General Discussion

jeff47

(26,549 posts)

122. Your argument would make sense if there were any significant trade barriers.

Fri Apr 24, 2015, 04:45 PM

Apr 2015

But there aren't. Trade is flowing just fine. Tariffs have not been statistically significant for a very long time. We already have lots of trade with the TPP countries.

What is not flowing as well is capital. Because the people with the capital abandoned the idea of taking risks a couple decades ago. TPP reduces the risk for capital as it flows between the TPP countries through mechanisms like eliminating the ability for government to kill a profitable enterprise just because it's destroying the local environment. If a government does that after the TPP, that government has to pay the investors their expected return.

Wanna start a strip mine and dump toxic sludge in the local drinking water? Now you don't have to worry about those little people getting their government to stop you. You make a nice, safe profit either way.

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Oh Shit... 'Democrats' Frustration With Obama Boils Over In Trade Battle' - HuffPo [View all] WillyT Apr 2015 OP

K & R AzDar Apr 2015 #1

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Apr 2015 #2

Where was this zeal when universal healthcare was on the table? Scuba Apr 2015 #28

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Apr 2015 #30

^^^^ this.... SSDD haikugal Apr 2015 #47

It couldn't be any more clear. Enthusiast Apr 2015 #58

Caller ties Obama with Commericial Club Of Chicago Rockyj Apr 2015 #99

That's what I was going to ask Art_from_Ark Apr 2015 #40

Oh the zeal at least for single payer was there , unfortunately like now, it was on the wrong side. A Simple Game Apr 2015 #96

Obama knew the Clintons failed and needed to appease insurance co's. SleeplessinSoCal Apr 2015 #130

OH FOR FUCKS SAKE Cosmocat Apr 2015 #140

shades of Bill Clinton and NAFTA. He's been bbgrunt Apr 2015 #35

This is President Obama's Legacy. 99Forever Apr 2015 #3

I think he may also see it as something of a 'closing of the circle' on his life HereSince1628 Apr 2015 #6

Permanently damaging the Democratic Party might actually be part of the goal. Enthusiast Apr 2015 #59

Destroy the Democratic Party and, don't forget, make himself extremely wealthy after he retires. pampango Apr 2015 #61

That was one of the DLC's openly stated goals. Marr Apr 2015 #86

'...freeing candidates from traditional constituencies to allow for pro-business policy' Ed Suspicious Apr 2015 #106

Full disclosure-- I'm paraphrasing. Marr Apr 2015 #118

Amen. Doctor_J Apr 2015 #4

I had some misgivings in 2008 - LiberalElite Apr 2015 #8

He knew liberal phraseology alright Plucketeer Apr 2015 #13

That was pretty stinky alright. Enthusiast Apr 2015 #60

First it was "keeping it under wraps until he gets elected" . . . markpkessinger Apr 2015 #17

This time around we're just too stupid to understand and should "trust" politicians blindly. nt RedCappedBandit Apr 2015 #81

They will resort back to calling us "low information" and generally Jamastiene Apr 2015 #129

When somone compares himself to a "moderate '80s Republican" Art_from_Ark Apr 2015 #43

Yes, not to mention his early expression of admiration for Ronald Reagan whathehell Apr 2015 #127

He held himself up like a rhoesach test... haikugal Apr 2015 #48

Those that did make noise were accused of ODS and being a 'hater' by his fans. n/t cui bono Apr 2015 #139

I remember, we were denigrated and called names. haikugal Apr 2015 #142

"just keeping it under wraps till ...elected" LondonReign2 Apr 2015 #87

It sure is an irrational rationalization. Like most of the other ones. BeanMusical Apr 2015 #134

I voted for him (twice), but I've never been on his bandwagon deutsey Apr 2015 #116

I had misgivings in 2008, too. Blue_In_AK Apr 2015 #149

This message was self-deleted by its author 840high Apr 2015 #37

Yep. Good thing he's 840high Apr 2015 #42

He is running again. Fuddnik Apr 2015 #69

+1 Marr Apr 2015 #74

She won't get my vote. 840high Apr 2015 #79

Have to agree with you. tazkcmo Apr 2015 #112

I hope they apply this lesson betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #5

I cannot wait for him to write the memoir so we Baitball Blogger Apr 2015 #7

Just because you are a scholar of X does not mean you are for X. blkmusclmachine Apr 2015 #14

