General Discussion

muriel_volestrangler

(106,212 posts)

167. So if this isn't about 'provocation', are you saying that we should just expect attacks on Geller

Tue May 5, 2015, 11:28 AM

May 2015

permanently, without reference to what she does; and that we should not blame the attackers? That if Geller and Wilders had been having afternoon tea, that blaming the attackers rather than her would be 'supporting her'?

"I have no issue with being provocative ... and the political nut cases who intentionally and methodically provoked others have responsibility"

You seem to be contradicting yourself. If you have no issue with being provocative, then why mention that they provoke other people?

I think (and I thought I'd said this already) that the 2 gunmen are solely responsible for the injury of the officer, and their own deaths. I think Geller and Wilders have an unreasonable hatred of Muslims, but that they are not breaking any American laws, which are governed by the First Amendment, and is an important factor here. I think drawing Mohammed is fine, and I have posted such drawing on DU at times.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

193 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

I have the First Amendment right to draw Muhammad, Jesus, Buddha, and Doctor Strange [View all] derby378 May 2015 OP

Just cuz you can tazkcmo May 2015 #1

How long must we be afraid of "consequences?" derby378 May 2015 #4

Then we're on the same page. tazkcmo May 2015 #66

Geller is a reverse Stochastic terrorist, the person who is responsible for the incitement. Katashi_itto May 2015 #131

Like Limbaugh, Fox et.al. riqster May 2015 #156

Assuming everything you said about Geller is true (and I'm inclined to agree)... derby378 May 2015 #162

"It's like going to a popular beach pouring chum in the water and walking away." trotsky May 2015 #180

Every group has it's sharks. Look at Westboro. Katashi_itto May 2015 #193

Just because you do doesn't open you up to injury and death PeaceNikki May 2015 #7

Not appropriate or legal. tazkcmo May 2015 #71

Sure. Like being gay in public or walking into an abortion clinic. PeaceNikki May 2015 #72

+1 progressoid May 2015 #114

Tell that to every religious loudmouth that berates LGBT people all day every day. Bluenorthwest May 2015 #8

It's like the Westboro Baptist cultists learned the hard way... derby378 May 2015 #17

We create, they destroy. Bluenorthwest May 2015 #34

+1 Mosby May 2015 #50

I do. tazkcmo May 2015 #74

Jesus Christ on a trailer hitch pintobean May 2015 #12

If religious people attempt to make consequences, then we should not submit FLPanhandle May 2015 #20

Standing up for voting rights used to mean a lynching. Codeine May 2015 #21

Many of these "objections" from people are starting to sound like the Indiana law. Behind the Aegis May 2015 #41

Precisely. Codeine May 2015 #44

Spot on. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #137

Yes, very predictable. Behind the Aegis May 2015 #140

Just cuz you can SlipperySlope May 2015 #38

Well, you CAN as a North Korean make fun of Dear Leader NutmegYankee May 2015 #54

And some "consequences" carry penalties. WinkyDink May 2015 #55

Sometimes - especially in the case of religion - one can and one should. GoneOffShore May 2015 #94

Those consequences should be in kind, though Scootaloo May 2015 #110

What about drawing respectful pictures of Mohammed? oberliner May 2015 #130

It's cool derby378 May 2015 #166

You will certainly get no argument from me. lapislzi May 2015 #2

You also have the first amendment right to burn a cross Capt. Obvious May 2015 #3

True, but what good would that do anybody? derby378 May 2015 #10

The same good that drawing a muhammed cartoon would Capt. Obvious May 2015 #15

Your point? I can burn the flag, too. On my own property. WinkyDink May 2015 #58

As far as Doctor Strange, nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #5

Point taken derby378 May 2015 #19

Frankly I'm surprised that Disney has not SwankyXomb May 2015 #128

Actually Marvel Characters you see a lot nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #129

Disney's owned Marvel for a while now SwankyXomb May 2015 #132

They might nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #133

Of course you can. earthside May 2015 #6

"good old fashioned religious warfare." Nuclear Unicorn May 2015 #14

Oh, Geller is for killing Muslims. earthside May 2015 #27

++++++++ uppityperson May 2015 #16

I hate to see my hometown become ground zero derby378 May 2015 #23

And here is a far more nuanced legal argument nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #9

The First Amendment prevents the government from stopping you but ... Kablooie May 2015 #11

Death and violence are not legal expressions of free speech. PeaceNikki May 2015 #13

That's just what I said. Kablooie May 2015 #18

Re: "you have to accept dealing with the fallout. " (I disagree) 951-Riverside May 2015 #24

What about things like civil rights movement in the 60's? metalbot May 2015 #33

Sorry, that's not how the U.S. Constitution works. WinkyDink May 2015 #60

Bullshit. Codeine May 2015 #95

How delightfully fascist Telcontar May 2015 #146

Like we said, you aren't fooling anyone. Starry Messenger May 2015 #161

Funny how your parenthetical IS THE POINT IN QUESTION. WinkyDink May 2015 #59

Dormammu's followers say otherwise!! nt Codeine May 2015 #22

Would it help if I offered to coif his hair? derby378 May 2015 #28

Free speech is indeed free. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #25

