General Discussion

TM99

(8,352 posts)

272. Again, factually incorrect.

Mon May 4, 2015, 07:06 PM

May 2015

The Clintons have baggage from decades of scandals and whispers of scandal. That is not something you can just put your fingers in your ears, go la la la la, and deny.

No Hilary had a rather unremarkable tenure at State. Those facts are not in dispute.

Yes, unfortunately he did. Gitmo remains open. NSA spying was expanded and never halted once made public. Executive kill lists are longer. More whistle-blowers have been prosecuted under Obama than any other administration. That is but a few examples.

No, PNAC was a bi-partisan group of advisors, diplomats, politicians, and retired military. Their stated goals have most certainly continued under Clinton at State and Obama as President.

Your last statement is just propaganda and hardly worth responding to.

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I have fucking had it with: "Sanders, which could potentially force Hillary Clinton further left..." [View all] NYC_SKP May 2015 OP

More infighting ...it will be a wonder if the Democratic party can come together NoJusticeNoPeace May 2015 #1

IRONY ALERT KittyWampus May 2015 #4

Not infighting, a false narrative that needs to just stop. "Push her to the left." NYC_SKP May 2015 #6

Rush Limbaugh can be pushed "further to the left". You outrage is sounding contrived. Buzz Clik May 2015 #39

Rush Limbaugh got fired.... for being too Reich. nt 1handclapn May 2015 #158

The problem with pushing her to the left passiveporcupine May 2015 #115

Exactly, good points. NYC_SKP May 2015 #118

I love Bernie and will support him but if Hillary wins the primary I will support OregonBlue May 2015 #173

+1000 stage left May 2015 #230

Anything she may say that is vaguely progressive hifiguy May 2015 #147

This effect has been visible over the last 2 weeks. bvar22 May 2015 #162

+5 appalachiablue May 2015 #174

Exactly sendero May 2015 #176

Well said. We don't need her to pretending to be progressive. nm rhett o rick May 2015 #177

Agreed zentrum May 2015 #178

Only the rhetoric can be massaged. Enthusiast May 2015 #142

That is a fact. The implication in the OWS statement is that he can't win. NYC_SKP May 2015 #161

Of course, that will be the message blasted by media and HIllary's bunch arikara May 2015 #171

It is their major tactic. We must prove them wrong. Enthusiast May 2015 #197

Yes but there are members here that are hell bent on arguing that INdemo May 2015 #241

The truth is, millions of Americans have realized that they are being abused. Enthusiast May 2015 #195

That rubbed me the wrong way too NYC_SKP. sabrina 1 May 2015 #211

Sarah Gray at ATTN wrote the article, not OWS... NYC_SKP May 2015 #224

That's what I thought. In my OP I posted the statement from OWS Organizers, the original organizers sabrina 1 May 2015 #258

Thank you for the background, good to know. NYC_SKP May 2015 #262

Sanders is polling dead even with "no preference" and "margin of error" Buzz Clik May 2015 #38

Sanders is polling almost the same as Obama was at this point in 2007. cui bono May 2015 #53

That's just not true. Agschmid May 2015 #56

That's what Thom Hartmann said on his radio show. n/t cui bono May 2015 #59

People make shit up, to make the point they want to. Agschmid May 2015 #60

Thom doesn't. cui bono May 2015 #71

Well, if he said Obama was polling the same as Sanders Dr Hobbitstein May 2015 #82

As I mentioned to someone else who is being reasonable in this thread, cui bono May 2015 #94

I don't listen to Thom Hartmann. Dr Hobbitstein May 2015 #99

So you don't listen to him but give him zero credibilty. cui bono May 2015 #105

If he worked for The Blaze, would you listen to him? Dr Hobbitstein May 2015 #110

He doesn't work for RT. They air his show. And I judge people base on their actions and stances, cui bono May 2015 #117

Boom! yuiyoshida May 2015 #186

Is your book available on Amazon? INdemo May 2015 #229

My book? cui bono May 2015 #234

Dont know what happen but I must have clicked on obviously the wrong post INdemo May 2015 #240

I stole it from someone else. cui bono May 2015 #249

Apparently he did. JaneyVee May 2015 #84

No, he didn't. But I might have misrepeated something. Check my other posts. cui bono May 2015 #91

Yes, they do. Bernie just entered the race. We'll see where the polling is a month from now. sabrina 1 May 2015 #213

The link was a few posts up. Agschmid May 2015 #220

Hey he might surge to.... workinclasszero May 2015 #58

Obama was polling at 30% in May of 2007. sufrommich May 2015 #64

Maybe it was earlier in the year then, because he had Edwards higher than Obama I think. cui bono May 2015 #73

