General Discussion

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)

154. Yes, heaven forfend leaders should actually, you know, LEAD.

Mon May 4, 2015, 06:40 AM

May 2015

I cant agree with this OP, enough.

This stupid overly cautious, poll-tested, equivocation and evasion shtick is bad enough from a moral standpoint, but the worst part?

ITS NOT EVEN GOOD POLITICS. it completely disregards where the voters are actually AT, today.

You think the beltway conventional wisdom crowd would have given permission to prominent voices to "evolve" on marriage equality if Millennials hadnt hit them over the head repeatedly with an unmistakeable sea change in public opinion? Fuck no, they'd still be peddling this shit about values voters and "defend traditional marriage" all the while clucking privately about whaf a shame it is, that "political reality" blahblahblah.

Some people really really really think it's still 1992.

GUESS WHAT. It is not 1992 anymore.

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I don't give a shit if it's "naive". I believe a candidate has the obligation to [View all] cali May 2015 OP

Important post. Thank you. woo me with science May 2015 #1

and it's beautiful! Fairgo May 2015 #41

What an excellent post! Enthusiast May 2015 #56

Yes- I totally agree. cilla4progress May 2015 #106

+++++++++ L0oniX May 2015 #115

"I think it's the floor, the bare minimum of what a candidate owes voters ..." Hear, hear! Scuba May 2015 #2

Which of the SEVEN questions forthemiddle May 2015 #3

Good god, that's pathetic. woo me with science May 2015 #21

Evasion - Evasion - Evasion - Evasion - Evasion - Evasion - Evasion -- So Typically HRC cantbeserious May 2015 #50

I hope voters will see through it MissDeeds May 2015 #81

It's obvious just from DU that many don't see through it, at least not yet. n/t A Simple Game May 2015 #99

It is not really obvious to me. merrily May 2015 #151

It's insulting... CoffeeCat May 2015 #146

And not a platform to run on anyway. merrily May 2015 #152

it's just painful- cringeworthy cali May 2015 #54

Her "answer" to the second question was quite Palinesque radiclib May 2015 #93

My favorite... Bjorn Against May 2015 #102

"We have a plan for my plan"? Ken Burch May 2015 #189

Well this one is the classic non answer. zeemike May 2015 #34

And reading all of the questions forthemiddle May 2015 #40

Bad reporter also. Maybe s/he did this, but the reporter should have followed up with the real sabrina 1 May 2015 #117

That kind of reporting is dead. zeemike May 2015 #118

Maybe we'll see it resurrected when they question Sanders. merrily May 2015 #153

Any trade deal "has" to do those things? Which ones actually have? merrily May 2015 #158

"Quality" of her answers aside, how are those "media" questions even relevant to the platform she is merrily May 2015 #150

I said repeatedly my fear was, she'd run on shit like "my most inspirational bible verse" Warren DeMontague May 2015 #155

I see nothing on his presidential website but a donate button..... boston bean May 2015 #4

go to his Senate web site. It's specific as all get out. cali May 2015 #5

Just for you.... TM99 May 2015 #7

That link takes me no where. boston bean May 2015 #8

you can play coy all you like but everyone knows cali May 2015 #10

Pretty much the same with Clinton. She has a long record. boston bean May 2015 #12

Thats the problem. Fuddnik May 2015 #17

No, I don't think so. Her record is strong and liberal and not far off from Bernies... boston bean May 2015 #18

They may close on social issues but miles apart on foreign policy, rhett o rick May 2015 #29

Play the Misogyny Card Often? Ned Flanders May 2015 #101

Got it in one (n/t) bread_and_roses May 2015 #127

baloney cali May 2015 #19

You said it. I've read a lot of interviews with HRC and all I can say is> BlueJazz May 2015 #76

What utter nonsense. woo me with science May 2015 #26

+1 rbnyc May 2015 #135

+10000000 MaggieD May 2015 #75

Then something is wrong with your browser. TM99 May 2015 #11

nope, still doesn't work.. nt boston bean May 2015 #13

Works for me. nt MannyGoldstein May 2015 #15

Works on FireFox and Opera. nm rhett o rick May 2015 #31

Works fine here Plucketeer May 2015 #44

I had to right click on the link and "open in new tab" They_Live May 2015 #46

I tried this and it worked. Iggo May 2015 #57

!!!!!!!!!!!! BrotherIvan May 2015 #88

Try clicking the LEFT mouse button LondonReign2 May 2015 #61

Works for me, too. nt Nay May 2015 #63

It doesn't work for me either. OneCrazyDiamond May 2015 #71

Update your Firefox. TM99 May 2015 #123

It blocks Hillary supporters automatically. L0oniX May 2015 #94

It works perfectly. AgingAmerican May 2015 #97

Still works for me. nt City Lights May 2015 #187

Doesn't seem to work on Safari. nt Bonobo May 2015 #14

There is a problem with Safari try just berniesanders.com/issues/ LiberalArkie May 2015 #20

