General Discussion

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)

257. Really? If someone simply cannot pay, sending them to jail will solve that? How?

Tue May 8, 2012, 09:16 PM

May 2012

We live in a Democracy, or at least we pretend to. Jail is for criminals. Most fathers who are not paying child support are not paying because they CAN'T. They are poor. Jail doesn't cure poverty, it creates it. And poverty is not a crime, or at least it wasn't at one time in this country until the far right took over.

This is a Republican idea. That you can beat people into doing what you want. Progressives do not think that way, and countries that are run on progressive principles do not have half the problems authoritarian countries have. Because they SOLVE problems, rather than punish people.

Can't believe what I read here on DU sometimes. Since when is it a progressive policy to use jail as a solution to every problem?

No wonder we have the biggest jail population in the history of the world, ever. We are worse than third world dictatorships with our 'put them in jail and throw away the key' attitude. And if jail worked so well, we would have no one who is not paying child support, would we?

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I May be Going to Debtor's Prison [View all] The Doctor. May 2012 OP

K&R 99Forever May 2012 #1

Thanks. The Doctor. May 2012 #3

I certainly hope things get better for you... 99Forever May 2012 #25

what is going to happen when the jails are run over with people like this? Where are they going southernyankeebelle May 2012 #44

It's more complicated than that. randome May 2012 #46

What can you do if that is all that is out there. Lets face it if your in your 40s, 50s,60s you southernyankeebelle May 2012 #47

HA! Tell us, please...how many? ret5hd May 2012 #170

I bet like 98% would love living in squalor just to get back at their x wives, he chose to be poor Dragonfli May 2012 #191

Some percentage would, for a time treestar May 2012 #308

There is a meaness afoot in the land. annabanana May 2012 #2

"Why should I pay for this and that" sufrommich May 2012 #14

What's with making shit up? The Doctor. May 2012 #22

Read this: sufrommich May 2012 #30

I would love to hear her side of this. Pithlet May 2012 #33

Yep, me too. nt sufrommich May 2012 #34

It's common on DU to jump on a bandwagon hearing only one side treestar May 2012 #81

I'm always guilty of that -- thanks for the reminder. And for those who are cautioning against gateley May 2012 #171

That glaring omission???? See post #116. nt msanthrope May 2012 #117

Not surprised in the least. n/t Pithlet May 2012 #121

Nope---completely unsurprising. nt msanthrope May 2012 #122

As I was saying. lapislzi May 2012 #139

$600 a month is all he's paying? randome May 2012 #35

male median income 2010 = $32K. $600 = 1/4. HiPointDem May 2012 #73

1/4? That's not nearly enough. It should be 2/3 Zalatix May 2012 #90

Exactly, plus like it or not, it's not the other guy's responsibility. Lionessa May 2012 #59

Wow, you are really twisted. The Doctor. May 2012 #64

No, I'm not "twisted" nor do I sufrommich May 2012 #111

Yeah, he has to pay the court ordered amount treestar May 2012 #80

You seem terribly passive aggressive yourself. n/t iamthebandfanman May 2012 #135

This article raises more questions than it answers lapislzi May 2012 #138

What 'opportunities to act in his own defense' do you mean? The Doctor. May 2012 #148

He claims to have proof of his wife's perjury lapislzi May 2012 #283

So you didn't read it. The Doctor. May 2012 #292

I read it. Every tedious, self-pitying word. lapislzi May 2012 #296

Bullshit. If you had, you wouldn't have posted what you did. The Doctor. May 2012 #314

I'm sorry, but I cannot continue this discussion with you. lapislzi May 2012 #316

it's almost a "cool story bro" type of story, don't know what to believe on this one. dionysus May 2012 #280

Du rec. Nt xchrom May 2012 #4

Y'know this is nothing more really than "my ex-wife and life screwed me" rant. Lionessa May 2012 #5

Exactly. Pithlet May 2012 #6

you think your opinion on this might in any way be jaded? snooper2 May 2012 #9

Yes the facts and reality definitely jade me. I don't see that as an issue. Lionessa May 2012 #19

Yet you are so willing to invent extraneous details not in evidence, The Doctor. May 2012 #156

What are you talking about? Pithlet May 2012 #158

It is based on the information presented therein, his own presentation Lionessa May 2012 #172

