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In reply to the discussion: This message was self-deleted by its author [View all]NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)93. This thread is now closed for business. Please look for my other fine articles like this one:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026572902
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The Atlantic: The Clash Over Clinton's CashAnd Why it Matters
Call me a concern troll, but this is what we're facing.
-- Appearance of conflict between serving as SOS and running a Foundation that gets donations from sensitive "players" in sensitive nations.
-- Not reporting these as requested by the Potus.
-- And lost or deleted emails that we do or don't know were associated with any of these things.
There doesn't have to have been any actual quid pro quo for it to look really careless at least, and scandalous.
We Democrats really need to think long and hard about whether she can win, and whether or not we're well served ignoring alternative candidates.
I happen to feel that she's not the best choice and, further, I think she'll lose the general election if she wins the primary.
Related:
The Atlantic "A Quick Guide to the Questions About Clinton Cash"
The Atlantic: Hillary's Campaign Is Built on a Shaky Foundation
Run away.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Atlantic: The Clash Over Clinton's CashAnd Why it Matters
Call me a concern troll, but this is what we're facing.
-- Appearance of conflict between serving as SOS and running a Foundation that gets donations from sensitive "players" in sensitive nations.
-- Not reporting these as requested by the Potus.
-- And lost or deleted emails that we do or don't know were associated with any of these things.
There doesn't have to have been any actual quid pro quo for it to look really careless at least, and scandalous.
We Democrats really need to think long and hard about whether she can win, and whether or not we're well served ignoring alternative candidates.
I happen to feel that she's not the best choice and, further, I think she'll lose the general election if she wins the primary.
The Clash Over Clinton's CashAnd Why it Matters
If the whiff of corruption and deceit linger about the Clinton candidacy past election day, is she really the candidate that Democrats want in 2016?
David Frum Apr 25, 2015
Today was the latest installment of the never-ending Clinton scandal saga, but it wont be the last. Yet in some ways, the specifics are a distraction. The sale of access was designed into the post-2001 Clinton family finances from the start. Probably nobody will ever prove that this quid led to that quo but theres about a quarter-billion-dollar of quid heaped in plain sight and an equally impressive pile of quo, and its all been visible for years to anyone who cared to notice. As Jonathan Chait, who is no right-wing noise-machine operator, complained: The Clintons have been disorganized and greedy.
All of this amounts to diddly-squat, pronounced long-time Clinton associate James Carville when news broke that Hillary Clinton had erased huge numbers of emails. That may not be true: If any of the conduct in question proves illegal, destroying relevant records may also have run afoul of the law.
But Carvilles dismissal is right as a matter of politics. Scandals, even quite bad ones, tend not to matter as much as they used to, unless the person at the center is sentenced to prison. The impulse to rally to the team is strong, and this impulse has been used shrewdly by the Clinton family over the course of their long, ethically challenged career. They will try to exploit that impulse again now.
~snip~
Its not trolling if its true, and nothing is more true in presidential politics right now than this: The whiff of corruption and deceit will linger about the Clinton candidacy to voting dayand waft through the corridors of a Clinton presidency even if the greater potential strength of the Democratic presidential coalition overcomes the bad odor around its candidate. Yet politics wont stop on the first Tuesday of November 2016. The truths exposed about the Clinton candidacy will shape and even define a Clinton presidency. That should matter as much to those who hope for a popular and effective Democratic administration after 2016 as to those who hope to prevent one.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-clash-over-clintons-cashand-why-it-matters/391466/
If the whiff of corruption and deceit linger about the Clinton candidacy past election day, is she really the candidate that Democrats want in 2016?
David Frum Apr 25, 2015
Today was the latest installment of the never-ending Clinton scandal saga, but it wont be the last. Yet in some ways, the specifics are a distraction. The sale of access was designed into the post-2001 Clinton family finances from the start. Probably nobody will ever prove that this quid led to that quo but theres about a quarter-billion-dollar of quid heaped in plain sight and an equally impressive pile of quo, and its all been visible for years to anyone who cared to notice. As Jonathan Chait, who is no right-wing noise-machine operator, complained: The Clintons have been disorganized and greedy.
