General Discussion

RadiationTherapy

(5,818 posts) Tue May 5, 2015, 11:33 AM May 2015

Is this the relationship islam wants with democratic nations founded on enlightenment ideals? [View all]

*Some of you will recognize that I am borrowing this question from Christopher Hitchens*

Will you demand pre-emptive censorship in nations with histories that include centuries of tradition founded on free speech, free expression, and - in the single case of the USA - a secular government?

Will you demand that blasphemy be pre-emptively censored for fear of retribution and feigned "righteous anger?" Is this the relationship you want to have with free, democratic people who base their freedoms in the enlightenment ideals of free speech and expression? Will you be part of the group who demands we regress as a culture for fear of retribution or "insult" to others?

65 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Is this the relationship islam wants with democratic nations founded on enlightenment ideals? [View all] RadiationTherapy May 2015 OP

"What about...those who believe that ethical life is possible without religion? RadiationTherapy May 2015 #1

superstition and myth do not like to be examined or questioned nt msongs May 2015 #2

Well, they will have a hell of a time in nations that value free speech, free expression, satire, RadiationTherapy May 2015 #6

When you engage in illegal wars and occupations malaise May 2015 #3

I believe I and anyone else leftynyc May 2015 #4

Centuries of free speech and free expression - hard fought for and hard defended - RadiationTherapy May 2015 #7

Me too leftynyc May 2015 #8

I'm flattered you like my word-slaw. RadiationTherapy May 2015 #11

I second your stand. hifiguy May 2015 #24

Thank you for your supportive comment. RadiationTherapy May 2015 #57

Thanks for the link to the poll of global Muslim attitudes. Some good along with the bad. pampango May 2015 #9

Why didnt you include this little tidbit NoJusticeNoPeace May 2015 #29

You think that helps leftynyc May 2015 #44

I named the enlightenment ideals that I was referring to. RadiationTherapy May 2015 #5

people need to understand that "free speech" is over. It's a terrible idea. There is no need to say Warren DeMontague May 2015 #10

I would hate to see the principles of satire, sarcasm, irony, mockery, and absurdity - so well RadiationTherapy May 2015 #14

Checked all the boxes... Oktober May 2015 #15

The Holmes example was "FALSELY yelling fire in a crowded theater." hifiguy May 2015 #25

It's amazing that the 'fighting words' crowd does not see Christian preachers like Phelps as being Bluenorthwest May 2015 #17

I don't think there is a single member of the "fighting words" crowd who did not see Phelps as ... ieoeja May 2015 #19

And yet in reality, Phelps and Co did hundreds of attacks on LGBT funerals and other events without Bluenorthwest May 2015 #52

Assault is a law if you swing and miss. AngryAmish May 2015 #59

And boom goes the dynamite... SidDithers May 2015 #18

Mossedegh probably believed in democratic ideals. Starry Messenger May 2015 #12

I am not familiar with this name or the story behind it. RadiationTherapy May 2015 #20

He nationalized Iranian oil resources. hifiguy May 2015 #27

I don't think that worked out well, no. RadiationTherapy May 2015 #47

It's a story that makes the idea that the US embodies enlightenment ideals kind of a joke. Starry Messenger May 2015 #34

Thank you. That is interesting and worthwhile information. RadiationTherapy May 2015 #46

Most people with an astute grasp of history understand that the CIA overthrowing Mossadegh was a Warren DeMontague May 2015 #36

Never said it did, Warren. Starry Messenger May 2015 #37

Certainly one can trace a lot of problems back to that supremely bad decision. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #41

Yes, excellent book. Starry Messenger May 2015 #48

Nobody was better at smacking down religious fundamentalists sufrommich May 2015 #13

Only when it's someone we don't approve of doing it seveneyes May 2015 #16

"Islam wants"? H2O Man May 2015 #21

Yes. "Islam wants" RadiationTherapy May 2015 #22

Ask him/her. H2O Man May 2015 #23

I have rhetorically inquired the 1000 million self-identifying muslims in general. RadiationTherapy May 2015 #40

When did it ask? jberryhill May 2015 #54

I am asking is this is what the 1000s of millions of people who identify as Muslim RadiationTherapy May 2015 #58

What Do People Named "Bob" Think? jberryhill May 2015 #60

No. Does everyone who calls themselves Bob believe in a single infallible book RadiationTherapy May 2015 #61

Not every self-identified Muslim does either jberryhill May 2015 #62

Cool. I wish the reformist movement the best. I hope it is as painless as can be. RadiationTherapy May 2015 #63

Perhaps you have failed to notice jberryhill May 2015 #65

Who do you presume you are speaking to, with this OP? Scootaloo May 2015 #26

Islam is not a person. Different Muslims want different things. Donald Ian Rankin May 2015 #28

As well as an awful lot of christians want to discriminate against gays and minorities, hell NoJusticeNoPeace May 2015 #30

Some far more so than others. Donald Ian Rankin May 2015 #32

The question is whether this enlightenment will be achieved through a relationship or isolation. n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #31

"islam wants"? 0rganism May 2015 #33

It's their label, not mine. It's not my problem. RadiationTherapy May 2015 #38

Why? jberryhill May 2015 #53

I don't expect to hear apologies from atheists for Stalin or Pol Pot. RadiationTherapy May 2015 #56

Which Islam? Sufi? Shia? Sunni? Maedhros May 2015 #35

I don't know. Is that like catholic and protestant RadiationTherapy May 2015 #39

When one is ignorant of the subject, one should refrain from pontificating on it.[n/t] Maedhros May 2015 #42

+1 a la izquierda May 2015 #43

Do you think the subject is the history of denominational divergences in the RadiationTherapy May 2015 #45

Look - you're self-admittedly ignorant of even the most basic details of Islam, Maedhros May 2015 #49

I am comfortable enough with what I know to inquire via a post on DU. RadiationTherapy May 2015 #50

Yes - the fact that you are comfortable with your ignorance is the primary problem. Maedhros May 2015 #51

I definitely seem to belong on your ignore list. RadiationTherapy May 2015 #55

"for fear of retribution and feigned 'righteous anger?'" Buzz Clik May 2015 #64