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True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
69. There's a massive difference between calling someone a racial slur
Mon May 4, 2015, 01:39 PM
May 2015

and simply choosing not to observe someone else's religious taboos.

Granted, most of the images drawn at an event sponsored by those assholes would probably be deliberately racist and bigoted. But said assholes wouldn't be doing it if the other assholes weren't threatening to kill them if they did.

And that oppositional element of the "Doing whatever you're told not to do under threat" is something I understand profoundly. Call it what you will, but when someone tells me not to do something that is my right, and threatens me, I passionately desire to not only do that thing, but to go well beyond it and rub their faces in it. I know it's idiotic, but it's one of the roots of my liberal values - the absolute contempt for bullies.

If the Texas people were just being dicks for the sake of it, insulting a minority religion just because, and people of the religion responded peacefully and assertively, then I would see the Texans as the bullies for being hateful even if only symbolically. But their response to credible threats of murder was drawing pictures, so I have to begrudgingly call that element of their behavior (cartooning) a valid moral stand regardless of its core motives.

In time, people with common sense will not want to hurt Moslems by insulting their Prophet. I hope the time passes quickly before the accusations against ALL of them turns them all into radicals and it would be our own fault for taking the side of the free speech defenders no matter how hurtful the free speech may be to some..


This is a secular country with Constitutional freedom of religion. We as a whole nation are more than willing to defend it to the death against anyone who would change that by force, foreign or domestic, on behalf of extremist religious tyranny. Short of that, anyone who chooses to respond to threats against Muhammed cartoonists by becoming one, has a right to do so and a right to defend and be defended. There is no right to not be offended. Not on anyone's part. Not in a free society.

The fact that many foreign Muslims are so sensitive to this (American Muslims seem much better at handling it) is because Muslim countries punish it as a crime, and plenty of them punish it with death. If they come to a country where that is not the case, they have to adapt. We are not here to adapt to the undemocratic, illiberal ideologies they fled to get here. Either someone is on board with the basic tenets of liberal democracy or they are not, and if they are not, that person needs to leave and return to a country where their views are practiced.

Free speech is not a custom of this country, it is this country. So there will be no accommodations on this point: Everyone who wants to will draw Muhammed, as respectfully or as grotesquely as they please, and those offended by it may protest and speak their own piece, draw their own caricatures, hold their own peaceful events, and that's it. That's what happens in a freedom-loving society, and that's the only state of affairs we will tolerate. American Muslims seem to be okay with that in general, even though it irks them. They can irk the cartoonists right back in similar form. There are plenty of buttons to push to piss off a Texas Republican.