All of this amounts to diddly-squat, pronounced long-time Clinton associate James Carville when news broke that Hillary Clinton had erased huge numbers of emails. That may not be true: If any of the conduct in question proves illegal, destroying relevant records may also have run afoul of the law.
But Carvilles dismissal is right as a matter of politics. Scandals, even quite bad ones, tend not to matter as much as they used to, unless the person at the center is sentenced to prison. The impulse to rally to the team is strong, and this impulse has been used shrewdly by the Clinton family over the course of their long, ethically challenged career. They will try to exploit that impulse again now.
~snip~
Its not trolling if its true, and nothing is more true in presidential politics right now than this: The whiff of corruption and deceit will linger about the Clinton candidacy to voting dayand waft through the corridors of a Clinton presidency even if the greater potential strength of the Democratic presidential coalition overcomes the bad odor around its candidate. Yet politics wont stop on the first Tuesday of November 2016. The truths exposed about the Clinton candidacy will shape and even define a Clinton presidency. That should matter as much to those who hope for a popular and effective Democratic administration after 2016 as to those who hope to prevent one.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-clash-over-clintons-cashand-why-it-matters/391466/
Related:
The Atlantic "A Quick Guide to the Questions About Clinton Cash"
The Atlantic: Hillary's Campaign Is Built on a Shaky Foundation
Run away.
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Long before any of these articles, and as far back as 1991, I was shaking my head at the Clintons.
NYC_SKP
Apr 2015
#11
Excuse me - but you're quoting David fuckin' Frum?!? Former speechwriter for GW Bush?!?
scarletwoman
Apr 2015
#3
The damage control had better start soon. Thus far I don't see anyone posting a legitimate defense.
NYC_SKP
Apr 2015
#6
There is no shame.. I'm almost embarassed for those who fall for this crap. nt
boston bean
Apr 2015
#39
Were I a "journalist" with any kind of access, here's what I'd be doing...
cherokeeprogressive
Apr 2015
#10
I've tried to do that and it never ends up looking good for the fomer Secretary or the Foundation.
NYC_SKP
Apr 2015
#12
They swift boated John Kerry. The Rethugs will swift boat anyone. If Elizabeth Warren runs,
pnwmom
Apr 2015
#17
I'm not disagreeing with you per se, but, how do you know Senator Warren has nothing
DonViejo
Apr 2015
#48
I think she's enough of a threat that any skeletons would have by now been revealed.
NYC_SKP
Apr 2015
#71
LoL. They don't need any truth. They make shit up. As in Clinton Cash,
misterhighwasted
Apr 2015
#50
You won't see me endorsing any republican plan to defeat the democratic party in 2016
workinclasszero
Apr 2015
#28
We are in primary season. Defend your candidate if you can and I'll support others coming in.
NYC_SKP
Apr 2015
#32
No, NYC_SKP. I neither like nor cite people who write paeans to George Walker Bush...
DemocratSinceBirth
Apr 2015
#29
Exactly, and the other Atlantic article wasn't nearly as subjective as Frum's.
DemocratSinceBirth
Apr 2015
#34
I know, right? Now this right here is the time to learn how to defend this candidate.
NYC_SKP
Apr 2015
#31
"Oh, and, David Frum is a real case, but he manages to have a career. Go figure! "
DemocratSinceBirth
Apr 2015
#36
She might win Arkansas, West Virginia, and Kentucky if the GOP picks a black dude.
NYC_SKP
Apr 2015
#42
3rd Article is Better & NOT by Frum: "Hillary's Campaign Is Built on a Shaky Foundation"
KoKo
Apr 2015
#43
THX- You can have an International Foundation or you can be Secretary of State. You can't have both.
NYC_SKP
Apr 2015
#44
Put this together with missing emails, private server, WHILE she was SOS and Foundation, well....
NYC_SKP
Apr 2015
#47
Not trying to, but you would do well to imagine what mainstream Americans will make of it.
NYC_SKP
Apr 2015
#74
I can attest that NYC_SKP has no right wing leanings. That I would swear to...
DemocratSinceBirth
Apr 2015
#65
I see a lot of garbage flying but I don't see any discrediting of her experience and the afvocating
Thinkingabout
Apr 2015
#61
Y'all need to gear up for more of that. The Atlantic ain't The Blaze. Come'on now, don't shoot me!
NYC_SKP
Apr 2015
#78