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stevenleser

(32,886 posts)

112. In other words, you offer wishful thinking against 24 years of Bernies inability to affect change.

Reply to stillwaiting (Reply #45)

Tue May 5, 2015, 10:42 AM

May 2015

It doesn't work.

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Bernie Sanders wrote the ACA clause that allowed for VT to try single payer, but VT failed to raise [View all] pnwmom May 2015 OP

So that was the fault of Bernie? eloydude May 2015 #1

Yes, if he is claiming he is a leader. If he is claiming he can affect radical changes. stevenleser May 2015 #4

Where is Obama's? cui bono May 2015 #185

No, the Governor didn't "ditch it as soon as he could". The Governor knew he couldn't make it okaawhatever May 2015 #9

The Governor gave up after years of trying to get the tax increases through the legislature. pnwmom May 2015 #14

Really? Who are these people? Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2015 #51

SUPPORT A CANDIDATE DONT TEAR SOMEONE ELSE'S DOWN. Agschmid May 2015 #53

You haven't shown it is flawed. You're trying to avoid the discussion at all. pnwmom May 2015 #57

The whole premise of your argument is flawed... Agschmid May 2015 #58

When you claim that Sanders is SO much more progressive than Obama has been, pnwmom May 2015 #60

Ted Kennedy is dead, Obama is up against term limits... Agschmid May 2015 #63

My candidate will be whoever wins the primary. pnwmom May 2015 #68

Okay let's flip the question, how will Hillary pass progressive legislation in a country... Agschmid May 2015 #69

I asked first but I'll answer anyway. pnwmom May 2015 #73

She's not the one claiming she can. Sanders entire reason for running is based on it. nt stevenleser May 2015 #153

What? What a load... cui bono May 2015 #188

well he did offer the amendment that got the fed audited questionseverything May 2015 #164

You're wildly misinformed about Bernie Sanders JonLP24 May 2015 #96

What ideological purity? Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2015 #129

In 24 years, why hasn't he written more bills? And why do people here lionize him as such pnwmom May 2015 #194

I have no idea why he's written or not written more bills. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2015 #198

What is the reason for Obama's failures? Obama? cui bono May 2015 #187

Come on now. You know that applies only to criticism of Hillary. merrily May 2015 #79

First, I haven't seen anyone saying that. Second, in this case, Sanders Marr May 2015 #116

Saying what? That he tried to get it through for years? And the Governor pnwmom May 2015 #117

Saying that Sanders will 'single handedly wrench the country to the left". Marr May 2015 #119

"You're trying to paint Sanders as an ineffectual idealist, and his supporters as out-of-touch... stevenleser May 2015 #126

He's passed more than Clinton, so what's with the crowing? Marr May 2015 #135

He was in congress three times as long. And yet again evades the question. stevenleser May 2015 #136

Three times zero is zero. Marr May 2015 #143

So there is no reason for a Sanders Presidency. He can't accomplish anything. Thats your answer. nt stevenleser May 2015 #144

Is that the only way you can win an argument? Marr May 2015 #155

What legislation that is good for the country would Republicans support? Bjorn Against May 2015 #145

Then, see my #144. nt stevenleser May 2015 #151

144 does not answer my question at all Bjorn Against May 2015 #163

The Republican Senators won't vote to pass Obama's agenda either Bjorn Against May 2015 #139

Nice ad hominem. Bernie is the one running on a transformative agenda. The onus is on him and his stevenleser May 2015 #141

Are you no longer a Fox News analyst? Bjorn Against May 2015 #148

I've never worked for any television network. I have been a recurring guest on several. stevenleser May 2015 #150

This is a general question that Bernie is going to need to answer. stevenleser May 2015 #2

I'd rather have a very authentic and honest politician who cares about the 99%'ers. eloydude May 2015 #5

Evading the questions I raised won't help. nt stevenleser May 2015 #6

I think the bottom line is the person has to be able to beat the Rethugs in the general. pnwmom May 2015 #15

It's embarassing to see you belittle Bernie's policy positions to... Agschmid May 2015 #59

No, it's embarrassing to see people evade the real questions about what he can get done. nt stevenleser May 2015 #127