You are of course correct. mysuzuki2 May 2012 #11

Should a man help pay for his children? This has sufrommich May 2012 #13

Sure. The Doctor. May 2012 #18

Right. But that wasn't up to him to decide that. Pithlet May 2012 #24

Yeesh you can't start a new business if you have child support payments? dkf May 2012 #36

Not if it means you can't meet your child support obligation. Pithlet May 2012 #37

At what level? n2doc May 2012 #26

I'm a wife and mother, and here's why I can't agree with you. kag May 2012 #225

Oh, barf. n/t Pithlet May 2012 #227

Thank you. kag May 2012 #307

I've heard that sophomoric crap before. The Doctor. May 2012 #15

I did not say it wasn't true, I said it wasn't the whole truth, and lacks any real owning of his Lionessa May 2012 #23

You said the story was unbelievable Major Nikon May 2012 #52

I guess when a person hears nearly this exact same rant from Lionessa May 2012 #57

I know plenty of divorced people Major Nikon May 2012 #61

You do know what jaded means right? snooper2 May 2012 #123

Yes, but as mentioned above, if it's facts and reality of Lionessa May 2012 #142

"I realize you men all think women are the drama queens" snooper2 May 2012 #147

He reminds me of a man I know with bipolar disease, who flits from one job to another pnwmom May 2012 #41

I was thinking the same thing dana_b May 2012 #219

Wow -- On the Road May 2012 #98

One line summary - In the US you may be sent to jail if you can't pay your child support. n/t PoliticAverse May 2012 #7

Yep... The Doctor. May 2012 #17

if you can't, you go back to court. Like not paying your taxes, it doesn't just "go away". crazyjoe May 2012 #39

True. HappyMe May 2012 #164

When the revolution happens it'll start in places like this. Initech May 2012 #8

This message was self-deleted by its author gratuitous May 2012 #10

He's not going to "debtor's prison",he's going sufrommich May 2012 #12

Right, he couldn't pay a debt obligation, so he's going to jail. The Doctor. May 2012 #16

Only by those who want to minimize what the obligation is for. Pithlet May 2012 #20

No it is contempt of court treestar May 2012 #75

Right, not having enough money = 'contempt of court'. The Doctor. May 2012 #100

The law is that earning capacity is considered treestar May 2012 #107

Right, because he's 'supposed' to make more, he should be making more. The Doctor. May 2012 #112

It depends on the case treestar May 2012 #253

Collective punishment is wrong. And laws should not be written based on what 'some people did' sabrina 1 May 2012 #131

What is better for children is not being raised in struggling single parent households Pithlet May 2012 #134

And having a parent thrown in jail benefits children, in what way? For most children it is sabrina 1 May 2012 #244

It benefits them because the system needs some level of teeth. Pithlet May 2012 #247

Really? If someone simply cannot pay, sending them to jail will solve that? How? sabrina 1 May 2012 #257

I get that jail isn't the solution for everything. I'm not a law and order type. Pithlet May 2012 #260

"Most fathers who are not paying child support are not paying because they CAN'T" WinniSkipper May 2012 #262

Feel free, not sure why it should be a problem. I have been to fathers groups with friends who sabrina 1 May 2012 #268

Until you can put some stats behind your statement WinniSkipper May 2012 #277

I asked for stats and didn't get them yet. sabrina 1 May 2012 #285

Well you could try to find some WinniSkipper May 2012 #289

No, I did not initiate this discussion. The obligation for proof is on those who made the initial sabrina 1 May 2012 #294

You are actually the one with the right wing meme WinniSkipper May 2012 #299

Now you've really gone way off the tracks regarding this discussion. What a gigantic, humongous sabrina 1 May 2012 #300

Easy WinniSkipper May 2012 #303

Since when do people on the left give a crap about what the Right, who are wrong about sabrina 1 May 2012 #306

Maybe if we try this one by one WinniSkipper May 2012 #311

First of all there should not be a 'custodial' or 'non-custodial' parent. sabrina 1 May 2012 #318

And we're done. nt WinniSkipper May 2012 #321

Lol, sorry to burst your bubble that we are not stuck with rightwing sabrina 1 May 2012 #323

We're done because WinniSkipper May 2012 #325

He never tried to petition the court to adjust his payment to a level he could afford. Kaleva May 2012 #266

