General Discussion

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)

17. In so doing, he would alienate true progressives, who value the whole Bill of Rights.

Thu May 7, 2015, 02:30 PM

May 2015

Gun control is a losing issue.

Your statistics include suicides. While any suicide is a tragedy, is the gun really to blame? A tall building, an oncoming train, piped car exhaust, or a tank of nitrogen could just as easily be employed toward the same end.

We already have more than 20,000 gun laws on the books at various local, state, and federal levels. Is that not control? What level of control would you deem sufficient? How many more laws would make you happy?

The Bill of Rights is pretty clear about the "right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Yet you want a Democratic candidate to call for further infringements. This will alienate voters who value and respect the Bill of Rights as a cornerstone of our government. Many of us are Bernie fans because he generally shares this respect, although (on-edit) I see down-thread that he voted in favor of an Assault Weapons Ban, which is a pointless gun control measure that I disagree with entirely.

We have a gun control proponent candidate in Hillary. Aren't you in her Third Way camp anyway? Why are you proposing to give (bad) advice to Bernie?

-app

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Bernie needs to see the light when it comes to gun control. It's our job to educate him on the facts [View all] Cali_Democrat May 2015 OP

This thread isn't going to end well derby378 May 2015 #1

What's wrong with getting Bernie to become a more forceful advocate for gun control? Cali_Democrat May 2015 #3

Would you be satisfied if he agreed to support the party platform on guns? nt hack89 May 2015 #14

In so doing, he would alienate true progressives, who value the whole Bill of Rights. appal_jack May 2015 #17

Alienate true progressives? iandhr May 2015 #35

Yes, that was my point. nt appal_jack May 2015 #36

"alienate true progressives" kinda like what the OP is trying to do? L0oniX May 2015 #59

Getting Sanders to become a more forceful advocate for gun control alienates true progressives? Cali_Democrat May 2015 #64

I don't think gun control is progressive, it's in the tradition of prohibitionism... Eleanors38 May 2015 #76

What about the 'prohibition' against owning machine guns? Trajan May 2015 #101

The only prohibition against owning machine guns is at the state level DonP May 2015 #112

Well ... then those laws are certainly anti-progressive, right? Trajan May 2015 #138

Spending 3 minutes finding actual facts make you look slightly less dumb DonP May 2015 #140

Machine guns/full-auto guns are not prohibited. Eleanors38 May 2015 #143

+1000 nt Mojorabbit May 2015 #117

I'm pretty sure the word regulate is in the 2nd amendment. n/t Exilednight May 2015 #80

And it pertains to what? Militias! appal_jack May 2015 #122

using that logic, I can own Exilednight May 2015 #129

You know, before I posted, I had the beginning of a sentence typed against this canard... appal_jack May 2015 #133

One man can operate a Exilednight May 2015 #134

I'll go-in on a group buy if you sue to make it legal and then organize it! nt appal_jack May 2015 #137

LOSER issue. bvar22 May 2015 #20

What exactly is his position and how does it compare to Hillary Clinton's? pnwmom May 2015 #102

It's a significant issue but far from the only issue. MineralMan May 2015 #2

Seriously HERVEPA May 2015 #4

I had a conversation with some co-workers about this... Cali_Democrat May 2015 #5

Bernie has been a politician for a long time, including a mayor. HERVEPA May 2015 #10

I'm somewhat amused by the notion SickOfTheOnePct May 2015 #6

"It could be that he completely understands and still just doesn't agree with you." friendly_iconoclast May 2015 #142

I thought Bernie was all for letting each state handle their own specific gun laws. Hiraeth May 2015 #145

I am not a one issue voter. HappyMe May 2015 #7

I think he understands. boston bean May 2015 #8

Much closer to a Democrat than Hillary has ever been. Dawgs May 2015 #15

I don't agree that Hillary is less of a democrat. boston bean May 2015 #21

You make a good point. The definition of Democrat seems to have changed since the DLC became rhett o rick May 2015 #37

Then you either don't know Bernie or you don't know the history of the Democratic party. Dawgs May 2015 #40

Really. My choice in democratic politics boston bean May 2015 #45

I went looking to see if he had any statements on gun violence other than a pro gun voting record Agnosticsherbet May 2015 #9