It's not an evasion, it's a legitimate "I don't know"... Agschmid May 2015 #165

that's admitting you don't care if anything actually passes treestar May 2015 #158

That information is easy to find frazzled May 2015 #10

Yep, I've seen his legislative history. He can't say he can get done the kinds of things stevenleser May 2015 #11

Have you included in your search of his legislative history ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #30

How in the world would you expect one of the few uncorrupted politicians to be able to stillwaiting May 2015 #35

The excuses don't matter unless you can explain why it would change stevenleser May 2015 #41

Electing someone President who can radically shift Americans understanding stillwaiting May 2015 #45

In other words, you offer wishful thinking against 24 years of Bernies inability to affect change. stevenleser May 2015 #112

All of the media spokespeople are sure to be saying that over the next year. stillwaiting May 2015 #115

Because it's an obvious question given the circumstances that Bernie will have to answer. stevenleser May 2015 #125

I've already addressed what good a Sanders Presidency could bring to our nation. stillwaiting May 2015 #130

And it's all wishful thinking that has no chance of passing either house of congress. stevenleser May 2015 #132

Sanders can present his vision to get people in this country to vote for people that SUPPORT stillwaiting May 2015 #159

Right on. Ed Suspicious May 2015 #192

"The power of the president is the power to persuade." (Richard Neustadt) Sanders will leverage Ed Suspicious May 2015 #191

Which gives him exactly 1 more than Clinton. ieoeja May 2015 #12

Two differences. #1 - She's not running on a promise to remake the country in a progressive image. stevenleser May 2015 #13

And there you have it. Agschmid May 2015 #64

Yep. She's running for status quo. morningfog May 2015 #98

Nope, see my #102. Nt stevenleser May 2015 #103

Great to be back to the days of pragmatic woodchucks. morningfog May 2015 #146

Ad hominems do not answer the question about your candidate. nt stevenleser May 2015 #152

They are silly questions. morningfog May 2015 #167

IT'S HER TURN!!12 frylock May 2015 #168

That's correct. Her campaign would be about Liberal incrementalism. Which is the only thing possible stevenleser May 2015 #102

LOL-- so it's ok that Hillary's done less, because she's not trying to improve things anyway. Marr May 2015 #120

Nope. Interesting straw man though. nt stevenleser May 2015 #124

I'm glad for this thread and especially for this post. I don't see how in the world Sanders' action Number23 May 2015 #37

Remember when Kucinich was the "anointed one"? Sadly, their legislative successes are on par. Tarheel_Dem May 2015 #85

It's more than Hillary. Marr May 2015 #121

It's just that Hillary's a serious contender for the office, Bernie is not. He just talks alot. Tarheel_Dem May 2015 #200

I am 100% serious when I say that I don't understand any of this really breathless, almost manic Number23 May 2015 #171

"Significantly higher". They say it's "to push Hillary to the left", but how much of the party.... Tarheel_Dem May 2015 #199

This was just legislation he sponsored that passed JonLP24 May 2015 #99

He's been in congress 24 years. That spin doesn't work. He's running to radically change stevenleser May 2015 #104

It isn't spin JonLP24 May 2015 #105

It's spin. you're making excuses for why he couldn't do much in 24 years when he is running to be stevenleser May 2015 #108

I said make comparisons -- how does he stack up JonLP24 May 2015 #111

Thanks for your links. And you're right, passing legislation is just one bit of a Congress person's Number23 May 2015 #174

A lot of the bills & the record of Senate behavior are related to JonLP24 May 2015 #175

Compare him to others JonLP24 May 2015 #97

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words May 2015 #18

The points I raised suggest there is no reason for him to be the nominee stevenleser May 2015 #47

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words May 2015 #50

yes. Ed Suspicious May 2015 #193

Actually, that is the problem with the Democrats in Congress, they won't necessarily stand by the still_one May 2015 #109

Politically, I believe you raise decent points. Raine1967 May 2015 #20

With your outlook we will just keep getting Republican policy, just like the last 6 years. cui bono May 2015 #189

Maybe because the people.... daleanime May 2015 #3

WAIT? By your logic Because Bernie is the FEDERAL Senator representing Vermont and got a clause diabeticman May 2015 #7

It proves there is a lack of evidence that he would be an EFFECTIVE President, pnwmom May 2015 #16