Yes, he did. You obviously did not read the comment section. He was denied. sabrina 1 May 2012 #267

I agree in some ways. laundry_queen May 2012 #271

First, thank you for your post. I wish you and your children all the best. I am sure it is not easy sabrina 1 May 2012 #273

"Can't pay" is his excuse treestar May 2012 #256

Courts often decide people can pay when in fact they cannot. Ever attend a father's rights group? sabrina 1 May 2012 #259

Most states have to have formulas based on federal guidelines treestar May 2012 #293

It is not collective punishment to have a law equally applied to all treestar May 2012 #254

True enough, but semantics, much like fabreeze seeks to take away the bad odor /nt Dragonfli May 2012 #194

This is nothing but a long drawn Texasgal May 2012 #21

Recommendation: fathersandfriends.org web site and facebook page grasswire May 2012 #27

OP needs to edit this to include that it is due to failure to pay child support... Earth_First May 2012 #28

Really the biggest mistake he made was in not hiring the best lawyer he could, n2doc May 2012 #29

He was trying not to traumatize his kids. The family court version of Zalatix May 2012 #92

So he in effect surrendered. n2doc May 2012 #106

It's hardly pyrrhic. She won the jackpot. Literally. Zalatix May 2012 #145

She'll get no money n2doc May 2012 #153

This is true, but she'll get plenty of money from her new husband Zalatix May 2012 #155

I don't think they're engaged. Pithlet May 2012 #163

She left because she was supporting him. Kaleva May 2012 #327

You mean hire an attorney he apparently couldn't afford. The Doctor. May 2012 #99

Wow some of the replies are pretty tough. dkf May 2012 #31

Yep, Non-Custodial Parents are one of the untermenschen of modern society. No one cares about them stevenleser May 2012 #195

Thank you, I agree with you completely. sabrina 1 May 2012 #286

The child support laws have been developed over time through good and bad treestar May 2012 #309

I can't argue with providing for your kids, but it seems to me that society could have benefited dkf May 2012 #329

Poorly-written "poor me" screed. He's facing jail for missing child support payments, not cc debt REP May 2012 #32

You know, I notice you have no pity for anyone. Zalatix May 2012 #93

Really? You've read all 14K+ of my posts? REP May 2012 #96

You are right, absolutes are seldom true. I can say though, that I have yet to see a post of yours Dragonfli May 2012 #196

I thought I was responding to someone else - sorry - edited REP May 2012 #221

Why thank you for noticing me these past 8 years! /nt Dragonfli May 2012 #222

I'm sorry; thought I was responding to someone else. I don't recognize you at all. REP May 2012 #223

No need to edit, one thing I am not is easily offended :-) /nt Dragonfli May 2012 #229

Right, because you know all the answers, The Doctor. May 2012 #103

I have obviously made better choices; I am not going to prison. REP May 2012 #151

I'm not the one making assumptions. The Doctor. May 2012 #161

That's odd - only you suggested others make the same decisions I do; I didn't REP May 2012 #220

"I slog through your Word Salads of Fury" pintobean May 2012 #261

foresight Mason Dixon May 2012 #38

He's wrong about the family courts being biased against fathers. pnwmom May 2012 #40

I agree with that. randome May 2012 #45

Maybe where you are .. sendero May 2012 #63

Well, I mean, you can just google and find some right off the bat... Pithlet May 2012 #65

Also, here's what a family lawyer in Texas says about father's chances in Texas: Pithlet May 2012 #67

Who told you that? A man who had been denied custody? A judge? pnwmom May 2012 #84

I think you were told wrong Horse with no Name May 2012 #87

Let me make a point here. After the close to TWENTY Motion Hearings Horse with no Name May 2012 #89

Link please. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #71

And support is gender neutral, too. treestar May 2012 #79

They don't request support ecause if they demand mom's support for the kids, she'll demand custody. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #88

Well the laws are gender neutral treestar May 2012 #108

My husband said that when he was suing for custody Mariana May 2012 #128

He says right in the OP that sufrommich May 2012 #160

We have an acquaintance here in NY HappyMe May 2012 #169

He's not wrong as the only person responding to you with a link pointed out. stevenleser May 2012 #197

It's called "The Tender Years Doctrine". The Doctor. May 2012 #202

From that very link: Pithlet May 2012 #243

Thank you, that's what I thought. I have asked for some links to prove what has been said here, sabrina 1 May 2012 #265