But when the simplest little things incite, what then? JCMach1 May 2015 #96

You also have the right to remain silent (or in this case, leave your canvas blank). Comrade Grumpy May 2015 #26

+1000 n/t 951-Riverside May 2015 #30

Says you. lapislzi May 2015 #37

I recognize your right to be a dick. I just try not to encourage it. Comrade Grumpy May 2015 #47

Eh, most of the time I try not to be. lapislzi May 2015 #56

No, the dicks are the ones stopping people from putting something on the canvas. FLPanhandle May 2015 #49

They're dicks, too. Murderous ones, as opposed to merely offensive. Comrade Grumpy May 2015 #53

I agree get the red out May 2015 #79

Being a dick is actually a big part of much art. nt Codeine May 2015 #92

I'll defend the right of anyone to say or draw anything they want. Maedhros May 2015 #29

Blaming the attackers =/= putting that asshole on a pedestal. PeaceNikki May 2015 #31

Well said (n/t) derby378 May 2015 #35

you can but it's probably not to smart to retain a venue for a picture show, surround yourself with Sunlei May 2015 #32

I agree that the GISD was quite negligent, if not flat-out stupid, to host this venue derby378 May 2015 #42

when one looks at events this venue holds, I don't see any 'similar' events at all. Sunlei May 2015 #75

it was the venue for a pro-Muslim event earlier in the year muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #159

yes, but look at the list it is majority school functions. never had a hate group. Sunlei May 2015 #178

Do you expect a school district to make the judgement on whether people are a hate group muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #181

yes, the person using the venue has to pay for insurance, security. Venues are not open to lease to Sunlei May 2015 #183

"Not smart" is not synonymous with "illegal" here. But "murder in retaliation? Yeah, ILLEGAL. WinkyDink May 2015 #62

Okay. 99Forever May 2015 #36

Same goes for the gay couple holding hands walking down a public street, huh? PeaceNikki May 2015 #43

Is that what I said? 99Forever May 2015 #46

How's it different? PeaceNikki May 2015 #48

... 99Forever May 2015 #51

It's not. PeaceNikki May 2015 #52

Good post. Behind the Aegis May 2015 #69

Having a tiff with yourself? 99Forever May 2015 #77

Dunno why you're laughing, you just got wrecked nt Lordquinton May 2015 #136

If you say so. 99Forever May 2015 #144

I say so too. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #148

WTF? 99Forever May 2015 #151

She asked how it's different. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #153

Let me see... who else uses that "I gotta RIGHT" line? 99Forever May 2015 #155

It's also used by the organisers of gay pride marches muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #160

Can I be your friend? derby378 May 2015 #164

I see. 99Forever May 2015 #179

You were trying to paint "I've got a right" as a bad thing to say muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #182

Wow, that's an impressive logic fail you've got, there. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #184

'You freakin' people,' 'REALLY suck at it.' Call Me Wesley May 2015 #188

Don't attempt to put words in my mouth and ... 99Forever May 2015 #191

+1000 get the red out May 2015 #80

It's not. Dr. Strange May 2015 #85

Hell Yeah! NutmegYankee May 2015 #67

Please don't compare gay couples walking hand in hand with virilent racists Islamaphobes. stone space May 2015 #158

Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. Vinca May 2015 #39

Not comparable. WinkyDink May 2015 #63

Okay. Am I free to enter a movie theatre and yell "fire?" No. Vinca May 2015 #81

And this is why we must never protest against our government. Dr. Strange May 2015 #86

What's that got to do with yelling "fire" in a theatre and creating panic? Vinca May 2015 #122

Look at the history of the phrase. Dr. Strange May 2015 #125

Yeah, Geraldo Rivera tried this one, too. NOT COMPARABLE. The "FIRE!" argument is based on an WinkyDink May 2015 #152

That would also be because you do not have the freedom to do so. NutmegYankee May 2015 #73

Maybe that was a poor example. Vinca May 2015 #82

Yes you do, and anyone who thinks otherwise... NaturalHigh May 2015 #40

My point exactly derby378 May 2015 #45

There is no limit to what you can draw or write as long as you don't publish it. Cleita May 2015 #57

Are you REALLY comparing a physical danger from a CAR to people's being sensitive about a drawing?! WinkyDink May 2015 #65

Maybe not a good metaphor. I'm not saying anything. I'm saying we need to start discussing Cleita May 2015 #70

We have had a discussion about free speech. Codeine May 2015 #90

Esch. No one cares about blasphemy actually if directed toward some if not all Cleita May 2015 #97

Aww, someone here is still upset that their use of bigoted words was alerted on... Humanist_Activist May 2015 #141

