General Discussion

Tommy_Carcetti

(44,487 posts)

59. And a quick cut and paste of my response to your cut and paste.

Wed May 6, 2015, 11:32 AM

May 2015

Did the ACLU/NAACP/Code Pink/whatever want to see a violent response that placed people in danger?

If so, then they share some responsibility in their actions. Sure. Provide me a real life example of that happening, and if it is analogous to what Geller has done, I'll gladly assign them responsibility.

Trust me, I'm holding Geller to the same standard that I would hold anyone else.

No one individual should place the safety of the general public at risk for their own self-serving goals. No one. Kobayashi Maru, right?

So no. Pam Geller is not the victim. Perhaps she is not responsible to the point of criminal responsibility, but she bears some responsibility and you are pathetic if you are buying her "I'm a victim of Free Speech" spiel.

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Pam Geller lashes out at critics: You�re saying the �pretty girl caused her own rape� [View all] DonViejo May 2015 OP

She's right... Oktober May 2015 #1

In what way is she right? jberryhill May 2015 #27

Quick copy and paste for you... Oktober May 2015 #34

She is not a crime victim jberryhill May 2015 #42

Not a victim is right - that disgusting Islamaphobe is the REAL criminal. InAbLuEsTaTe May 2015 #107

Which implies that the shooters were not REAL criminals... Oktober May 2015 #109

No It Doesn't! ProfessorGAC May 2015 #221

Uh, yeah, it kind of does. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #394

Thank you for laying out what is so obvious... Oktober May 2015 #485

If a cartoon can cause you to murder someone, you have no place in civilized society. Shoulders of Giants May 2015 #475

If you keep creating straw men to respond to I am sure you will continue to be outraged. stevenleser May 2015 #234

Which implies that the shooters were not REAL criminals... AlbertCat May 2015 #273

your argument is meaningless. terrorists love the support. samsingh May 2015 #283

Not much reading comprehension, huh? AlbertCat May 2015 #308

being a shit disturber does not mean you get to KILL THEM samsingh May 2015 #284

being a shit disturber does not mean you get to KILL THEM AlbertCat May 2015 #310

She picked Garland, Texas because there was a Muslim conference there this year... Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #291

Awww. You mean you realize you're probably NOT going to be able to outlaw blasphemy? Warren DeMontague May 2015 #381

You mean you realize you're probably NOT going to be able to outlaw blasphemy? AlbertCat May 2015 #389

So why do you seem to think "she deliberately said something she knew was going to piss people off" Warren DeMontague May 2015 #393

Comparing feminism to bigotry. Why am I not surprised n/t kcr May 2015 #409

Way to deliberately miss the point. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #442

I'm not missing the point. You are. kcr May 2015 #456

I'm saying that arguing something isn't protected speech because it "might piss someone off" Warren DeMontague May 2015 #463

Who is saying something isn't protected speech? kcr May 2015 #467

I don't think she, personally, is a victim. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #470

Well, I'm sorry you saw an opinion you don't agree with on DU. Gosh. kcr May 2015 #471

And the subthread is about whether a) "she is the REAL criminal" and b) Warren DeMontague May 2015 #472

Yes, I did scroll up to see if maybe I missed something kcr May 2015 #474

It's not comparing her to Anita Sarkeesian, for one. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #477

Yes what they were saying and/or doing. That's what I meant. kcr May 2015 #478

It's a faulty argument. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #479

Ok why do you keep bringing up whether it's constitutionally protected? kcr May 2015 #480

I think she's an asshat. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #481

I agree. I don't think it's okay to use people like that as a weapon, either. kcr May 2015 #482

Ugh AlbertCat May 2015 #418

Anybody who deliberately seeks to put on a "Draw Mohammed" contest calimary May 2015 #387

She knew EXACTLY what she was doing. Trying to stir up shit. AlbertCat May 2015 #391

I'm guessing she picked Garland Texas because that's where, a week after the Charlie Hebdo killings, Petrushka May 2015 #390

And you don't find that extremely telling as per Geller's motives here? nt Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #399

slight clarification... keroro gunsou May 2015 #533

And a quick cut and paste of my response to your cut and paste. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #59

Charlie Hebdo, Andres Serrano, South Park.... Anyone that creates art mr_liberal May 2015 #91

Pam Geller's not the artist, either. nt Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #97

Or exhibits it: comedy central, the museum, the movie theater, etc.. nt. mr_liberal May 2015 #101

Is Comedy Central/the movie theater/museum showing the art because it wants violence? Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #104

No the difference is her event was about free speech, mr_liberal May 2015 #224

She scheduled this right after Charlie Hedbo and yet you think she's surprised it happened? Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #226

You must not be very familiar with ms. Gellar Scootaloo May 2015 #265

Not to mention she specifically held it in a place where she knew there were already tensions. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #268