.... diabeticman May 2015 #19

That's a good point. It's sad though, and I applaud Sanders for trying. But we have to be realistic Hoyt May 2015 #8

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words May 2015 #17

This has nothing to do with Sanders DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #21

It does in the sense that the people who think he can lead somehow by pnwmom May 2015 #34

What role does a US Senator have in a state legislature? TheKentuckian May 2015 #22

He helped write the law that allocated ACA money to Vermont, making single-payer possible there. pnwmom May 2015 #24

It seems then that this is an example of him succeeding at his job, and the state politicians Chathamization May 2015 #49

He did succeed to the best the overarching situation would dictate. Once state pools and oversight TheKentuckian May 2015 #100

Is this the same as Hillary failing to get healthcare in the 90s? leftstreet May 2015 #23

Hillary learned from her mistakes and Obama basically took her revised plan pnwmom May 2015 #25

Better back up, John Edwards came up with the plan not Hillary. nt Snotcicles May 2015 #28

+1 Do you hear that beep beep beep of the truck backing up? L0oniX May 2015 #179

Actually it was written by the Heritage Foundation DURHAM D May 2015 #180

Not quite Edwards wanted it to evolve into single payer. And other differences. Snotcicles May 2015 #182

First you said the ACA was John's idea DURHAM D May 2015 #190

^^^THIS^^^ Bravo! Thread win. L0oniX May 2015 #178

I Will No Longer Settle For The Lesser Of Two Evils - Go Bernie Go cantbeserious May 2015 #26

This is a legitimate discussion and I would like to see answers better than "LOL" leftofcool May 2015 #27

I suspect that you would like to see answers like "Oh dear, I must switch to supporting Hillary", djean111 May 2015 #29

I would not want anyone to switch their support to Hillary. leftofcool May 2015 #31

+1 ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #32

Yeah, I rec'd because of the potential to have an interesting chat about this Number23 May 2015 #36

He wrote a health care provision that made it CanadaexPat May 2015 #33

His hair looks silly too DefenseLawyer May 2015 #38

So you don't want to have a serious discussion about his potential effectiveness as President. pnwmom May 2015 #39

I may have been implying that your "issue" was just as frivolous DefenseLawyer May 2015 #40

That's a weird distraction. Cha May 2015 #43

That is only a "serious question" for the most ardent of Clinton supporters DefenseLawyer May 2015 #46

I don't have a candidate.. and it's still a weird distraction about "Bernie's hair" which I find a Cha May 2015 #48

Karl Frisch, Democratic strategist, DefenseLawyer May 2015 #52

Isn't Karl Frisch one of the clowns on the Stephanie Miller Democratic talking point show? uncleverusername May 2015 #56

which is the reason why we can't have nice things in America Pooka Fey May 2015 #101

Reference for the youngsters here. -none May 2015 #162

Bernie was not the governor, or a part of the state legislature at the time... Agschmid May 2015 #42

He arranged for funding through the ACA, which gave Vermont the chance to set up pnwmom May 2015 #65

Government hasn't done anything significant for decades, might be nice to try something new. Agschmid May 2015 #67

I find it absolutely fascinating Aerows May 2015 #44

You misunderstood my point. I'm not questioning Vermont's liberalism. pnwmom May 2015 #61

Why do people think Aerows May 2015 #74

I don't think they are. But I want to know why you think Bernie Sanders pnwmom May 2015 #75

This is my point. Aerows May 2015 #87

Vermont is not as liberal as you think. uncleverusername May 2015 #54

Maybe not. But what states are more liberal? n/t pnwmom May 2015 #62

... Maybe Hawaii... Agschmid May 2015 #71

But... It is. Agschmid May 2015 #70

Things change. lovemydog May 2015 #55

It's a great question but I would still vote for the candidate that doesn't quit before starting. nt Bonobo May 2015 #66

Makes ya think about imaginary power vs. actual power. There is no magic wand. nt Hekate May 2015 #72

Ron Wyden wrote that clause. joshcryer May 2015 #76

I'm curious if he did, because if so then the OP's whole line of reasoning is BS. davidpdx May 2015 #91

