General Discussion

pampango

(24,692 posts)

25. If past international negotiations/agreements did not work as planned, the progressive approach is

Sat May 2, 2015, 07:08 AM

May 2015

to stop negotiating with other countries and have the US act unilaterally. Withdraw from NAFTA and other trade agreements as well as the WTO. (No one is going to trust "renegotiation" even though that sounds good.)

Tell other countries that the US had decided to impose pro-American trading rules on the world. FDR and Truman had a excellent opportunity to do this when American power was at its zenith and blew it with their stupid "multilateralist" ITO and GATT. (Oh, and thank you republicans for killing the ITO in the Senate or this 'multilateralist' crap would have been even worse than it is. If only you had won control of congress in time to kill GATT as well. Oh well.)

We hope you understand what we are doing with these new rules - but we really don't care whether you do or not. We are big and strong. You? Not so much.

Acting unilaterally without respect to what other countries want may have a conservative history to it but the world should trust us on this one. We know this sounds like the trading world of Coolidge/Hoover that FDR thought he had banished forever, but trust us. This is a progressive version of C/H unilateralism on trade whether you can tell the difference or not.

However (and we hate to go all 'republican' on you) we really don't care whether you trust us or not. We are doing what we think is in our national interest and you can't stop us. And don't give us that ol' "America the bully" or "American exceptionalism" stuff! Have you seen how many planes and ships we have compared to you? We are 'exceptional'! No one wastes money on the military like we do! And "bully" is in the eye of the beholder and the 'beholder' is, by definition, weaker so who really cares!

Negotiations are for weak liberals! Taking unilateral action is for strong conservatives and progressives! So, according to these rules, anyone who goes the "international negotiation route" to improve things is, at best, a 'weak liberal' but, more likely, is a 'corporate sellout', corrupt politician selling his support for a comfortable retirement.

TWP

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Highlight:

A Simple Chart to Illustrate How the TPP Improves on NAFTA [View all] BlueCaliDem May 2015 OP

simple chart for those unable to research and learn the realities cali May 2015 #1

The environmentalist have legit reasons... MaggieD May 2015 #41

I agree Andy823 May 2015 #51

The problem with that chart is tkmorris May 2015 #2

Absolutely correct! rock May 2015 #52

Logical fallacy zipplewrath May 2015 #3

Please tell me this is a joke or satire ellenrr May 2015 #4

Nope. Well, maybe for people who have trouble believing that this president actually BlueCaliDem May 2015 #13

I'm glad to know you. You're the first person i met who actually believes this. ellenrr May 2015 #18

Well meet another MaggieD May 2015 #42

I believe it because it's true - documented and all. BlueCaliDem May 2015 #43

Oy. AtomicKitten May 2015 #5

I trust the information coming out from Camp Obama, all the other camps have so many differing agendas. Fred Sanders May 2015 #6

That is such nonsense. Daemonaquila May 2015 #7

The problem with your post is, you're thinking from the fallacy that the TPP is a done deal. BlueCaliDem May 2015 #14

So drafts we're not allowed to see are not proof tblue May 2015 #54

That "PR inforgraphic" was necessary *after* the leaks. People are getting the wrong idea BlueCaliDem May 2015 #63

only 13 dem reps have come out in favor of the tpa which is indicative of support for the tpp cali May 2015 #71

Oh FFS! Nt Logical May 2015 #8

are you fucking kidding me? Tpp- bad for labor, ellenrr May 2015 #9

No. Not kidding. And consider the source you've linked to. It's a Union and Unions aren't BlueCaliDem May 2015 #44

Simple chart. I think it is too simple. Example: Protect our oceans. When we ask to see these laws jwirr May 2015 #10

The chart is straight from the White House site. It's made simple for the people currently in freak- BlueCaliDem May 2015 #46

No we cannot wait. He wants the fast-track before we see the finished docs for a reason. Why jwirr May 2015 #48

Why not give this president the same courtesy as we've given past presidents? Why is he different BlueCaliDem May 2015 #67

I think I read that we did not give Bill Clinton fast track when he was negotiating NAFTA. I may be jwirr May 2015 #70