So anyone who threatens violence wins, in the name of whatever cranky 'belief'. Yorktown May 2015 #459

if you read my post, you would know what I am saying Scootaloo May 2015 #462

I read your post, and highlighted its blind spot Yorktown May 2015 #469

WhatI say is that her freedom of speech was not in question Scootaloo May 2015 #486

You are making two fundamental mistakes Yorktown May 2015 #489

No difference at all The Green Manalishi May 2015 #229

So you're saying people should want violence for the sake of violence? Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #233

It does not matter The Green Manalishi May 2015 #424

Your argument may work somewhat in concept, but fails in reality. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #434

the word 'evil' is too strong, but yes, Islam itself poses problems Yorktown May 2015 #464

Any ideology, religious or secular, will inevitably have problems. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #500

I agree, but I see Pam Geller as being unwittingly useful Yorktown May 2015 #519

your make good points samsingh May 2015 #288

They have every right to be 'mental slaves' to a religion, if they so choose. Chemisse May 2015 #358

But they aren't leaving the rest of us alone oberliner May 2015 #408

Exactly EOM The Green Manalishi May 2015 #421

You can't blame the entire, huge Muslim world for the actions of a few. Chemisse May 2015 #443

"When people draw their prophet, it hurts and insults millions of Muslims..." oberliner May 2015 #446

The drawing of the pictures isn't even the problem. polly7 May 2015 #450

How about encouraging other Muslims who don't object to it? oberliner May 2015 #451

I believe most Muslims are far more tolerant than you, or Geller are making out. polly7 May 2015 #454

I believe the vast majority of Muslims are extremely tolerant oberliner May 2015 #460

It's demonizing and dehumanizing to those she's doing it to, isn't it? polly7 May 2015 #465

To quote Irish humorist Dave Allen... derby378 May 2015 #99

Please tell me you aren't serious... Oktober May 2015 #103

"Religion should be off limits for mockery" Are you fucking serious? cleanhippie May 2015 #248

Religion should be off limits for mockery. AlbertCat May 2015 #270

Difference between Geller and ACLU etal is one will fight for the right of anyone NoJusticeNoPeace May 2015 #231

...^ that 840high May 2015 #251

you make good points. too bad the terrorist apologists don't understand samsingh May 2015 #279

an event she promoted was ATTACKED by gunmen samsingh May 2015 #286

bullfuckingshit. how was she in any way victimized? frylock May 2015 #95

There's a bounty on her head now. 840high May 2015 #252

Oh, the humanity! frylock May 2015 #269

You must approve killing her. 840high May 2015 #345

no, i'm just not going to lose any sleep over the prospect.. frylock May 2015 #351

And here is her response to it. Careful, it might bring you to tears. cbayer May 2015 #272

I don't like her but she 840high May 2015 #342

She's not right. She's manipulative . cbayer May 2015 #347

Hold on, let me get my tiny violin. uncleverusername May 2015 #332

I'm sure it's very tiny. Try 840high May 2015 #348

Who is preventing her from saying her racist crap? uncleverusername May 2015 #349

So you and your tiny 840high May 2015 #353

Who said that? uncleverusername May 2015 #357

No, she isn't ann--- May 2015 #135

Welcome to America... Oktober May 2015 #160

Both were victims ann--- May 2015 #163

Scandalized you say! Oktober May 2015 #184

Guess you'd ann--- May 2015 #187

Define bonkers... Oktober May 2015 #193

You don't know when ann--- May 2015 #203

So if you don't know what will set someone off... Oktober May 2015 #218

It seems to me, that someone mentioned in another thread, just that sort of thing, in Iran. beevul May 2015 #246

and they're not? Churches are destroyed regularly in muslim dominated countries samsingh May 2015 #293

This site is mind-numbing at times... Inkfreak May 2015 #204

FWIW: Have you seen the winning cartoon? I just did a bing search and found this ---> Petrushka May 2015 #392

Geller is Jewish, don't really think she cares about Jesus all that much. Ikonoklast May 2015 #263

"a contest to see who could create the most hideous and hate-filled cartoon..." oberliner May 2015 #302

She's nothing but a cowardly shit stir-er notadmblnd May 2015 #162

How exactly does one hide behind an inalienable right? Oktober May 2015 #197

She used that as her excuse to exploit the ignorance and hatred of both Muslims and bigots notadmblnd May 2015 #419

One word answer: Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #429

One doesn't "hide" behind it... Inkfreak May 2015 #207

+100 840high May 2015 #254

I agree. BayouBengal07 May 2015 #245

^^^ This. N/T beevul May 2015 #247

+1 n/t X_Digger May 2015 #383

No she's not. uncleverusername May 2015 #328

I disagree. I never called her "pretty" or a "girl." Orsino May 2015 #414

Well she would be... SomethingFishy May 2015 #432

OMG! She's been reading DU. cbayer May 2015 #2

I know, I posted that analogy yesterday :) snooper2 May 2015 #6

You posted the analogy that she is like the pretty girl getting blamed for being raped? cbayer May 2015 #15