Many on DU have been shouted down for saying the same thing BrotherIvan Apr 2015 #9

http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/19300/19346/trojanhorse_19346_lg.gif blkmusclmachine Apr 2015 #15

Exactly MissDeeds Apr 2015 #23

Ding ding ding! kath Apr 2015 #46

No room for doubt anymore FiveGoodMen Apr 2015 #93

+ 1000 red dog 1 Apr 2015 #26

Well said, THANK YOU!!!! haikugal Apr 2015 #49

+1 You nailed it. Enthusiast Apr 2015 #63

+1 leftstreet Apr 2015 #83

+1,000 LondonReign2 Apr 2015 #88

+1 He's definitely shown his hand now. cui bono Apr 2015 #98

I think this is the part that no one dares to admit BrotherIvan Apr 2015 #137

Yes, exactly. cui bono Apr 2015 #138

This has proven we have our 23%ers just like Bush BrotherIvan Apr 2015 #141

omg... progressive trade deal... how can they say that? They rail against us for criticizing cui bono Apr 2015 #143

It's obsession BrotherIvan Apr 2015 #147

That is truly sickening. We don't even have all those things in our country any more. cui bono Apr 2015 #148

Please make this an OP. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #115

I fear I know what is going on. SleeplessinSoCal Apr 2015 #10

Most Excellent Post... Thank You !!! WillyT Apr 2015 #12

ever have that moment of clarity? SleeplessinSoCal Apr 2015 #52

"FDR didn't have to contend with globalization." Other than WWII but that was a different kind of pampango Apr 2015 #56

Biggest Obama supporter I know, me, is against him on this, but I believe that HE Believes NoJusticeNoPeace Apr 2015 #102

Plausible but moreso bordering on chicken-littlist to me. nt ChisolmTrailDem Apr 2015 #105

Only alternative is Obama is knowingly and intentionally signing us up for hell and I NoJusticeNoPeace Apr 2015 #107

Me neither, hence my talk-me-down-from-the-ledge post. Thanks, NJNP! nt ChisolmTrailDem Apr 2015 #108

Oh, you are in that camp, cool. I gotta tell ya, this is a head scratcher, part of me wants to NoJusticeNoPeace Apr 2015 #110

Forcing an increase in minimum wage has got to be an Obama priority. SleeplessinSoCal Apr 2015 #117

Nah, the TPP isn't about trade. jeff47 Apr 2015 #123

If we really wanted to solve any of this we put tariffs back while investing in mfg here NoJusticeNoPeace Apr 2015 #124

Bah! What are you, some sort of communist?! jeff47 Apr 2015 #125

Remember when if you had a transistor radio that said "Made In Japan" it meant it was NoJusticeNoPeace Apr 2015 #126

Instead of wasting our money on WAR, bvar22 Apr 2015 #144

Might be SusanCalvin Apr 2015 #136

Very interesting ideas. Jackpine Radical Apr 2015 #29

You are right. Note that if Wall Street wasn't making a shitload of money from all of that GoneFishin Apr 2015 #31

+ 1000 red dog 1 Apr 2015 #38

+ a gazillion! RiverLover Apr 2015 #41

i'm not all that lucid normally. SleeplessinSoCal Apr 2015 #53

What's Good for Walmart is Good for Shareholders. Octafish Apr 2015 #67

+ 1000 There are those who assist and there are those who resist. raouldukelives Apr 2015 #77

+100000 nashville_brook Apr 2015 #80

I've had this epiphany as well. When I realized that I was part of the ownership society for the Ed Suspicious Apr 2015 #109

right on! SleeplessinSoCal Apr 2015 #119

+1 cui bono Apr 2015 #146

K&R woo me with science Apr 2015 #11

http://media.salon.com/2013/04/obama_barbara_bush.jpg blkmusclmachine Apr 2015 #16

Whoa! Really disturbing. FiveGoodMen Apr 2015 #94

To say that I am disappointed about this battle is an understatement. Curmudgeoness Apr 2015 #18

+ 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!! WillyT Apr 2015 #20

I have defended him in the past - now I am ready to cry. Cry for him and us. He could have done jwirr Apr 2015 #39