+100000000000000. ^THIS^ misterhighwasted May 2015 #12

It's a deal breaker for me Brainstormy May 2015 #19

Same here. Thanks DU for enlightening us. misterhighwasted May 2015 #27

One shouldn't be pro gun lobby either, imho. boston bean May 2015 #43

Yes we did. misterhighwasted May 2015 #49

Should Ford be sued if a drunk driver kills someone while driving an F150? jeff47 May 2015 #54

Do you think gun manufacturers need special immunity from prosecution? DanTex May 2015 #71

It's not prosecution. It's a civil suit. jeff47 May 2015 #78

Good point. Do you think they need special civil immunity? It looks like you do! DanTex May 2015 #83

Apparently, you think bankrupting victims of gun violence is a good idea. jeff47 May 2015 #90

That is an insane argument. Literally you want to "protect" people by denying them access DanTex May 2015 #95

Do you want a Special Exception made for plaintiff lawyers? That's what the law prevents. Eleanors38 May 2015 #86

Umm, what? The law doesn't "prevent" a "special exemption". It creates one. DanTex May 2015 #89

Sorry, dead wrong. Read the court cases & rulings Before the law. nt Eleanors38 May 2015 #100

LOL. You've been to the NRA's legal library have you? DanTex May 2015 #104

Ah, back to the labels & tags. Read the history and the rulings... Eleanors38 May 2015 #147

Not great special immunity sarisataka May 2015 #110

OK, so you think they need "ungreat" special immunity? DanTex May 2015 #111

I would support limited immunity sarisataka May 2015 #113

At least making a general law that isn't specific to the gun industry would be less obviously wrong. DanTex May 2015 #116

I'm not sure on Bernie yet sarisataka May 2015 #118

Does Ford have a car called cop killer? n/t Exilednight May 2015 #135

The Police Interceptor was discontinued. (nt) jeff47 May 2015 #136

He joined 69 Democrats in the House in voting against the Brady Bill. NYC_SKP May 2015 #65

He does support gun control. Sanders Votes for Background Checks, Assault Weapons Ban Cheese Sandwich May 2015 #11

Why is this a smear! I align with many many American voters who want misterhighwasted May 2015 #18

OK but Bernie voted for expanded background checks, and the assault weapons ban Cheese Sandwich May 2015 #25

LOL..A Bernie supporter on DU pointed out that Bernie didn't need to evolve. misterhighwasted May 2015 #31

What should he say when you tell him that aproximately 922780 of those deaths are self inflicted? beevul May 2015 #13

Bernie voted for universal background checks after Sandy Hook. aikoaiko May 2015 #16

6 out of ten gun deaths are suicides cali May 2015 #22

Great to see you realize that not only American lives have value. DanTex May 2015 #77

Of "education" on gun issues, the special exception sought by banners is a worthy start... Eleanors38 May 2015 #85

But the Japanese do find a way, sans guns. Eleanors38 May 2015 #88

He is a politician who knows his base. NCTraveler May 2015 #23

It's a tertiary issue at best.. Oktober May 2015 #24

I heard his answer last night - he is aware of the fact that up until now he represented the state jwirr May 2015 #26

I watched that too and I'm comfortable with what he said. nt Snotcicles May 2015 #28

+1 deutsey May 2015 #30

That is an excellent answer BrotherIvan May 2015 #34

It was on MSNBC last night but I don't remember which of the programs. jwirr May 2015 #50

Chris Hayes had him on; I saw it and he did say that. Nn/t ms liberty May 2015 #125

What sick narcissism allows Americans to only ever count American deaths? whatchamacallit May 2015 #29

Counting numbers of Americans killed in American wars NuclearDem May 2015 #41

If the point of the stats is to prove American gun violence whatchamacallit May 2015 #55

No, it's to illustrate how gun violence in this country over only 50 years NuclearDem May 2015 #72

Context whatchamacallit May 2015 #81

No, it's not. NuclearDem May 2015 #98

We're talking American politics so yes the poster is correct yeoman6987 May 2015 #61

Pointless distinction whatchamacallit May 2015 #66

What do we need to teach him? arcane1 May 2015 #32

his record is mixed because his votes are nuanced. magical thyme May 2015 #33

That's rather presumptuous. What if he honestly disagrees with you on the issue? Throd May 2015 #38