I use safari, it works for me. eom Raine1967 May 2015 #47

Me, too. lob1 May 2015 #111

Way OT davidpdx May 2015 #164

Chrome comes up with a blank page. GeorgeGist May 2015 #16

+1 uponit7771 May 2015 #84

I am on Chrome. TM99 May 2015 #124

Thanks it worked for me when I refreshed it. zeemike May 2015 #49

Try this one RoccoR5955 May 2015 #77

Stop trying to open it in iTunes. MattSh May 2015 #108

It works fine for me. I'm using Firefox. nt City Lights May 2015 #186

Thanks for the link. dgibby May 2015 #67

Thanks, TM99. Link works fine. nt City Lights May 2015 #185

So how much did you give? n/t A Simple Game May 2015 #100

Try Brunch With Bernie tazkcmo May 2015 #130

But if you take clear positions, then you can't change as easily with the political winds Ms. Toad May 2015 #6

+100000 Hence the striving to avoid any position at all. woo me with science May 2015 #30

When people are paying attention it's not good to look like you reverse yourself... HereSince1628 May 2015 #9

Thanks, good analysis and informative / nt/ PosterChild May 2015 #126

Of course, Walter Mondale did try telling the truth, but too many US tblue37 May 2015 #22

You beat me to it by two minutes skepticscott May 2015 #28

Yep. One thing I fear is that even if we manage to elect Bernie, the entrenched weasels (in both tblue37 May 2015 #53

I don't think this is correct LondonReign2 May 2015 #62

You are right, if course. Haven't quite awakened yet. But the Beltway mouths really tblue37 May 2015 #69

The three most qualified (by ability) presidents in our history 1939 May 2015 #92

nor to Al Gore Duppers May 2015 #98

For many reasons, having zero to do with Mondale's answers, Reagan was unbeatable. merrily May 2015 #156

How nice it would be skepticscott May 2015 #23

Just admit that there is NOTHING ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #24

nope. I would applaud her if she opposed the tpp cali May 2015 #27

Yeah ... Okay. n/t 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #33

+1 betsuni May 2015 #32

I don't have a problem with the vulgarity ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #39

Yes. betsuni May 2015 #43

what a load. I don't even mention anyone in the o cali May 2015 #48

LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #52

ok. you don't have a candidate. and sorry, this is not an atack on cali May 2015 #55

Really? ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #65

^^^THIS^^^ L0oniX May 2015 #95

Since it has been very condescendingly been explained to me that the only important djean111 May 2015 #36

Bullhockey. She should oppose predatory policies woo me with science May 2015 #37

And that has nothing to do with what I posted ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #42

Because she's not trustworthy and her words contradict her record. [nt] Jester Messiah May 2015 #116

Okay. That's fine ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #120

I say loud and clear there is NOTHING HC could say/do that would make me vote for her bread_and_roses May 2015 #128

That is fine ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #136

Except that many of us who find Hillary unacceptable do just that. Jester Messiah May 2015 #141

I am saying the person that I responded to is not a member of the base ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #169

Members of the Democratic Base do not support Bush/Republican/Heritage Foundation policies. sabrina 1 May 2015 #145

Okay. n/t 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #170

After 25 years of Clintons, bvar22 May 2015 #131

Yes. n/t 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #137

I would thrilled to hear Hillary adopt real FDR principles like Bernie. Enthusiast May 2015 #58

And when she has spoken to ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #68

Because she also has a track record. jeff47 May 2015 #89

"real" being the key word. She is not a newcomer to public life. We've seen merrily May 2015 #159

Hillary is a liar Oilwellian May 2015 #104

the OP is about Sanders vs all other candidates. But on the topic of Clinton... magical thyme May 2015 #82

Okay. n/t 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #85

Sure. It all comes down to DUers who criticize Hillary. LOL! merrily May 2015 #157

yeah. Okay. n/t 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #171

Wet finger policies fadedrose May 2015 #25

"There go the people. I must follow them for I am their leader." nt Buns_of_Fire May 2015 #70