Sanders absolutely has a chance, but he isn't polling where Obama was. Agschmid May 2015 #77

I'm not trying to take away from Sanders,of course he's got a sufrommich May 2015 #89

Excellent point. When minorities got over their fears that white people would not vote for him Number23 May 2015 #259

No. Buzz Clik May 2015 #156

Everr hear of a little thing in politics called name-recognition. HERVEPA May 2015 #129

First time I've heard of it. Ever. Buzz Clik May 2015 #157

Without the nay sayers like you progress would be better. Enthusiast May 2015 #198

I'm not standing in your way. Buzz Clik May 2015 #203

The agenda of most American citizens you mean. Enthusiast May 2015 #204

BAWHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! davidpdx May 2015 #208

One person's infighting = another person's primary process SusanCalvin May 2015 #98

9th most liberal senator of her time. JaneyVee May 2015 #2

Yes and Elizabeth Warren was what, 8th? Ignore all the facts, though. The Sanders okaawhatever May 2015 #8

Obama was actually 8th. JaneyVee May 2015 #57

I would like to see the metrics for that determination. It's not apparent that she's much other leveymg May 2015 #21

9th most liberal senator of her time. workinclasszero May 2015 #54

I got something out of your post, but it had nothing to do with Hillary. cui bono May 2015 #88

whatever workinclasszero May 2015 #104

What does that have to do with anything I said? n/t cui bono May 2015 #106

Please remember that we are just a tiny minority when your preferred LondonReign2 May 2015 #179

"Think the purists will get that?" TBF May 2015 #140

Hillary has been attacked on this board since before workinclasszero May 2015 #141

Go back through my posts - TBF May 2015 #146

Good for Bernie workinclasszero May 2015 #148

I think what I wrote in my OP is still true - TBF May 2015 #160

Why don't you read her biography before you pretend to know how she grew up. juajen May 2015 #210

Oh please - this is getting ridiculous. TBF May 2015 #216

All that shows is how far right the entire elected politicians of both parties have moved. cui bono May 2015 #75

!!!!!!!!!!!! BrotherIvan May 2015 #92

This metric is based on voting records. Spectrums don't change. JaneyVee May 2015 #97

Yeah, voting records of hers against the other elected officials. So what I said stands. cui bono May 2015 #103

Really? Spectrums don't change? candelista May 2015 #164

And even if you don't think the spectrum itself changes, where one lands on it certainly does. cui bono May 2015 #200

Another outburst from a Sanders supporter? LOL. I support him to move Hillary left KittyWampus May 2015 #3

Bernie can win. I support him to WIN. You can't drag anyone to the Left, so that's just sabrina 1 May 2015 #36

+10000000000 woo me with science May 2015 #43

He almost certainly cannot win the primary. He has not participated in Democratic party politics. KittyWampus May 2015 #131

^^^ lordsummerisle May 2015 #187

Draw me a map Caretha May 2015 #191

i have always seens sanders run as individual and an opportunity. not an extension of clinton. seabeyond May 2015 #5

Call out threads like this with slams against Hillary do nothing but drive us further apart NoJusticeNoPeace May 2015 #7

With this OP I'm calling out the media and OWS, not Clinton. NYC_SKP May 2015 #12

you betcha. when i state, as a feminist, social is my priority, as i support sanders.... seabeyond May 2015 #13

Then why on earth would you say you support him? I support him because I DO see what you sabrina 1 May 2015 #44

there is not a chance in hell i would try to clear the air with you. you have zero seabeyond May 2015 #50

I am more than willing to 'clear the air' with anyone because I am confident enough sabrina 1 May 2015 #63

first sentence to me "Then why on earth would you say you support him? " seabeyond May 2015 #68

It is what I got from your post. That you have some serious issues with the candidate sabrina 1 May 2015 #76

of course it doesnt make sense, because you made my post what you wanted to make it. seabeyond May 2015 #78

Then feel free to correct me. sabrina 1 May 2015 #100

yes you make it up to me. but you change what i say to your argument. so it really does not matter seabeyond May 2015 #119

Then I have to assume that my interpretation is correct. sabrina 1 May 2015 #149

of course. assume your INTERPRETATION is correct even though the words i posted and me telling seabeyond May 2015 #150

With all due respect, your post is very unclear, I honestly do not understand what you are saying Dragonfli May 2015 #183

In an effort to derail BrotherIvan May 2015 #61

how about the tactic of you telling me we do not have a place in the campaign? brilliant strategy. seabeyond May 2015 #65