Yes, you are not going to get any links because it is simply not true. stevenleser May 2012 #281

He knows he's wrong, he's got custody of one of his sufrommich May 2012 #200

Omniscience must be nice. The Doctor. May 2012 #203

I know as much of the story as you do, but if you're going sufrommich May 2012 #204

Making shit up again.... wow. The Doctor. May 2012 #291

"But I know your history well" sufrommich May 2012 #297

Do you have any data for that? That is not what I have found. . sabrina 1 May 2012 #264

My ex is dumb as a hammer and crazy as a sack of bats. LASlibinSC May 2012 #42

I'm really sorry that these things happened to the author of the post. JDPriestly May 2012 #43

That was my impression as well - TBF May 2012 #50

We need to have a national discussion about the problem of divorce. JDPriestly May 2012 #201

Short story: He's going to jail for failure to pay child support. Selatius May 2012 #48

how do you pay child support from jail? grasswire May 2012 #49

I'm assuming he's serving jail time in lieu of failure to pay past child support. Selatius May 2012 #51

the jail time does not pay off the obligation grasswire May 2012 #70

It's very hard to get someone in jail for it treestar May 2012 #76

I know without reading that he's going to jail for back child support. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #53

Exactly. bluestate10 May 2012 #56

No they don't. Meet Charles Bruce. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #66

Debtor's prison is for debts accrued on purchases and loans. Starry Messenger May 2012 #54

Maybe they think if the "debt" is discharged. Pithlet May 2012 #58

Imprisoning poor people after assigning them debts they could never pay is wrong Taitertots May 2012 #55

$7800 a year is outrageous?? Do you have a clue what it costs Lionessa May 2012 #60

So what, a person making $10,000 can't pay $7800 Taitertots May 2012 #62

But he can live on the remaining $2,200! Zalatix May 2012 #94

It doesn't matter what it costs. The only thing that matters is what he can pay. n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #68

$7800 = 1/4 of male median income. which suggests that there's a lot of men who are working HiPointDem May 2012 #74

Child support is a profit center for the courts. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #69

and for the associated professions... grasswire May 2012 #72

It's for support of children treestar May 2012 #78

You didn't read the link. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #86

No, they are decided by formula. treestar May 2012 #109

It is a figure based on his income and hers treestar May 2012 #77

sigh grasswire May 2012 #82

Well if those are the rules, they are applied to everyone treestar May 2012 #83

that may be so... grasswire May 2012 #85

The economy would be considered treestar May 2012 #110

B/C those guidelines cause poor people to pay an unreasonable amount Taitertots May 2012 #302

Give it away? treestar May 2012 #304

Of course there are no groups trying to change the formula... Taitertots May 2012 #319

$7800 tru May 2012 #234

Fail to take care of your kids, go to jail quakerboy May 2012 #91

And then how do the kids get support if he's in jail? Or dead? Zalatix May 2012 #95

It amazes me how so many can form such strong opinions over something they didn't bother to read. The Doctor. May 2012 #101

Try again. quakerboy May 2012 #102

You just proved that you didn't read it. The Doctor. May 2012 #104

For all we know, she may not have commited perjury. Kaleva May 2012 #105

Your point? The Doctor. May 2012 #113

Check out post 116..there's a reason for his problems....nt msanthrope May 2012 #118

That is NOT a reason for his problems. Millions of people get DWIs. Btw, I see this was brought sabrina 1 May 2012 #270

His explanation is bunk quakerboy May 2012 #252

That's a heartbreaking situation. pacalo May 2012 #97

That ex-wife sounds like a horrible nightmare JNelson6563 May 2012 #114

You know what sickens me? Women who form opinions of other women msanthrope May 2012 #115

You're right, I should've prefaced with: JNelson6563 May 2012 #130

There you go. Horse with no Name May 2012 #149

I thought he sounded like a nightmare. Pithlet May 2012 #132

I suspect this item on the POLICE BLOTTER might explain why the wife left.... msanthrope May 2012 #116

Might explain his very erratic work history. Kaleva May 2012 #119

Well, I suspect it isn't just one.... msanthrope May 2012 #120

I posted the question at Kos with a link to the police blotter. Kaleva May 2012 #124