The voters as a whole decide treestar May 2015 #35

Kicked! ibewlu606 May 2015 #38

It's not naive. It's the way things were supposed to be. RiverNoord May 2015 #45

Yes. Have you ever expressed disappointment that BO didn't fullfill some campaign promise only GoneFishin May 2015 #51

That is not how large mass media campaigns are done now days Gothmog May 2015 #59

That doesn't matter ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #72

That is not lost on me Gothmog May 2015 #80

Yes, in the real world... Oilwellian May 2015 #109

Voter's should also be smart enough to realize .... raindaddy May 2015 #60

Hold on, are there some people arguing *against* taking clear positions? LondonReign2 May 2015 #64

sure, or rather they're defending not doing so. cali May 2015 #66

I'm starting to think you have... MaggieD May 2015 #73

please point out the strawman cali May 2015 #78

LOL - your posts always give me a laugh MaggieD May 2015 #86

This message was self-deleted by its author cali May 2015 #87

That's really condescending. Do you actually hear yourself? Ed Suspicious May 2015 #122

A far more effective tactic than screaming "strawman!!!!" jeff47 May 2015 #90

It's not a strawman LordGlenconner May 2015 #105

Come on, spill the beans. JEB May 2015 #74

Testify phantom power May 2015 #79

Well said MissDeeds May 2015 #83

Can you whittle that down to 140 characters so I can Tweet it? NYC_SKP May 2015 #91

A candidate should think through his/her position on the issues well JDPriestly May 2015 #96

Especially since she's had 35 years in the public eye to figure out where she stands XemaSab May 2015 #103

And Citizens should have the right to sue politicians nationalize the fed May 2015 #107

To me, this is why Obama's claim to "post-partisanship" was such audacious bullshit Maven May 2015 #110

absafuckinglutely! K&R! Phlem May 2015 #112

Here! Here! Now if everyone will pay attention......... n/t Paper Roses May 2015 #113

I voted for McGovern in my first murielm99 May 2015 #114

Who should you have voted for instead? Iggo May 2015 #121

Humprhrey, Muskie, or murielm99 May 2015 #125

Humphrey couldn't beat Nixon in '68 Art_from_Ark May 2015 #140

3 weeks since official announcement after years of planning, morningfog May 2015 #119

When you are only interested in a few issues it is easy to roll them out on the Thinkingabout May 2015 #129

Almost all of them have to wait until they know more about what their Donors think their Dustlawyer May 2015 #132

Well... Thespian2 May 2015 #133

word! n/t BlancheSplanchnik May 2015 #134

If that's what you want from a presidential candidate, I suggest voting for a computer program. True Blue Door May 2015 #138

Ever read the platform of the RNC? Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #139

I don't recall you demanding the same when Obama was running. SaveOurDemocracy May 2015 #142

You're right. fool me once.... cali May 2015 #149

Is the point of a post like that supposed to be that people have some obligation to keep merrily May 2015 #160

Its NOT asking too much. So frustrating. 7962 May 2015 #143

Democracy, that's where it's at. Lifelong Protester May 2015 #144

what if u give him a shift balenbalen May 2015 #147

She did. She saw the strong insurgency toward Bernie and immediately said silvershadow May 2015 #148

Yes, heaven forfend leaders should actually, you know, LEAD. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #154

Millennials? Not fundraisers and bundlers and lobbyists who were gays and or advocates for merrily May 2015 #161

No. Widespread changes in public opinion which track generationally. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #162

Public opinion changed that much between 2009 and May, 2012? merrily May 2015 #163

I'm not talking about when certain politicians decided it was okay to come out in favor. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #165

Boomers started these fights and pursued them for decades. Legalizaton of pot, equal rights for merrily May 2015 #166

And yet, the numbers don't lie. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #167

First, numbers don't read Obama's mind, either. We've been discussing why he acted, not merrily May 2015 #168

That poll is not an outlier, those results have been repeated many times over. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #173

Where did I say the poll was an outlier? merrily May 2015 #174

Ok Warren DeMontague May 2015 #175

When the Spin Masters of the MSM are in Control.... HoosierCowboy May 2015 #172

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2015 #176

This deserves to stay at the top. nt woo me with science May 2015 #177

kick This is important. woo me with science May 2015 #178

Perfect OP cali. It sure as hell isn't "naive" to expect a candidate to do those things. Autumn May 2015 #179

+100000000000000 woo me with science May 2015 #181

Kick woo me with science May 2015 #180

Seems we're on the same side of this one. Barack_America May 2015 #182

hey, thanks. cali May 2015 #188

Kick. woo me with science May 2015 #183

We are in complete agreement. City Lights May 2015 #184