What on earth are you talking about BrotherIvan May 2015 #69

you replied to sabrina who replied to me. you stated it was about derailing dismissing what i said. seabeyond May 2015 #70

You are all over this thread trying to derail it BrotherIvan May 2015 #102

all over? no hyperbole or dishonest there. i made one comment. some people replied and we had a seabeyond May 2015 #122

You were presented with an answer to your concerns BrotherIvan May 2015 #128

it was the economic populists answer. and it was an incorrect answer full of irony, seabeyond May 2015 #130

Wow BrotherIvan May 2015 #135

i just do not toe your line, do i? mind boggling. seabeyond May 2015 #137

LOL, +1 to the billionth. ucrdem May 2015 #212

Well, it isn't working! sabrina 1 May 2015 #66

Saying that Sanders thinks social issues need to take a back seat to economic ones BrotherIvan May 2015 #107

SAYING... running the campaign as an economic populist campaign, and all kinds of dismissal when i seabeyond May 2015 #125

It is not Sanders that is is dismissing your concerns as shown abundantly to you in this thread BrotherIvan May 2015 #132

yes. you are dismissing my concerns. we agree on that. as i stated initially and thru out. no mo seabeyond May 2015 #136

Seabeyond Caretha May 2015 #192

Keeps repeating "white" and "men" and "populist" Bonobo May 2015 #184

Actually all I hear is BrotherIvan May 2015 #185

Are you saying that because Bernie is a white male that he is going to be fighting only for white cui bono May 2015 #114

if his campaign is, economic populist, then yes. he is advocating for white and male. nt seabeyond May 2015 #126

Is that how he defines his campaign? cui bono May 2015 #139

that is how his campaign is being defined. two days in, i do not know how he is defining. seabeyond May 2015 #145

You don't think his record is proof enough? He's been in the public eye a long time now. cui bono May 2015 #201

You didn't respond to my other post so here are a couple more thoughts I missed... cui bono May 2015 #250

Do you think ANYONE is buying this crap? BrotherIvan May 2015 #143

two statements you are addressing. please be specific what is false, or as you say... crap? seabeyond May 2015 #144

I'm curious, are you really a Bernie supporter? cui bono May 2015 #96

he was a supporter well before many of the people in this very thread jumped on board. as was i. seabeyond May 2015 #127

Okay, thanks. n/t cui bono May 2015 #138

Only odd if calling for party unity is odd or supporting Bernie is odd or for supporting Hillary IF NoJusticeNoPeace May 2015 #182

That's good. I just had to ask to satisfy my curiosity. Thanks for your answer. cui bono May 2015 #199

He needs money, I have donated a little and signed up to volunteer, but we need to get his name NoJusticeNoPeace May 2015 #227

I work with someone who overheard me exclaim delight when I saw Bernie was running. cui bono May 2015 #233

My problem in this case is entirely with the media and with OWS for parroting the MSM meme. NYC_SKP May 2015 #9

i do not watch msm. and though i think it is really important to be informed, to the extent of seabeyond May 2015 #17

LOL, was just talking to a friend of mine, who is a delegate this year.... NYC_SKP May 2015 #27

people are influenced though. can use it to advantage, and can defuse also. with kids... our youth seabeyond May 2015 #29

Love the hair! NYC_SKP May 2015 #33

exactly. einstein. unbeknown to many, that is the youth we address. it will "play" seabeyond May 2015 #37

I'm supporting him HappyMe May 2015 #10

"I support him to win, to take the primary and go on to win the general." NYC_SKP May 2015 #16

Yup. HappyMe May 2015 #24

Thanks! I contributed a little bit on Thursday but last year had tons of medical costs. NYC_SKP May 2015 #28

Mine won't be huge contributions by any means. HappyMe May 2015 #31

Same here. historylovr May 2015 #19

Good! HappyMe May 2015 #25

This^^^ BrotherIvan May 2015 #34

There is no need to think of Bernie HappyMe May 2015 #47

I agree BrotherIvan May 2015 #67

Anything to the Left of Hillary as we've known her is pure campaign positioning. leveymg May 2015 #11

I'd be interested to see how many bills sponsored, actually passed. Agschmid May 2015 #23

Pretty much. Given the rightward movement of overton's wndow, it's not surprising Populist_Prole May 2015 #111

Someone gives a point of view, you disagree with that view, and now you still_one May 2015 #14

K&R! marym625 May 2015 #15

and I am sick and tired of the in-fighting between... chillfactor May 2015 #18

Read the OP. This is a commentary about the media meme. NYC_SKP May 2015 #40

I do not like Hillary's position on key policies, and I don't want her to be President. Maedhros May 2015 #133

