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In reply to the discussion: No, the shootings are in no way excusable [View all]Maedhros
(10,007 posts)29. I think Geller was playing off the response to the Charlie Hebdo incident,
hoping to turn anti-Islamic bigotry into heroism.
Glenn Greenwald addresses the Hebdo incident here (http://www.salon.com/2015/05/05/it%E2%80%99s_pure_authoritarianism_glenn_greenwald_exposes_the_link_between_baltimores_uprising_and_the_nsa/) and I think some of the same sentiment applies to Geller's latest stunt:
Youve written a lot about the controversy over the PEN Freedom of Expression Courage Award being given to Charlie Hebdo, which has inspired a lot of writers to speak out in opposition. Why do you think this story is so important?
Its actually kind of a complex issue. I think any decent person is torn by the fact that what happened to the Charlie Hebdo cartoonists is obviously vile and repugnant. They are obviously people who were exercising what should be their right of free speech and they were killed because of it. And thats a bad and dangerous thing.
On the other hand, the way in which that incident was seized on was designed, I think, to bolster a very tribalistic and dangerous narrative, which is that we in the West are the advanced, progressive, enlightened people and there are these kind of marauding hordes, who are primitive and violent and threatening to all things decent, called Muslims or radical Islam. And this incident was seized on to bolster that narrative as kind of propagandistically and powerfully as anything that I can recall probably since the 9/11 attack.
So you have a magazine that became known in the Western world, regardless of what the reality is, for publishing images that are very offensive and upsetting to the Muslim minorities in the West, and whose cartoonists were turned into heroes and martyrs who were victims of Muslim violence. I think the reason why people are so eager to turn them into martyrs and heap all sorts of praise and awards on them is because it does make us Westerners feel good about ourselves; it tells us that were the victims and the people who weve been bombing and invading and torturing and pillaging for the last 15 years are actually the evil ones.
It fuels this whole war narrative that has been sustaining a lot of really bad policies in ways that are quite propagandistic and manipulative, because of the heavy emotions involved.
Its actually kind of a complex issue. I think any decent person is torn by the fact that what happened to the Charlie Hebdo cartoonists is obviously vile and repugnant. They are obviously people who were exercising what should be their right of free speech and they were killed because of it. And thats a bad and dangerous thing.
On the other hand, the way in which that incident was seized on was designed, I think, to bolster a very tribalistic and dangerous narrative, which is that we in the West are the advanced, progressive, enlightened people and there are these kind of marauding hordes, who are primitive and violent and threatening to all things decent, called Muslims or radical Islam. And this incident was seized on to bolster that narrative as kind of propagandistically and powerfully as anything that I can recall probably since the 9/11 attack.
So you have a magazine that became known in the Western world, regardless of what the reality is, for publishing images that are very offensive and upsetting to the Muslim minorities in the West, and whose cartoonists were turned into heroes and martyrs who were victims of Muslim violence. I think the reason why people are so eager to turn them into martyrs and heap all sorts of praise and awards on them is because it does make us Westerners feel good about ourselves; it tells us that were the victims and the people who weve been bombing and invading and torturing and pillaging for the last 15 years are actually the evil ones.
It fuels this whole war narrative that has been sustaining a lot of really bad policies in ways that are quite propagandistic and manipulative, because of the heavy emotions involved.
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beheading non believers is also considered the right thing to do in certain religions nt
msongs
May 2015
#1
Forcing children to do without medical care or medicine is also the "right thing to do",
Fred Sanders
May 2015
#2
Our close allies, the Saudis, seem to think it's the right thing to do for practically any transgression
whatchamacallit
May 2015
#3
No be "brave", if that's how you want to characterize Geller's provocation,
whatchamacallit
May 2015
#14
Nor do I. She's a savvy individual, and knows precisely which bottom-feeders will accept the bait
LanternWaste
May 2015
#9
If she knowingly and intentionally contributed to the violence and actually sought that result....
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#84
In short... You think that words and 'incitement' are enough to justify violence...
Oktober
May 2015
#35
Can you please explain to me what exactly you think I'm trying to justify here?
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#53
It should be noted that Geller's group *organized* the event. She herself was not a participant.
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#69
Will you please give it up with the whole "short skirt" analogy? That's a non-starter.
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#72
Did the ACLU/NAACP/Code Pink/whatever want to see a violent response that placed people in danger?
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#74
If she's claiming victimhood status--and guess what, she is--it does motivate her.
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2015
#78
They do - there's more room to debate because Geller is such a reprehensible person
el_bryanto
May 2015
#30
It is not an American tradition to insult and vilify an entire other religion, is it? Free speech
Fred Sanders
May 2015
#46