General Discussion

still_one

(98,883 posts)

30. Everyone has the right to an opinion, and to critisize it. However, when the final document is made

Sat Apr 25, 2015, 04:34 PM

Apr 2015

Public, and it will be contrary to some posts indicating otherwise, a more comprehensive and valid pro or con arguments can be made

This is not unlike the Iran negotiating framework. The framework does not represent the final agreement, that is being negotiated, so concerns by some that not enough protections are built into it or verifications are premature to say the least

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You clueless Warren lovers don't get it.......... [View all] Logical Apr 2015 OP

Why do volunteers and donors from Organizing for Action get to tell him whats wrong with it Autumn Apr 2015 #1

Trying to be Logical, I guess!!! elleng Apr 2015 #2

why is it necessary to fabricate the argument in scorn, snark, mocking, hyperbole or whatever? seabeyond Apr 2015 #3

Because some people need hit over the head to understand silly arguments! nt Logical Apr 2015 #5

not if it is a fabricated argument. just swinging at thin air. seabeyond Apr 2015 #9

Nope, many here saying it is not final so she is off base complaining. nt Logical Apr 2015 #10

about it being secret... right? think you should finish that sentence. i dunno, on the side seabeyond Apr 2015 #11

It is secret. It's been secret for years. cui bono Apr 2015 #36

this... is what i am talking about. that is a disingenuous argument. it turns me off. seabeyond Apr 2015 #38

No, it's not a disingenuous argument. We wouldn't be discussing the TPP at all if wikileaks hadn't cui bono Apr 2015 #56

It's not a fabricated argument and it's analogous to what is going on here on DU. cui bono Apr 2015 #35

they were not arguing that it cannot be criticized, but that it is secret, no info, people gagged, seabeyond Apr 2015 #37

Word. I've almost lost all interest for this topic. cheapdate Apr 2015 #44

You got that right. And the fact that the biggest shit stirrers and BSers here are absolutely Number23 Apr 2015 #61

you got that right. i am even on tpp fail side. and still, i am right where you are. nt seabeyond Apr 2015 #69

the logic of a used car salesman WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2015 #48

Are you for Obama on this argument or Warren? nt Logical Apr 2015 #51

I like... WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2015 #55

You and I are on the same side on this. You did not understand my post was sarcastic. nt Logical Apr 2015 #58

uh...err...so was mine??? WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2015 #68

ok, missed it nt Logical Apr 2015 #70

what side am i on logical? is that all we need, a secret handshake? nt seabeyond Apr 2015 #81

Not even sure what you are talking about. nt Logical Apr 2015 #87

you do not know what i am talking about? you said the two of you are on the same side. seabeyond Apr 2015 #88

I doubt you and I agree on much about TPP or Hillary or Warren. nt Logical Apr 2015 #89

give it a try. why assume? that is what i am battling. if i say anything, you and others put me in seabeyond Apr 2015 #91

We're not clueless Politicalboi Apr 2015 #4

Well, I was defending Warren! Maybe reread it! nt Logical Apr 2015 #7

I think that may have been just a general comment, not an accusation. merrily Apr 2015 #53

I'm thinkin' you forgot to include the "sarcasm" thingy? I read this like a parody.. 2banon Apr 2015 #6

You are correct. Thought it was obvious! nt Logical Apr 2015 #8

Yes, it was to me. :) 2banon Apr 2015 #17

:-) nt Logical Apr 2015 #19

I love the sarcasm.. just would like to point out.... Motown_Johnny Apr 2015 #12

+1000 nt Logical Apr 2015 #13

LOL. Very good. I have been trying to come up with an analogy. rhett o rick Apr 2015 #14

Great points! nt Logical Apr 2015 #16

Silly! If that bag is flaming and you heard a door bell before you saw it at your front door... L0oniX Apr 2015 #25

If my authoritarian leader assured me that the bag didn't contain shit, and therefore I could stomp rhett o rick Apr 2015 #31

+1 an entire shit load. Enthusiast Apr 2015 #73

^^^this^^^ L0oniX Apr 2015 #79

what's the average wage of the countries in this Pacific region? RDANGELO Apr 2015 #15