Bernie attempted to move it to 2014. joshcryer May 2015 #92

Thanks for the answer davidpdx May 2015 #94

Gotta be 4%+ higher in Vermont. joshcryer May 2015 #95

Thanks for this information! n/t deutsey May 2015 #107

He created an opening. Others failed to use it. True Blue Door May 2015 #77

How did Hillary do with Hillarycare? How about her two anti free speech flag burning bills? merrily May 2015 #78

Which states are more liberal than Vermont? Hillary learned from the experience, pnwmom May 2015 #80

LOL! If you say so, it must be so. merrily May 2015 #81

You still haven't backed up your claim. Which states are more liberal than Vermont? n/t pnwmom May 2015 #82

That's your focus? SeriouslY? merrily May 2015 #84

Isn't that the focus of the thread? wyldwolf May 2015 #90

"Hillary learned from the experience". Do you know how aristocratic and gross that sounds? Marr May 2015 #123

Claiming someone learned from experience is a bad thing now if it's Hillary? stevenleser May 2015 #134

Helping to sell a war based on transparently bogus information is shameful. Marr May 2015 #137

Do you ever respond to what is actually being said? nt stevenleser May 2015 #142

I did respond, and kept to the actual point, which was Hillary's IWR vote. Marr May 2015 #149

No, her health care vote was the point. nt stevenleser May 2015 #154

You aren't very good at this. /nt Marr May 2015 #156

K&R Jamaal510 May 2015 #83

Three Vermonters respond to Gov. Shumlin’s decision on health reform eridani May 2015 #86

Different time quaker bill May 2015 #88

this, of course, isn't a reflection on Bernie's desire for single payer. It's more a reflection of.. wyldwolf May 2015 #89

It's more of a reflection to argue for the sake of it. joshcryer May 2015 #93

and of course the legislative branch is required. Some of President Obama's Democratic criticis still_one May 2015 #110

True. This is nothing new from that group. They think a President can govern by decree. stevenleser May 2015 #133

Yes, I've asked several Bernie supporters for names of GOP Senators who will vote for his agenda. stevenleser May 2015 #128

It is an excellent point, but regardless of Vermont, the fact was we did not have the votes to pass still_one May 2015 #106

The country needs to turn hard a-port. lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #113

The state asked for the waiver. I fail to see how the means that it was Bernie who got it. MN jwirr May 2015 #114

Tag team hatchet job. You and Leser are quite the pair. Comrade Grumpy May 2015 #118

Ad hominems and other techniques for evading the questions won't help. nt stevenleser May 2015 #131

I'm not evading questions; I'm ignoring silly shit-slinging and calling out the shit-slingers. Comrade Grumpy May 2015 #161

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words May 2015 #140

Well wait - I thought we had to criticize our leaders? treestar May 2015 #160

You can't answer the question, so you call names instead. That's helpful. pnwmom May 2015 #170

there is no question to answer. Bernie does not govern vermont or sit in its legislature. Warren Stupidity May 2015 #184

The question is: pnwmom May 2015 #186

"Leaving health care aside" blah blah blah blah blah blah. Warren Stupidity May 2015 #197

I hear he has boxes in his garage. /nt Marr May 2015 #122

Interesting. hrmjustin May 2015 #138

Hillary co wrote and sponsored a bill against flag burning... it failed Ichingcarpenter May 2015 #147

He's not a state official of Vermont treestar May 2015 #157

lots of obnoxious comments in this thread from champions of the status quo. m-lekktor May 2015 #166

you keep thinking you've seen how low the PUMAS will go, but it will get worse. Way worse Doctor_J May 2015 #173

"it is better to show up than to give up" Agony May 2015 #169

The president knew that the states would not be able to afford SP. The ACA was designed Doctor_J May 2015 #172

He doesn't have to lead the country left ...the country's left will be attracted to him and... L0oniX May 2015 #176

It's wrong to fault Sanders for Vermont and Obama for lack of Public Option RandySF May 2015 #177

It's not his fault but it still begs the question. pnwmom May 2015 #181

soooo that somehow means 70-90% of the country doesn't want Medicare for All? MisterP May 2015 #183

Much of the country already embraces "sharp left" issues -- Bernie isn't exactly radical. SMC22307 May 2015 #195

Completely unrecommended. Enthusiast May 2015 #196