I do. PeaceNikki May 2015 #18

If somebody is assaulted by default they are a victim snooper2 May 2015 #20

Well, where we differ is that I don't think she went to a bar in a mini dress. cbayer May 2015 #26

She was not assaulted jberryhill May 2015 #29

Indeed, she only benefits from the attack. Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2015 #39

+1000 Erich! JustAnotherGen May 2015 #58

Wrong place. sorry. cbayer May 2015 #40

But she was shot at LittleBlue May 2015 #106

She was? Did she have to duck? Did bullets whiz by her head? Was she in the same room, even? GoneFishin May 2015 #133

Except she wasn't the victim. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #186

sounds like the same argument samsingh May 2015 #290

Except she wasn't assaulted. She got someone else shot. SomethingFishy May 2015 #433

You don't? What if a gay couple goes into a VERY RW town where a Jesus/homophobic rally is happening PeaceNikki May 2015 #50

They are most certainly victims and victims of a hate crime. cbayer May 2015 #54

It doesn't matter "what prompted their action and what they thought might happen." PeaceNikki May 2015 #65

I disagree, it does matter. cbayer May 2015 #85

We agree on one thing: Geller is a total fuckwad PeaceNikki May 2015 #88

Yes she is. cbayer May 2015 #90

How is your position any different than "dressed like a provocative slut, deserved what she got"? Warren Stupidity May 2015 #122

A personal expression of love vs. intentionally seeking to provoke violence to serve your agenda. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #56

But maybe the gay couple just met and they are just doing it to piss off the assholes. PeaceNikki May 2015 #66

And Pam Geller is who in your little analogy? Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #75

You don't see the slippery slope you support? PeaceNikki May 2015 #79

No, seriously. Explain to me how Pam Geller is the victim here. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #81

No seriously, you don't see the slippery slope you support? Not even a little? PeaceNikki May 2015 #83

This post is about Pam Geller comparing herself to a rape victim. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #92

.... "blathering" PeaceNikki May 2015 #158

Yeah, nice. So tell me again how Pam Geller is the victim here? nt Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #174

Why? So you we can keep bickering? Fuck it. You're not interested in discussing like an adult. PeaceNikki May 2015 #196

You haven't discussed anything. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #199

k PeaceNikki May 2015 #216

How is she the victim? oberliner May 2015 #361

My God, you're right. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #402

I respectfully dispute your analogy oberliner May 2015 #406

In your scenario, had there been past instances of violence over drawing Bush? Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #410

I get what you are saying oberliner May 2015 #415

I don't disagree. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #416

Good point oberliner May 2015 #417

They don't want to, but you're spot on. (nt) Inkfreak May 2015 #214

you are very patient with someone who clearly can't understand a simple question samsingh May 2015 #299

Attempted murder Matrosov May 2015 #93

Actually, legally speaking, there's no actual victim of an attempted (read: failed) crime. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #100

um wtf? Warren Stupidity May 2015 #126

Yes, attempted murder is a crime. No shit. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #154

wait - the target of the attempt is not a victim? Warren Stupidity May 2015 #173

In Pamela Geller's case, sure as hell she wasn't. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #175

So your reason why she isn't a victim is becasue Goblinmonger May 2015 #198

Holy strawman, Batman. What? Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #205

Well Goblinmonger May 2015 #235

Total bunk. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #237

I hire a hitman to kill my neighbor. AngryAmish May 2015 #212

I had to do a doubletake too. beevul May 2015 #304

The mob didn't violently attack them. The mob violently attacked someone else. jeff47 May 2015 #87

I know - but not for lack of trying! PeaceNikki May 2015 #89

And that's relevant, how? jeff47 May 2015 #98

You don't? Goblinmonger May 2015 #112

Yes, are you saying you don't? Humanist_Activist May 2015 #271

Then go ahead and get horrified, because if someone intentionally tries to entrap another person cbayer May 2015 #276

Oh, wow, entrapped into rape? Didn't know you were an MRA. n/t Humanist_Activist May 2015 #312

That's because I'm not an MRA. The description is clearly about entrapment cbayer May 2015 #313

Do you even know what entrapment is? Let me put it this way... Humanist_Activist May 2015 #315

Let me repeat the scenario for you with the important words highlighted in order cbayer May 2015 #318

Its still not entrapment unless you think she created the idea of being raped by... Humanist_Activist May 2015 #319

She hopes to be assaulted. She is creating a scenario which she hopes will cbayer May 2015 #320

Just like women who wear skirts that are too short when leaving a club at 3 AM... Humanist_Activist May 2015 #321

Women who wear short skirts leaving a club at 3AM don't hope to be assaulted. cbayer May 2015 #322

That's your assumption, not mine, I'm not the rape apologist here. n/t Humanist_Activist May 2015 #326