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This x infinity. Well said NT. Ex Lurker May 2015 #1
fundie religions attract lunatics gwheezie May 2015 #2
You know the only people killed were the suspects, right? Scootaloo May 2015 #3
That's good to know. It wasn't clear earlier. True Blue Door May 2015 #10
You know what bothers me? Scootaloo May 2015 #18
Tolerance and sympathy for religious madmen is acceptable because... police brutality? Kurska May 2015 #22
I don't recall saying it was acceptable. Scootaloo May 2015 #30
You've vented more spleen at the OP than you have at the gunman. Kurska May 2015 #62
Well, they failed and are now very dead. Scootaloo May 2015 #73
I would usually view attempted murder as a more serious offense than disagreeing with me. Kurska May 2015 #74
By far. Which is why those two dudes are dead Scootaloo May 2015 #75
There's a word for that kind of comment: "Yeahbutting." True Blue Door May 2015 #29
Not at all Scootaloo May 2015 #31
So you deny yeahbutting, then immediately yeahbut. True Blue Door May 2015 #35
Only if "yeahbut" is a meaningless neologism Scootaloo May 2015 #43
A "yeahbut" is what happens when bigotry is confronted by inconvenient reality. True Blue Door May 2015 #44
You realize you just typed five brief paragraphs of nothing, right? Scootaloo May 2015 #45
I took the nothing that you're saying and ran with it. True Blue Door May 2015 #46
Nope. I simply find this "discussion" repetitious and obnoxious Scootaloo May 2015 #47
This is all projection, repeated immediately after I just said the same things to YOU: True Blue Door May 2015 #51
No, it's actual quotes from your posts, where you squawk like Joseph Farah Scootaloo May 2015 #54
What's that childhood game where you just randomly insert words into sentences? True Blue Door May 2015 #58
Mad Libs!! PeaceNikki May 2015 #59
Ahhhh, yeah that's the one. True Blue Door May 2015 #60
Seems like an ODDLY appropriate name, no? PeaceNikki May 2015 #61
Yes, indeed. True Blue Door May 2015 #63
That post of yours IS a Gish gallop Yorktown May 2015 #83
The attackers shot an unarmed security guard. SunSeeker May 2015 #20
I love how you immediately try to make like I said it was okay Scootaloo May 2015 #21
You ignore that the attackers shot someone. SunSeeker May 2015 #26
I do not think a calf wound is worthy of an existential "clash of civilizations" rant. Scootaloo May 2015 #32
A bullet to the leg is worth at least a rant. SunSeeker May 2015 #72
Linking the two is emminently reasonable and justified muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #50
Really? I was aiming for tired and fed-up Scootaloo May 2015 #53
Who killed them? treestar May 2015 #55
My understanding is that it was the police, yeah Scootaloo May 2015 #57
K & R nt okaawhatever May 2015 #4
So who won the contest? JaneyVee May 2015 #5
Everyone attending. This was their jackpot. Scootaloo May 2015 #6
+1 beam me up scottie May 2015 #13
+1 jeff47 May 2015 #68
not sure. linuxman May 2015 #41
Gellar. Just the way she intended to. hifiguy May 2015 #70
Thank you. Thank you. JDPriestly May 2015 #7
Good rant there. n/t freshwest May 2015 #8
Thank you. It is also not "liberalism" to accept misogyny in certain other foreign cultures pnwmom May 2015 #9
Very important points. Either we believe in our own values or we don't. True Blue Door May 2015 #12
It's even more odd that our Government, which speaks for us, has so many allies whose cultures sabrina 1 May 2015 #15
Some have been speaking out for decades. pnwmom May 2015 #17
Hillary Clinton agrees with you! bettyellen May 2015 #79
Great point. romanic May 2015 #81
I don't believe in absolutes, sorry Warpy May 2015 #11
The Christians who did that were WRONG and that doesn't excuse the people who do it now. pnwmom May 2015 #14
Mostly by consent. LiberalAndProud May 2015 #16
The dissidents generally know what they're up against Warpy May 2015 #19
There is a difference between having no power to change a thing LiberalAndProud May 2015 #24
Fine, go do it in THEIR countries. Warpy May 2015 #71
They have those laws by "common consent" because challenging them True Blue Door May 2015 #23
+1 EOM Kurska May 2015 #25
The RW kooks who sponsored this, 'Art Exhibit" AgingAmerican May 2015 #27
Or maybe they just wanted to LiberalAndProud May 2015 #33
Yeah, probably. They're assholes, but they're within their rights. True Blue Door May 2015 #34
It's amazing AgingAmerican May 2015 #36
This message was self-deleted by its author True Blue Door May 2015 #37
Note the sarcasm tag AgingAmerican May 2015 #38
Ah, sorry. The syntax is very confusing. True Blue Door May 2015 #39
There is no rationalizing terrorism, especially religious terrorism AgingAmerican May 2015 #40
There's an interesting allegory about desert sand. True Blue Door May 2015 #42
My point being AgingAmerican May 2015 #66
We will. The world will be completely off of fossil fuels by mid-century. True Blue Door May 2015 #67
Except McVeigh killed people. Lots of them. geek tragedy May 2015 #48
K & R SunSeeker May 2015 #28
Very well said. sufrommich May 2015 #49
amen. PeaceNikki May 2015 #52
No one is excusing these gunmen treestar May 2015 #56
True, but fadedrose May 2015 #64
Would you be okay with the same thing "Not hurting Christians by insulting Jesus" Kurska May 2015 #65
I'm close to being an athiest fadedrose May 2015 #76
There's a massive difference between calling someone a racial slur True Blue Door May 2015 #69
where are the leftists cheering for murder? Doctor_J May 2015 #77
++ thread. There is no excuse for physical attacks on people criticizing an ideology. Yorktown May 2015 #78
thank you rollin74 May 2015 #80
Why can't I be against both again? booley May 2015 #82
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