Which candidate has to evolve toward the others positions? AgingAmerican May 2015 #39

"More Americans have died from guns since 1968 than all wars COMBINED" AgingAmerican May 2015 #42

"Americans" Cali_Democrat May 2015 #48

Huh, what? AgingAmerican May 2015 #51

You're welcome, buddy. nt Cali_Democrat May 2015 #52

a good bet would be that a good portion of the 16M figure boston bean May 2015 #53

Actually, no. Disease killed more than guns or bombs. (nt) jeff47 May 2015 #56

Thanks for the info. boston bean May 2015 #57

That was the case in the Spanish-American War, and perhaps WWI. Eleanors38 May 2015 #91

Basically, all of the wars involving the US until WWII. jeff47 May 2015 #92

What huh? AgingAmerican May 2015 #60

No. boston bean May 2015 #62

I thought this is an interesting fact. The statistics on gun deaths was from 1968. Thinkingabout May 2015 #84

Since that time, gun deaths have gone down; while population has gone up. Eleanors38 May 2015 #93

It is too many deaths by guns. Are you thinking gun deaths isxa population control? Thinkingabout May 2015 #94

Gosh, I think fewer gun deaths would be a good thing. Sheesh... Eleanors38 May 2015 #99

Sanders is NOT against gun control or... Whiskeytide May 2015 #44

Re: confusing foreign aid amendment that Sanders, Kerry, Klobuchar, Feingold, et al, voted Yes on: NYC_SKP May 2015 #63

You realize the bulk of those deaths before WWII were due to infectious diseases, right? (nt) jeff47 May 2015 #46

No. People need to be calm and read up on what he actually voted for and against. NYC_SKP May 2015 #47

The NRA gives him an "F". It doesn't get lower than that ...but enjoy the ranting. L0oniX May 2015 #58

Not sure we should be using the NRA rating as a guide. yellowcanine May 2015 #67

Is it lower than being a war hawk? L0oniX May 2015 #70

Not the question, is it now? Nice diversion from the topic at hand though. yellowcanine May 2015 #73

Total deaths... including suicides? LittleBlue May 2015 #68

I think Bernie Sanders has probably seen what passes for "edumacation" on this... Eleanors38 May 2015 #69

To the OP can you show where gun laws WDIM May 2015 #74

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2015 #107

The UK and Australia. NuclearDem May 2015 #109

If I accidentally eat a product containing peanut I guess I should sue every peanut farmer that Autumn May 2015 #75

The cult of personality thing is going on here Cali_Democrat May 2015 #82

I don't see that but I don't know who or what gunners are, I have those groups trashed. Autumn May 2015 #96

"Cult of personality?" Never met the guy. I like Warren, too. But her gun record is not good... Eleanors38 May 2015 #97

Uh, no. That's not what the lawsuits against manufacturers were about. NuclearDem May 2015 #108

Maybe He Knows HassleCat May 2015 #79

After Heller, is there must legislating that can be done on gun control? CanadaexPat May 2015 #87

Not at all sarisataka May 2015 #103

Thanks. CanadaexPat May 2015 #115

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2015 #106

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2015 #105

He's got a tough enough row to hoe as it is. PeteSelman May 2015 #114

National Interest Koinos May 2015 #119

The Green Party Koinos May 2015 #120

Thank you, Koinos! Cali_Democrat May 2015 #121

You're Welcome! Koinos May 2015 #124

And it's my time to tell you rule by Goldman Sachs has to end now. mmonk May 2015 #123

I like your sig line. Robert Kennedy was quite special. Koinos May 2015 #127

People can evolve etherealtruth May 2015 #126

John Dewey Koinos May 2015 #128

Another U of M Alum ... etherealtruth May 2015 #130

Thank you for the kind welcome. Koinos May 2015 #131

Education requires knowledge above emotion seveneyes May 2015 #132

Bernie needs to see the light, Bernie needs to be educated. GGJohn May 2015 #139

Got to love that talk. Puzzledtraveller May 2015 #146

Agreed, but I also think suing gun manufacturers is weird and inappropriate. Bonobo May 2015 #141

I think Bernie knows more than I do. Puzzledtraveller May 2015 #144

The issue isn't insignificant. But it's mostly an issue for Congress. True Blue Door May 2015 #148