Actually you might be. You think a woman can wear a skirt that is "too short". cbayer May 2015 #329

You apparently have a threshold of "naked" trying to figure out where you draw the line. n/t Humanist_Activist May 2015 #333

How do you know what they "hope" or don't?? PeaceNikki May 2015 #337

OMG. You do know that we are discussing a very specific scenario in which the words cbayer May 2015 #352

Attack?? I'm having a discussion with you. Where did I attack? PeaceNikki May 2015 #355

OK, maybe that's a strong word. But you are going back and forth with another member cbayer May 2015 #360

BTW, what is your definition of a skirt that is too short? cbayer May 2015 #323

I'm don't have a standard there, a woman should be able to walk around, buck ass naked... Humanist_Activist May 2015 #330

No, actually, I totally agree with you. cbayer May 2015 #336

So where the fuck is the entrapment? n/t Humanist_Activist May 2015 #338

The non victim is "hoping" for it. PeaceNikki May 2015 #341

It is very fucked up. n/t Humanist_Activist May 2015 #343

And cbayer is the one who decides whether the alleged victim is really a victim or not. PeaceNikki May 2015 #346

see post #352 cbayer May 2015 #354

See post 353 PeaceNikki May 2015 #356

353? cbayer May 2015 #362

As long as they aren't "hoping" for it? So weird. PeaceNikki May 2015 #340

Who is responsible for coming to the conclusion whether one is a real victim or not? PeaceNikki May 2015 #331

That's a good and reasonable question. cbayer May 2015 #344

You ignored the rest of my reply. Who decides? PeaceNikki May 2015 #350

Ok, let's finalize this. I would always, always, always assume that in a case of cbayer May 2015 #359

This message was self-deleted by its author PeaceNikki May 2015 #363

You know, if someone actually and consciously sets up an assault, that's cbayer May 2015 #364

You aren't the decider of who the "real victims" are is the point. PeaceNikki May 2015 #366

We are talking about a scenario in which the person is already identified as hoping for an action. cbayer May 2015 #367

Nice try. beam me up scottie May 2015 #375

Seriously, you need to work on your comparisons, jumping in front of a moving car? Humanist_Activist May 2015 #369

Jump in front of a hard dick? Oh, my. I think I need my fainting couch. cbayer May 2015 #370

You are judging victims by what you believe they wanted to happen. beam me up scottie May 2015 #372

Let me put it this way, she wouldn't have total control over the situation... Humanist_Activist May 2015 #373

Not just expected, hoped that they would assault her. cbayer May 2015 #376

Again, how do you determine who is and who is not a real victim... Humanist_Activist May 2015 #377

Oh my god HA. This is my opinion. cbayer May 2015 #379

"This is my opinion." So? Does that excuse you from being wrong? Humanist_Activist May 2015 #382

For the last time YOU DON'T GET TO DECIDE WHO IS AND ISN'T A VICTIM beam me up scottie May 2015 #371

Has it occured to you that there are victims kcr May 2015 #411

A person who intentionally wants a specific result and gets that specific result is not a victim. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #413

i do. and anyone who doesn't is very sick samsingh May 2015 #296

Oh, dear. You think Pamela Geller is a hero. I wouldn't be so quick to call others sick, cbayer May 2015 #298

you're not me. i'm so happy about that. samsingh May 2015 #301

That makes two of us. cbayer May 2015 #303

Rapes are committed by individuals. This attack was committed by individuals. lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #422

Could very well be or having her goons read it.... AuntPatsy May 2015 #28

Yep. Because that lame rape analogy has really got legs here on DU. cbayer May 2015 #41

No it is an analogy that you cannot come up with a coherent response to other than "is not". Warren Stupidity May 2015 #127

LOL. nt Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #60

I don't like Pam Geller MosheFeingold May 2015 #111

Pam Geller did us a service? Are you serious? "Have at it, Ms. Geller"? cbayer May 2015 #115

I'm sorry I am not clear MosheFeingold May 2015 #130

Ok, that completely changes what I thought you meant and I appreciate cbayer May 2015 #143

Or she herself is on DU! mainer May 2015 #117

In fact, I think I just read a post that could possibly be her. cbayer May 2015 #119

She must have read the people who flamed my post RandySF May 2015 #494

The rightwing persecution complex rages on... JaneyVee May 2015 #3

Masters of Victimhood and Resentment. Fred Sanders May 2015 #11

when gunmen try to shoot you persecution is manifest Warren Stupidity May 2015 #46

Gunmen didn't try shooting her. JaneyVee May 2015 #51

So if they hadn't had been stopped, they would have...... Goblinmonger May 2015 #113

yeah, but they shot a security guard who doesn't count I guess. Warren Stupidity May 2015 #129

If this had been a Code Pink event Goblinmonger May 2015 #146

So she's a victim because a guy hired to protect her got shot? n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #497

Everyone at the event were targets. Warren Stupidity May 2015 #499

Problem was, not everyone was a willful target. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #501