I believe he had fast track for NAFTA but it expired after that and the republican congress refused pampango May 2015 #72

Okay. Thanks for the correction. jwirr May 2015 #73

Who exactly is going to enforce these things? DefenseLawyer May 2015 #11

Exactly n2doc May 2015 #17

Maybe this is an answer to how to use our military in other ways? jwirr May 2015 #50

You left out these......... Elwood P Dowd May 2015 #12

Just more take my word for it without proof. n/t betterdemsonly May 2015 #15

... PowerToThePeople May 2015 #16

That is a simple chart. morningfog May 2015 #19

Indeed. woo me with science May 2015 #45

And the exact reason that this is being done the way it is madokie May 2015 #20

But then, several TPP member nations don't seem to see labor and human rights HereSince1628 May 2015 #21

Should we only put labor and human rights into agreements with countries that already pampango May 2015 #35

Thanks BCD, very cool ucrdem May 2015 #22

Lololol...what a load of BS. Katashi_itto May 2015 #23

Don't you have waffles to make? BlueCaliDem May 2015 #47

here's my favorite chart on TTP propoganda... KG May 2015 #24

If past international negotiations/agreements did not work as planned, the progressive approach is pampango May 2015 #25

Good chart. Folks who are against TPP, aren't going to read it because by golly it will ship all Hoyt May 2015 #26

Read what? That conclusory chart? morningfog May 2015 #27

anti Tpp stuff is very conclusory treestar May 2015 #28

I can't imagine why anyone would think that the morningfog May 2015 #29

but not to the point where they actively treestar May 2015 #32

For real. And some people think they are actually denying science. raouldukelives May 2015 #39

no. at least for me it's based more on the reality that to corporations cali May 2015 #30

^^^this^^^ tblue May 2015 #55

No, it is based on using trade policy as foreign policy is a mistake. Motown_Johnny May 2015 #31

Corporatists need us to be middle class treestar May 2015 #33

That is what the police state is for, or haven't you noticed Motown_Johnny May 2015 #34

They would rather not have to do that treestar May 2015 #36

Why can't "Democrats" just look at Obama's successful KORUS MannyGoldstein May 2015 #37

KORUS is actually a good alliance. Hoyt May 2015 #53

For someone. MannyGoldstein May 2015 #57

They calculate lost jobs based upon a trade deficit. Truth is, a trade Hoyt May 2015 #58

Kick and happy to recommend. lamp_shade May 2015 #38

Thanks, LP. BlueCaliDem May 2015 #56

Objectively it IS an improvement on NAFTA MaggieD May 2015 #40

How would YOU know, MaggieD? cali May 2015 #49

And how do you know it will be awful? As to your comments about environmental Hoyt May 2015 #59

lol. You clearly know nothing about NRDC cali May 2015 #60

LMAO. They have members and seek donations. Hence, everything is a potential crisis. Hoyt May 2015 #61

right. Because you would know more than NRDC, The Sierra Club cali May 2015 #62

Sierra club has members. Hence, everything has to be a crisis. Hoyt May 2015 #66

There is a shit ton of info available MaggieD May 2015 #74

+1000000000000 Hoyt May 2015 #80

you have been taken to the woodshed, Mags. Did you forget your little exchanges cali May 2015 #81

You're welcome to your opinion MaggieD May 2015 #83

Obama: "Just try this one more time. I promise this time it will taste different." Elwood P Dowd May 2015 #64

Thesis statement of the dynamic that's going on now n/t Populist_Prole May 2015 #65

if this agreement includes a commitment to transparency... rbnyc May 2015 #68

When there is a final agreement, assuming it is finalized, you'll see it well before Congress votes. Hoyt May 2015 #69

This is insulting. 'Bans workplace discrimination'? That's utter nonsense, the US has legal Bluenorthwest May 2015 #75

Where In That Chart Are American Workers Protected? cantbeserious May 2015 #76

Well, I'm convinced. Who needs to see the actual agreement LastLiberal in PalmSprings May 2015 #77

Republicans oppose most of the things in that chart, even in America. subterranean May 2015 #78

Where's the section for "making healthcare affordable"? lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #79

The only way to improve NAFTA is to repeal it. CanonRay May 2015 #82