The problem is that people will sadoldgirl May 2015 #20

+1 Go Vols May 2015 #26

Good point, I think you're right. NYC_SKP May 2015 #30

I think Bernie will be able to point that out, in debates. Which is why it is so good to sabrina 1 May 2015 #52

It's a corporate talking point, and a ridiculous one at that. woo me with science May 2015 #22

The Tea Party has moved the Republican Party to the right... TerrapinFlyer May 2015 #32

And Clintons have also moved the party to the right. Sanders will move it to the left. NYC_SKP May 2015 #35

If the Party moves to the Left, so will all the candidates TerrapinFlyer May 2015 #46

No, I don't think she will blow against the wind. SusanCalvin May 2015 #109

Show us your crystal ball TerrapinFlyer May 2015 #152

I have no crystal ball. SusanCalvin May 2015 #168

Why would anybody vote for somebody who has to be "forced left" over Tierra_y_Libertad May 2015 #41

Is this a serious qestion? How about a simple answer. TerrapinFlyer May 2015 #51

I'll take my chances with the one that doesn't have to be forced left. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2015 #74

"Chances"... What if your candidate doesn't win the Primary? TerrapinFlyer May 2015 #81

I always vote. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2015 #85

Let me tell you - I'm 840high May 2015 #181

FDR was "forced left." NYC Liberal May 2015 #153

And...? Tierra_y_Libertad May 2015 #155

Hillary Clinton already is left. NYC Liberal May 2015 #165

The candidate "forced left" would not REMAIN LEFT post election. NorthCarolina May 2015 #217

I don't think it's infighting...we now have TWO candidates who must be held and judged by libdem4life May 2015 #42

I'm with you 100%. 99Forever May 2015 #45

Just because you change a candidates rhetoric WDIM May 2015 #48

"In Just 24 Hours Bernie Sanders Outraises Rand Paul, Marco Rubio AND Ted Cruz" BeanMusical May 2015 #49

You're saying Hillary can't be moved to the left. AtheistCrusader May 2015 #55

No core principles. Unlike Sanders, whose representation of the 99 percent is consistent woo me with science May 2015 #108

I do not presume to speak for 'americans'. AtheistCrusader May 2015 #121

I can't support anyone who changes their rhetoric in response to political wind shifts hootinholler May 2015 #62

...! KoKo May 2015 #80

Yes, that was Borrowitz. Hilarious! NYC_SKP May 2015 #83

Everything you've written here is wrong oberliner May 2015 #72

I have a reputation of wrongness to maintain here. NYC_SKP May 2015 #90

Hillary is not a centrist, she is liberal Dem: Its only Sanders people claim centrist lewebley3 May 2015 #79

I agree with all your statement except Bernie is not Nader TerrapinFlyer May 2015 #87

No, not at all. No way is Hillary liberal. Not at all. cui bono May 2015 #202

Sanders cozies up to Wall Street everyday! Dem's party is whole nothing! lewebley3 May 2015 #235

Links? cui bono May 2015 #236

Google picture of the Current Senate and House: You will Bernie with Rows of Rich people! lewebley3 May 2015 #238

You didn't answer my question. Your post means nothing. cui bono May 2015 #239

Sanders sits in the Senate surrounded by former and future Wall Street people lewebley3 May 2015 #269

Clinton is progressive in one arena alone TM99 May 2015 #260

Hillary's followers are not anti rich people: Sanders are! lewebley3 May 2015 #265

So many inaccuracies in this reply it isn't even funny. TM99 May 2015 #270

Yes, Bernie supporters do bash Hillary for being successful! Read Sanders post!! lewebley3 May 2015 #271

Again, factually incorrect. TM99 May 2015 #272

The So called Clinton's scandals were manufactured by the GOP: lewebley3 May 2015 #273

Again more inaccuracies. TM99 May 2015 #275

Supporting Bernie, helps the GOP: I am sure Bernie's will be getting a check from the Koch's soon! lewebley3 May 2015 #279

This is where our conversation ends. TM99 May 2015 #280

Review 2008 History: GOP sending people out to vote in the Dem primes lewebley3 May 2015 #281

Who cares anyway tomsaiditagain May 2015 #86

Well, Liz & Bernie have already moved her rhetoric further left. Jackpine Radical May 2015 #93

Yup, the rhetoric moves around quite a bit. NYC_SKP May 2015 #101

Well said. EEO May 2015 #95

it really doesn't bother me. barbtries May 2015 #112

I don't know anyone who supports bernie gwheezie May 2015 #113

Well, it's only just begun. You're going to hear it a lot. I guess you can deal with it. PeaceNikki May 2015 #116