"Hi Welcome to my victimhood event! Please hold still while I paint a target on your back." n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #502

Seriously? Warren Stupidity May 2015 #505

Compromised ethical system? lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #506

I was referring to persecution complex, not victim card. JaneyVee May 2015 #161

That mayor is an idiot for saying what he did. GGJohn May 2015 #4

yes. she. did. she deliberately chose the exact same place cali May 2015 #9

You're so right. How people can defend that knuckle-dragging right winger who puts innocent lives in danger is beyond me. InAbLuEsTaTe May 2015 #110

when we had the crazy do that with the koran here in amarillo, national news, we called him out. seabeyond May 2015 #10

We can have both and we should denounce her hate filled rhetoric, GGJohn May 2015 #13

of course she is to blame. that is her purpose and intent. why wouldnt we be honest. seabeyond May 2015 #22

She intentionally created a very volatile situation. KittyWampus May 2015 #47

there is an expectation for public venues to provide adequate safety. Knowingly holding an exhibit KittyWampus May 2015 #19

Failing to provide adequate security? cbayer May 2015 #44

You are probably correct. But one of the deceased might have a case. KittyWampus May 2015 #45

I think the only deceased are the gunmen and I don't think anyone is cbayer May 2015 #48

I am speaking theoretically. And pointing out liability goes further than legal. KittyWampus May 2015 #52

I understand. I hope that in the future towns will refuse to host events cbayer May 2015 #55

And when ultra-red areas of the country Goblinmonger May 2015 #120

I disagree with your hoped for results of this event. justhanginon May 2015 #141

That's a good point. cbayer May 2015 #145

Thats not enough. And thats the point you and so many others seem to miss. beevul May 2015 #249

None of this Free Speech martyrdom schtick means that Geller's the actual victim here. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #255

I don't miss the point at all. cbayer May 2015 #256

So, Wendy Davis' whole campaign would be too dangerous here in Texas, no? X_Digger May 2015 #386

Yes she did.... AuntPatsy May 2015 #30

No, she's not right. She's not a victim of any crime whatsoever jberryhill May 2015 #31

Why "pretty" girl? Richardo May 2015 #5

Because she's an asshole PeaceNikki May 2015 #16

Touche Richardo May 2015 #17

+1 ScreamingMeemie May 2015 #23

Only because she brought it up would I say this... randome May 2015 #21

RW idea that even rapists are looking for a beauty treestar May 2015 #170

No, you are morally liable for instigating it. You're an instigator, a provocateur. KittyWampus May 2015 #7

If a Christian extremist had bombed the gallery displaying "Piss Christ" (a crucifix in piss), Nye Bevan May 2015 #24

Possibly, & the gallery might've been liable f/ not having adequate security. KittyWampus May 2015 #37

"Piss Christ" was a protest against the commercialization of religious icons. trotsky May 2015 #74

What did they teach at University about criticism of art you have not seen? Bluenorthwest May 2015 #94

As I plainly stated, I never bothered to care about Serrano. I gave a first glance impression. KittyWampus May 2015 #114

How far will you go? Warren Stupidity May 2015 #132

But that is different seveneyes May 2015 #84

They have. It's been vandalized by Christian extremists. Starry Messenger May 2015 #155

If only all religious extremists would do nothing worse than hit a photo with a hammer (nt) Nye Bevan May 2015 #384

Provocation for the sake of provocation is not a trait of a pretty girl. Geller is a really now just Fred Sanders May 2015 #8

Agree n/t UTUSN May 2015 #32

She plays the victim card of a right wing religious extremist, complete lovemydog May 2015 #57

Exactly. What a false equivalent she's making. n/t deutsey May 2015 #178

The pretty girl can't help being pretty... ScreamingMeemie May 2015 #12

A lot of political headway has been made. Half-Century Man May 2015 #14

That's absurd - she is not a crime victim jberryhill May 2015 #25

So if you had a friend at a gay marriage protest Goblinmonger May 2015 #123

The no longer pretty girl has been asking to have her ass kicked for many years. elleng May 2015 #33

Since she's a far RW nutjob, I guess that means all of the people on DU saying the same thing are Erich Bloodaxe BSN May 2015 #35

How many DUers foolishly defending Geller have used that same line? Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #36

"two idiots fell for your trap" melman May 2015 #53

So in your mind is it impossible that in any situation two different parties may share the blame? Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #71

As in 'took the bait' AgingAmerican May 2015 #72

With intent, she successfully baited the lowest common denominators among us. LanternWaste May 2015 #38

And she's a coward for not admitting it. She's a coward and a liar. KittyWampus May 2015 #43

No one should be critical of Fox News lies for the same reason. gordianot May 2015 #49

a truly delusional wanna be cult leader/dictator olddots May 2015 #61

She poked a hornets nest with a stick AgingAmerican May 2015 #62

Cue the people who don't understand a metaphor. nt Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #63