Hear, hear... dorkzilla Apr 2015 #72

Feigned impotence whenever the cause is for the 99%. It's like watching an actor in a B movie GoneFishin Apr 2015 #19

+ 1,000,000,000 - Perfect !!! WillyT Apr 2015 #21

Medicare for all and prosecution of the architects of the gulf war would have been plenty Doctor_J Apr 2015 #32

Not only because of a lack of enthusiasm, but likely because of deliberate undermining GoneFishin Apr 2015 #36

I am so with you! This one alone would have changed history. Enthusiast Apr 2015 #66

Exactly! ctsnowman Apr 2015 #73

I was silly enough to think he was going to fight for such things, which is why I supported him. Dark n Stormy Knight Apr 2015 #100

I was fooled one time. But the next time I voted for none of the above in that box. GoneFishin Apr 2015 #101

I'd like to add some daredtowork Apr 2015 #113

Those are the types of improvements that I hoped I was voting for the first time. GoneFishin Apr 2015 #132

Just imagine "Hope and Change"...lol. nt daredtowork Apr 2015 #135

Time for a candidate to run on repeal of the TPP! tonybgood Apr 2015 #22

That's clever proactive thinking. Unfortunately they are trying to make it impossible to GoneFishin Apr 2015 #27

A liberal couldn't get elected President. The military/industrial complex won't let it happen. jalan48 Apr 2015 #24

What, do they control your vote? Scootaloo Apr 2015 #54

Yes, they do. Fuddnik Apr 2015 #71

It controls our government. A liberal winning would have little effect on the status quo I believe. jalan48 Apr 2015 #92

No. I don't believe that. bvar22 Apr 2015 #128

I wish I shared your optimism. Do you really think any new President could 'clean house' with our jalan48 Apr 2015 #131

Pat Robertson has millions of (proxy) votes FiveGoodMen Apr 2015 #95

Sherrod Brown makes excellent points on this. suffragette Apr 2015 #25

HUGE K&R red dog 1 Apr 2015 #33

This says it all, shameful. Broward Apr 2015 #34

This is the battle he chooses to fight. Autumn Apr 2015 #44

true colors come shining through Skittles Apr 2015 #45

Wow. That certainly is stunning. cui bono Apr 2015 #50

^^^^^perfect^^^^^ Enthusiast Apr 2015 #68

+1 Marr Apr 2015 #97

I wish he had fought this hard for the Public Option! sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #51

Emma...seems there ARE some things worth fighting for demwing Apr 2015 #62

shameful and sickening that this is what he chooses to fight for cali Apr 2015 #55

We would have a public option right now if the President had shown the passion Enthusiast Apr 2015 #57

Would the administration have had to lobby Brown on the ACA Progressive dog Apr 2015 #64

Stupid Democrats Don't See Strategic Pivot to Superprofits Octafish Apr 2015 #65

I'll say it again. tomsaiditagain Apr 2015 #70

pull my strings father founding Apr 2015 #75

Kicked! ibewlu606 Apr 2015 #76

That's my Senator! riqster Apr 2015 #78

Amazing that all of the sudden the republicans aren't going to obstruct his every effort RedCappedBandit Apr 2015 #82

This has been clear about Obama from far outside Washington since he Marr Apr 2015 #84

Casey is ready for Hillary biglib63 Apr 2015 #85

anybody have the jury results? frylock Apr 2015 #89

No one has come out to give any good reasons to support this corporate piece of crap. nm rhett o rick Apr 2015 #90

Kickin' Faux pas Apr 2015 #91

Noticeably absent from these threads are those who want to "wait and see" riderinthestorm Apr 2015 #103

Where was that cajoling and lobbying during ACA debate? n/t lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #104

The prez is showing his true corporate colors. polichick Apr 2015 #111

The Obama Acolytes DID promise that we would see the REAL OBama after 2012 election. bvar22 Apr 2015 #145

what should President Obama do? pass up the trade opportunity with the 'dozen Pacific Rim nations? Sunlei Apr 2015 #114

I've been hearing the same promises about each and every one of the previous fake free trade Elwood P Dowd Apr 2015 #120

Your argument would make sense if there were any significant trade barriers. jeff47 Apr 2015 #122

I wish he had worked THAT hard for a Public Option. bvar22 Apr 2015 #121

PM kick for those who missed this.... riderinthestorm Apr 2015 #133