Could you tell me what word I used that were bigoted? I used plain Cleita May 2015 #174

Maybe we dont. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #185

I actually drew Dr. Strange once. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #61

I will smite your ass in great and furious anger. Dr. Strange May 2015 #84

In America we shouldn't have to worry about our Rights drawing gunfire. ileus May 2015 #64

You're right, we shouldn't have to but... justiceischeap May 2015 #76

Then this needs to be done even *more* often Bonx May 2015 #87

Absolutely, there is no question about that LondonReign2 May 2015 #68

No discussion get the red out May 2015 #78

do you understand it had NOTHING to do with the freedom to draw? Skittles May 2015 #83

You have a problem with the 'teabagging NUTCASES' exercising free speech ? Bonx May 2015 #88

Provoking them with drawings. Codeine May 2015 #91

This message was self-deleted by its author Skittles May 2015 #105

That is the bare, naked truth and it sickens me that people think this is about freedom of speech. cbayer May 2015 #93

Like it or not, it is derby378 May 2015 #98

I haven't at any point suggested that anyone's freedoms be curtailed. cbayer May 2015 #101

that's the latest meme, cbayer Skittles May 2015 #102

Yes, and this is going to be some hard crow to eat, but cbayer May 2015 #107

she has already won Skittles May 2015 #111

Not everyone, Skittles, but far too many. cbayer May 2015 #112

So, you agree with calling those religious people 'nutcases'; surely that's provocative? muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #163

What? I have no issue with being provocative. You? cbayer May 2015 #165

So if this isn't about 'provocation', are you saying that we should just expect attacks on Geller muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #167

Why are you putting words in my mouth instead of just listening to what I am saying. cbayer May 2015 #168

You have accused people who point out her 1st amendment rights to hold the exhibition muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #169

I have done no such thing. cbayer May 2015 #170

"You have made this personal, as usual". That's even more personal. muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #171

Yes, it is. You seem intent in finding something wrong with what I have said cbayer May 2015 #172

I'm referring to what you have said on this subject; you refer to something I do 'as usual' muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #173

You are distorting what I am actually saying. cbayer May 2015 #175

YES I THINK PEOPLE WHO SHOOT PEOPLE OVER CARTOONS ARE NUTCASES!!!!!!!!!!! Skittles May 2015 #189

My post was about the inconsistency of 'provoking' muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #190

DONE HERE Skittles May 2015 #192

Yep. That subtlety seems lost on the hair on fire crowd. eom Cleita May 2015 #177

For the record: if any of you draws a picture of me... Dr. Strange May 2015 #89

Hmmmm.. is that a promise?? darkangel218 May 2015 #109

It's a threat. Dr. Strange May 2015 #119

Lmao!!! darkangel218 May 2015 #120

What about cosplay? progressoid May 2015 #117

Those are acceptable. Dr. Strange May 2015 #121

The response to cartoons you find offensive is NEVER to get a gun. alarimer May 2015 #99

Yeah, reall easy to say and do in a free society...try doing that in an Islamic country and then Rex May 2015 #100

QED derby378 May 2015 #108

post not complete without: panader0 May 2015 #103

You forgot Satan. and the god of Beer. darkangel218 May 2015 #104

Funny you should mention that... derby378 May 2015 #113

Do you mind sharing with me who the priest was? darkangel218 May 2015 #115

No problem - check your PM. (n/t) derby378 May 2015 #118

Thank you. Very interesting and eloquent presentation. darkangel218 May 2015 #126

The first amendment is a shield, not a sword. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2015 #106

Ever listen to the FRIENDLY FASCISM album by Consolidated? derby378 May 2015 #116

Those Charlie Hebdo cartoonists FORCED those people to shoot them! Warren DeMontague May 2015 #139

More victim blaming. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #138

Pam Geller is not a victim. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2015 #142

Oh, give me a break. You know EXACTLY what I'm saying. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #143

Yes, you're saying Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2015 #145

Yep, you are now apologizing for people who shoot guns at cartoonists. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #147

I'll let my post speak for itself too. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2015 #149

Right, or when gay people bully christian fundamentalists by getting married or not hiding their Warren DeMontague May 2015 #150

My right to free speech does not mean LynnTTT May 2015 #123

I disagree. darkangel218 May 2015 #124

But your examples are not "in kind." Creating a vocal public disturbance is illegal; destroying WinkyDink May 2015 #154

A nation of fear, divided by the 1st amendment. Call Me Wesley May 2015 #127

So, tell us what you really think! Major Hogwash May 2015 #134

Well, it's a sloppery slope. Call Me Wesley May 2015 #186

Yeah, well, you're a foreigner and therefore inferior. Dr. Strange May 2015 #135

Heh! Call Me Wesley May 2015 #187

People really should read deathrind May 2015 #157

Go ahead. Buzz Clik May 2015 #176