A metaphor is a comparison Goblinmonger May 2015 #124

Yes, because people, like bees, sharks and bears can do NOTHING to control their reaction to stimuli PeaceNikki May 2015 #70

And cue Post 63. nt Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #76

I understand metaphors, I just call bullshit on it. There's a difference. PeaceNikki May 2015 #80

Her only regret AgingAmerican May 2015 #78

I know, she's a total fucking asshole. We all agree on that. PeaceNikki May 2015 #82

Yes, because humans are alway rational. And human behavior can't be manipulated. LOL KittyWampus May 2015 #374

She went home with that guy she didn't know... MellowDem May 2015 #180

Even if only two of the hornets in the nest took the bait, it's enough to blame the entire nest. n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #423

She's not pretty. nt bemildred May 2015 #64

Oh god, here we go again. justiceischeap May 2015 #67

Coward. randome May 2015 #73

Are we men or are we mice? I like cheese. justiceischeap May 2015 #77

That depends entirely on WHY the girl was pretty. DetlefK May 2015 #68

who's 'the pretty girl'? spanone May 2015 #69

If I were to post the following on DU as a real comment justiceischeap May 2015 #86

Thats analogous to the venue not renting her space, not people trying to kill her. eom mr_liberal May 2015 #96

so to be clear, Salmon Rushdie is responsible for the attacks against him, Charlie Hedbo is Warren Stupidity May 2015 #137

Language comes with responsibility in my opinion, yes. justiceischeap May 2015 #149

well at least you are consistent in your victim blaming. Warren Stupidity May 2015 #183

How is she a victim? justiceischeap May 2015 #192

Victim? Geller is not a victim, provocateurs are not victims. Fred Sanders May 2015 #305

She's no Charlie Hebdo. lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #425

because this wasn't about "berating", this was people with guns intending to kill people. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #380

I don't really see what the difference is LittleBlue May 2015 #102

Women who are raped do not want to be raped. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #105

The victim's intent is irrelevant, she's still a victim. LittleBlue May 2015 #108

Nobody can seem to answer me. How was she victimized? frylock May 2015 #121

Her group was shot at LittleBlue May 2015 #151

Her group was not shot at.. frylock May 2015 #153

Begging the question. In order for a specific person to be a victim.... Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #172

By most definitions Sgent May 2015 #509

Was she anywhere close to the line of fire? Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #510

Fair enough Sgent May 2015 #514

So Geller wanted to be shot. Is that your claim? Warren Stupidity May 2015 #138

Geller wanted a violent reaction to her event so she could have a bully pulpit about evil Islam. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #181

Suppose a woman dresses "provocatively" because she likes the reaction. Warren Stupidity May 2015 #190

So a woman would literally want to be raped? Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #195

No. Not what I said. Warren Stupidity May 2015 #206

If a woman dresses provocatively only for the intention of being looked at then that's her intention Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #220

Your claim is that Geller wanted a reaction and got one. Warren Stupidity May 2015 #223

Not just any reaction, she wanted a violent reaction. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #225

Touch�. Your logic is impeccable...it all leads to provocateurs being unable to claim victimhood. Fred Sanders May 2015 #427

Of course not. That's why she created an "event" - human shields. n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2015 #426

She's right of course... MellowDem May 2015 #116

How was Geller victimized? frylock May 2015 #118

Because her event was targeted by terrorists... MellowDem May 2015 #125

And that's just like being raped? frylock May 2015 #128

Well, it's like her old schoolmate who she only bumps into at reunions was raped. But it's the GoneFishin May 2015 #136

Who said it was? MellowDem May 2015 #139

No, we aren't ann--- May 2015 #144

Offensive speech is risky... MellowDem May 2015 #152

No, she should be blamed for hate speech ann--- May 2015 #167

She can be blamed for hate speech.. MellowDem May 2015 #168

I didn't see anyone ann--- May 2015 #191

There have been some... MellowDem May 2015 #200

Just like blaming ann--- May 2015 #208

I've come to the conclusion that, just like with Hedbo, this discussion is useless. Warren Stupidity May 2015 #210

Who said it was? SHE DID! frylock May 2015 #150

People blaming her are using rape apologist reasoning MellowDem May 2015 #156

What the actual fuck?!! frylock May 2015 #164

Yeah, she's going after the logic... MellowDem May 2015 #171

why don't you run that past an actual victim of rape.. frylock May 2015 #177

Why? MellowDem May 2015 #185

I'm sure it does to you. frylock May 2015 #194

It's a straw man... MellowDem May 2015 #202

we have established that, and we're done here. frylock May 2015 #211

If she had said ann--- May 2015 #232

No, they are not. kcr May 2015 #412

You're using the exact same logic... MellowDem May 2015 #431

If someone actually desires to be a target, they don't get to be victims. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #435