I expect crickets. nt msanthrope May 2012 #125

Yes. I don't expect a reply. Kaleva May 2012 #127

and knowing too many people with drinking problems - bhikkhu May 2012 #129

Wow, posting his home address. The Doctor. May 2012 #159

Writer displays many traits typical of narcissistic personality disorder. lapislzi May 2012 #324

Well, that makes it alright to lock him up and throw away the key. He was pulled over for a DWI. sabrina 1 May 2012 #133

I think the point is Pithlet May 2012 #136

such scenarios DO happen, trite as they may sound grasswire May 2012 #140

That may be. Pithlet May 2012 #141

How many DWIs does she have? Do we know? And suppose she does, what has that got to do sabrina 1 May 2012 #241

No. We don't know. But we do know how many he has. At least one. Pithlet May 2012 #245

It might have much to do with his being unable to pay the child support... Kaleva May 2012 #144

And it might not. But don't let doubt get in the way of a nice character assasination. The Doctor. May 2012 #162

Well, the writer had no problem assassinating the character of his former wife. lapislzi May 2012 #298

And it might not. And if he was a wealthy Corporate CEO, the issue of DWIs would not even be raised. sabrina 1 May 2012 #238

In this case it might. Kaleva May 2012 #242

That is very true. lapislzi May 2012 #326

Um, what are you talking about? msanthrope May 2012 #192

Don't be sorry for something you are merely speculating on. I pointed out sabrina 1 May 2012 #240

You really think having an addiction has nothing to do with the ability to pay child msanthrope May 2012 #251

Who said he is an addict? But if he is, of cours it would affect his ability to pay support. Just sabrina 1 May 2012 #255

I think his letter very clearly spells out his problems. Denial is a powerful thing. nt msanthrope May 2012 #258

This is what he said at Kos about the arrest: Kaleva May 2012 #263

So he admitted to drinking, but refused the breathalyzer that msanthrope May 2012 #274

Yes. He never did say why he refused the Breathalyzer. Kaleva May 2012 #276

Why did you bring this information over to DK? First, how is it relevant sabrina 1 May 2012 #282

I didn't google him Kaleva May 2012 #287

Well, anyone in that thread at DK could have googled him, possibly they did. It doesn't sabrina 1 May 2012 #290

I beg to differ Kaleva May 2012 #295

Well, I will tell you why most criminal defendants refuse a breathalyzer...it's because they are msanthrope May 2012 #301

Well , he says there was no finding that he refused a breathalyzer test. Kaleva May 2012 #305

No, it doesn't. It spells out a very common story in this country of someone who has been trying sabrina 1 May 2012 #269

Well, they say the first step is admitting that everyone else has a problem. msanthrope May 2012 #275

Lol, I know that things like 'chronology' aren't important when trying to lambaste someone... The Doctor. May 2012 #157

You really think a drinking problem just popped up after his wife left? nt msanthrope May 2012 #189

They're not building those private prisons for nutt'n. lonestarnot May 2012 #126

no he's not stupidicus May 2012 #137

I don't think he helped his case by giving his name and publicly accusing his ex of perjury. Kaleva May 2012 #143

I think he's a whining dumbass stupidicus May 2012 #233

+1 Kaleva May 2012 #278

The responses to this thread... Unca Jim May 2012 #146

... are indicative of the nation's attitude toward the poor and unfortunate. The Doctor. May 2012 #150

Do you know who the largest percentage of poor people are in this country? Pithlet May 2012 #152

Do you consider 'non-custodial parents' part of those single parent families? stevenleser May 2012 #173

Whether or not I consider them part of the family is irrelevant. Pithlet May 2012 #175

It's not irrelevant. You dont see the non-custodial parent as a parent and you are right. stevenleser May 2012 #177

I absolutely do see the non custodial parent as a parent. Because they are. Pithlet May 2012 #178

Then you misunderstood what I was asking (maybe I didnt phrase it well), but my point remains. stevenleser May 2012 #179

Yes. I was tying to explain that families run by a single parent are the poorest. Pithlet May 2012 #180

You WERE clear, hence my point. You dont think of the non custodial parent as a parent. stevenleser May 2012 #182

"You dont think of the non custodial parent as a parent." Pithlet May 2012 #183

You excluded them, I am just pointing out what is apparent from your own phraseology stevenleser May 2012 #184

