 2015 #86

Probably because the poster did not actually read the article. MineralMan Apr 2015 #102

I guess it depends how one views AQ still_one Apr 2015 #93

Two of those were legitimate targets. Spider Jerusalem Apr 2015 #101

You wrote this: MineralMan Apr 2015 #103

in fairness, that was from the blog post he was quoting nt geek tragedy Apr 2015 #124

In fairness, the CNN link is at the top of the post. MineralMan Apr 2015 #127

you said, We apparently did not know they were present. questionseverything Apr 2015 #151

not to mention other important lives destroyed bigtree Apr 2015 #119

that's a much more compelling concern--the hundreds of Pakistanis who didn't deserve geek tragedy Apr 2015 #123

There may be many innocents DonCoquixote Apr 2015 #126

Not innocent, but still deserving of due process. Maedhros Apr 2015 #133

Because two were AQ, and their deaths are actually a GOOD thing? Blue_Tires Apr 2015 #134