Is there any evidence she desired to be a target? MellowDem May 2015 #436

Sure there is. You honestly don't think she chose Garland at random, do you? Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #437

Victims of terror... MellowDem May 2015 #438

No one here is justifying the shootings. No one. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #439

People were blaming her... MellowDem May 2015 #440

Are you aware that it is possible for more than one party to be at blame for a wrong? Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #441

Not when it comes to violence... MellowDem May 2015 #452

But you keep putting the victim label on Geller and she's not a victim. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #498

You don't know that Geller wanted an attack... MellowDem May 2015 #503

The signs are quite obvious. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #507

Whether she wanted an attempt made... MellowDem May 2015 #508

But if her victimhood status is irrelevant, your analogy automatically fails. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #511

Not at all... MellowDem May 2015 #513

You're twisting yourself in knots to try to defend someone not worth defending. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #515

It's not defending Geller's views... MellowDem May 2015 #516

But you are defending her as an innocent "victim" to all of this. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #517

Even if she's not a victim... MellowDem May 2015 #520

That's not all she did. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #522

What you are essentially saying... MellowDem May 2015 #528

But they didn't just attack her. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #529

Other people went there intentionally... MellowDem May 2015 #530

They didn't go there intentionally to want to be injured or killed. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #531

This was free speech... MellowDem May 2015 #532

How does it not matter if I think a person is a bigoted asshole? kcr May 2015 #444

It doesn't matter when it comes to blame... MellowDem May 2015 #453

It's not a trait or characteristic. It's action. kcr May 2015 #455

You said bigoted asshole... MellowDem May 2015 #457

Yes. Deliberate action. kcr May 2015 #458

Not at all... MellowDem May 2015 #466

How does it not matter? kcr May 2015 #468

You can still think she's a piece of shit... MellowDem May 2015 #473

Blaming her for the violence is blaming her for her part in it. kcr May 2015 #476

She had as much of a part in it... MellowDem May 2015 #483

Oh, no. kcr May 2015 #484

What if they were hoping for a violent reaction... MellowDem May 2015 #487

It depends kcr May 2015 #488

Because violence is never an excuse... MellowDem May 2015 #490

Really? Have to strongly disagree there. kcr May 2015 #491

Against nonviolent expression? MellowDem May 2015 #492

They aren't only lending her credence, they were promoting this idea before cbayer May 2015 #159

and now they're parsing her remarks and saying that's not what she meant frylock May 2015 #165

I just read an article on Breitbart that could have been written from material on DU cbayer May 2015 #169

I'm with you 200% ann--- May 2015 #213

People outside the event were victimized. Was Geller even there? randome May 2015 #131

I'm not sure if she was... MellowDem May 2015 #142

Well, Geller's the one equating what happened to rape. randome May 2015 #176

She comparing the logic that blames.. MellowDem May 2015 #182

Violence is always the ann--- May 2015 #140

Blaming Geller for the violence... MellowDem May 2015 #147

I did not blame Geller for the violence committed by the shooters ann--- May 2015 #217

This is like the paperboy who used to tease the neighbors dog. gordianot May 2015 #179

There's a problem with the analogy... MellowDem May 2015 #188

So was the dog he did not try to bite me. gordianot May 2015 #201

Animals aren't responsible for their actions... MellowDem May 2015 #209

I tend to agree the owner is at fault. gordianot May 2015 #228

excuse number 37: muslims have no self control. Warren Stupidity May 2015 #215

Sharks, dogs, hornets.. muslims.. X_Digger May 2015 #388

Metaphors are lost on the weak, obviously. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #401

Metaphors that have inconvenient associations fly right past some, apparently. X_Digger May 2015 #461

What you'd be talking about is an analogy. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #496

An inherent danger because they deal with non-thinking animals. Fucking duh. X_Digger May 2015 #518

You know, I tried. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #521

"--Muslims, sharks, aliens, whatever--" -- and you double down. Priceless. X_Digger May 2015 #523

Do you get it? Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #524

Yes, comparing an act that provokes a thoughtless creature to an act that offends a person. X_Digger May 2015 #526

So yeah, you're deliberately being obtuse. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #527

And cute post 70. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #189

Pam Geller is not pretty Omaha Steve May 2015 #134

No, she is a hatemonger that got exactly what she wa hoping to get LondonReign2 May 2015 #148

Intent matters. Mz Pip May 2015 #157

I think there's a difference treestar May 2015 #166

A few years ago, a group affiliated with Stormfront murielm99 May 2015 #219

More like "drunk asshole mouthed off and got punched in the face" Scootaloo May 2015 #222

Actually more like a drunk asshole mouthed off and the person next to them gets punched in the face. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #227

this is a far better analogy frylock May 2015 #242

^^^THIS^^^ Tom Ripley May 2015 #339

Well golly gee.... 99Forever May 2015 #230

i hate her but in this very specific instance i dont think she is wrong La Lioness Priyanka May 2015 #236