So true!! nt Logical Apr 2015 #18

$100/hr? Beaverhausen Apr 2015 #20

More sarcasm and confabulation akin to what the TPP supporters are saying riderinthestorm Apr 2015 #22

Actually not. Looks like it's been edited. Beaverhausen Apr 2015 #24

Ah well. riderinthestorm Apr 2015 #28

You've been reading way too many Manny ops. L0oniX Apr 2015 #21

You mean more than one? rhett o rick Apr 2015 #92

Obama got this, you heard? bigwillq Apr 2015 #23

More 3D chess I assume? nt Logical Apr 2015 #26

You laugh now but I swear it's real! L0oniX Apr 2015 #32

I don't disagree! nt Logical Apr 2015 #66

You forgot to state that sadoldgirl Apr 2015 #27

Don't economics professors have tools to figure this out... L0oniX Apr 2015 #33

You'll shoot your eye out, kid. nt Buns_of_Fire Apr 2015 #46

Let's see, I can name economic professors that I have confidence in you would not agree with, so still_one Apr 2015 #34

We won't have the votes to stop it so what difference does the 90 days to read and debate make? TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #78

We mixed it up the other day and now I'm recing your post whatchamacallit Apr 2015 #29

Everyone has the right to an opinion, and to critisize it. However, when the final document is made still_one Apr 2015 #30

Will it be made public before it's signed? sendit Apr 2015 #43

Yes, at least as reported by the New York Times still_one Apr 2015 #59

So if it does have some of the things that have been leaked in the final sendit Apr 2015 #39

For me I need to see where and what those items are. It should be noted that China is not part of still_one Apr 2015 #62

Here's an idea. Why not upload it onto the White House web site so we can all read it? Vinca Apr 2015 #40

Will they do that before he signs it? sendit Apr 2015 #42

Yes. See post 59 still_one Apr 2015 #63

It doesn't matter, we do not have the votes to stop passage. The only practical check available is TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #80

+1000 nt Logical Apr 2015 #49

Remember when Obama said he was "against" Citizens United??? blkmusclmachine Apr 2015 #41

Good one! nt Logical Apr 2015 #52

Let me understand this, are you blaming Obama for Citizens United? still_one Apr 2015 #64

I'm Ready For Oligarchy - Are You? - Support Obama On TPP - The 1% Obviously Need More Wealth cantbeserious Apr 2015 #45

Actually, Hillary wants Obama to clear this so TWO Clintons aren't responsible for screwing workers. Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2015 #47

Bottom line: Warren called Obama's bluff WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2015 #50

That is awesome. If there's not an OP on this you should post one. n/t cui bono Apr 2015 #57

So if he has thoroughly read what's there, he should insist it be make public instead Cleita Apr 2015 #54

True, it would make it simple. nt Logical Apr 2015 #60

It is going to be made public before the debate or vote. See post 59. still_one Apr 2015 #67

So what? We then would not have enough votes to do shit about it. TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #82

Don't trade agreements require 2/3 vote? still_one Apr 2015 #84

They SHOULD but we have somehow scrapped the treaty process prescribed in the Constitution TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #85

Geez, then my assumptions were not correct. Then unless a miracle happens, if the deal is bad still_one Apr 2015 #86

Lulz Jesus Malverde Apr 2015 #65

Results... Major Nikon Apr 2015 #71

Wow, I guess someone does not know I was supporting Warren supporters. Weird. Thanks for posting. nt Logical Apr 2015 #72

I cannot believe anybody did not know that was snark. Yikes!!!!!!! djean111 Apr 2015 #76

Not sure why Obama is acting like this about the TPP. Really defensive. nt Logical Apr 2015 #77

Well done, Logical! Enthusiast Apr 2015 #74

Thanks!! :-) Logical Apr 2015 #75

Illogical rock Apr 2015 #83

Are we allowed to criticize the part about who and what is keeping us from seeing it? L0oniX Apr 2015 #93

Of course, criticize anything but the pig which you cannot see rock Apr 2015 #95

Your logic is faulty, maybe you should draw a Venn diagram doxyluv13 Apr 2015 #90

Bwahahah so reading the agreement is not worth it because it's not the only source of knowledge? L0oniX Apr 2015 #94