Why would I do that? Pithlet May 2012 #185

I'm not sure what question you are answering since I asked about a dozen or more, but... stevenleser May 2012 #186

Right. Equal and shared custody doesn't exist. Pithlet May 2012 #187

Alas, now I have to tell you that you are wrong. stevenleser May 2012 #190

Uh, this proves that shared custody doesn't exist how? n/t Pithlet May 2012 #207

TO clarify even further Pithlet May 2012 #181

"Any question about how different some of these responses would be if this were a woman... 99Forever May 2012 #166

Totally ignoring how often this agenda is anti woman, of course. Pithlet May 2012 #167

99% of the time??????????? 99Forever May 2012 #237

I've been on DU since 2001 Pithlet May 2012 #239

Frankly... 99Forever May 2012 #249

Then you can save your disingenuous claims of support for women, ok? Pithlet May 2012 #250

The contingency of people on DU with an agenda against men balances it out.. RedRocco May 2012 #279

Um, no. lapislzi May 2012 #310

Your pseudo-neutrality is pretty apparent. The Doctor. May 2012 #313

His glaring holes Kaleva May 2012 #315

He constructed a very visually appealing cross to martyr himself on... LanternWaste May 2012 #154

Wow, he was right. I'm starting to like this guy. The Doctor. May 2012 #165

I don't suffer deadbeat dads. LanternWaste May 2012 #188

Right, he tried, he failed, he should be punished for failing to make enough money. The Doctor. May 2012 #193

Yep, we care about the 99%... unless they are a non-custodial parent. NCP's can go to hell. stevenleser May 2012 #198

Money is neither speech, nor support, nor being a parent. Also... stevenleser May 2012 #168

Having suffered at the hands of a sociopath Horse with no Name May 2012 #206

This is an easy question to answer. The bad parents you describe should have their parental rights stevenleser May 2012 #208

There is only one bad parent here...and on paper, it sounds easy Horse with no Name May 2012 #214

Yes. laundry_queen May 2012 #312

It would cost more to keep him in prison than to give him a job on a road crew or something. limpyhobbler May 2012 #174

You are so right, but that's not the point and I think you see it. stevenleser May 2012 #176

Divorce is ugly, especially when kids are involved DaveJ May 2012 #199

You would be surprised how many people become less mentally stable when you take their kids away stevenleser May 2012 #205

I do not agree at all with your "half-time" logic DaveJ May 2012 #209

Sure it does. Its only in the situation of a divorce when it doesnt. Consider stevenleser May 2012 #210

You are mistaken. Pithlet May 2012 #213

Nope, if they are then it is temporary during foster care. Once adopted, the payments stop. stevenleser May 2012 #224

Well, that's not what you said, is it? Pithlet May 2012 #230

That distinction isnt relevant to the divorce/custody situation, is it? nt stevenleser May 2012 #231

Not getting you n/t Pithlet May 2012 #232

It would take a LOT for me to be convinced... DaveJ May 2012 #217

Nope, I am saying that parents who would not have their children taken away if they were alone stevenleser May 2012 #228

Fine DaveJ May 2012 #248

Its important to remember that "Its for the children" has been used to justify some of the worst stevenleser May 2012 #272

I get where you are coming from and I get that with your emotion Horse with no Name May 2012 #211

The actual studies on the subject say the exact opposite. Everyone is happier in shared situations stevenleser May 2012 #212

I don't need studies to tell me anything. Horse with no Name May 2012 #215

OK, if we're discounting studies, we're done. nt stevenleser May 2012 #216

Yes I am because I KNOW that there are just as many studies Horse with no Name May 2012 #218

he's incoherent tru May 2012 #226

Lucky for his wife!!!!!???? kag May 2012 #235

We don't know if he kept all of his promises to her. Kaleva May 2012 #236

If you read his journals at DU2 written about 3 years ago... Kaleva May 2012 #330

The US is being reconstructed as 1 vast open air debtor's prison kenny blankenship May 2012 #246

While that may be true, and I agree with you, lapislzi May 2012 #284

Unrec brooklynite May 2012 #288

I read through the comments. The Doctor. May 2012 #317

However, you were tooting his horn not long after he posted his story at DK Kaleva May 2012 #320

I'm raising two children who don't get support from the father. Codeine May 2012 #322

Yup, I with you. RebelOne May 2012 #328