It's not about justifying shooting people. It's about Pam Geller playing the victim card Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #239

i thought she was making an analogy about the shooting, not her specifically. La Lioness Priyanka May 2015 #240

Amen. 840high May 2015 #253

Except that she's actually an ugly prostitute of hate! ananda May 2015 #238

It's called an analogy. Quantess May 2015 #241

better analogy.. frylock May 2015 #243

Well, you're actually arguing it's a metaphor. The problem is.... Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #244

For what? A Mohammed coloring contest? Quantess May 2015 #260

Yes, it's ridiculous that it provoked people to violence, but Geller knew that it would.... Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #262

So it's all about her, then. All about the coloring contest. Quantess May 2015 #274

I never said it was all about her. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #285

But it really is all about her, all about the coloring contest. Quantess May 2015 #300

Is it that crazy to say that they are both wrong? Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #307

One party is lopsidedly more wrong here, and I hope we can agree on which. Quantess May 2015 #311

Why does this have to be a contest? cbayer May 2015 #316

"Coloring contest", as in, who can depict the best/worst Mohammed. (no text) Quantess May 2015 #325

I fear you missed my point. I was talking about the percent of responsibility contest (nt) cbayer May 2015 #334

You're not reading what I'm writing. I'm saying they are both in the wrong. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #398

........ Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #250

A whole hell of a lot of people thought what Martin Luther King said was offensive. trotsky May 2015 #257

You know..........Why the hell not? Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #258

I don't think MLK and Geller are a thing alike. trotsky May 2015 #261

King didn't want violence. Geller did. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #264

How do you know that? trotsky May 2015 #266

How do I know what? Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #267

How do you know Geller wanted violence? trotsky May 2015 #275

Geller specifically chose Garland as the venue for the event. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #278

And MLK spoke throughout the racist South. trotsky May 2015 #282

It's an extremely shitty comparision to begin with. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #287

I agree that one person is admirable and the other is despicable, and have not insisted otherwise. trotsky May 2015 #289

It depends on the ultimate goal. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #292

Who gets to determine how noble the goal is? trotsky May 2015 #297

Humanity will. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #306

It must be super cool to read so deeply into the hearts and minds of people like they can. PeaceNikki May 2015 #317

No kidding! trotsky May 2015 #397

If you want to be the one to go to bat for Pam Geller here, hey, be my guest. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #400

blather, blather, blather, blather PeaceNikki May 2015 #403

Well, clearly you felt the need to respond to me. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #404

lol, you never answered the question I asked you first. PeaceNikki May 2015 #405

I actually asked you my question before that, but hey, I'm a nice guy so I'll indulge. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #407

heh. speaking of blathering... PeaceNikki May 2015 #428

Lovely. Very lovely. So your inability to answer my question either means.... Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #430

Lol! rug May 2015 #314

She has gotten what she wants twice; violence and attention. I'm going to do what I do liberal_at_heart May 2015 #259

Geller doesn't realize that she is also a savage Renew Deal May 2015 #277

i hate the atlast shrugs stuff, but geller may have saved lives samsingh May 2015 #280

Hey, hold on there while I get you some pom-poms for Pamela Geller. cbayer May 2015 #294

Yes. I mean, she'd be just as much a hero if 20 other innocent people died in the attack, right? Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #309

How caste-like of you. In reality, people can and do change. closeupready May 2015 #445

the obvious fact is that this guy didn't samsingh May 2015 #447

I have no words Blue_In_AK May 2015 #281

But she's a hero!! Just see the post above you. cbayer May 2015 #295

Right. Blue_In_AK May 2015 #324

I hope you know that I was being sarcastic. cbayer May 2015 #327

Oh, of course. Blue_In_AK May 2015 #335

You had it handed to you LeftOfWest May 2015 #396

I have no idea what she means, all I know is she is an asshole for trying to get people killed. Rex May 2015 #365

Ugly is as ugly does... MineralMan May 2015 #368

I think we should be a little bit concerned for Ms. Geller Jack Rabbit May 2015 #378

Geller demonstrates the limits of poor analogy. lovemydog May 2015 #385

No, dear; he didn't say that at all jmowreader May 2015 #395

all these people here heaven05 May 2015 #420

LOL - some DUers had the same sickening meme Skittles May 2015 #448

I won't get into whether she's responsible or not...but her anology is incorrect joeybee12 May 2015 #449

That's what someone right here on DU wrote in response to a post of mine, RandySF May 2015 #493

This message was self-deleted by its author RandySF May 2015 #495

First of all, there was no excuse for the violence LeftishBrit May 2015 #504

I'm saying she lured two men to their deaths and gloats about it. nt Hekate May 2015 #512

Hekate, I usually like your posts, but that is horseshit Ex Lurker May 2015 #534

Actually, she did say she want to lure them to violence. Tommy_Carcetti May 2015 #535

Geller is an idiot. bobjacksonk2832 May 2015 #525