General Discussion

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)

46. The chart is straight from the White House site. It's made simple for the people currently in freak-

Sat May 2, 2015, 10:50 AM

May 2015

out-mode about leaked DRAFTS of the TPP negotiations. Again, nothing is yet set in stone. And Congress will have more than ample time to review it - 120 days of time (more than any other president was required to allow) after the initial 90 days when the White House presents the deal to Congress for approval. That's 90 + 120 = 210 days! So "fast track" is a misnomer unless people have a strange concept of time what "fast" is.

And exactly how are these going to be enforced?

Via the ISDS. But those provisions have to have "teeth", which is currently missing in prior trade deals.

Plus none of them address the leaked parts that have us so upset.

Because those were DRAFTS. What people are freaking out over is part of the sausage-making process. Again, nothing is set in stone, nothing is a "done deal", and "fast track" isn't all that fast.

Can we at least wait until the negotiations have been finalized and the package delivered to Congress for their 210 days of review before we freak out? Hasn't this president at least earned that much?

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Highlight:

A Simple Chart to Illustrate How the TPP Improves on NAFTA [View all] BlueCaliDem May 2015 OP

simple chart for those unable to research and learn the realities cali May 2015 #1

The environmentalist have legit reasons... MaggieD May 2015 #41

I agree Andy823 May 2015 #51

The problem with that chart is tkmorris May 2015 #2

Absolutely correct! rock May 2015 #52

Logical fallacy zipplewrath May 2015 #3

Please tell me this is a joke or satire ellenrr May 2015 #4

Nope. Well, maybe for people who have trouble believing that this president actually BlueCaliDem May 2015 #13

I'm glad to know you. You're the first person i met who actually believes this. ellenrr May 2015 #18

Well meet another MaggieD May 2015 #42

I believe it because it's true - documented and all. BlueCaliDem May 2015 #43

Oy. AtomicKitten May 2015 #5

I trust the information coming out from Camp Obama, all the other camps have so many differing agendas. Fred Sanders May 2015 #6

That is such nonsense. Daemonaquila May 2015 #7

The problem with your post is, you're thinking from the fallacy that the TPP is a done deal. BlueCaliDem May 2015 #14

So drafts we're not allowed to see are not proof tblue May 2015 #54

That "PR inforgraphic" was necessary *after* the leaks. People are getting the wrong idea BlueCaliDem May 2015 #63

only 13 dem reps have come out in favor of the tpa which is indicative of support for the tpp cali May 2015 #71

Oh FFS! Nt Logical May 2015 #8

are you fucking kidding me? Tpp- bad for labor, ellenrr May 2015 #9

No. Not kidding. And consider the source you've linked to. It's a Union and Unions aren't BlueCaliDem May 2015 #44

Simple chart. I think it is too simple. Example: Protect our oceans. When we ask to see these laws jwirr May 2015 #10

The chart is straight from the White House site. It's made simple for the people currently in freak- BlueCaliDem May 2015 #46

No we cannot wait. He wants the fast-track before we see the finished docs for a reason. Why jwirr May 2015 #48

Why not give this president the same courtesy as we've given past presidents? Why is he different BlueCaliDem May 2015 #67

I think I read that we did not give Bill Clinton fast track when he was negotiating NAFTA. I may be jwirr May 2015 #70

I believe he had fast track for NAFTA but it expired after that and the republican congress refused pampango May 2015 #72

Okay. Thanks for the correction. jwirr May 2015 #73

Who exactly is going to enforce these things? DefenseLawyer May 2015 #11

Exactly n2doc May 2015 #17

Maybe this is an answer to how to use our military in other ways? jwirr May 2015 #50

You left out these......... Elwood P Dowd May 2015 #12

Just more take my word for it without proof. n/t betterdemsonly May 2015 #15

... PowerToThePeople May 2015 #16

That is a simple chart. morningfog May 2015 #19

Indeed. woo me with science May 2015 #45

And the exact reason that this is being done the way it is madokie May 2015 #20

But then, several TPP member nations don't seem to see labor and human rights HereSince1628 May 2015 #21

Should we only put labor and human rights into agreements with countries that already pampango May 2015 #35

Thanks BCD, very cool ucrdem May 2015 #22

Lololol...what a load of BS. Katashi_itto May 2015 #23

Don't you have waffles to make? BlueCaliDem May 2015 #47

here's my favorite chart on TTP propoganda... KG May 2015 #24

If past international negotiations/agreements did not work as planned, the progressive approach is pampango May 2015 #25

Good chart. Folks who are against TPP, aren't going to read it because by golly it will ship all Hoyt May 2015 #26

Read what? That conclusory chart? morningfog May 2015 #27

anti Tpp stuff is very conclusory treestar May 2015 #28

I can't imagine why anyone would think that the morningfog May 2015 #29

but not to the point where they actively treestar May 2015 #32

For real. And some people think they are actually denying science. raouldukelives May 2015 #39

no. at least for me it's based more on the reality that to corporations cali May 2015 #30

^^^this^^^ tblue May 2015 #55

No, it is based on using trade policy as foreign policy is a mistake. Motown_Johnny May 2015 #31

Corporatists need us to be middle class treestar May 2015 #33

That is what the police state is for, or haven't you noticed Motown_Johnny May 2015 #34

They would rather not have to do that treestar May 2015 #36

Why can't "Democrats" just look at Obama's successful KORUS MannyGoldstein May 2015 #37

KORUS is actually a good alliance. Hoyt May 2015 #53

For someone. MannyGoldstein May 2015 #57

They calculate lost jobs based upon a trade deficit. Truth is, a trade Hoyt May 2015 #58

Kick and happy to recommend. lamp_shade May 2015 #38

Thanks, LP. BlueCaliDem May 2015 #56

Objectively it IS an improvement on NAFTA MaggieD May 2015 #40

How would YOU know, MaggieD? cali May 2015 #49

And how do you know it will be awful? As to your comments about environmental Hoyt May 2015 #59

lol. You clearly know nothing about NRDC cali May 2015 #60

LMAO. They have members and seek donations. Hence, everything is a potential crisis. Hoyt May 2015 #61

right. Because you would know more than NRDC, The Sierra Club cali May 2015 #62

Sierra club has members. Hence, everything has to be a crisis. Hoyt May 2015 #66

There is a shit ton of info available MaggieD May 2015 #74

+1000000000000 Hoyt May 2015 #80

you have been taken to the woodshed, Mags. Did you forget your little exchanges cali May 2015 #81

You're welcome to your opinion MaggieD May 2015 #83

Obama: "Just try this one more time. I promise this time it will taste different." Elwood P Dowd May 2015 #64

Thesis statement of the dynamic that's going on now n/t Populist_Prole May 2015 #65

if this agreement includes a commitment to transparency... rbnyc May 2015 #68

When there is a final agreement, assuming it is finalized, you'll see it well before Congress votes. Hoyt May 2015 #69

This is insulting. 'Bans workplace discrimination'? That's utter nonsense, the US has legal Bluenorthwest May 2015 #75

Where In That Chart Are American Workers Protected? cantbeserious May 2015 #76

Well, I'm convinced. Who needs to see the actual agreement LastLiberal in PalmSprings May 2015 #77

Republicans oppose most of the things in that chart, even in America. subterranean May 2015 #78

Where's the section for "making healthcare affordable"? lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #79

The only way to improve NAFTA is to repeal it. CanonRay May 2015 #82