That's not how I've heard it gollygee May 2015 #120

Recommended. H2O Man May 2015 #123

the other thing... rbnyc May 2015 #124

K&R Pooka Fey May 2015 #134

I'm with you madokie May 2015 #151

Post removed Post removed May 2015 #154

Did you say "gutter-sniping asshole"? Well, you might want to read the damned OP again. NYC_SKP May 2015 #163

wow rbnyc May 2015 #166

What a vile, filthy, venomous post! candelista May 2015 #167

'Centrist' nowdays PeoViejo May 2015 #159

I think "pushing HRC left" is a valid point. DirkGently May 2015 #169

How Bernie Sanders will help Hillary Clinton in the general election Gothmog May 2015 #170

Anyone know what Bernies full name is? I was just curious to see if it was anything the right brewens May 2015 #172

Bernard Scary Socialist Sanders. n/t winter is coming May 2015 #175

Try living in the real world. william cail May 2015 #180

Don't get hung up on "further" . . . MrModerate May 2015 #188

K & R GoneFishin May 2015 #189

More like 'force Hillary Clinton's handlers to move the bullshit campaign rhetoric to the left'. Marr May 2015 #190

Did you see this? rbnyc May 2015 #193

You're right, it is insulting to both Sanders and to Clinton... NYC_SKP May 2015 #194

I no longer have the energy to respond to these kinds of posts. cheapdate May 2015 #196

Then I suggest you quit the DU, problem solved! Nt Logical May 2015 #206

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll give it all the consideration it's due! cheapdate May 2015 #207

+1000 nt Logical May 2015 #205

I agree NYC_SKP davidpdx May 2015 #209

I dunno, sounds like one of those phrases tossed in to make the thing sound reasonable. ucrdem May 2015 #214

Sanders will make the Democratic Primaries... HoosierCowboy May 2015 #215

Bernie for the win. Paka May 2015 #218

"force Hillary Clinton further left" is code-speak for -- Nuclear Unicorn May 2015 #219

I love that you shared what happened with that college date. NYC_SKP May 2015 #226

The rec's for this op speaks for itself. Bonus: It's pissing off all the "right" people. L0oniX May 2015 #221

I am going to ask for turbinetree May 2015 #222

Relax - this has only begun. RiverNoord May 2015 #223

First, "further left" implies that she's left, AlbertCat May 2015 #225

Sanders will make HRC a better general election candidate Gothmog May 2015 #228

What are we really saying here??? MrMickeysMom May 2015 #242

Sanders is not viable in a contested primary or in the general election Gothmog May 2015 #243

I don't see how you can make a statement like that... MrMickeysMom May 2015 #244

You do realize that DU does not represent the entire Democratic party Gothmog May 2015 #246

Yes, I understand statistical analysis, if that is what you mean... MrMickeysMom May 2015 #251

I look forward to revisiting this thread later after some primaries Gothmog May 2015 #252

WDW? MrMickeysMom May 2015 #253

Walt Disney World Gothmog May 2015 #255

Look out..there are those that when they talk about Bernie Sanders INdemo May 2015 #231

Yep. "He can't win, but might push Clinton..." NYC_SKP May 2015 #232

Sanders will make HRC a better general election candidate Gothmog May 2015 #245

Hillary learned from Obama. Lot's of Dem suckers willing to WhaTHellsgoingonhere May 2015 #237

Learning to run a campaign from President Obama is not a bad thing Gothmog May 2015 #248

If Clinton wins the primary, she'll lose in the general election to the GOP. We need Sanders. NYC_SKP May 2015 #254

Agreed... MrMickeysMom May 2015 #256

How is Sanders going to compete in a general election contest? Gothmog May 2015 #257

On one of the morning shows today fadedrose May 2015 #247

I have yet to hear a good explanation as to how Sanders will be a viable general election candidate Gothmog May 2015 #261

I'll just refer you back to 2007 and OFA, Obama's campaign, and toss in OWS and MoveOn. NYC_SKP May 2015 #263

Thank you for the laughs Gothmog May 2015 #264

People are jumping ship. NYC_SKP May 2015 #266

Time will tell Gothmog May 2015 #268

And yet she is still polling 81% among Democrats Gothmog May 2015 #278

do you think management wins the day or labor? PowerToThePeople May 2015 #276

And I was on the Obama voter protection team and also gave to OFA Gothmog May 2015 #277

Hillary isn't going to take the caucuses for granted again. If she hadn't in 2008 she wins going stevenleser May 2015 #267

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2015 #274